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sec143dmf
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43 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

I thought you were joking about Woody's business acumen, but I think you're serious. 

Woody was outmaneuvered by Jame freekin Dolan. Think about that for a second.

After Woody outmaneuvered Dolan to get the team in the first place, to then see it appreciate in value while throwing off a handsome dividend every year (plus these guys love to have expensive toys). So Dolan was probably was pretty sour about that, in addition to not wanting to lose concert $ to a WSS.

I don't know how much Woody lost money-wise in the end, partnering with the Giants for this ugly stadium to absorb half the cost (in addition to whatever they got indirectly from NJ). By the time the WSS finished I can't imagine what the final cost would've been; it's never in line with the original estimates in this part of the country.

Oh and also Dolan is pure evil, as is/was his partner in crime Shelly Silver, and it's hardly difficult for two people so well-connected in that city to mobilize objection to and undo plans for any major construction job. In hindsight, Woody didn't stand a chance, despite spending some $75MM in marketing & lobbying to further his cause. But also Dolan did allegedly outbid Woody for the rail yards when the MTA initially proclaimed Woody the winner.

Shame; like many others, I'd probably have gone to a lot more games if I could just get off a major train line and I'm there. Plus the initial mockups looked pretty cool. Much better than this thing. Of course the Jets probably still would've sucked, so there's that.

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5 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Imagine if you had 50K dressed as tigers at MetLife?  Growling every time the Bengals scored?  LOL!   What a mind f*ck that would be.

Hell yeah, throwing Frosted Flakes into the air to celebrate every score, hmmmmm, how much are tickets now? 

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4 hours ago, sec143dmf said:

I’m done.  Surprised I was able to get a refund for games not attended yet this year but I was. Hurts to walk away from 15k spent on psl fees but it’s best to cut my loses now. Plus if I ever wanted to attend a game it will be cheaper to buy on the secondary market. I’ve bought many dumb things in my life but jets season tickets and psl’s are high on my list.  I literally sold my seats for $40 a piece for Sunday and the seats cost me $150 each. Done throwing my money away on this team. 

Congrats.  Bye!  You might feel pretty dumb in the next couple of years.

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12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

After Woody outmaneuvered Dolan to get the team in the first place, to then see it appreciate in value while throwing off a handsome dividend every year (plus these guys love to have expensive toys). So Dolan was probably was pretty sour about that, in addition to not wanting to lose concert $ to a WSS.

I don't know how much Woody lost money-wise in the end, partnering with the Giants for this ugly stadium to absorb half the cost (in addition to whatever they got indirectly from NJ). By the time the WSS finished I can't imagine what the final cost would've been; it's never in line with the original estimates in this part of the country.

Oh and also Dolan is pure evil, as is/was his partner in crime Shelly Silver, and it's hardly difficult for two people so well-connected in that city to mobilize objection to and undo plans for any major construction job. But also Dolan did allegedly outbid Woody for the rail yards when the MTA initially proclaimed Woody the winner.

Shame; like many others, I'd probably have gone to a lot more games if I could just get off a major train line and I'm there. Plus the initial mockups looked pretty cool. Much better than this thing. Of course the Jets probably still would've sucked, so there's that.

Woody didn't outmaneuver Dolan to get the team. 1. He outbid him. 2. Owner approval would be a breeze for Woody, not so much for Dolan. 

If you had enough money to buy any NFL franchise in 1999, your appreciation would be astronomical. 

That said, the difference in franchise value between owning 100% of a Stadium on the Westside of Manhattan vs 50% of a stadium in the swamps of Jersey - is quite significant. 

It's not about money lost as much as it wealth not realized. 

Anyway, it's a gd shame. Would have been great.

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4 hours ago, sec143dmf said:

I’m done.  Surprised I was able to get a refund for games not attended yet this year but I was. Hurts to walk away from 15k spent on psl fees but it’s best to cut my loses now. Plus if I ever wanted to attend a game it will be cheaper to buy on the secondary market. I’ve bought many dumb things in my life but jets season tickets and psl’s are high on my list.  I literally sold my seats for $40 a piece for Sunday and the seats cost me $150 each. Done throwing my money away on this team. 

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10 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

So, next week I'm going to Indianapolis.  In all likelihood, it'll be the last game I watch this season.

Not gone forever, but the only thing interesting in this season could have been the development of Wilson.  Sadly, he sucks and is (as predicted) so obviously not ready.  Not quitting and will still follow, but no chance I can justify 3 hours on a Sunday to be made unhappy.

Ive been in that mode more or less for 2-3 years.  I have a tee time every Sunday, finish around 3 and NEVER even concern myself about the game.  This organization is doomed. 

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7 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

Woody didn't outmaneuver Dolan to get the team. 1. He outbid him. 2. Owner approval would be a breeze for Woody, not so much for Dolan. 

If you had enough money to buy any NFL franchise in 1999, your appreciation would be astronomical. 

That said, the difference in franchise value between owning 100% of a Stadium on the Westside of Manhattan vs 50% of a stadium in the swamps of Jersey - is quite significant. 

It's not about money lost as much as it wealth not realized. 

Anyway, it's a gd shame. Would have been great.

Well he outbid him because Dolan didn't think the team would appreciate so much so quickly. As it was they were both allegedly bidding more than twice what the franchise was worth.

But...

Never mind the appreciation is more than people realize (other meaning of realize). Woody may have won with a $632MM bid but that doesn't mean he liquidated $632MM in assets to write a check to the Hess family for that amount. Part or most of it was surely leveraged against other assets he had, in case he defaulted (which he didn't), in the form of loans that cost far less in interest than his capital gain (unrealized as it may be on paper). Most of the appreciation is unrealized, in that the team hasn't been sold yet, but it could be - and probably has been - leveraged to fund other things (which is what Bit never understood through his years of absurdly suggesting either/both Johnsons are somehow cash poor). 

His ROI is little like a mortgage. If I put down $20K on a $100K home (just for easy math), and 10 years later a home's value has doubled to $200K, I didn't 2x up my money; my initial investment went up 10x, minus the carrying costs over that decade. But where it differs greatly is that, in Woody's case, the carrying costs are less than nothing, since unlike a home, an NFL franchise throws off a pretty nice profit each year. Never mind that the amounts for an NFL franchise are orders of magnitude more than a typical family home, and the different world these guys live in. So anyway his investment didn't go up 6-fold from $600MM to $4BN, if that's its current value; if he only put up $100-200MM of cash and the rest was leveraged, then his initial investment went up closer to 20-40x while he paid off the leveraged amount with annual profit. 

Don't cry for him lol. He lost the stadium but overall between the two Johnson/Dolan battles Woody's on top. 

And yes, it is a gd shame. 

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1 hour ago, doitny said:

im confused.

did you give them up forever? or just this season or just Sunday?

im glad your happy. good for you. and  this is not to attack you in any way but if people thinks this hurts Woody it wont. there got to be tons of people on the list waiting to get season tickets.

I didn’t do it to hurt woody. I’m done for good. In the end I lose the 15k I spent on the psl but I am still better off 

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Not that I have any right to tell people what to do with their money, but I would love to see ticket holders eat the money, don't go to the game, and have the stadium just be empty as a sign of protest. 

I would just love the visual of an empty stadium with maybe just Woody and Chris sitting in the owners suite, with the announcers trying to explain why nobody is there. Just for one game. 

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52 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

So, next week I'm going to Indianapolis.  In all likelihood, it'll be the last game I watch this season.

Not gone forever, but the only thing interesting in this season could have been the development of Wilson.  Sadly, he sucks and is (as predicted) so obviously not ready.  Not quitting and will still follow, but no chance I can justify 3 hours on a Sunday to be made unhappy.

Hope you enjoy Indy.  I live a few hours away.  I have always enjoyed the stadium, the City and I have had a blast with Colts fans -- they have always been very friendly and welcoming.  Even when we beat them  in the playoffs.  Have had a lot of fun whenever I have made the 3 hour drive.  But I just couldn't justify the expense and the two days I would have had to take off work for a Thursday Night game.  Cancelled my hotel the other day.

Hope you can find a way to have a good evening -- even if the football is likely to suck.

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16 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Not that I have any right to tell people what to do with their money, but I would love to see ticket holders eat the money, don't go to the game, and have the stadium just be empty as a sign of protest. 

I would just love the visual of an empty stadium with maybe just Woody and Chris sitting in the owners suite, with the announcers trying to explain why nobody is there. Just for one game. 

Easily explained away as Pandemoween. 

Better to choose the next home game and have a coordinated display of displeasure. A stadium of Jets fans turning their backs during the entire Jets first drive would be a helluva message that could not be explained away.

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40 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Ive been in that mode more or less for 2-3 years.  I have a tee time every Sunday, finish around 3 and NEVER even concern myself about the game.  This organization is doomed. 

I was at the titans game, and it was a ton of fun.  I'll have fun at Indianapolis because it's a road trip with my father, and I believe the 11th year (last year was the the first miss, for obvious reasons), but if it weren't for that trip, I'd be out already.

There just isn't anything fun about this team.

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At the beginning of the season, I wasn't looking through "green colored glasses" on what the team record would be.  I picked them (because of all the FNG's) to win maybe 4-5 games.  I don't think now if they'll reach those wins.  What bothers me most is how they look losing...they're a non-competitive group...and that falls on everyone.  So, if you're a PSL holder, I don't blame you at all for cashing in your chips.  They should have a lemon law for fans that invest in a bad product and this is a very bad product.

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32 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well he outbid him because Dolan didn't think the team would appreciate so much so quickly. As it was they were both allegedly bidding more than twice what the franchise was worth.

But...

Never mind the appreciation is more than people realize (other meaning of realize). Woody may have won with a $632MM bid but that doesn't mean he liquidated $632MM in assets to write a check to the Hess family for that amount. Part or most of it was surely leveraged against other assets he had, in case he defaulted (which he didn't), in the form of loans that cost far less in interest than his capital gain (unrealized as it may be on paper). Most of the appreciation is unrealized, in that the team hasn't been sold yet, but it could be - and probably has been - leveraged to fund other things (which is what Bit never understood through his years of absurdly suggesting either/both Johnsons are somehow cash poor). 

His ROI is little like a mortgage. If I put down $20K on a $100K home (just for easy math), and 10 years later a home's value has doubled to $200K, I didn't 2x up my money; my initial investment went up 10x, minus the carrying costs over that decade. But where it differs greatly is that, in Woody's case, the carrying costs are less than nothing, since unlike a home, an NFL franchise throws off a pretty nice profit each year. Never mind that the amounts for an NFL franchise are orders of magnitude more than a typical family home, and the different world these guys live in. So anyway his investment didn't go up 6-fold from $600MM to $4BN, if that's its current value; if he only put up $100-200MM of cash and the rest was leveraged, then his initial investment went up closer to 20-40x while he paid off the leveraged amount with annual profit. 

Don't cry for him lol. He lost the stadium but overall between the two Johnson/Dolan battles Woody's on top. 

And yes, it is a gd shame. 

I think it's safe to say that both made out well enough. Dolan protected his turf by bribing the people he needed to, kept his tax free deal and took MSG public. Dolan must be ridiculously liquid. Woody's assets are not. I don't know who won, I just know that New York lost - Jets fans especially so.

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5 minutes ago, Lith said:

Hope you enjoy Indy.  I live a few hours away.  I have always enjoyed the stadium, the City and I have had a blast with Colts fans -- they have always been very friendly and welcoming.  Even when we beat them  in the playoffs.  Have had a lot of fun whenever I have made the 3 hour drive.  But I just couldn't justify the expense and the two days I would have had to take off work for a Thursday Night game.  Cancelled my hotel the other day.

Hope you can find a way to have a good evening -- even if the football is likely to suck.

Like I said to southpark, I've been doing this for a decade.  The game is secondary.  When I started doing these trips with my dad I was single and had darker and more hair.  Now I'm married with two kids.  We'll sit in a stadium for a few hours and complain about the Jets, but otherwise, just take the time to reflect on life, as we always do.  We'll also share a cheat meal (both on statins) at St. Elmo's.

I understand not spending the money on the team, but that's sort of the least of where the money is going.  Any other recommendations while I'm there?

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47 minutes ago, Trotter said:

I am 62. What is venmo

Android = where the cool kids go because iPhone is for their parents and Nokia is for their grandparents.

TikTok = where the cool kids go because Instagram is for their parents and Facebook is for their grandparents.

Venmo = where the cool kids go because PayPal is for their parents and Zelle is for their grandparents.

[This post is for educational purposes only; deriving any entertainment value from it is strictly prohibited]

SAR I

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5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Android = where the cool kids go because iPhone is for their parents and Nokia is for their grandparents.

TikTok = where the cool kids go because Instagram is for their parents and Facebook is for their grandparents.

Venmo = where the cool kids go because PayPal is for their parents and Zelle is for their grandparents.

[This post is for educational purposes only; do not derive any entertainment from it]

SAR I

Much appreciated - is cash valid anymore or is that only for old people 

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Have been thinking about doing same.  The experience is so awful.  Traffic, crap stadium, mobile ticketing that my friends always screw up, an inept team, and did i mention traffic?  Have 4 seats and by the time the Jets get to their third home game in November (since the NFL gives Pats all the early home games to make sure they get off to a good start) I can barely give them away.  Almost embarrassed to offer they are such a joke, feel like I should give friends/employees the seats, the park pass, and $100 to cover the grief.  Only thing that stops me is the sure fire promise that the year I give them up will be the year we have our first home game in 20+ years which is hard to fathom but will definitely occur. 

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11 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Like I said to southpark, I've been doing this for a decade.  The game is secondary.  When I started doing these trips with my dad I was single and had darker and more hair.  Now I'm married with two kids.  We'll sit in a stadium for a few hours and complain about the Jets, but otherwise, just take the time to reflect on life, as we always do.  We'll also share a cheat meal (both on statins) at St. Elmo's.

I understand not spending the money on the team, but that's sort of the least of where the money is going.  Any other recommendations while I'm there?

Well said.  That is exactly the reason why I am going to Houston at the end of November and there is no way I am going to cancel that one.  Weekend with my son -- he is now married, with one kid.  We have done the one trip a year thing ever since he went off to college about 10 years ago.  He lives out of state, so we don't get to spend as much time togethr as I would like.  I am really looking forward to that one, and it is definitely the idea of spending couple of days, just me and him, that I am going to enjoy regardless of what happens on the field.

As fior Indy -- there are a ton of bars/restaurants within walking distance of the stadium.  If you are planning to hit St Elmo's while you are there, you are going to the right place.

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51 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Not that I have any right to tell people what to do with their money, but I would love to see ticket holders eat the money, don't go to the game, and have the stadium just be empty as a sign of protest. 

I would just love the visual of an empty stadium with maybe just Woody and Chris sitting in the owners suite, with the announcers trying to explain why nobody is there. Just for one game. 

Does Chris still go to games?  I thought he went back to playing tennis on Sundays like he did before he became CEO of the Jets. 

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34 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I was at the titans game, and it was a ton of fun.  I'll have fun at Indianapolis because it's a road trip with my father, and I believe the 11th year (last year was the the first miss, for obvious reasons), but if it weren't for that trip, I'd be out already.

There just isn't anything fun about this team.

Agreed. I went to opening day here in Charlotte, parties hard with 100's of fans. Each year, a bunch of us go to a road game.  But short of that.....  I don't want Woody getting a red cent of my time or money.

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12 minutes ago, Lith said:

Well said.  That is exactly the reason why I am going to Houston at the end of November and there is no way I am going to cancel that one.  Weekend with my son -- he is now married, with one kid.  We have done the one trip a year thing ever since he went off to college about 10 years ago.  He lives out of state, so we don't get to spend as much time togethr as I would like.  I am really looking forward to that one, and it is definitely the idea of spending couple of days, just me and him, that I am going to enjoy regardless of what happens on the field.

As fior Indy -- there are a ton of bars/restaurants within walking distance of the stadium.  If you are planning to hit St Elmo's while you are there, you are going to the right place.

So we usually do one road game a year. Was looking up Houston? Guess plane tickets are extra due to Thanksgiving weekend

May do Dolphins away in December. Escape the cold a few days

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21 minutes ago, Trotter said:

Much appreciated - is cash valid anymore or is that only for old people 

5028800cv12d.jpg

Cash is over.  So are plastic credit cards.   Every hot dog vendor in Central Park takes Square.   

You enter your credit card into your smartphone's wallet and then when you're buying something you just hover over the little hockey puck reader, you hear a 'ding', and the payment is made through your credit card company, hands-free, touch-free, no cash, no physical credit card needed.

SAR I

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