How early is too early for Tyler Linderbaum?

[BurntDice]

50 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

A 10 year pro bowl player is always good vs an oft injured guy.  I agree about pass rusher being a higher value but abraham simply did not play enough and Dbrick and mangold were the foundation of the teams we last had success with.

Of course i am biased towards oline.  I think a great oline covers up a lot of other ills on a team.  I do not want an okay oline, i want one of the best in the league.

 

Sure has worked out for the cowboys….

[Beerfish]

3 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Sure has worked out for the cowboys….

It made dak prescott a factor and a lot of money, it has made indy and tennessee actual contenders,   The last time the jets were any kind of a factor they had a dominant oline.

Tampa won last year because they had a great oline and kc did not.

I'll happily stand by my comments.

[BurntDice]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

It made dak prescott a factor and a lot of money, it has made indy and tennessee actual contenders,   The last time the jets were any kind of a factor they had a dominant oline.

Tampa won last year because they had a great oline and kc did not.

I'll happily stand by my comments.

The jets were good because of their defense. The cowboys don’t beat any good teams and haven’t gone past the divisional round since 1995. The jets have been more successful than they have in that time span. The titans have been pretty good, but they routinely have a good defense, which the jets have the worst in the league. The offensive line in Tampa is not why they are successful. Brady has always made is lines look better than they are because he gets the ball out at an insanely fast rate. They also have great wrs which create separation quickly. 

[TheMo]

14 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Sure has worked out for the cowboys….

This is akin to finding a nonsmoker who gets lung cancer and going "well not smoking sure has worked out for him...". Not to mention the fact that they lost multiple players to injury which muddies that example. Get a good OL and build around that. Easier than shooting in the dark for a QB that overcome the suck that is our team. 

[TheMo]

2 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

The jets were good because of their defense. The cowboys don’t beat any good teams and haven’t gone past the divisional round since 1995. The jets have been more successful than they have in that time span. The titans have been pretty good, but they routinely have a good defense, which the jets have the worst in the league. 

The 2009-2010 Jets were driven by two things the OL and the defense. So you're not wrong but ignoring the OL is crazy in my mind. Mark Sanchez sinks those teams if you're not obliterating 8 man boxes with just those five dudes. 

[BurntDice]

14 minutes ago, TheMo said:

This is akin to finding a nonsmoker who gets lung cancer and going "well not smoking sure has worked out for him...". Not to mention the fact that they lost multiple players to injury which muddies that example. Get a good OL and build around that. Easier than shooting in the dark for a QB that overcome the suck that is our team. 

Actually no, they are the only team I can think of who invested very heavily into their OL with high draft picks. It hasn’t worked out for them and if they all play well then within 4 years you are paying them an insane amount of money and severely handicapping the rest of the team. When you have the worst defense in the league and a top 10 center it makes 0 sense to draft a center in the top 15 picks. Especially when the offensive line has been playing fine. Evident by being the offense with the most yards in the league these past few weeks. 

[David Harris]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

A 10 year pro bowl player is always good vs an oft injured guy.  I agree about pass rusher being a higher value but abraham simply did not play enough and Dbrick and mangold were the foundation of the teams we last had success with.

Of course i am biased towards oline.  I think a great oline covers up a lot of other ills on a team.  I do not want an okay oline, i want one of the best in the league.

 

Part of me would be secretly happy to draft Linderbaum because I agree, just want a dominant WALL at all 5 positions but I know the smarter thing to do would get an elite edge prospect if available 

[BurntDice]

29 minutes ago, TheMo said:

The 2009-2010 Jets were driven by two things the OL and the defense. So you're not wrong but ignoring the OL is crazy in my mind. Mark Sanchez sinks those teams if you're not obliterating 8 man boxes with just those five dudes. 

The league has changed a lot in these past 12 years. It’s a much more pass happy league and the rules have changed favoring passing. You don’t need the #1 ol in the league to have a successful passing attack. Having a Good ol  helps (which we have). The key is to have really good weapons and qb. Fast separation is key in this new nfl. Which means…that the OL don’t need to hold their blocks for as long. 

[TheMo]

1 hour ago, BurntDice said:

The league has changed a lot in these past 12 years. It’s a much more pass happy league and the rules have changed favoring passing. You don’t need the #1 ol in the league to have a successful passing attack. Having a Good ol  helps (which we have). The key is to have really good weapons and qb. Fast separation is key in this new nfl. Which means…that the OL don’t need to hold their blocks for as long. 

Point well taken. Maybe it's Mac PTSD. Hoping Becton comes back and shows promise. 

[BurntDice]

21 minutes ago, TheMo said:

Point well taken. Maybe it's Mac PTSD. Hoping Becton comes back and shows promise. 

I totally feel you man. The OL was complete trash under mac and he neglected them his entire time here joe d was forced to draft OL high his first 2 years because the position group was a barren wasteland. They are playing well this year. Zach has just been very poor and holds on to the ball for too long. If we can get a TE and #2 or #1 wr this offense will be looking great. The defense however needs a ton of help. The lbs are a disaster and can’t cover anyone, need at least 2.  We need at least 1 safety, an outside corner, another edge.  He had his work cut out for him coming to this team.

[Rhg1084]

 

[TheMo]

16 hours ago, BurntDice said:

I totally feel you man. The OL was complete trash under mac and he neglected them his entire time here joe d was forced to draft OL high his first 2 years because the position group was a barren wasteland. They are playing well this year. Zach has just been very poor and holds on to the ball for too long. If we can get a TE and #2 or #1 wr this offense will be looking great. The defense however needs a ton of help. The lbs are a disaster and can’t cover anyone, need at least 2.  We need at least 1 safety, an outside corner, another edge.  He had his work cut out for him coming to this team.

I think if Becton comes back strong I'll feel better about the whole thing. I really like linderbaum but agree that getting a game changer on the defensive line is a huge need to. 

[Barry McCockinner]

4 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

 

This guy can move to RG where he's better. Linderbaum is going to be a stud.

[Rhg1084]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This guy can move to RG where he's better. Linderbaum is going to be a stud.

The RG we got from KC has been good, if Douglas does draft another o lineman round 1 it’ll be a tackle

[Barry McCockinner]

36 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

The RG we got from KC has been good, if Douglas does draft another o lineman round 1 it’ll be a tackle

He's a 30 year old fringe roster type player. Yea he's better than Van Rotten, but that's not saying much at all. McG is OK.

Build a dominant o-line and you'll build a contender. Linderbaum can be a stud.

[BurntDice]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

He's a 30 year old fringe roster type player. Yea he's better than Van Rotten, but that's not saying much at all. McG is OK.

Build a dominant o-line and you'll build a contender. Linderbaum can be a stud.

Your mindset is from 20-10 years ago. The nfl has changed a lot since then. It revolves around WRs getting open fast and delivering them the ball for YAC. The OL needs to hold the blocks for much less time now.   

look at how the defenders have changed in this time span. No longer do you really see lbs like David Harris big dudes who aren’t good in coverage, but can bulldoze their way to the LOS to stop the run. It’s smaller quicker guys who can cover well. The same with DL. They are much more athletic nowadays because they need to get to the qb at a faster rate because the ball gets out faster. 

mcgovern is also more than “OK” he’s currently a top 10 center and was also one in Denver where he played in the same system. 

[Barton]

Taking a center in the top 7 picks is just too damn high. And I like this kid from Iowa.

Now if they trade down with 1 of those 1st rd picks and can get him 12-25 in that range, sure. 

[Greensleeves]

9 hours ago, Barton said:

Taking a center in the top 7 picks is just too damn high. And I like this kid from Iowa.

Now if they trade down with 1 of those 1st rd picks and can get him 12-25 in that range, sure. 

Imagine taking Stingley and Hutchinson and then using our 2 second round picks to move up to take Linderbaum. That's what I would try and do. We need elite players and we have a ton of young guys already. We can then go LB and safety in 3rd and beyond. 

[hawk]

On 11/22/2021 at 11:59 AM, Rhg1084 said:

Hes good but honestly the offensive line has been fine, and McGovern believe or not has been very good at center. Plus he’s under contract next year as well. I think Douglas should go defense with his top two picks. An elite edge and corner would be perfect. We can’t burn a top 10 pick on a center 

Is he $9 million good?  I don't see him here due that. 

[Rhg1084]

38 minutes ago, hawk said:

Is he $9 million good?  I don't see him here due that. 

He’s currently a top 5 center. We gonna get rid of him cause he cost $9m? Who else are the Jets even paying next year? 

[hawk]

24 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

He’s currently a top 5 center. We gonna get rid of him cause he cost $9m? Who else are the Jets even paying next year? 

That is what I was asking.  Top 5 is pretty good.  

[nycdan]

Just found this fun clip of Linderbaum pinning Tristan Wirfs in a wrestling match in high school.

 

 

[Bronxville Jets Fan]

Been listening to and reading comments from Giants fans this week.  Many seem to think that Linderbaum is earmarked as the Giants first first-rounder.  I know they are just fans but it did make me think that he may go much earlier than expected.  

[Jets Voice of Reason]

In my opinion, centers and guards should only be taken high if they are reasonably going to be amongst the best in the league at their respective positions. That being said, Linderbaum fits that model perfectly. He's a Quentin Nelson level prospect and his tape just shows pure domination.

It also happens to align with a critical need for us. Yes, the pass blocking has generally improved for the Jets, but run blocking is the pillar of this offense and we don't have enough difference makers there on the line outside of Becton when he's healthy (huge if) and AVT. Grabbing Linderbaum turns what is a "not a flaming liability" anymore into a position of strength.

There is also a dearth of top end talent in the top 10 this year. The draft feels more deep in quality than it does in high-end talent. The opportunity cost of picking a center isn't as high because you don't really have a godly pass rushing talent or QB (not applicable to us), LT, or a Calvin Johnson type receiver you'd severely regret passing up on.

I'm an optimize value in the draft kind of guy, but I think if Linderbaum hits for the Jets, he would just do so much for the Jets because they could kick McGovern out to guard.

My personal preference is probably trade down one of the picks if possible to get more day 2 picks, but if we're forced to choose, getting Linderbaum + best available rusher would make me pretty happy in the first round.

 

 

 

[HighPitch]

I would love for JD to snag edge with the first pick, say Hutchins, then trade the next pick to a team in the teens for a second rounder. Then, we can grab Linderbaum around 14 and have an extra pick in the 2.

Linderbaum wont go top 10, but he will be gone at 25

[Rhg1084]

Anybody who has watched the Jets this year and comes away with the conclusion we need to use a high first round pick on a center doesn’t understand resource allocation 

[Barton]

19 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Anybody who has watched the Jets this year and comes away with the conclusion we need to use a high first round pick on a center doesn’t understand resource allocation 

Yup. And I like this Linderbaum cat too but cmon. 

[chirorob]

23 hours ago, HighPitch said:

I would love for JD to snag edge with the first pick, say Hutchins, then trade the next pick to a team in the teens for a second rounder. Then, we can grab Linderbaum around 14 and have an extra pick in the 2.

Linderbaum wont go top 10, but he will be gone at 25

I think he goes top 12.

If guards can go Top 8, so can he.

[HighPitch]

On 12/6/2021 at 12:32 PM, Rhg1084 said:

Anybody who has watched the Jets this year and comes away with the conclusion we need to use a high first round pick on a center doesn’t understand resource allocation 

the oline play is far far far from dominant. its OK. Investing in the Oline is always a good idea but this is all opinion

[PLO]

This guy is massively, massively over-rated by fans here. Maybe in the third round.

[Barry McCockinner]

21 minutes ago, PLO said:

This guy is massively, massively over-rated by fans here. Maybe in the third round.

Why do you think he's over-rated?

If he makes it to the second round he'll be scooped up very early in the second.

[BurntDice]

1 hour ago, PLO said:

This guy is massively, massively over-rated by fans here. Maybe in the third round.

I don’t think he’s overrated as a player. He’s very good, but scheme specific. I think the fans overrate how much a center is needed/how high they should be drafted 

[TuscanyTile2]

Right now is too early.  We have to wait at least until draft day.

[PLO]

3 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Why do you think he's over-rated?

If he makes it to the second round he'll be scooped up very early in the second.

Some people here have him top 10 overall, which is absurd, he can't move the line of scrimmage on his own and in fact has been rag-dolled numerous times this season by college level d-linemen when one-on-one. He's good out in space but that's like 15% of what his job will be in the NFL. 

He's an undersized C that requires good guard play around him to protect his physical short-comings. He's not half the prospect Nick Mangold was and Mangold was taken at the end of the first round back in the day. 

People here who would take him top 10, hell, even top 20 are out of their minds. I wouldn't take him in the first two rounds with the picks the Jets are likely to have in those rounds. Round 3 is where he enters the conversation for me. 

[PLO]

3 hours ago, BurntDice said:

I don’t think he’s overrated as a player. He’s very good, but scheme specific. I think the fans overrate how much a center is needed/how high they should be drafted 

He's definitely over-rated as a player. He will be overwhelmed in the NFL in situations where he's left one on one. Can you imagine him against a Vita Vea? This is not the player you want with a top 10 overall pick, even accounting for the fact there are more premium positions we should be targeting with those picks.