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The ***Official*** You know you’re going to make fun of Fields MNF thread


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4 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I watched every snap of his.  Even the stinkers had more to do w/ his teammates than him.  As everyone saw last night the Bears love to self sabotage.  Watching them, you would think Fields is the vet playing with a bunch of rookies.  Fields’ bad moment have been the run of the mill rookie stuff (i.e., getting fooled by an exotic look, holding the ball too long, ball security in & out the pocket…etc.).  The long term stuff which I value like decision making, accuracy and ball placement have been very good.  I don’t think we’ve seen his “fantastic” game yet.  He can play much better IMO.

I like Fields. I wanted to draft him at #2. Anyone can go back and read my posts. This isn't about knocking Fields. I think he has potential to be a very good QB. But he hasn't been "fantastic" yet - the other poster I am arguing with is delusional. 

Also - "Even the stinkers had more to do w/ his teammates than him" is stuff people were saying about Sam on this board. 

 

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3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Hmmm. You seem confused. The argument isn't that Justin Fields is a bad QB or that he will be a bad pro. 

The argument is that he hasn't performed any better than Zach Wilson has. He has had just as many "bad" games and they both have had one very good game. (Btw, it's worth pointing out that Wilson led the Jets to a comeback victory in his good game . . . )

In another post, you actually wrote that Fields has been "fantastic" outside of two bad games - as the game by game stats I posted above illustrate - this is blatantly untrue. 

So - You should ask yourself why, in your mind, you have perceived Fields to be markedly better than Wilson, when in point of fact, they have performed very similarly. 

 

 

Ummmm, I never made that argument.  You brought up Wilson.  Not me.  Once you did, I just simply stated a fact, Justin Fields is better than Zach Wilson.   And I say that with confidence because Fields has been fantastic outside of 2 games where Zach has been the worst QB in the NFL outside of 2 drives.  That's a fact. 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Did you watch the game last night?  He was fantastic despite the stat line.  Just like all these other games too.  He is their entire offense, his team is by far the worst offense in the NFL.  Not even close. 

Yes, he was very good last night. 

Wilson was very good in the Titans game (and his team actually won the game, btw). What's your point? 

Fields and Wilson have still performed nearly identically. 

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1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

Ummmm, I never made that argument.  You brought up Wilson.  Not me.  Once you did, I just simply stated a fact, Justin Fields is better than Zach Wilson.   And I say that with confidence because Fields has been fantastic outside of 2 games where Zach has been the worst QB in the NFL outside of 2 drives.  That's a fact. 

 

 

 

Are you sure you know what a "fact" is? 

If it is a "fact" - why does it matter whether or not you say it with "confidence?"

It's almost like . . . it's not a fact. 

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Yes, he was very good last night. 

Wilson was very good in the Titans game (and his team actually won the game, btw). What's your point? 

Fields and Wilson have still performed nearly identically. 

My point?  I dont have a point.  All I did was come into a thread made to bash Fields and laugh at the posters who were calling him a bust in the 1st quarter only for him to ball out of control the rest of the game.  It was you, who brought up Wilson.  Not me.

All I said is Fields has been awesome and the legion of Zach ball washers and Fields haters came out in droves, go figure.  

But since you brought it up, I strongly disagree Wilson and Fields have been identical.  Fields has been significantly better, if you disagree, cool, cant help ya.

 

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7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Are you sure you know what a "fact" is? 

If it is a "fact" - why does it matter whether or not you say it with "confidence?"

It's almost like . . . it's not a fact. 

Really?  I took you for better than this.

Have a nice day.

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2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I like Fields. I wanted to draft him at #2. Anyone can go back and read my posts. This isn't about knocking Fields. I think he has potential to be a very good QB. But he hasn't been "fantastic" yet - the other poster I am arguing with is delusional. 

Also - "Even the stinkers had more to do w/ his teammates than him" is stuff people were saying about Sam on this board. 

 

I wasn’t accusing you of anything.  I was giving my perspective from someone who watched ALL his games and not just the box scores.  Take for what you will.  I’ve watched every Jets snap of Sam’s and every snap of Fields thus far.  If given a choice, give me Fields every day of the week and twice on Sundays.  I also agree that he hasn’t been “fantastic”.  Saying he has, undersells what he’s capable of.

More context about on his struggles for those who care:  

His left tackle is 40 years old and was out of football a few months ago.  His right tackle is a 4/5th string backup.  They simply can’t block the edges.  When forced to pass against teams with good DEs on either side (e.g. Bucs & Browns), it gets ugly quickly.  

He’s also been very unlucky with his INTs.  2 were tipped, 2 were deep passes thrown thinking he had a free play (offsides & 12 man on the field), 1 defensive lineman dropping in front of a shallow cross, 1 WR slips and the one yesterday where the defensive lineman makes a terrific play to jump and intercept at the LOS.  All this is to say that he’s not getting INTs due to poor decisions, bad throws and throwing into coverage.  

I think there’s enough room in the NFL for Fields to become a good player and it has no impact on Zach Wilson. 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I hear ya, but that’s the only objective way to compare them 

if Field is as good as you think he is, his production will dwarf Zach’s sooner than later . . . 

Hopefully both stat lines improve or at the very least Zach’s does along with our win totals. 

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38 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Disagree.  Those stats are jaded by 2 games.  He's been fantastic otherwise.   Did you watch the game last night?  Did he better than the stat line?  **** yes he did, you're lying to yourself if you say different. 

Yes, I watched the game last night, as I have watched every Fields and Wilson game. I wanted Fields over Wilson, and I expected him to have more early success than Wilson, but Ive seen nothing from either that tells me one is better than the other. Both have been more bad than good overall

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8 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I hear ya, but that’s the only objective way to compare them 

if Field is as good as you think he is, his production will dwarf Zach’s sooner than later . . . 

Having Fields on a roster right now is tough for the coach as the media seems to think he’s the best player in the league and everyone and everything is holding him back. It’s odd. Beckham too. 

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To be fair, Fields’ game last night was pretty similar to Zach’s game against the Titans. Lots of gross plays interspersed with a few deep strikes where the defenses didn’t think Zach or Fields could throw it where they did. Fields throws low-hanging fastballs all day long, and doesn’t look like he knows what he’s doing yet, but throwing it deep (and over the traffic) is a great equalizer for a young QB, as we’ve seen with Zach. It’s when they have to pick up a 3rd and seven where it gets ugly. 

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

To be fair, Fields’ game last night was pretty similar to Zach’s game against the Titans. Lots of gross plays interspersed with a few deep strikes where the defenses didn’t think Zach or Fields could throw it where they did. Fields throws low-hanging fastballs all day long, and doesn’t look like he knows what he’s doing yet, but throwing it deep (and over the traffic) is a great equalizer for a young QB, as we’ve seen with Zach. It’s when they have to pick up a 3rd and seven where it gets ugly. 

What was “gross”?

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17 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Ummmm, I never made that argument.  You brought up Wilson.  Not me.  Once you did, I just simply stated a fact, Justin Fields is better than Zach Wilson.   And I say that with confidence because Fields has been fantastic outside of 2 games where Zach has been the worst QB in the NFL outside of 2 drives.  That's a fact. 

 

 

 

OK so let's eliminate the 2 bad games for Fields and the 2 bad games for Zach:

Fields: 75 for 120 62.5% 3TD 4 INTs and 960 yards. Rating: 81.94

Zach:  66 for 112 58.4% 4TD 3 INTs and 798 yards Rating  80.92

If that is the difference between awesome and terrible for you, then have at it..

Both have not been good, and Fields has been arguably worse. You like Fields hate Zach but are rooting for him as a Jet. We get it. And again it is way too early to evaluate either of these guys,

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Absolutely, I do, but some don’t. It appears in my opinion that some just want to see our QB fail and will just put out a negative narrative. 

Maybe I’m naive but I don’t see why someone believing another QB prospect is better than our own automatically means he/she wants our QB to fail or will be bust. Why is everything so binary?  I think fans ought to be able to compartmentalize QB evaluations from rooting for the team and players.   Am I crazy?

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12 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Like what?  Also do you count all net zero and/or negative plays the same?

I can queue up the all 22 and get specific, or I can just point out that he completed 58% of his passes, got picked off by a defensive lineman, and threw one TD in a loss. He was 5-11 for 63 yards with a pick in the first half. Plenty of grossness

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36 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Maybe I’m naive but I don’t see why someone believing another QB prospect is better than our own automatically means he/she wants our QB to fail or will be bust. Why is everything so binary?  I think fans ought to be able to compartmentalize QB evaluations from rooting for the team and players.   Am I crazy?

You are a Jets fan so have to lean towards yes on the first question. What your saying is exactly why I enjoy the draft and seeing where these guys end up how the perform given their circumstances. 
 

I am not referring to this thread alone not a lot of objectivity when it comes to our QB. I was in the Fields camp for awhile and was hoping he was our pick. I don’t care who the QB is as long as we can find one. 

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6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I can queue up the all 22 and get specific, or I can just point out that he completed 58% of his passes, got picked off by a defensive lineman, and threw one TD in a loss. He was 5-11 for 63 yards with a pick in the first half. Plenty of grossness


Fair enough.  I come from the school where not all completions are good plays by the QB just as not all incompletions are bad one.  I guess we differ.

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6 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

You are a Jets fan so half to lean towards yes on the first question. What your saying is exactly why I enjoy the draft and seeing where these guys end up how the perform given their circumstances. 
 

I am not referring to this thread alone not a lot of objectivity when it comes to our QB. I was in the Fields camp for awhile and was hoping he was our pick. I don’t care who the QB is as long as we can find one. 

I just never got the need to take away someone’s fan card because they think another player is better than one of our own.  Argue the point but don’t question their fandom.  One has nothing to do with the other.  I see it all over social media.

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6 minutes ago, legler82 said:


Fair enough.  I come from the school where not all completions are good plays by the QB just as not all incompletions are bad one.  I guess we differ.

I don’t think it takes away from Fields to say he had a fair amount of ugly downs last night. He’s a rookie—he’s going to lose on a lot of downs. Believe me, I enjoyed the game last night because a lot of Jets fans tuned in hoping to clown Fields as justification for the Jets drafting Wilson instead of him, and Fields made the eat their asses (cc: @Irish Jet). 

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t think it takes away from Fields to say he had a fair amount of ugly downs last night. He’s a rookie—he’s going to lose on a lot of downs. Believe me, I enjoyed the game last night because a lot of Jets fans tuned in hoping to clown Fields as justification for the Jets drafting Wilson instead of him, and Fields made the eat their asses (cc: @Irish Jet). 

The offense had ugly downs but I wouldn’t say Fields specifically had ugly and/or “gross” ones.  I guess that’s where we disagree.  To me a QB specific ugly down is something like this.

 

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51 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Bears fans will never forgive Nagy for picking Trubisky over Mahomes and Watson. That die is cast.

Nagy wasn't there for that--it was Fox's last year (and Fox apparently pounded the table for Watson).

But I can confirm that the editorial position of the Chicago media is that Justin Fields cannot fail; he can only be failed

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56 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Yes, I watched the game last night, as I have watched every Fields and Wilson game. I wanted Fields over Wilson, and I expected him to have more early success than Wilson, but Ive seen nothing from either that tells me one is better than the other. Both have been more bad than good overall

Meh, that didnt really answer my question.  I asked you if Fields looked better than his stat line?  If you're being honest, the answer is yes. Ofcourse he did.  And that's the point.  Giving me stats doesnt tell the whole story.  When you watch Fields, you see very clearly how much he has to overcome to perform well.  And he has performed well, except for two times where he looked abysmal.  Unfortunately, you cant really say that about Zach and if we're going by stats, a game log would be more telling and it tells you, Fields is consistently better. 

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27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t think it takes away from Fields to say he had a fair amount of ugly downs last night. He’s a rookie—he’s going to lose on a lot of downs. Believe me, I enjoyed the game last night because a lot of Jets fans tuned in hoping to clown Fields as justification for the Jets drafting Wilson instead of him, and Fields made the eat their asses (cc: @Irish Jet). 

I have no idea why IJ was so emphatically low on his view of Fields as a prospect.  Dude actually said leading up to the draft that he had him as a 4th round caliber prospect and even during the game last night said stuff like this:

 

21 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Fields was the most overrated NFL prospect in the last decade.

 

21 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Fields doesn’t stand a chance. He was an irredeemable prospect from the jump. Wilson’s flaws may be ironed out or not but he was and still is a better prospect than this trash.

Fields’ legs are all that he has at this level, his pocket awareness and accuracy under pressure is as bad as any practice squad QB.

 

I think Fields banged his girl or something. 

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