Saleh is getting canned right?

[Copernicus]

Heard (on Matt O'Leary pod) that Saleh is going through some stuff outside of football. Apparently he is being taken by his home contractor on a ridiculous level. Any home owner here knows the stress and anxiety that hiring someone to do work is on yourself , spouse and indirectly everything else. I cant imagine moving cross country to NY of all places and having this awful experience. The podcast spoke how his entire family has been living out of a hotel this entire time. Anyone with kids (I believe Saleh has SEVEN) can fully relate to how insane this most likely is. Could explain some things. Can anyone confirm this?

[faba]

We have to do a better job drafting and hit on some free agent defensive signings that pan out -there are no playmakers on that defense not even close to any

[Dcat]

6 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

Heard (on Matt O'Leary pod) that Saleh is going through some stuff outside of football. Apparently he is being taken by his home contractor on a ridiculous level. Any home owner here knows the stress and anxiety that hiring someone to do work is on yourself , spouse and indirectly everything else. I cant imagine moving cross country to NY of all places and having this awful experience. The podcast spoke how his entire family has been living out of a hotel this entire time. Anyone with kids (I believe Saleh has SEVEN) can fully relate to how insane this most likely is. Could explain some things. Can anyone confirm this?

He's having a house built in NJ?  Ha... He'll be fired before the C/O is issued.

[munchmemory]

15 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

Heard (on Matt O'Leary pod) that Saleh is going through some stuff outside of football. Apparently he is being taken by his home contractor on a ridiculous level. Any home owner here knows the stress and anxiety that hiring someone to do work is on yourself , spouse and indirectly everything else. I cant imagine moving cross country to NY of all places and having this awful experience. The podcast spoke how his entire family has been living out of a hotel this entire time. Anyone with kids (I believe Saleh has SEVEN) can fully relate to how insane this most likely is. Could explain some things. Can anyone confirm this?

This is where we're heading already?   Throwing these excuses up for Saleh's performance?  After only 10 games, he might be the most SOJ HC in our glorious history.

[NorthCoastJetsFan]

Holy smokes, have some patience.

Here are some numbers for you: 1-13, 3-12-1, 2-14, 0-11-1.  Those are the first year records of Chuck Noll, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh and Tom Landry. Which one of those should have been fired after that?

This team was basically an expansion team after last year's 2-14 disaster. Why would anyone think that they were going to be anything more than a 3 or 4 win team? You would have to have been delusional to think that they would be anywhere close to .500 this year.

I don't know if Saleh is the right guy, and there certainly have been some disturbing moments. But firing him after one season would be reactionary and just plain idiotic. BTW, no one with any kind of intelligence would take this job after they fire him after one year.

[Copernicus]

11 minutes ago, Dcat said:

He's having a house built in NJ?  Ha... He'll be fired before the C/O is issued.

Dcat, I get it, Im as frustrated as the next but do you seriously think (or want) the Jets to fire Saleh after such a small example of games? There has to be a learning curve for a rookie HC, no? Not to mention who would replace him? What quality HC would come here knowing if they do not win immediately they will be fired? Douglas fought for a 6 year contract, Saleh 5 years. They were telling us that it is going to take some time. How many years were the Bills rebuilding? SF? TB? Rams? Chargers? Miami is in year 3 of the rebuild and is barely showing signs of growth only in the last 3 weeks.  I feel like any (recent) good established team took multiple seasons to get it right. It is not the answer we want to hear but it is going to take more than 10 games 

[Namath99]

30 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

Heard (on Matt O'Leary pod) that Saleh is going through some stuff outside of football. Apparently he is being taken by his home contractor on a ridiculous level. Any home owner here knows the stress and anxiety that hiring someone to do work is on yourself , spouse and indirectly everything else. I cant imagine moving cross country to NY of all places and having this awful experience. The podcast spoke how his entire family has been living out of a hotel this entire time. Anyone with kids (I believe Saleh has SEVEN) can fully relate to how insane this most likely is. Could explain some things. Can anyone confirm this?

That’s what Saleh gets for trying to get a house in the NJ market right now

 

Not only is the current housing market a seller’s market, NJ property taxes are the worst in the country.  Anyone who tries to buy or build in NJ right now is a sucker

 

The guy could have rented something nice for him and his family and have the freedom to walk away once the lease is done and/or Woody fired him because Wilson didn’t pan out

[Namath99]

4 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

Dcat, I get it, Im as frustrated as the next but do you seriously think (or want) the Jets to fire Saleh after such a small example of games? There has to be a learning curve for a rookie HC, no? Not to mention who would replace him? What quality HC would come here knowing if they do not win immediately they will be fired? Douglas fought for a 6 year contract, Saleh 5 years. They were telling us that it is going to take some time. How many years were the Bills rebuilding? SF? TB? Rams? Chargers? Miami is in year 3 of the rebuild and is barely showing signs of growth only in the last 3 weeks.  I feel like any (recent) good established team took multiple seasons to get it right. It is not the answer we want to hear but it is going to take more than 10 games 

What was the learning curve for Frank Reich, Jim Harbaugh?  Even Rex got to a AFCG as a rookie HC with a rookie qb

[munchmemory]

15 minutes ago, NorthCoastJetsFan said:

Holy smokes, have some patience.

Here are some numbers for you: 1-13, 3-12-1, 2-14, 0-11-1.  Those are the first year records of Chuck Noll, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh and Tom Landry. Which one of those should have been fired after that?

This team was basically an expansion team after last year's 2-14 disaster. Why would anyone think that they were going to be anything more than a 3 or 4 win team? You would have to have been delusional to think that they would be anywhere close to .500 this year.

I don't know if Saleh is the right guy, and there certainly have been some disturbing moments. But firing him after one season would be reactionary and just plain idiotic. BTW, no one with any kind of intelligence would take this job after they fire him after one year.

Massive difference is that all those franchises had ownership who were knowledgeable, had competence, and actually cared about winning over just accepting the annual media money from the NFL.    Woody?  lol

No disrespect, but in my opinion, the belief that Saleh will become one of those HC icons is laughable.  Don't waste your energy.  He doesn't have it.

[ZachEY]

We lead the league in snaps by rookies by a fairly substantial margin - can't find the most recent data - but it was about 200.  There's no reason to be excited by Saleh, but are we ever going to stop blaming the coaches - ever - and look at the actual team?

This is all really bad.  But, there's all but nothing from Macc's 5 drafts on the roster and Douglas's first draft thus far is uninspiring.  Add to that, Douglas isn't trying to fight for .500 football w/ stupid free agent signings, and you're left with a roster that's not very good.

Saleh isn't the reason for Jason Pinnock, and no amount of coaching is making this group good.  We're still a ways off.  While I've certainly lost my patience, there's still the objective reality that there's just no talent on this team.

[Peace Frog]

Rather than firing our coach every year or 2, we should be thinking about firing the coach week to week.  

Get blown out?  Fire him. Hire new coach.

Get blown out the next week? Fire him and get another coach.

It's not about the lack of talent, it's the coach.

Keep hiring a new coach every week until we start winning games.  It's how stable franchises operate.  

 

[Peace Frog]

4 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

there's still the objective reality that there's just no talent on this team.

Exactly.  But when you think about how likely decent this past draft is and the draft capital we have, we might be building a solid roster.  If Bechton and Mims rebound, 2020 won't look so bad either.  Hell, if Bechton becomes a stud LT, it's almost good right there.  Big if but still.  

[rox]

[undertow]

50 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

Heard (on Matt O'Leary pod) that Saleh is going through some stuff outside of football. Apparently he is being taken by his home contractor on a ridiculous level. Any home owner here knows the stress and anxiety that hiring someone to do work is on yourself , spouse and indirectly everything else. I cant imagine moving cross country to NY of all places and having this awful experience. The podcast spoke how his entire family has been living out of a hotel this entire time. Anyone with kids (I believe Saleh has SEVEN) can fully relate to how insane this most likely is. Could explain some things. Can anyone confirm this?

So some kid with a Youtube channel said Robert Salah is coaching horribly because he has contractor problems?  Is that what we are doing here? lol

[slimjasi]

39 minutes ago, NorthCoastJetsFan said:

Holy smokes, have some patience.

Here are some numbers for you: 1-13, 3-12-1, 2-14, 0-11-1.  Those are the first year records of Chuck Noll, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh and Tom Landry. Which one of those should have been fired after that?

This team was basically an expansion team after last year's 2-14 disaster. Why would anyone think that they were going to be anything more than a 3 or 4 win team? You would have to have been delusional to think that they would be anywhere close to .500 this year.

I don't know if Saleh is the right guy, and there certainly have been some disturbing moments. But firing him after one season would be reactionary and just plain idiotic. BTW, no one with any kind of intelligence would take this job after they fire him after one year.

Beli was also 6-10 in hi first year in Cleveland and 5-11 in his first year in New England. 

[ZachEY]

22 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Exactly.  But when you think about how likely decent this past draft is and the draft capital we have, we might be building a solid roster.  If Bechton and Mims rebound, 2020 won't look so bad either.  Hell, if Bechton becomes a stud LT, it's almost good right there.  Big if but still.  

Agreed.  Though, I think Mims is sort of finished, and Becton - I don't know.  I don't see how you give him his job back.  Fant has played well.  Becton seems like if we ever see him again, it's at RT.

[Peace Frog]

3 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

 Though, I think Mims is sort of finished

Geez, I really hope not.

How the hell did that happen?  

[varjet]

Saleh impressed everyone as a high quality, smart person who everyone thought did a good job with the SF defense when he had talent-SF did draft DL every year for the most part.   If the Jets believe this, they need to invest in him and draft for him.

If the Jets were going to fire him, it would need to be to bring in and pay up for an established coach.  I don't know who that is. 

[Copernicus]

53 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

This is where we're heading already?   Throwing these excuses up for Saleh's performance?  After only 10 games, he might be the most SOJ HC in our glorious history.

No excuses, just that he is human, he is a husband and father and the reality that there is outside turmoil that would affect anyone's job performance including the HC of an NFL team. Not saying this is the reason he has been unsuccessful but could be a part of it. 

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

Perhaps we can hire a new coach and coordinators each and every year until we win a Super Bowl.... sign all of our Draft Picks to 1-year contracts. That should finally give the Jets the edge they need to become a winner. 

[Copernicus]

14 minutes ago, undertow said:

So some kid with a Youtube channel said Robert Salah is coaching horribly because he has contractor problems?  Is that what we are doing here? lol

Not what I said. If you had kids and a spouse with no home and were reduced to living out of a hotel could it affect your work? Especially if you were in a brand new position? 

[munchmemory]

30 minutes ago, rox said:

First uttered by Sir Alec after his performance as King Charles I in 1970's "Cromwell". 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 11/21/2021 at 6:45 PM, Matt39 said:

Kinda reminds me of the Cardinals season where they realized they hired a mistake. Saleh is not a HC and it's obvious. Depends on Woody's feel but right now I'd be shocked if he gets a second season.

Saleh only had more than glorified intern jobs on two teams: the ‘14-16 Jaguars and ‘17-20 49ers. From the Jaguars, how many position coach acquaintances do you really want for elevating to coordinator, and/or how many asst coaches to elevate to position coaches, if in 2021 they still hadn’t earned that promotion yet since 2016.

The 49ers? Aside from way too much mulligan-ness given to the team for being without an injured, just-decent QB (plus massively front-loading his cap hit into 2018 as SF did, to further mulligan that season, too), the better coaches from there want to stay where there’s a more established roster and more experienced + stable staff, unless going to the one HC interested in promoting them.

I went through the whole Jets’ main coaching staff in another post a week or so ago. It’s insane how many position coaches - never mind both coordinators and the HC himself - are all in their first full year in this capacity. IIRC among the three with 1+ full years’ experience in that same capacity includes the TE coach (on a team that didn’t have a TE worth mentioning). 

Given all the young players on the team, and the greater influx of rookies they’re going to add next year, this coaching staff is the blind leading the blind. Either Saleh needs to be fired or some position coaches need to be replaced with those with some history of success. I don’t see him firing either coordinator if he stays, no matter the results. Plus a problem it seems is Saleh barely knows anyone himself; it isn’t obvious that he’s well-regarded outside the LaFleur family; he’ll have just fired the predecessors after 1 season; and absent doing that the remaining guys don’t have a lot of other experienced coaches on the staff to turn to when they don’t have answers themselves. e.g. this thread itself highlights LaFleur scratching his head what to do when his desired/designed plans aren’t panning out.

It’s incredibly arrogant for a first time HC to fill his coaching staff with almost all first time coordinators & position coaches, knowing full well the team is at the start of an extreme youth movement. And if it isn’t arrogance, the only other option left is no one already established as good wanted to hitch his wagon to Saleh. 

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Saleh only had more than glorified intern jobs on two teams: the ‘14-16 Jaguars and ‘17-20 49ers. From the Jaguars, how many position coaches do you really want for elevating to coordinator, and/or how many asst coaches to elevate to position coaches, if in 2021 they still hadn’t earned that promotion yet since 2016.

The 49ers? Aside from way too much mulligan-ness given to the team for being without an injured, just-decent QB (plus massively front-loading his cap hit into 2018 as SF did, to further mulligan that season, too), the better coaches from there want to stay where there’s a more established roster and more experienced + stable staff, unless going to the one HC interested in promoting them.

I went through the whole Jets’ main coaching staff in another post a week or so ago. It’s insane how many position coaches - never mind both coordinators and the HC himself - are all in their first full year in this capacity. IIRC among the three with 1+ full years’ experience in that same capacity includes the TE coach (on a team that didn’t have a TE worth mentioning). 

Given all the young players on the team, and the greater influx of rookies they’re going to add next year, this coaching staff is the blind leading the blind. Either Saleh needs to be fired or some position coaches need to be replaced with those with some history of success. I don’t see him firing either coordinator if he stays, no matter the results. Plus a problem it seems is Saleh barely knows anyone himself; it isn’t obvious that he’s well-regarded outside the LaFleur family; he’ll have just fired the predecessors after 1 season; and absent doing that the remaining guys don’t have a lot of other experienced coaches on the staff to turn to when they don’t have answers themselves. e.g. this thread itself highlights LaFleur scratching his head what to do when his desired/designed plans aren’t panning out.

It’s incredibly arrogant for a first time HC to fill his coaching staff with almost all first time coordinators & position coaches, knowing full well the team is at the start of an extreme youth movement. And if it isn’t arrogance, the only other option left is no one already established as good wanted to hitch his wagon to Saleh. 

So what you're saying is we aren't winning the Super Bowl next year?????

[doitny]

3 minutes ago, varjet said:

 

If the Jets were going to fire him, it would need to be to bring in and pay up for an established coach.  I don't know who that is. 

i dont think there is one out there.

anyone " established" doesnt want to go to a rebuild. or to a place without the QB set yet.

Bill Parcells was the only one i could think of who would go somewhere like that when he could go to any team. 

but if Wilson plays well then we will start winning and Saleh will look better and we wont need a new HC.

[kmnj]

just because a person is new to the job does not mean they are the correct person for the job and time / patience will fix things-sometimes a new hire is just a bad hire and it becomes obvious fairly quick. The cardinals blew up their rebuild and started again fast once they knew things were bad. 

saleh is not proven and looks terrible out there 

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, ZachEY said:

We lead the league in snaps by rookies by a fairly substantial margin - can't find the most recent data - but it was about 200.  There's no reason to be excited by Saleh, but are we ever going to stop blaming the coaches - ever - and look at the actual team?

This is all really bad.  But, there's all but nothing from Macc's 5 drafts on the roster and Douglas's first draft thus far is uninspiring.  Add to that, Douglas isn't trying to fight for .500 football w/ stupid free agent signings, and you're left with a roster that's not very good.

Saleh isn't the reason for Jason Pinnock, and no amount of coaching is making this group good.  We're still a ways off.  While I've certainly lost my patience, there's still the objective reality that there's just no talent on this team.

Bryce Hall would be a CB2 on most other NFL teams. He’s currently about the fourth best player on the entire defense.

That tells you all you need to know.

Seriously, list the starting defenders and ask yourself if there is any reason this D should be better than the bottom 10 in the league.

I think Ashtyn Davis has the longest NFL tenure out of anyone who played in the secondary yesterday.

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Saleh only had more than glorified intern jobs on two teams: the ‘14-16 Jaguars and ‘17-20 49ers. From the Jaguars, how many position coaches do you really want for elevating to coordinator, and/or how many asst coaches to elevate to position coaches, if in 2021 they still hadn’t earned that promotion yet since 2016.

The 49ers? Aside from way too much mulligan-ness given to the team for being without an injured, just-decent QB (plus massively front-loading his cap hit into 2018 as SF did, to further mulligan that season, too), the better coaches from there want to stay where there’s a more established roster and more experienced + stable staff, unless going to the one HC interested in promoting them.

I went through the whole Jets’ main coaching staff in another post a week or so ago. It’s insane how many position coaches - never mind both coordinators and the HC himself - are all in their first full year in this capacity. IIRC among the three with 1+ full years’ experience in that same capacity includes the TE coach (on a team that didn’t have a TE worth mentioning). 

Given all the young players on the team, and the greater influx of rookies they’re going to add next year, this coaching staff is the blind leading the blind. Either Saleh needs to be fired or some position coaches need to be replaced with those with some history of success. I don’t see him firing either coordinator if he stays, no matter the results. Plus a problem it seems is Saleh barely knows anyone himself; it isn’t obvious that he’s well-regarded outside the LaFleur family; he’ll have just fired the predecessors after 1 season; and absent doing that the remaining guys don’t have a lot of other experienced coaches on the staff to turn to when they don’t have answers themselves. e.g. this thread itself highlights LaFleur scratching his head what to do when his desired/designed plans aren’t panning out.

It’s incredibly arrogant for a first time HC to fill his coaching staff with almost all first time coordinators & position coaches, knowing full well the team is at the start of an extreme youth movement. And if it isn’t arrogance, the only other option left is no one already established as good wanted to hitch his wagon to Saleh. 

This is a high school staff. Not even exaggerating. 

[Copernicus]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Saleh only had more than glorified intern jobs on two teams: the ‘14-16 Jaguars and ‘17-20 49ers. From the Jaguars, how many position coaches do you really want for elevating to coordinator, and/or how many asst coaches to elevate to position coaches, if in 2021 they still hadn’t earned that promotion yet since 2016.

The 49ers? Aside from way too much mulligan-ness given to the team for being without an injured, just-decent QB (plus massively front-loading his cap hit into 2018 as SF did, to further mulligan that season, too), the better coaches from there want to stay where there’s a more established roster and more experienced + stable staff, unless going to the one HC interested in promoting them.

I went through the whole Jets’ main coaching staff in another post a week or so ago. It’s insane how many position coaches - never mind both coordinators and the HC himself - are all in their first full year in this capacity. IIRC among the three with 1+ full years’ experience in that same capacity includes the TE coach (on a team that didn’t have a TE worth mentioning). 

Given all the young players on the team, and the greater influx of rookies they’re going to add next year, this coaching staff is the blind leading the blind. Either Saleh needs to be fired or some position coaches need to be replaced with those with some history of success. I don’t see him firing either coordinator if he stays, no matter the results. Plus a problem it seems is Saleh barely knows anyone himself; it isn’t obvious that he’s well-regarded outside the LaFleur family; he’ll have just fired the predecessors after 1 season; and absent doing that the remaining guys don’t have a lot of other experienced coaches on the staff to turn to when they don’t have answers themselves. e.g. this thread itself highlights LaFleur scratching his head what to do when his desired/designed plans aren’t panning out.

It’s incredibly arrogant for a first time HC to fill his coaching staff with almost all first time coordinators & position coaches, knowing full well the team is at the start of an extreme youth movement. And if it isn’t arrogance, the only other option left is no one already established as good wanted to hitch his wagon to Saleh. 

Well done SE. Your words definitely makes me think and rethink. Just some thoughts: The Saleh hiring was universally applauded by fans and media. He was considered the top rookie HC candidate for the past off season. There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. I just dont see Saleh ever coming off as arrogant. Do you? I see him trying to explain his thoughts and open (at least his words) to changing to make things better. Do you think that someone who was considered the top HC candidate would have such a personality flaw of over the top arrogance go undetected over multiple interviews? Even if this were truthful do you think that the top HC candidate would warrant no one wanting  to coach with him? Just doesnt add up to me. Your thoughts? 

[UntouchableCrew]

I'd go the opposite direction and say he's a lock to return.

He's clearly approached this as a long term thing from the beginning and Woody isn't going to pay three head coaches next year.

Even if we don't win another game (which strikes me as very unlikely) I think he's 100% back for 2022.

2023, which I thought he was pretty much guaranteed to be here for originally, feels far less certain.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'd go the opposite direction and say he's a lock to return.

He's clearly approached this as a long term thing from the beginning and Woody isn't going to pay three head coaches next year.

Even if we don't win another game (which strikes me as very unlikely) I think he's 100% back for 2022.

2023, which I thought he was pretty much guaranteed to be here for originally, feels far less certain.

This is where I am at. If the team is a disaster next year, I could see him and JD getting canned together at the end of the season. 

Anything before that feels entirely unrealistic. 

 

[jetstream23]

3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'd go the opposite direction and say he's a lock to return.

He's clearly approached this as a long term thing from the beginning and Woody isn't going to pay three head coaches next year.

Game.Set.Match

Saleh could be caught ****ing a bottle of Johnson & Johnson’s baby shampoo in the MetLife parking lot and he won’t be fired.

[peebag]

I think the better question is, "What's the yardstick in 2022 for retaining Saleh?"

My belief is he'll need to have a winning season to be retained AND that's going to be a hard task to accomplish.

[slats]

Bill Parcells won three games as a rookie head coach, Bill Walsh won two. It’s not exactly a job where you step in and succeed immediately on a regular basis. 
 
I fully understand the frustration, but he’s not going anywhere anytime soon. Saleh came in very well regarded. Every team with an opening interviewed him this year, except the Texans and that’s one of the reasons Watson is pissed off at them. The Jets usually sign the guy who couldn’t get the job they really wanted, or the guy that wouldn’t sniff a head coaching job if the Jets weren’t offering. This is a guy a few teams had near or at the top of their list. That doesn’t guarantee success by any means, but he’s absolutely, 100% gonna be the head next season barring a complete locker room revolt - which also isn’t happening. It’ll be Joe Douglas, Saleh, and Wilson at QB. Might as well get used to it. 

[Green DNA]

43 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

Not what I said. If you had kids and a spouse with no home and were reduced to living out of a hotel could it affect your work? Especially if you were in a brand new position? 

I would probably rent a house in the meantime rather than keep my family in a hotel room for six months.