Its all about the offensive line!

[MysticalJet2]

Just like Brady, Mac could bake a cake back there, and not its not because its Atlanta... it has been like this for years.   Along with a reputable rush game.  You put any of the top QB's that were selected in this draft back there, and they would excel.  I absolutely hate NE, but this offense is how you help develop a young QB. 

Of course their defense allows them to play an offense like this - not need to take many risks.  Just makes me sick how their formula has worked for so many years  time and time again, and no-one else seems to be able to replicate it.

[varjet]

2 minutes ago, MysticalJet2 said:

Just like Brady, Mac could bake a cake back there, and not its not because its Atlanta... it has been like this for years.   Along with a reputable rush game.  You put any of the top QB's that were selected in this draft back there, and they would excel.  I absolutely hate NE, but this offense is how you help develop a young QB. 

Of course their defense allows them to play an offense like this - not need to take many risks.  Just makes me sick how their formula has worked for so many years  time and time again, and no-one else seems to be able to replicate it.

JD said he was building in the trenches and then pussy-footed around.  The Bills went out and acquired many multiple lineman/year to build their lines.  JD hedged his bets-mistake.   Both lines should be better than they are.  

Elijah Moore over Creed Humphrey?  No. 

[Fantasy Island]

Plus The pats hold like a mother and don’t get called for it.

[jgb]

So then the Jets aren't even to copy an obvious route to success. This is a further indictment of JD.

[BUM-KNEE]

2 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Plus The pats hold like a mother and don’t get called for it.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Plus The pats hold like a mother and don’t get called for it.

 

3 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

Overall Totals By Team

There was an average of 12.28 Offensive Holding penalties per team league wide.

Patriots 6th highest called offensive holding penalties in the league with 17. 

Jets below league average with 12.

[BUM-KNEE]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

Overall Totals By Team

There was an average of 12.28 Offensive Holding penalties per team league wide.

Patriots 6th highest called offensive holding penalties in the league with 17. 

Jets below league average with 12.

Yeah how many offensive plays they run so far?

 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, BUM-KNEE said:

Yeah how many offensive plays they run so far?

 

So that's your Siegfried line? The Allies are coming. Go home to your family.

[Greenseed4]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

Overall Totals By Team

There was an average of 12.28 Offensive Holding penalties per team league wide.

Patriots 6th highest called offensive holding penalties in the league with 17. 

Jets below league average with 12.

What are the totals of holds that don’t get called? 

[BUM-KNEE]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

So that's your Siegfried line? The Allies are coming. Go home to your family.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

What are the totals of holds that don’t get called? 

Premise: Pats don't get called for holding.

Fact: They do, at a statistically-significant rate above league average.

Counter: Yeah but.... I feel they get away with more stuff!

 

[LSJF]

It’s all about coaching and talent or lack thereof

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

Prefer to sit back and eat K-rations until you starve out.

[BigRy56]

Falcons are fortunate to be down 13-0. That was a beat down of a first half

[BUM-KNEE]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Prefer to sit back and eat K-rations until you starve out.

HaHa

[Greenseed4]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

Premise: Pats don't get called for holding.

Fact: They do, at a rate far above league average.

Counter: Yeah but.... I feel they get away with more stuff!

 

Actually the argument was: “they hold like a mother and don’t get called for it.”

Your counter: actually they been called for it 17 times, 6th highest in league. 
 

Fact: they don’t get called for holding 100% of the time they do it. 

My Counter: what’s that number then? because that’s the argument.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Actually the argument was: “they hold like a mother and don’t get called for it.”

Your counter: actually they been called for it 17 times, 6th highest in league. 
 

Fact: they don’t get called for holding 100% of the time they do it. 

My Counter: what’s that number then? because that’s the argument.

You must be awesome at Twister.

[AFJF]

40 minutes ago, jgb said:

Premise: Pats don't get called for holding.

Fact: They do, at a statistically-significant rate above league average.

Counter: Yeah but.... I feel they get away with more stuff!

 

Don't you dare question my lived experience!

[derp]

33 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Actually the argument was: “they hold like a mother and don’t get called for it.”

Your counter: actually they been called for it 17 times, 6th highest in league. 
 

Fact: they don’t get called for holding 100% of the time they do it. 

My Counter: what’s that number then? because that’s the argument.

30 minutes ago, jgb said:

You must be awesome at Twister.

It’s an interesting discussion that brings to mind when Rick Pitino had Louisville teams that basically used to ticky tack foul a lot because they knew the refs couldn’t always call it. Once they effectively reset that bar of what was a foul it was easier to get turnovers, stops, etc. Doesn't always work and sometimes you have to adjust because it’s actually getting called but when it does it’s a huge help. No idea if the Pats actually do that but I could see the premise translating to stuff like holding, illegal contact, etc.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, derp said:

It’s an interesting discussion that brings to mind when Rick Pitino had Louisville teams that basically used to ticky tack foul a lot because they knew the refs couldn’t always call it. Once they effectively reset that bar of what was a foul it was easier to get turnovers, stops, etc. Doesn't always work and sometimes you have to adjust because it’s actually getting called but when it does it’s a huge help. No idea if the Pats actually do that but I could see the premise translating to stuff like holding, illegal contact, etc.

The easiest way to escape a flawed premise is to raise one that is untestable.  

[doitny]

im glad every one likes the NE OL. 

there is ONE..1st rd pick on the line. they have two 6ths, a 4th and a UDFA as there Center.

and someone mentioned Buffalo.? they have zero 1st rd picks. they have two 2nds a 3rd and a few FAs.

i keep telling you guys you dont need to use high capital 1st rd picks all over the line. the best teams in the league dont waste there 1st rds on them. but us we need 3 or 4 of them ? smh

[jgb]

1 minute ago, doitny said:

im glad every one likes the NE OL. 

there is ONE..1st rd pick on the line. they have two 6ths, a 4th and a UDFA as there Center.

and someone mentioned Buffalo.? they have zero 1st rd picks. they have two 2nds a 3rd and a few FAs.

i keep telling you guys you dont need to use high capital 1st rd picks all over the line. the best teams in the league dont waste there 1st rds on them. but us we need 3 or 4 of them ? smh

JD is a master of the OL. Give him 5 first round picks and he can deliver league-average play until the unit "gels" over the course of 1.5 seasons.

[doitny]

16 minutes ago, jgb said:

JD is a master of the OL. Give him 5 first round picks and he can deliver league-average play until the unit "gels" over the course of 1.5 seasons.

league avg is good enough for now. look at that last play where Mac almost got decapitated. even the best lines get there QB hit. 

if Zach needs the best OL in the league then he just like Sam and he sucks.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, doitny said:

league avg is good enough for now. look at that last play where Mac almost got decapitated. even the best lines get there QB hit. 

if Zach needs the best OL in the league then he just like Sam and he sucks.

No, QBs are meaningless and interchangeable. The only difference between Joe Montana and Sam Darnold is Jerry Rice.

[doitny]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

No, QBs are meaningless and interchangeable. The only difference between Joe Montana and Sam Darnold is Jerry Rice.

is that why Robbie went from 95 catches with Teddy B and with Sam he was going to finish with 38? he even had more catches in one game with PJ/Cam than with Darnold.

maybe Sam was not the best example

[jgb]

Just now, doitny said:

is that why Robbie went from 95 catches with Teddy B and with Sam he was going to finish with 38? he even had more catches in one game with PJ/Cam than with Darnold.

maybe Sam was not the best example

OK you got me. I meant Geno Smith.

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

JD said he was building in the trenches and then pussy-footed around.  The Bills went out and acquired many multiple lineman/year to build their lines.  JD hedged his bets-mistake.   Both lines should be better than they are.  

Elijah Moore over Creed Humphrey?  No. 

I understand the impulse, but I’m not sure I agree. Moore is hella talented and has flashed with some very questionable QB play on a terrible team. Get some decent QB play for once in your miserable life as a pathetic franchise, and that guy will be a super fun Jet to watch for a long, long time. 
 

I get the argument, but I’m good with Moore 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I understand the impulse, but I’m not sure I agree. Moore is hella talented and has flashed with some very questionable QB play on a terrible team. Get some decent QB play for once in your miserable life as a pathetic franchise, and that guy will be a super fun Jet to watch for a long, long time. 
 

I get the argument, but I’m good with Moore 

Moore will spend the off season in a Jainist monastery to make sure in the next life he doesn't come back as a Jet. 

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

 

Overall Totals By Team

There was an average of 12.28 Offensive Holding penalties per team league wide.

Patriots 6th highest called offensive holding penalties in the league with 17. 

Jets below league average with 12.

Just imagine how high that number would be if the officials actually threw a flag on 80% of the plays where the Pats hold.

[jgb]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

Just imagine how high that number would be if the officials actually threw a flag on 80% of the plays where the Pats hold.

I boo your amorphous argument that can neither be defended nor assaulted.

[redlichtie]

46 minutes ago, doitny said:

im glad every one likes the NE OL. 

there is ONE..1st rd pick on the line. they have two 6ths, a 4th and a UDFA as there Center.

and someone mentioned Buffalo.? they have zero 1st rd picks. they have two 2nds a 3rd and a few FAs.

i keep telling you guys you dont need to use high capital 1st rd picks all over the line. the best teams in the league dont waste there 1st rds on them. but us we need 3 or 4 of them ? smh

This, it’s remarkable that with a defense as abysmal as ours that people still think we need to draft a C and an RG with our two likely top 10 picks…absolute insanity 

[doitny]

39 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

This, it’s remarkable that with a defense as abysmal as ours that people still think we need to draft a C and an RG with our two likely top 10 picks…absolute insanity 

they look at the 2009-10 teams and see two 1st rders and think thats the blueprint for a great team. but if we would have picked TE Vernon Davis instead of Brick would we have been better? and he was peaking in 2009-10 what an incredible weapon for Sanchez and we replace Brick with a little lesser talent.

or we dont draft Mangold and draft Maurice Jones Drew who also happen to peak in 2009-10. funny how so many guys peak in there 4th year. this board would have definitely had Davis as a bust after one year and would have him traded. the guy is probably going into the HOF. then they wonder why nothing good happens to us.

hell draft both Davis and Drew and get a Center and LT in the 2nd and 3rd rds or FA. imagine the offense we would have. we might even have a ring or two now.

 

[Jared]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

im glad every one likes the NE OL. 

there is ONE..1st rd pick on the line. they have two 6ths, a 4th and a UDFA as there Center.

and someone mentioned Buffalo.? they have zero 1st rd picks. they have two 2nds a 3rd and a few FAs.

i keep telling you guys you dont need to use high capital 1st rd picks all over the line. the best teams in the league dont waste there 1st rds on them. but us we need 3 or 4 of them ? smh

I am in super agreement that OL is massively impacted by coaching.  THAT BEING SAID, the Pats OL didn't look nearly as good the first few weeks of this season when they had Herron and Durant at RT, waiting for Trent Brown to get healthy.  Once they moved Onwenu from LG back to RT (which is where they played him last year) and replaced Onwenu with Karras at LG (Karras isn't amazing, but he is an experienced interior lineman with starter experience), the OL looked significantly better.

 

OL is tough.  One weak spot can absolutely make the entire unit look terrible.  But also good coaching and good schemes can make an average unit look exceptional.  It is absolutely a place that teams should invest, but honestly outside of spending money on good coaching, I don't know that I would overpay for top of the first round tackles. 

[redlichtie]

5 minutes ago, doitny said:

they look at the 2009-10 teams and see two 1st rders and think thats the blueprint for a great team. but if we would have picked TE Vernon Davis instead of Brick would we have been better? and he was peaking in 2009-10 what an incredible weapon for Sanchez and we replace Brick with a little lesser talent.

or we dont draft Mangold and draft Maurice Jones Drew who also happen to peak in 2009-10. funny how so many guys peak in there 4th year. this board would have definitely had Davis as a bust after one year and would have him traded. the guy is probably going into the HOF. then they wonder why nothing good happens to us.

hell draft both Davis and Drew and get a Center and LT in the 2nd and 3rd rds or FA. imagine the offense we would have. we might even have a ring or two now.

 

Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying never pick OL high but with Becton and AVT we have already invested heavily in that line, we absolutely have to be able to hit on guys in Rd 2, 3 or later …or pick up solid veterans like Morgan Moses . If Joe Douglas is any good he’ll get improvements there.

[MysticalJet2]

There needs to be a better effort or execution on the Oline for the Jets.  I don't really care if we use FA, 1st round, 6th round, or whatever, we just need to do better at picking the right guys, coaching them up or fitting to the right scheme to protect the QB.  Our online has stunk for far too long and JD hasn't fixed the issue - either with players or coaches at this point.  We are week 9 and already our starting QB has been knocked out of the game and our back-up knocked out of the game 2X.  How many times is Mac been knocked out of the game this year?  How about Brady when he was in NE - He had one year of injury that I can recall.