Jump to content

Saleh is getting canned right?


Matt39
 Share

Recommended Posts

I don't think anyone is claiming this is a great roster, but Saleh said himself that the gap between NFL players is not that big, and a good coach should win with the players he has. His words, not mine.

A HC has needs to be able to do 2 things to win in the NFL:

1) Build a winning staff. The HC is not the mastermind of game plans in most cases, Bellicheck is the exception, not the norm. Its the Coordinators who do this. In addition, you need good teachers. HC again is not the teacher, the coordinators are. NFL systems are very different than college systems, and for certain positions, the technique varies and gets more complex. You need good coordinators, period.

2) Be a leader of about 50 extremely talented young men who have largely been told their entire life they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and lead the coaches and set the tone for the organization.

If you can't do both of those things, you cannot be a successful NFL coach, period.

As has been pointed out many times before, most eloquently by one SpermEdwards, Salehs staff is highly concerning.

I haven't seen anything that tells me he can be a good leader. A good leader is not afraid to hire people under them that are better than them in certain or all areas. They are confident enough in their ability to not fear someone stealing their thunder, they value success above all.  This was how I knew Rex would never, ever be a successful NFL Head coach, he was far too insecure and hired dolts.

Saleh will get another year, and Im not even saying he shouldnt, but I am highly skeptical as to whether or not he can ever be a good NFL coach.

Its a complete cop out extremely mentally lazy to simply give him a pass for talent, there are plenty of observable data points we have to evaluate Saleh, and a good HC always makes the talent look better than it is, no matter what level its at.

  • Upvote 3
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Copernicus said:

Well done SE. Your words definitely makes me think and rethink. Just some thoughts: The Saleh hiring was universally applauded by fans and media. He was considered the top rookie HC candidate for the past off season. There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. I just dont see Saleh ever coming off as arrogant. Do you? I see him trying to explain his thoughts and open (at least his words) to changing to make things better. Do you think that someone who was considered the top HC candidate would have such a personality flaw of over the top arrogance go undetected over multiple interviews? Even if this were truthful do you think that the top HC candidate would warrant no one wanting  to coach with him? Just doesnt add up to me. Your thoughts? 

I think with regard to my post, you're swapping in an outwardly arrogant personality with someone displaying acts of arrogance. 

A person can do something arrogant and have a braggart's or blowhard's arrogant personality.

A rookie HC, hiring:

  • two first full year coordinators (the DC had some brief action for half a year after the HC got fired, but had never established his own staff or anything, and the prior DC was still on the team as the HC anyway)
  • below them hiring position coaches mostly in their first years doing so
  • with the knowledge that this was a bad team about to get ultra-young/inexperienced all over because of all the extra picks in the next 2 drafts (and not exclusively extra comp picks, like one extra ultra-late 4th and three ultra-late 6ths like our 2014 comp picks). I mean doubling up in round 1 and more for two straight drafts, with the further knowledge they were either going to draft a rookie QB at #2, or trade down from there to acquire even more high draft picks. 

It is arrogant to think experience counts for so little, by overwhelmingly hiring people with so little experience, to teach players with little to no NFL experience themselves.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

I'll push back on QW a bit.  There's no doubt we haven't seen a difference maker in him yet, but I think he's better than "pretty good." 

He's also not getting a ton of snaps for some reason.  There seems to be an intentional routine with him and the entire D Line.  I knew Saleh liked to rotate guys on the D Line but I would have hoped we'd skew a bit more heavily to keeping the best guys on the field more often.

Amongst DTs Quinnen Williams is 5th in sacks but he's 31st in snaps.

 

 

 

Yesterday...

 

From a few weeks ago.

 

I think a holding penalty kept him from adding another sack to his stat sheet yesterday.

I saw PFF's grade yesterday, and I think it encapsulates QW pretty well.  Apparently, he's playing very well, and yet, doing just about nothing memorable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

There's no doubt we need a talent infusion on D but I can't support using all of the first 3-4 picks on D.  It all obviously depends on how the Draft falls and what the Jets do in FA, but I'd use one 1st on D and one 2nd on D, maybe a premier Edge rusher and a CB.  Again, this assumes the Jets do some things in FA at a position like LB to supplement the promising but unknown guys like Sherwood and Nasirildeen.

The Jets still need to address the O though.  If a guy like the Center Linderbaum is there in the 1st (after a trade down maybe?) it will be hard not to grab him.  We need to find out next great young Center.  We were spoiled with Nick Mangold who followed a HOF'er in Kevin Mawae.  It's time to get the anchor for the OLine.... a guy who will have a trickle down effect to both the left and right of him.

Unfortunately there don't seem to be many top TE talents in this Draft but that's another area I'd address no later than Day 2 if I'm the Jets.

your another guy into this center? i get the whole Mangold thing but nobody thats a good team uses 3 1st rd picks on the OL. 

thats a miss use of 1st rd picks.

i said this before maybe you missed it but here me out...

instead of taking Brick at #4,  TE Vernon Davis was there. now how much better would we be with him? remember Woody and Faneca were pretty good and they were FAs. Moore was a UDFA.  if we had Davis over Brick we could have had 2 rings by now.

i think the best way to build the team is uses those #1s at positions like that. you can get good enough OL in the 2nd are later rds. everybody else does it and wins with those lines. you want to build some wall around Wilson but defense always can find schemes to get to the QB. 

 

your right its all depends on what we do in FA but we tried that last year and everyone we got missed the season

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, doitny said:

your another guy into this center? i get the whole Mangold thing but nobody thats a good team uses 3 1st rd picks on the OL. 

thats a miss use of 1st rd picks.

i said this before maybe you missed it but here me out...

instead of taking Brick at #4,  TE Vernon Davis was there. now how much better would we be with him? remember Woody and Faneca were pretty good and they were FAs. Moore was a UDFA.  if we had Davis over Brick we could have had 2 rings by now.

i think the best way to build the team is uses those #1s at positions like that. you can get good enough OL in the 2nd are later rds. everybody else does it and wins with those lines. you want to build some wall around Wilson but defense always can find schemes to get to the QB. 

 

your right its all depends on what we do in FA but we tried that last year and everyone we got missed the season

 

 

That's a very understandable take... but in most cases it's because the those good teams haven't had the deficiencies on the OLine that the Jets have had.  I think the Jets have a decent OLine right now but that's because AVT is a standout OG and guys like both Moses and Fant are playing at high levels and performing better than most of us probably expected.  McGovern has been a good hold-the-fort guy at Center.

The problem on the OLine is a glaring one at RG.  My opinion is that the way to fix it and to upgrade C at the same time is by drafting a guy like Linderbaum.  Connor McGovern was graded as a better OG than Center when he was in Denver, and he'll be in the final year of a 3 year FA deal.  Drafting Linderbaum upgrades the C and we push McGovern to RG so that we can stop this nonsense of experimenting or tolerating guys like GVR, LDT, Feeney, Clark (if he ever sees the field) at RG.

The approach to RG has been throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.  Let's stop that and just buy a steak for dinner!  Linderbaum + McGovern is better than McGovern + GVR at two spots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

That's a very understandable take... but in most cases it's because the those good teams haven't had the deficiencies on the OLine that the Jets have had.  I think the Jets have a decent OLine right now but that's because AVT is a standout OG and guys like both Moses and Fant are playing at high levels and performing better than most of us probably expected.  McGovern has been a good hold-the-fort guy at Center.

The problem on the OLine is a glaring one at RG.  My opinion is that the way to fix it and to upgrade C at the same time is by drafting a guy like Linderbaum.  Connor McGovern was graded as a better OG than Center when he was in Denver, and he'll be in the final year of a 3 year FA deal.  Drafting Linderbaum upgrades the C and we push McGovern to RG so that we can stop this nonsense of experimenting or tolerating guys like GVR, LDT, Feeney, Clark (if he ever sees the field) at RG.

The approach to RG has been throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.  Let's stop that and just buy a steak for dinner!  Linderbaum + McGovern is better than McGovern + GVR at two spots.

Our offensive line is not that bad.  
 

The defense lacks any discernible talent in the secondary and at LB.  we can’t cover anyone.  Our DL players like QW don’t fit Saleh’s 4-3.  If Tua wasn’t an overhyped semi-bust he puts up a 45 spot on us yesterday 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

That's a very understandable take... but in most cases it's because the those good teams haven't had the deficiencies on the OLine that the Jets have had.  I think the Jets have a decent OLine right now but that's because AVT is a standout OG and guys like both Moses and Fant are playing at high levels and performing better than most of us probably expected.  McGovern has been a good hold-the-fort guy at Center.

The problem on the OLine is a glaring one at RG.  My opinion is that the way to fix it and to upgrade C at the same time is by drafting a guy like Linderbaum.  Connor McGovern was graded as a better OG than Center when he was in Denver, and he'll be in the final year of a 3 year FA deal.  Drafting Linderbaum upgrades the C and we push McGovern to RG so that we can stop this nonsense of experimenting or tolerating guys like GVR, LDT, Feeney, Clark (if he ever sees the field) at RG.

The approach to RG has been throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.  Let's stop that and just buy a steak for dinner!  Linderbaum + McGovern is better than McGovern + GVR at two spots.

It’s not that. It’s what far more valuable position are you passing on by burining a top-half 1st round pick on a friggin’ center, which is arguably the least-important, least-valued positoin on the OL. 

Say you’re right and he is an upgrade over McGovern (a stance I’m more than prepared to accept). Is that upgrade a more formidable one than adding an elite WR, or edge or DB or a much-needed LB? Not even close. 

Even yesterday, most of the super-hurry pass rushes came against unblocked blitzers from the outside, not a NT that pushed his way past McGovern. 

Count me in as 100% not on board with taking a center in round 1 unless the team trades way down into the 20s at the highest (and recoup at least one more 1st rounder in return).  Even then I’m not convinced it’s the most needle-moving position the team could use the pick to upgrade. 

Teams don’t win super bowls because of 1st round centers they drafted.

This OL is better on balance - at least on paper - than the one that KC rode to winning their last 10+ games in a row to get to another Super Bowl last year, seeing how they had just 1 starting tackle for most of the season, and backup-level starters at center and both guard positions. That’s 4 backup-level OLmen (which became 5 when Fisher went down in the playoffs); the Jets have had 1 this season and scapegoated that RG position as the reason for far too many woes.

  • Upvote 2
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, munchmemory said:

Massive difference is that all those franchises had ownership who were knowledgeable, had competence, and actually cared about winning over just accepting the annual media money from the NFL.

Funny how we imagine things after time

Pitt was a bottom of the league team for 40 years + before Knoll.  Under Rooney.  Hell, they cut Johnny Unitas.  

The Giants, were forced, under the threat of taking the team away from the Mara's to hire George Young who brought in Parcells.  Now the Giants had knowledgeable owners, were competent and cared?  Fans boycotted the Giants burning their tickets.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I guess you havent heard the news, Saleh is great, the players are the only problem, and if Saleh left the Jets he would do great

And more news, he doesnt come close to saying this anywhere in his statement.  

Oh and hes 100% right.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It’s not that. It’s what far more valuable position are you passing on by burining a top-half 1st round pick on a friggin’ center, which is arguably the least-important, least-valued positoin on the OL. 

Say you’re right and he is an upgrade over McGovern (a stance I’m more than prepared to accept). Is that upgrade a more formidable one than adding an elite WR, or edge or DB or a much-needed LB? Not even close. 

Even yesterday, most of the super-hurry pass rushes came against unblocked blitzers from the outside, not a NT that pushed his way past McGovern. 

Count me in as 100% not on board with taking a center in round 1 unless the team trades way down into the 20s at the highest (and recoup at least one more 1st rounder in return).  Even then I’m not convinced it’s the most needle-moving position the team could use the pick to upgrade. 

Teams don’t win super bowls because of 1st round centers they drafted.

This OL is better on balance - at least on paper - than the one that KC rode to winning their last 10+ games in a row to get to another Super Bowl last year, seeing how they had just 1 starting tackle for most of the season, and backup-level starters at center and both guard positions. That’s 4 backup-level OLmen (which became 5 when Fisher went down in the playoffs); the Jets have had 1 this season and scapegoated that RG position as the reason for far too many woes.

Theres an over infatuation with using a top 1st on C here.  As you correctly point out, the least important spot on the OL.  LB, Edge, WR all over a C every time.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Funny how we imagine things after time

Pitt was a bottom of the league team for 40 years + before Knoll.  Under Rooney.  Hell, they cut Johnny Unitas.  

The Giants, were forced, under the threat of taking the team away from the Mara's to hire George Young who brought in Parcells.  Now the Giants had knowledgeable owners, were competent and cared?  Fans boycotted the Giants burning their tickets.  

Good post.  I was commenting on the eras of the HCs that the OP referenced.  At least from that perspective, I don't think you can compare them to Woody's effort.

Of course all franchises have had their awful times.  Maybe us more than most others unfortunately.  And I recall vividly the "Good bye Allie" chants as well as the overall frustration my Giant fan friends had for their team.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Good post.  I was commenting on the eras of the HCs that the OP referenced.  At least from that perspective, I don't think you can compare them to Woody's effort.

Of course all franchises have had their awful times.  Maybe us more than most others unfortunately.  And I recall vividly the "Good bye Allie" chants as well as the overall frustration my Giant fan friends had for their team.

I always ask, how is anyone prepped to be a NFL owner?  If you hit on your hires you succeed.  Woodys first 10+ years were really good, people dont remember something like 7 playoff years in 10.  Now hes an idiot.  Just the way it is today, boo and blame owners.  

We havent been anywhere close to as bad as the Steelers were before Noll.  Giants went through a bad stretch too, just not Steeler like

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I always ask, how is anyone prepped to be a NFL owner?  If you hit on your hires you succeed.  Woodys first 10+ years were really good, people dont remember something like 7 playoff years in 10.  Now hes an idiot.  Just the way it is today, boo and blame owners.  

We havent been anywhere close to as bad as the Steelers were before Noll.  Giants went through a bad stretch too, just not Steeler like

I went to PSU as a grad student and had a bunch of friends who were Steelers fans (Eagles, too).  I'd bring up the "old days" too which would not make them very happy.  lol   Although they hit the friggin' lottery with Noll, Bradshaw, Lambert, Mean Joe and a ton of other legendary players.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And more news, he doesnt come close to saying this anywhere in his statement.  

Oh and hes 100% right.  

I never said Saleh made that statement, but some really, really, super duper, smart fans on this message board did.

Maybe hes right, maybe hes not. But he (Saleh) is the one who said that the gap between talent in the NFL is not that big, and coaching is the difference.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

I went to PSU as a grad student and had a bunch of friends who were Steelers fans (Eagles, too).  I'd bring up the "old days" too which would not make them very happy.  lol   Although they hit the friggin' lottery with Noll, Bradshaw, Lambert, Mean Joe and a ton of other legendary players.

That 1977 draft, their 1st three picks were Swann, Lambert and Stallworth, then added Webster with their 5th pick.  All 4 HOF players!  

In 4 straight drafts they picked 9 HOF players in total.  9

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That 1977 draft, their 1st three picks were Swann, Lambert and Stallworth, then added Webster with their 5th pick.  All 4 HOF players!  

In 4 straight drafts they picked 9 HOF players in total.  9

 

That's beyond crazy.   Talk about spoiled fans.   We'd kill for a fraction of their draft picks.

  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Gen X Jet said:

I think what irritates Jets fans the most about this guy is he's made the one area of Jets football that was somewhat competent since Parcells left (Defense) a laughing stock.  It's really inexcusable.

 

 

He hasn’t made it that way. He was given a group of players low on talent and experience. Everyone seemed to understand at the outset this year would be tough, but now that it is, the sky is falling. Cool out. Half of you are just pissed about Mike White. As for me, I’m glad we have Zach, Mike White, JoE Flacco, and Saleh. Better days ahead. Believe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/22/2021 at 4:32 PM, Joe W. Namath said:

HHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHA.  It was a nice way of saying, "Jet fans are morons and cant understand a simple rebuild".  Love this coach!

The GM and HC of every crappy team in the NFL were hired to rebuild a crappy team.  The method is the same for every crappy team.  Better draft picks and lowering their overall salary cap to unload players to replace them at some point in the future.  It's not a plan is exactly how the NFL as a league is designed. 

For Saleh to actually say it like the fans are morons simply makes him a self absorbed tool.  

This is a guy who hired a human being to design the D when from his perspective he should have hired a monkey.  

 

  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...