How early is too early for Tyler Linderbaum?

[UntouchableCrew]

Tyler Linderbaum is, IMO, exactly what this Jets offensive line needs.

He's a smart, physical, athletic stud at center, a former wrestler (who pinned Tristan Wirfs!) who will bring the whole thing together and raise the whole unit. I get that people don't want to use another first on the offensive line -- but he's the perfect pick to raise the level of the whole unit and lead to having a top tier line that pays dividends across the whole offense.

We're likely to have two top ten picks -- depending on what happens with the Seahawks that is, but the blitz boi trade is looking good for us.

Question is, would it be crazy to spend a pick that high on a center? Or do we just pull the trigger and do it?

Sound off, JN.

[Rhg1084]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Tyler Linderbaum is, IMO, exactly what this Jets offensive line needs.

He's a smart, physical, athletic stud at center, a former wrestler (who pinned Tristan Wirfs!) who will bring the whole thing together and raise the whole unit. I get that people don't want to use another first on the offensive line -- but he's the perfect pick to raise the level of the whole unit and lead to having a top tier line that pays dividends across the whole offense.

We're likely to have two top ten picks -- depending on what happens with the Seahawks that is, but the blitz boi trade is looking good for us.

Question is, would it be crazy to spend a pick that high on a center? Or do we just pull the trigger and do it?

Sound off, JN.

Hes good but honestly the offensive line has been fine, and McGovern believe or not has been very good at center. Plus he’s under contract next year as well. I think Douglas should go defense with his top two picks. An elite edge and corner would be perfect. We can’t burn a top 10 pick on a center 

[Sonny Werblin]

I am looking for the Jets to solve RG and C at the draft, so it is a combination question. Linderbaum and who and when for RG? I can see the Jets picking Kenyon Green for RG with a first round pick and then following up with a guy like Alec Lindstrom for C at the top of Round 3.  Then we would have the two top Gs in the 2021 and 2022 draft bookending the 2nd (or 3rd) best C in the 2022 draft.

[Barry McCockinner]

Love Linderbaum and think we desperately need to draft a C. Top 10 seems too early for a C though. 

I'd try to trade down later in the first to grab him if possible. 

[derp]

I think you can build a running game around the unique things Linderbaum can do movement wise and that makes things a little more difficult for opposing teams to prepare for. Plus you get good pass protection, leadership, and toughness.

And historically centers who go early have insanely high hit rates - which is important because the Jets really need to add difference makers. Linderbaum looks like a difference maker and a really high probability of hitting. No issue whatsoever taking him with Seattle's pick.

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, derp said:

I think you can build a running game around the unique things Linderbaum can do movement wise and that makes things a little more difficult for opposing teams to prepare for. Plus you get good pass protection, leadership, and toughness.

And historically centers who go early have insanely high hit rates - which is important because the Jets really need to add difference makers. Linderbaum looks like a difference maker and a really high probability of hitting. No issue whatsoever taking him with Seattle's pick.

reminiscent of how the jets used Mawae who at the time was very unique at the Center position because of his athleticism.  They were routinely able to pull him on plays where other centers didnt have the athleticism to get out on the edge.  

Linderbaum actually has some mawae in him,  Tough as nails, smart, excellent movement skills, but probably considered slightly undersized.  They're actually very similar in size mawae was 6'4 289 where Linderbaum is listed as 6'3 291.  its an interesting comparison. 

By contrast mangold was 6'3 306

 

[BurntDice]

By my count there have been 0 count ‘em 0 centers taken top 15 over the past 25 years and only 1 taken top 20 (18). Centers generally get mocked much higher by fans then what actually happens in the draft. I’d be cool with him in the 20 range. I’d rather have ekwanu though. 

[BurntDice]

2 hours ago, derp said:

I think you can build a running game around the unique things Linderbaum can do movement wise and that makes things a little more difficult for opposing teams to prepare for. Plus you get good pass protection, leadership, and toughness.

And historically centers who go early have insanely high hit rates - which is important because the Jets really need to add difference makers. Linderbaum looks like a difference maker and a really high probability of hitting. No issue whatsoever taking him with Seattle's pick.

The highest center ever taken in Bradbury has been a bust so far. 

[derp]

8 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

The highest center ever taken in Bradbury has been a bust so far. 

One Pouncey brother was drafted the same spot as Bradbury, the other was drafted higher, so he’s not the highest center ever taken. Not to mention centers went even higher back in the day. And I said insanely high hit rates, not 100% hit rates. One guy who’s disappointed so far doesn’t change that.

[BurntDice]

1 hour ago, derp said:

One Pouncey brother was drafted the same spot as Bradbury, the other was drafted higher, so he’s not the highest center ever taken. Not to mention centers went even higher back in the day. And I said insanely high hit rates, not 100% hit rates. One guy who’s disappointed so far doesn’t change that.

So only 1 center was drafted higher than 18 as as you said they were valued higher before. Linderbaum is also on the small side and teams who run inside zone or man won’t likely draft him because he doesn’t fit. That cuts out over half the teams. On top of that the teams who he does fit all don’t need a center nonetheless a 1st round center. 

[derp]

25 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

So only 1 center was drafted higher than 18 as as you said they were valued higher before. Linderbaum is also on the small side and teams who run inside zone or man won’t likely draft him because he doesn’t fit. That cuts out over half the teams. 

Those are legitimate reasons he might fall. He happens to be an outstanding fit in the scheme the Jets run, and though there are no guarantees in the draft the position he plays has a very high hit rate.

It's an interesting discussion. I'd have no problem with him at the Seattle pick if it ends up around ten for the reasons I expressed - and in part because this draft is pretty weak at the top. If you don't like him that high I think that's a perfectly valid perspective.

[BurntDice]

20 minutes ago, derp said:

Those are legitimate reasons he might fall. He happens to be an outstanding fit in the scheme the Jets run, and though there are no guarantees in the draft the position he plays has a very high hit rate.

It's an interesting discussion. I'd have no problem with him at the Seattle pick if it ends up around ten for the reasons I expressed - and in part because this draft is pretty weak at the top. If you don't like him that high I think that's a perfectly valid perspective.

I’m pretty high on trading down because I want ekwonu (who I like more than linderbaum)/linderbaum AND dean/hill/Hamilton (hopefully he falls due to injury) 

[derp]

9 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

I’m pretty high on trading down because I want ekwonu (who I like more than linderbaum)/linderbaum AND dean/hill/Hamilton (hopefully he falls due to injury) 

It's so early in the process - Dane Brugler had Ekwonu ranked 5 overall in his recent update for what it's worth. Very possible he's off the board by the time the Seattle pick rolls up!

[BurntDice]

Just now, derp said:

It's so early in the process - Dane Brugler had Ekwonu ranked 5 overall in his recent update for what it's worth. Very possible he's off the board by the time the Seattle pick rolls up!

Hell id take him at the SEA pick. Dude is going to be an absolute monster 

[Peace Frog]

Today. 

If it were legal. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

You guys remeber last year when Creed Humphreys was getting mocked into the 8-15 range? The same may happen with Linderbaum. There's guy from NC State who the Vikings selected, looked just as good or better blocking outside zone and he went 18th. 

This is something we shouldn't get carried away with and wanting to draft him top 16. If we feel the asking price is reasonable to trade our 2nd rounder back into the mid to late 20's of the 1st round I would approve of doing so. But in no circumstance would I use the Seattle pick.

[kdels62]

19 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

You guys remeber last year when Creed Humphreys was getting mocked into the 8-15 range? The same may happen with Linderbaum. There's guy from NC State who the Vikings selected, looked just as good or better blocking outside zone and he went 18th. 

This is something we shouldn't get carried away with and wanting to draft him top 16. If we feel the asking price is reasonable to trade our 2nd rounder back into the mid to late 20's of the 1st round I would approve of doing so. But in no circumstance would I use the Seattle pick.

No good source was mocking Humphrey that early. He was generally placed in the 40-50s of most big boards. Garrett Bradbury went 18 and was no where near the prospect Linderbaum is. Linderbaum is being placed in the top 10 of most big boards and his tape has been consistent for 3 seasons. He's in a different stratosphere of IOL prospect in terms of predraft hype than Bradbury or Humphrey. He might drop but I doubt he goes far beyond 15. 

[Barry McCockinner]

Speaking of Creed Humphrey

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-15-highest-graded-nfl-rookies-week-10-2021

 

 

[Rhg1084]

On 11/22/2021 at 3:51 PM, BurntDice said:

By my count there have been 0 count ‘em 0 centers taken top 15 over the past 25 years and only 1 taken top 20 (18). Centers generally get mocked much higher by fans then what actually happens in the draft. I’d be cool with him in the 20 range. I’d rather have ekwanu though. 

Jets fans love the idea of drafting this kid but I think there’s a 0% chance we actually do with one of our first 2 picks. Pretty much exactly what you said, centers don’t get drafted high. And the Jets need a lot of help on defense. Plus, center is currently not a need for this team right now as we have one who is playing very well and under contract for next year. I’d be very surprised if the Jets draft Linderbaum. 

[Claymation]

I believe Ikem Ekwonu will move to guard he would be a nice addition to the interior, a draft of Hutchinson and Ekwonu would be a nice start of the draft and ensuring that this team can stop the run, and run the ball.

[David Harris]

I’d love the kid but I wouldn’t ever consider drafting him over a premium position like Edge, CB, OT if we actually end up with 2 top 10 picks

[undertow]

One of the things people aren't talking about enough is Mcgoverns play as of late...he seems to be back to old form and JD sticking with him has turned out to be a great decision.  It really makes no sense anymore to take a center high in the draft Mcgovern is under contract and is only 29...not only do centers not go that high but I view the position pretty low on the list of needs right now.

[BCJet]

8 hours ago, David Harris said:

I’d love the kid but I wouldn’t ever consider drafting him over a premium position like Edge, CB, OT if we actually end up with 2 top 10 picks

How many OTs can we play at one time?  Fant hasnt allowed a sack, is under contract at a team friendly number and we just used a top 10 pick on Becton.

JD found an elite CB already in Hall, and I would argue that CB is no longer a premium position with the way the game is now called penalty wise, so outside of Edge we dont need to fill these so-called premium positions.  

[derp]

8 hours ago, undertow said:

One of the things people aren't talking about enough is Mcgoverns play as of late...he seems to be back to old form and JD sticking with him has turned out to be a great decision.  It really makes no sense anymore to take a center high in the draft Mcgovern is under contract and is only 29...not only do centers not go that high but I view the position pretty low on the list of needs right now.

With McGovern arguably a better guard than a center, the free agent guard market drying up already with Wyatt Teller getting extended, and McGovern under contract for only one more year, Linderbaum could allow the team to upgrade two positions and solidify the long-term center situation. Douglas seems to like going into the draft with flexibility and the opportunity to add a center and kick McGovern to guard or just draft a guard seems like something he’d do.

I do agree though it’s less of a need than it was and there are good arguments against taking him. Definitely less of a clear cut need than a year ago.

[undertow]

1 hour ago, derp said:

With McGovern arguably a better guard than a center, the free agent guard market drying up already with Wyatt Teller getting extended, and McGovern under contract for only one more year, Linderbaum could allow the team to upgrade two positions and solidify the long-term center situation. Douglas seems to like going into the draft with flexibility and the opportunity to add a center and kick McGovern to guard or just draft a guard seems like something he’d do.

I do agree though it’s less of a need than it was and there are good arguments against taking him. Definitely less of a clear cut need than a year ago.

I mean I wouldn't complain about drafting him and kicking Mcgovern to right guard I just think because of his poor play last year while injured the fanbase is completely underrating Mcgovern....He's currently the 6th rated center by PFF and the year before he got here he was in the top 10....That's a really good player not a jag like people continue to say.

[derp]

49 minutes ago, undertow said:

I mean I wouldn't complain about drafting him and kicking Mcgovern to right guard I just think because of his poor play last year while injured the fanbase is completely underrating Mcgovern....He's currently the 6th rated center by PFF and the year before he got here he was in the top 10....That's a really good player not a jag like people continue to say.

Yeah that’s fair. I think the big issues are RG and center after McGovern expires. I do think there’s a decent chance they’ll draft a center this year since Douglas doesn’t seem to like signing older FA’s for multiple years or knowing he’s going to go into FA with a hole. It’s probably easier to do Linderbaum, have McGovern play guard, and draft a guard in the fourth round than address guard and find a replacement center in the mid-rounds but he could also go out and sign a FA guard and render all that moot.

[David Harris]

3 hours ago, BCJet said:

How many OTs can we play at one time?  Fant hasnt allowed a sack, is under contract at a team friendly number and we just used a top 10 pick on Becton.

JD found an elite CB already in Hall, and I would argue that CB is no longer a premium position with the way the game is now called penalty wise, so outside of Edge we dont need to fill these so-called premium positions.  

I fan is still a stopgap the way I see it. He is 30 with when your left on his contract. He is a very good pass blocker on the left side but hasn’t been as good on the right side which is where I think he will play when Mekhi comes back.  He’s also a poor run blocker on both sides.

Hall is not “elite“ yet.  Echols I like in the rotation but has graded poorly. CB is an extremely important position. 
 

Agree to disagree.  I love Linderbaum but I’m taking an edge, CB, OT over that position in the top 10

[kdels62]

13 minutes ago, David Harris said:

I fan is still a stopgap the way I see it. He is 30 with when your left on his contract. He is a very good pass blocker on the left side but hasn’t been as good on the right side which is where I think he will play when Mekhi comes back.  He’s also a poor run blocker on both sides.

Hall is not “elite“ yet.  Echols I like in the rotation but has graded poorly. CB is an extremely important position. 
 

Agree to disagree.  I love Linderbaum but I’m taking an edge, CB, OT over that position in the top 10

Only CB in that range is Stingley and he’s not worth the risk.

[David Harris]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Only CB in that range is Stingley and he’s not worth the risk.

Why not? Because the injury- I believe that should fully heal and he looks like Jalen Ramsey when healthy. 
 

Booth Jr also looks like a shutdown corner to consider with Seattle’s pick. 
 

remember how good Nick Mangold was? Well IMO it was a bad trade getting Nick, heresy I know.  John Abraham was much more valuable, a very good pass rusher with some baggage is better to have than an all time center.  I’m taking Hutchinson and maybe Karlaftis if he measures and tests well over a Center.  
 

Again, not a slight against Linderbaum who’d I’d love to have, just not over a pass rusher, CB or OT. 
 

Speaking of OT’s, high end guys almost never become available in FA.  You have to draft your own and lock them up.  Evan Neal or Ikwonu over Linderbaum IMO.

[kdels62]

6 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Why not? Because the injury- I believe that should fully heal and he looks like Jalen Ramsey when healthy. 
 

Booth Jr also looks like a shutdown corner to consider with Seattle’s pick. 
 

remember how good Nick Mangold was? Well IMO it was a bad trade getting Nick, heresy I know.  John Abraham was much more valuable, a very good pass rusher with some baggage is better to have than an all time center.  I’m taking Hutchinson and maybe Karlaftis if he measures and tests well over a Center.  
 

Again, not a slight against Linderbaum who’d I’d love to have, just not over a pass rusher, CB or OT. 
 

Speaking of OT’s, high end guys almost never become available in FA.  You have to draft your own and lock them up.  Evan Neal or Ikwonu over Linderbaum IMO.

Because Stingley was only great in 1 season and that was 2 years ago. He was injured and inconsistent last year and more injured and inconsistent this year. He has the tools and yet all those tools got him cooked by Devonta Smith and against UCLA this year. I’d rather look to the next tier. 

Booth is not a top 10 pick. I like him but it’d be crazy to take him that early. And here’s the thing McCreary, McDuffie, Gardner Emerson, Elam, and that kid from Baylor who’s name I can’t remember are all similarly tiered players. That’s 7 guys all in the same class and of similar caliber. CB won’t be addressed early because it doesn’t have to be. 

As for Edge, there’s 1 prospect that’s clear cut. I’m a big Karlaftis fan and I think he’ll go top 10 but man Jermaine Johnson, or Arnold Ebekitie at the top of round 2 are almost as good prospects at a much lower cost. I’d take Karlaftis with one of the top 10 picks tho and be very happy about it.

As for OT, I just can’t see JD drafting 2 tackles in 3 years since if they both pan out you’re looking at $40 million in cap space to keep them. The Ravens just traded away Orlando Brown to avoid paying that kind of money to their tackles. I expect him to try and hit pay dirt with a young guy to replace Fant in the future. 

It’s other positions’ depth and the certainty certainty element that pushes Linderbaum up since he’s not just the only first round C in the draft, he’s the closest thing to a sure fire pro bowler in this draft.

[sec101row23]

43 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Because Stingley was only great in 1 season and that was 2 years ago. He was injured and inconsistent last year and more injured and inconsistent this year. He has the tools and yet all those tools got him cooked by Devonta Smith and against UCLA this year. I’d rather look to the next tier. 

Booth is not a top 10 pick. I like him but it’d be crazy to take him that early. And here’s the thing McCreary, McDuffie, Gardner Emerson, Elam, and that kid from Baylor who’s name I can’t remember are all similarly tiered players. That’s 7 guys all in the same class and of similar caliber. CB won’t be addressed early because it doesn’t have to be. 

As for Edge, there’s 1 prospect that’s clear cut. I’m a big Karlaftis fan and I think he’ll go top 10 but man Jermaine Johnson, or Arnold Ebekitie at the top of round 2 are almost as good prospects at a much lower cost. I’d take Karlaftis with one of the top 10 picks tho and be very happy about it.

As for OT, I just can’t see JD drafting 2 tackles in 3 years since if they both pan out you’re looking at $40 million in cap space to keep them. The Ravens just traded away Orlando Brown to avoid paying that kind of money to their tackles. I expect him to try and hit pay dirt with a young guy to replace Fant in the future. 

It’s other positions’ depth and the certainty certainty element that pushes Linderbaum up since he’s not just the only first round C in the draft, he’s the closest thing to a sure fire pro bowler in this draft.

I do love Gardner though.  
 

 

[kdels62]

17 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I do love Gardner though.  
 

 

Love “Sauce” Gardner. I think he’s the true best CB in this draft. 

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Love “Sauce” Gardner. I think he’s the true best CB in this draft. 

I think he could be.  For his size, he has tremendous agility and athleticism.  He’s going to test well too.   He knows how to play the position.   If you paired him with Hall and had MC2 in the slot, that’s a really good group of CBs, and since Saleh doesn’t “travel” CBs, you have two nice bookends with length.  

[kdels62]

The Jeta suck at short yardage. Look what push this kid gets.

[HawkeyeJet]