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Why is the defense so bad?


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17 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

We lack any kind of talent across all 3 levels. What should be depth, is starting andddd that’s not good. 

There truly are no playmakers at any level of the defense.  There are no true pass rushers and thumpers at lb.  the secondary has held up well all considering.

get ready for 2 defensive players to be taken in the first round next draft.  one DE and one LB.

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42 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Over pursuing from the linebackers is a real issue.  Bills knew it and exploited it too.  The Jets DL isn’t the type and don’t appear to be asked to just keep the LOS stationary and let the LBs flow and make all the tackles.  Jets DL is asked to attack and penetrate, which should mean the LBs are very strict with gap discipline, but they aren’t.

Scheme ego is what gets coaches fired, to your point on Guidry.  It’s also(or lack of) that makes Belichick such a great defensive coach.  Regardless of his pieces on defense, he will make sure your best guy doesn’t beat them.  And against a team like the Bills whose secondary weapons are iffy, it makes all the sense in the world.
 

Thank you for explaining in some detail as to why the heck this defence looks so lost out there.

Now if a guy like Belichick  knows to take away the opposite team’s best guy, and you know that you must take away the opposite team’s best Guy, and myself (who obviously knows nothing about defensive schemes) knows that in order to have any possibility of wining, one must take away the opposite team’s best guy, then that begs the question: why doesn’t our coaching staff know this ?
Is it that hard for coaches out there to admit that their schemes aren’t working and maybe it’s time to use other  styles or structures and try those out instead?

Is it because the players are too stupid to understand this?

i’m being serious. even though Robert Salah is in his very first year, I’m simply not impressed thus far. There is zero adjustments go on… but I admit maybe I just don’t know what I’m looking at.

In the end, it’s all about coaching. Don’t tell me that if Zach Wilson was a patriot he wouldn’t have the same numbers that Mac Jones is having if not more…

Rookie head coach,+rookie offensive coordinator+rookie defensive coordinator + rookie QB = lots of ugly football 

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1 hour ago, RSJ said:

 


Oh ok. Now we are switching back to needing top 5 picks along the defensive front again. Everyone says we need them on the OL too. Ita going to take until 2025 to get all these top 5 picks together so we dont give up 500 yards a game. Remember how we were told you can’t rebuild through free agency? Well NE just did it in one offseason. So try again, Joe Douglas.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

not all on the DL but all on defense. yeah you can get some people in FA too.

you cant ignore the defense any longer in the first 4 picks. 

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33 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

We lack any kind of talent across all 3 levels. What should be depth, is starting andddd that’s not good. 

Bingo. We only have a handful of guys who would start on other teams.

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1 hour ago, RSJ said:

 


Yeah well generally teams have this thing called depth on their roster. Maybe the Jets should try and give it a shot sometime.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

This! The Jets haven't had depth for as long as i can remember. Mike T would trade away picks for Vets which worked for a while, but they young depth guys weren't brought on. I think that is why we lost Westhoff - he didn't get any depth players to use for his unit.

Then we had bad drafting by Idzik and Mac. We have no depth. This is why even 5th and 6th round picks are important; you must have a constant influx of young players. Because you are drafting them in the later rounds, you need enough picks to get a few keepers as they are harder to hit in the later rounds. This is also why a pick that doesn't start or play for a year or two isn't a problem if picked on day 3 - they are depth - you hope you don't need them.

Sadly, it will take another year or two until we have depth everywhere. We have depth at WR and TE (although they all suck - so maybe that doesn't count). We are starting to get depth at OL and CB.

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No one wants to hear this but injuries are a big part of it.  Both starting safeties are gone, planned pieces at OLB and Lawson and Huff all out. Those are significant losses.
Based on what is on the field right now however, I think the biggest reason is our Linebackers stink.  Specifically the 2 outside backers.  

CJ isn’t that great either, but compared to the other two numbskulls he’s an all-pro.

Our DL is that good either, so to compensate for both units ineptitude, the coaching staff had to play cover 1.

I fully expect this upcoming draft addresses edge and LB with our 1st 4 picks.
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1 hour ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1460028784262983684

 

The Jets have allowed 1,890 yards in the last four games. It's the most yards allowed in a four-game span in team history, per

. Previous was 1,860 in 1963. #Jets

Cover zero was better than this.

Even Gase was successful scripting plays to score points on the first drive.

Pathetic…

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It's probably a number of things but we just changed to 4-3 defense after running a 3-4 for over a decade. That's a pretty big deal and the turnover in personal is significant. 

Starting from scratch with a lot of young guys and an inexperienced DC doesn't help. 

One thing I am wondering is what in the actual Fk happened during the bye week? We've given up way more points on average after than before.

Maybe the Patriots went to school on our defense and created a blueprint for other teams attacking our D. I wonder if maybe some coaching roles changed during that week that just aren't working out.

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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/11/14/jets-have-allowed-175-points-in-their-last-four-games/amp/

 

The Jets got stomped 45-17 by the Bills on Sunday and the result continued an alarming trend for the team’s defense.

They have allowed 175 points in their four games since the bye, which Rich Cimini of ESPN.com notes is the second-most allowed by any team over a four-game span since the NFL/AFL merger. The 2004 Titans allowed 177 points over a similarly foul stretch.

During this stretch, the Jets have allowed at least 45 points three times. There have only been seven cases of teams scoring 45 points in a game all season and they are the first team to do so three times in a four-game stretch since the 1966 Giants.

The offense didn’t help by turning the ball over five times against Buffalo, but head coach Robert Saleh said that the team’s defensive product “clearly hasn’t been good enough” and there remains much to fix around the Jets in Saleh’s first season on the sideline.

 

atleast we have something to hang our hat on

 

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15 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/11/14/jets-have-allowed-175-points-in-their-last-four-games/amp/

 

The Jets got stomped 45-17 by the Bills on Sunday and the result continued an alarming trend for the team’s defense.

They have allowed 175 points in their four games since the bye, which Rich Cimini of ESPN.com notes is the second-most allowed by any team over a four-game span since the NFL/AFL merger. The 2004 Titans allowed 177 points over a similarly foul stretch.

During this stretch, the Jets have allowed at least 45 points three times. There have only been seven cases of teams scoring 45 points in a game all season and they are the first team to do so three times in a four-game stretch since the 1966 Giants.

The offense didn’t help by turning the ball over five times against Buffalo, but head coach Robert Saleh said that the team’s defensive product “clearly hasn’t been good enough” and there remains much to fix around the Jets in Saleh’s first season on the sideline.

 

atleast we have something to hang our hat on

 

When jets fans said Douglas was changing the culture I didnt know they meant having the offense and defense be completely awful at the same time instead of just the offense.

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Big test next week.  The Dolphins defense has had its moments but their offense is really bad.  No QB, No RB, one rookie wr to worry about and one good TE.

If we get run on and hammered for big points vs the phins then all hope is lost.

 

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7 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Cause the y are young and missing big time players at a few spots.  That will be shored up through the draft and free agency the next 2 years and we will be an excellent defense for our 2023 super bowl run.

Salehs getting sh*tcanned in 13 months. 

 

If his name was Bob Smith,  it would be 2.

 

Stop it.

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7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah this is the other side of the coin of starting so many rookies at once.

I'm good with trading down to keep doubling up in round 1 or more in '23, but how many rookies and 2nd year players do we really want to start every year?

At least when it's a normal class it goes without saying that we usually expect nothing to come out of about the latter half of picks, especially in rounds 5-7 (at least for a couple years, or on & off the field as role players). This coming year there are two 1sts, two 2nds, a 3rd, and two 4ths. Most fans expect starters in the first 2 rounds (realistic or not), and at least for 1 of the 3 picks in rounds 3-4. So what is that, 5 more rookies we're supposed to field next year?

You think this team is a bit too young now? Wait until a handful more veteran starters get replaced by rookies. They'll be running into each other.

The team needs a mix. This isn't to say "competitive rebuild" where we go balls-deep on FAs whose careers are almost over. It's that you can't have babies learning from/alongside babies. Not to be outdone, we're doing this with almost an all-rookie coaching staff.

Blind leading the blind. 

They tried that, but look what happened 

Lawson-out for the year 

Joyner-out for the year 

Maye-out for the year 

Davis-missed half the year 

The CBs were young, but there were plenty of vets in the original plan. 
 

No idea how Saleh ran good 49ers defenses because his scheme is atrocious. 

 

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55 minutes ago, GloryDays1985 said:

They tried that, but look what happened 

Lawson-out for the year 

Joyner-out for the year 

Maye-out for the year 

Davis-missed half the year 

The CBs were young, but there were plenty of vets in the original plan. 
 

No idea how Saleh ran good 49ers defenses because his scheme is atrocious. 

 

Lawson's really the only one from this list that I'm sympathetic to.

Davis looks pretty bad, at least so far, and has never been a stout run blocker nor a reliable tackler anyway. Detroit had reasons for letting him go, and for not even exercising his 5th year option.

Maye wasn't having a stellar season either, despite it being another contract year for him. While it may be even worse without him back there, he's just one person.

Joyner shouldn't be a starter anymore anyway. He's 31 and his last good season was 2018 at age 28, hardly uncommon for DBs. 

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JD’s attempt to roster the defense was kaboshed with the Joyner and Lawson injuries.  He whiffed on Jarrad Davis.  Mosley we are stuck with another year.  He drafted cbs.  Hopefully the 2 LBs work out.  We have Rankins and Quinnen another 2-3 years.  Quinnen is it getting extended beyond 1 tag. 

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3 hours ago, GloryDays1985 said:

They tried that, but look what happened 

Lawson-out for the year 

Joyner-out for the year 

Maye-out for the year 

Davis-missed half the year 

The CBs were young, but there were plenty of vets in the original plan. 
 

No idea how Saleh ran good 49ers defenses because his scheme is atrocious. 

 

This is just a reminder than Douglas is as much responsible for this as Saleh. Add Joyner and Davis to the long list of guys stealing money from the Jets. Douglas' handpicked defensive coach has taken a mediocre group and taken it to lows never before seen in the NFL and yet Saleh gets all the blame while the guy who hired him gets a pass. 

Nothing will happen of course. Literally the worst 4 game stretch of any defence in history and there's still no accountability to be seen - And our fanbase is still filled with Douglas cultists making the most pathetic excuses for all of this - If pressure isn't going to be applied from there then it wont be applied at all. A franchise with even a semblance of self respect would be cleaning house at the end of this. 

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17 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

This is just a reminder than Douglas is as much responsible for this as Saleh. Add Joyner and Davis to the long list of guys stealing money from the Jets. Douglas' handpicked defensive coach has taken a mediocre group and taken it to lows never before seen in the NFL and yet Saleh gets all the blame while the guy who hired him gets a pass. 

Nothing will happen of course. Literally the worst 4 game stretch of any defence in history and there's still no accountability to be seen - And our fanbase is still filled with Douglas cultists making the most pathetic excuses for all of this - If pressure isn't going to be applied from there then it wont be applied at all. A franchise with even a semblance of self respect would be cleaning house at the end of this. 

yeah it's pretty bad. not winning too many games was to be expected. being a total embarrassment on the field was not

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12 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

No one wants to hear this but injuries are a big part of it.  Both starting safeties are gone, planned pieces at OLB and Lawson and Huff all out. Those are significant losses.

Based on what is on the field right now however, I think the biggest reason is our Linebackers stink.  Specifically the 2 outside backers.  

This.

And it really goes back to Mac and the whole “pipeline if linebackers” he promised and never delivered on.

Joe Douglas hasn’t been great, but very few GMs inherit a roster where the previous GM spent 6 years in his role and never once hit in a draft pick. Not an excuse, but simply perspective that those crying out for name are grossly short-sighted to only blame JD. 

What we’re seeing is the cumulative effect of late-stage Rex idiocy, Idzik, Mac, Bowles and Gase doing nothing right here for 10 years.

Joe hasn’t performed a miracle. I don’t know how else to frame it.

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12 hours ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichCimini/status/1460028784262983684

 

The Jets have allowed 1,890 yards in the last four games. It's the most yards allowed in a four-game span in team history, per

. Previous was 1,860 in 1963. #Jets

At least we are Number 1 Somewhere!!!

Lets Go Jets!! :) 

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It's a combo of scheme, talent and experience.  The scheme is terrible and they literally dont adjust at all.  It's totally undisciplined.  At times, it's like they actually dont have a plan, everyone is just free lancing.  The only player on D with the ability to even notice or have instincts to know a play before it's called is Mosley and he's a shell of himself.  So any bit of a fake, misdirection, counter - completely confuses the defense and the spacing is so bad that I dont really think they have any answers.

The talent is atrocious.  The DL is terrible.  The LB'ers are laughable.  The secondary is being hung out to dry.  There isnt a single impact player, game changer, havoc wreaker on the entire defense.  

But mainly, this is on coaching.  These guys are pros.  I dont care how bad they are, giving up the amount of yards and points in 4 consecutive games, is 100% on coaching.

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this team just can't respond to the injuries or the players being out of position.  there's no margin.  and it doesn't help when the qb throws 4 picks or a receiver has a key fumble.  and the biggest thing affecting the w-l record is the turnover ratio.  one blurb said they were -15.  i think after the game that went up to -18.

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