GVR was the best this GM could do

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

Hmm actually no. Alex Lewis was on the chopping block because he lost his job to the Pat Elflein, who Douglas decided to not resign. Alex Lewis was never meant to be a starter in 2021. Cameron Clark, who I hope recovers nicely and has a happy life, was invisible during the entire 2020 year and was not expected to be a starter at all. Douglas brought the tragedy of a player of Dan Feeney. That was his plan. I don't buy this idea that there were these other great options that unfortunately disappeared. Joe Douglas  mismanaged the oline as a whole. He just so happened to come across Moses late in the offseason. Otherwise....

Alex Lewis got injured, then had a mental breakdown and then JD picked up Elflein off the streets. 

They restructured Lewis in the offseason to keep him and the expectation was that he’d compete with GVR for the RG spot. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Was he this bad last year? I knew he wasn’t great but thought he’d at least be adequate till replaced. 

[Green hat]

1 hour ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

Just because McGovern is better than a practice squad level talent player it doesnt mean that Douglas did enough to protect and help his franchise QB. 

He's not great, but might look better with a competent RG. Kind of hard to evaluate with the current situation. 

[Maynard13]

4 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Nothing we already don’t know, but this is message board so let’s start a thread about it, 

Ban him for a week or blackmail him for Burger King coupons ?

[AFJF]

4 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Was he this bad last year? I knew he wasn’t great but thought he’d at least be adequate till replaced. 

He was this bad for the first few weeks but then leveled off and wasn't great but wasn't terrible.

[Irish Jet]

17 minutes ago, rangerous said:

uh-oh.  too much logic.  but what about freeney?

 

13 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Freeney has to be ridiculously bad since he can’t find the field with only Van Rotten in the way.

So ridiculously bad in pass protection that people see sack master extraordinaire Dwight Freeney when they think of Dan Feeney.

[AFJF]

And the best he could do at ILB was Del'Shawn Phillips who may end up starting this week.  Terrible.

[Sonny Werblin]

4 hours ago, JazzyJet said:

what in our franchises history would make you think that Cameron Clark was actually going to pan out if he didn't get injured? Alex Lewis was a tough pill to swallow, but he should not have been the 1st option either, he's a JAG, JD failed to build a real NFL caliber line. Alex Lewis was more suitable as a depth piece. JD should have shelled out some money for a real starting guard.

Nothing in my post evaluated the players. My only point is that Van Roten was JDs third option. I would have preferred the jets had drafted a RG or a C and moved McGovern to RG.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

18 minutes ago, AFJF said:

And the best he could do at ILB was Del'Shawn Phillips who may end up starting this week.  Terrible.

What about Jarred Davis, Quincy Williams, and the two rooks?

[doitny]

22 minutes ago, AFJF said:

And the best he could do at ILB was Del'Shawn Phillips who may end up starting this week.  Terrible.

he signed Jarred Davis.

[More Cowbell]

5 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This os just so disturbing.  More than GVR.

[ElBarrioJets]

I mean...the plan was clearly to let Clarke run with the job, then he gets a freak neck/back injury, Alex Lewis is off the reservation, and we had to start the season with presumably the guy JD wanted as the backup on a cheap salary. That's a lot of attrition for one position to suffer, especially at RG. 

THAT said, for all of JD's OL bonafides, outside of our 1st rounders like Becton/AJT, Clarke has been JD's only OL swing in the mid-rounds.  That clearly has to change soon, because there's zero pipeline here to build on unless JD makes a big splash in free agency or has to draft OL high again out of pure necessity. 

It's just a glaringly incomplete football team right now. Injuries or not, there's ******* chasms at certain positions because of how strangely this roster has been put together. We're carrying guys like Pinnock, Perine, Jeff Smith, Chuma Edoga (lol), etc. who do nothing and mean nothing for the future of this roster while LB, TE, C/G and S are dumpster fires. 

The sad thing is the one thing I hoped for this year was some semblance of competence and the Jets can't even do that. 

 

[Irish Jet]

4 minutes ago, ElBarrioJets said:

I mean...the plan was clearly to let Clarke run with the job

How exactly was this clear?

[ElBarrioJets]

14 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

How exactly was this clear?

I figure most GMs hope their 4th round picks can start in their 2nd year. And given the complete disinterest in upgrading the guard position this past offseason outside of AJT, it set up a camp battle between Clarke, Lewis, and Van Roten. I sure as hell hoped Clarke would win the job. It obviously went to sh*t really quickly.

It's a weird mix of circumstance and sh*tty roster management. That's actually the theme of this season lol

[Irish Jet]

2 minutes ago, ElBarrioJets said:

I figure most GMs hope their 4th round picks can start in their 2nd year. And given the complete disinterest in upgrading the guard position this past offseason outside of AJT, it set up a camp battle between Clarke, Lewis, and Van Roten. I sure as hell hoped Clarke would win the job. It obviously went to sh*t really quickly.

It's a weird mix of circumstance and sh*tty roster management. That's actually the theme of this season lol

I mean there was even less interest in getting Clark some playing time last year in a dead season - He didn’t see the field. There was zero indication based on camp that he was ever ahead or even competing with GVR. Not sure I heard his name prior to the injuries, he certainly wasn’t working with the starters or that would have been news.

He may just be another washout, lord knows it would be par for the course given where those who went ahead of him are currently. That draft was a debacle.

[Hex]

GVR sucks, but is there really anybody that can replace him currently?

[Guilhermezmc]

Funny thing the JD fans were the same ones banging to keep Sam Darnold

[varjet]

JD needed to pay a premium for a functional G when he realized that Clark and Lewis were not going to work out.  Clark was looking bad before he got hurt-he was not a fit for this offense.  Lewis was more of a fit, but he was not mentally into it. 

He seemed very focused on accumulating DL, to excess in fact.  That was because Saleh and Ulbrich were pushing for it.  Lafleur was clueless and must have not pushed for OL, and this is what we got.

[Jetsfan80]

59 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Funny thing the JD fans were the same ones banging to keep Sam Darnold

Not I.  

[HawkeyeJet]

1 hour ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Funny thing the JD fans were the same ones banging to keep Sam Darnold

Even funnier when you consider there are tons of instances where that was not the case.

[Hex]

20 minutes ago, varjet said:

JD needed to pay a premium for a functional G when he realized that Clark and Lewis were not going to work out.  Clark was looking bad before he got hurt-he was not a fit for this offense.  Lewis was more of a fit, but he was not mentally into it. 

He seemed very focused on accumulating DL, to excess in fact.  That was because Saleh and Ulbrich were pushing for it.  Lafleur was clueless and must have not pushed for OL, and this is what we got.

they're actually gone exploring, no wonder

[Jet_Engine1]

9 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

[xJayce]

6 hours ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

Just because McGovern is better than a practice squad level talent player it doesnt mean that Douglas did enough to protect and help his franchise QB. 

As per WalterFootball (my go to reference), McGovern was the best available C in 2020. In 2021, there was Linsley, but given that McGovern was already signed, not sure trying to outbid the chargers made sense).

https://walterfootball.com/freeagents2020C.php

https://walterfootball.com/freeagents2021C.php

Also invested a couple of 1st round picks, and picked up Moses... Not sure what more someone can do in a 2 year span when there were that many holes to fill. There is not much in regards to talent at the online position that makes it to FA, and they pretty much call the shots as to where they want to go.

[xJayce]

3 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

I mean there was even less interest in getting Clark some playing time last year in a dead season - He didn’t see the field. There was zero indication based on camp that he was ever ahead or even competing with GVR. Not sure I heard his name prior to the injuries, he certainly wasn’t working with the starters or that would have been news.

He may just be another washout, lord knows it would be par for the course given where those who went ahead of him are currently. That draft was a debacle.

There was no interest in getting anyone on the field last year other than Frank Gore. I don't think we can ascertain that a lack of playtime under Gase indicates your level of talent.

To your point though, I hadn't heard his name ever come up either.

[derp]

7 hours ago, Green hat said:

Anyone remember the high quality line that JD inherited in 2019?

LT Kelvin Beachum
LG Alex Lewis
C Jonotthan Harrison
RG Brian Winters
RT Brandon Shell

This line is absolute dog sh--t and needed an upgrade at every position. Actually, this was the case for the whole team outside of a handful of positions.

With 2 off seasons to make changes - the projected OL for 2021:

LT Mekhi Becton (upgrade)
LG Alijah Vera-Tucker (upgrade)
C Connor McGovern (upgrade. Harrison is a practice squad level talent)
RG Greg Van Roten (downgrade, but not by much. Winters was also bad and hasn't played much in years)
RT George Fant / Morgan Moses (upgrade)

Yes it is true, JD failed to upgrade the RG position. But if you go through the entire starting roster position by position, in so many cases we are better off than we were when JD started. For this reason I reserve a glimmer of hope for next year and beyond. 

It really stinks not seeing the results on the field, but I am hoping it can be explained by inexperience and a crazy amount of injuries (once again). I think if you review the entire projected starting roster (without injuries), and compare it to where we were in 2019, you see there IS a plan to improve the team and we should be moving in the right direction. Yes we still have a ways to go. We need to continue adding talent and depth (there was ZERO depth on this roster at the end of 2018), heal up, and our coaching staff needs to improve, and I expect to start seeing the results next year. 

Maybe our coaching staff will not improve. I really can't say if it will or won't. If we have better talent but see the same results next year, then it will be clear the coaching staff needs to go. 

 

For what it’s worth I don’t think Douglas inherited Alex Lewis. Osemele maybe was projected to start. The Jets definitely traded for Lewis after Douglas was hired though.

[rangerous]

11 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

I mean there was even less interest in getting Clark some playing time last year in a dead season - He didn’t see the field. There was zero indication based on camp that he was ever ahead or even competing with GVR. Not sure I heard his name prior to the injuries, he certainly wasn’t working with the starters or that would have been news.

He may just be another washout, lord knows it would be par for the course given where those who went ahead of him are currently. That draft was a debacle.

as i recall clark was only available for a handful of games.  it might've been nice to see what he could do but last season was such a wipe out there's just no telling what the thinking was.  as for clark they used a 4th rounder on him which means they must have seen something that would make him a decent player.  too bad we may never know.

[Green hat]

8 hours ago, derp said:

For what it’s worth I don’t think Douglas inherited Alex Lewis. Osemele maybe was projected to start. The Jets definitely traded for Lewis after Douglas was hired though.

Thanks, good catch. Another roster landmine. Douglas signed Lewis as depth in 2019.

[Sammybighead]

Joe is hellbent on drafting a first round oline per year. So you can expect the online to be decent in 2024.

[Integrity28]

17 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

Which recent liability hated more:

 

GVR

Kyle Wilson

Buster Skrine

Darron Lee 

 

Answer: Jamal Adams

[kevinc855]

2 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

Joe is hellbent on drafting a first round oline per year. So you can expect the online to be decent in 2024.

This checks out....

I been calling it a 8 year rebuild.....people seem to think I kid....

[TheClashFan]

12 hours ago, xJayce said:

As per WalterFootball (my go to reference), McGovern was the best available C in 2020. In 2021, there was Linsley, but given that McGovern was already signed, not sure trying to outbid the chargers made sense).

https://walterfootball.com/freeagents2020C.php

https://walterfootball.com/freeagents2021C.php

Also invested a couple of 1st round picks, and picked up Moses... Not sure what more someone can do in a 2 year span when there were that many holes to fill. There is not much in regards to talent at the online position that makes it to FA, and they pretty much call the shots as to where they want to go.

1. Sign Linsley and move McGovern to RG. Of course, maybe Linsley would have no interested in the Jets, so this is nowhere near a sure thing, but did JD even consider it?  Unknown.  I'd prefer the Jets had already drafted a young C in round 2 or 3 of either of the last two drafts. This year, I pray he takes one early...even in the first round. Try to get the next Mangold.

2. Draft more linemen.  JD has drafted OL in the 1st round two years in a row. Good!  But, he's only drafted one more total in two years. Not good. He needs to be drafting some young, developmental OL.  He's almost sure to draft another OL high in 2022, but he needs to take a couple of mid round guys to to develop for depth.  The Van Rotens, Feeneys and Edogas of the world need to be gone.

Clarke never saw the field last year, so not sure why JD would be assuming that he'd compete for RG this year.  Lewis had apparent mental health issues last year, so no way JD should have been counting on him for anything.  He signed Feeney, who is apparently god awful, as the main backup C and G.

 

  

[section314]

16 hours ago, ElBarrioJets said:

I mean...the plan was clearly to let Clarke run with the job, then he gets a freak neck/back injury, Alex Lewis is off the reservation, and we had to start the season with presumably the guy JD wanted as the backup on a cheap salary. That's a lot of attrition for one position to suffer, especially at RG. 

THAT said, for all of JD's OL bonafides, outside of our 1st rounders like Becton/AJT, Clarke has been JD's only OL swing in the mid-rounds.  That clearly has to change soon, because there's zero pipeline here to build on unless JD makes a big splash in free agency or has to draft OL high again out of pure necessity. 

It's just a glaringly incomplete football team right now. Injuries or not, there's ******* chasms at certain positions because of how strangely this roster has been put together. We're carrying guys like Pinnock, Perine, Jeff Smith, Chuma Edoga (lol), etc. who do nothing and mean nothing for the future of this roster while LB, TE, C/G and S are dumpster fires. 

The sad thing is the one thing I hoped for this year was some semblance of competence and the Jets can't even do that. 

 

That's correct. The line was going to be.....Becton, AVT, McGovern, Clarke and Fant. 

[kevinc855]

Brian Costello called his play out today in the PC. Saleh of course uncomfortably danced around it.
 

Awaiting JDs answer at the mid season pc  

[xJayce]

54 minutes ago, TheClashFan said:

1. Sign Linsley and move McGovern to RG. Of course, maybe Linsley would have no interested in the Jets, so this is nowhere near a sure thing, but did JD even consider it?  Unknown.  I'd prefer the Jets had already drafted a young C in round 2 or 3 of either of the last two drafts. This year, I pray he takes one early...even in the first round. Try to get the next Mangold.

2. Draft more linemen.  JD has drafted OL in the 1st round two years in a row. Good!  But, he's only drafted one more total in two years. Not good. He needs to be drafting some young, developmental OL.  He's almost sure to draft another OL high in 2022, but he needs to take a couple of mid round guys to to develop for depth.  The Van Rotens, Feeneys and Edogas of the world need to be gone.

Clarke never saw the field last year, so not sure why JD would be assuming that he'd compete for RG this year.  Lewis had apparent mental health issues last year, so no way JD should have been counting on him for anything.  He signed Feeney, who is apparently god awful, as the main backup C and G.

 

  

I can't comment on Linsley. As you said, it's an unknown. Did Linsley have interested in NY but JD felt the price tag was too high? Did he not have any interest at all? For all we know, he's always dreamed of going to the Chargers and he couldn't pass up the opportunity.
 

Fully agree on drafting more linemen. I'm surprised that Chuma is still on the team, and really hope Feeney never sees the field. But again, sooooooo many gaps to fill on this team, it feels like they are drafting for Best Player Available based on their big board. That's a huge assumption on my part given they don't consult me on strategy.  

I think we're pretty much in agreement that youth gets us were the line needs to be, but that, again, unfortunately is more time for them to develop (though AVT seems to be hitting the ground running after a rough couple of weeks, and other than GVT, the line does at least APPEAR to be functional, though not exceptional).