Jump to content

How early is too early for Tyler Linderbaum?


UntouchableCrew
 Share

Tyler Lynderbaum?  

54 members have voted

  1. 1. Where would you draft Tyler Linderbaum?

    • I'd be happy taking him in the top ten with the Seahawks pick
      34
    • I'd take him but only if we traded back or the Seahawks start winning. Top 10 is too high for IOL
      13
    • I wouldn't take him. This team has too many needs and has sunken too many assets into the OL. Give me an EDGE, CB, offensive playmaker, etc.
      7


Recommended Posts

24 minutes ago, nycdan said:

You could apply the same logic to taking Hamilton IMO.  Not saying i support or oppose it, but if you remove positional value, we probably could use a dominant Safety as much or more as a dominant Center, considering we already have a pretty decent Center and a big pile of Band-Aids at Safety.

Also, I personally dislike this "we ok" at center mentality that evolved over the last 2 months. We're aren't OK at Center imo, He stepped up and earned his paycheck this year, but he's just as likely to fall off a cliff next year then he is to match is performance. God forbid we have some depth and options in 2022... McGovern is certainly gone by 2023. 

  • Upvote 3
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

Also, I personally dislike this "we ok" at center mentality that evolved over the last 2 months. We're aren't OK at Center imo, He stepped up and earned his paycheck this year, but he's just as likely to fall off a cliff next year then he is to match is performance. God forbid we have some depth and options in 2022... McGovern is certainly gone by 2023. 

Not disagreeing.  But I think with how woeful our defense looked most of the season, something absolutely needs to happen there.  While if we could plug in a much better RG, and figure out what's going on at the Tackle positions, I think the OLine would be okay and we'd see more bang for the buck with a good-to-great TE and WR addition.  If we were looking at Spencer Long as our alternative, I'd be of a very different mindset but McGovern is competent.

If we traded down to mid-to-late teens, and Linderbaum was there, I could be much more excited about it.  10 just feels high.  I think Frank Ragnow at #15 was the highest drafted Center ever.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Not disagreeing.  But I think with how woeful our defense looked most of the season, something absolutely needs to happen there.  While if we could plug in a much better RG, and figure out what's going on at the Tackle positions, I think the OLine would be okay and we'd see more bang for the buck with a good-to-great TE and WR addition.  If we were looking at Spencer Long as our alternative, I'd be of a very different mindset but McGovern is competent.

If we traded down to mid-to-late teens, and Linderbaum was there, I could be much more excited about it.  10 just feels high.  I think Frank Ragnow at #15 was the highest drafted Center ever.

Mike Pouncey went 15, Ragnow 20. Centers used to go higher back in the day but modern era Pouncey takes it I think.

This draft is weak which makes it weird and a lot of the team’s needs aren’t hugely valued positions. The pick at 10 is likely to be weak positional value unless they double dip at edge or something.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here’s a Reddit thread on this same topic. Most of the same talking points.  I tend to agree that he won’t go top 15. 
 

Someone brought up that Creed Humphrey was a better prospect. I’m iffy on this one they both have a wrestling background which helps a ton with centers. Creed will likely put up better bench numbers. He was a bit heavier. To me they seem very similar and creed went late 2nd. 
 

I didn’t do much research on creed, but is linderbaum THAT much better coming out than him? I don’t think the gap is very large at all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Here’s a Reddit thread on this same topic. Most of the same talking points.  I tend to agree that he won’t go top 15. 
 

Someone brought up that Creed Humphrey was a better prospect. I’m iffy on this one they both have a wrestling background which helps a ton with centers. Creed will likely put up better bench numbers. He was a bit heavier. To me they seem very similar and creed went late 2nd. 
 

I didn’t do much research on creed, but is linderbaum THAT much better coming out than him? I don’t think the gap is very large at all. 

I remember being super annoyed we didn't grab Humprey in the 2nd. I was especially annoyed early in the season when Moore was having rookie struggles. Looks like he's a hit now so that softens the blow but it would have been nice to pair Creed w/AVT & Becton.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Here’s a Reddit thread on this same topic. Most of the same talking points.  I tend to agree that he won’t go top 15. 
 

Someone brought up that Creed Humphrey was a better prospect. I’m iffy on this one they both have a wrestling background which helps a ton with centers. Creed will likely put up better bench numbers. He was a bit heavier. To me they seem very similar and creed went late 2nd. 
 

I didn’t do much research on creed, but is linderbaum THAT much better coming out than him? I don’t think the gap is very large at all. 

hamster wheel up in here. 

YES, top 15 is high... but again, this draft class up top is the worst in 15 Years... so calibrate that expectation. I feel comfortable saying he won't make it to 15.. his competition after pick 5 or 6 is borderline round 2 prospects

  • Upvote 1
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I remember being super annoyed we didn't grab Humprey in the 2nd. I was especially annoyed early in the season when Moore was having rookie struggles. Looks like he's a hit now so that softens the blow but it would have been nice to pair Creed w/AVT & Becton.

I was mostly shocked that Dickerson went ahead of him he was coming off injury and a lot of people were saying that he wouldn’t be ready by training camp. They are completely opposite types on players though. Dickerson is more of a big mauler while Humphrey is more finesse.   
 

I think this is a good indicator that centers like linderbaum/Humphrey may not be valued nearly as high by nfl as they are by the fans. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Paradis said:

hamster wheel up in here. 

YES, top 15 is high... but again, this draft class up top is the worst in 15 Years... so calibrate that expectation. I feel comfortable saying he won't make it to 15.. 0%.. his competition after pick 5 or 6 is borderline round 2 prospects

Who’s to say linderbaum isn’t a round 2 prospect? 
 

Many many people had Humphrey go in the first last year and he fell to the late second. 
 

Guard is a more valuable position than center and there’s quite a few of them pegged late first/early second 

it’s also very unlikely that you can stick linderbaum in at guard in his rookie year because of his size, which may hurt his draft stock. 
 

The eagles drafted Dickerson and he’s been playing guard for them. When Kelce leaves then he has the opportunity to go back to center. 

if I was a betting man I’d put my chips into linderbaum going 20+
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Paradis said:

Also, I personally dislike this "we ok" at center mentality that evolved over the last 2 months. We're aren't OK at Center imo, He stepped up and earned his paycheck this year, but he's just as likely to fall off a cliff next year then he is to match is performance. God forbid we have some depth and options in 2022... McGovern is certainly gone by 2023. 

I'm not so sure about that. McGovern had a bad 2020 in Adam Gase's offense and a good 2021 in the Shanahan scheme. We signed him off a great 2019 in Denver, where he played under Rich Scangarello, who was hired that year after being the 9ers QB coach; I don't know what offense they ran but I'd assume it was a Shanahan scheme, too. But he was awful in 2018 under Bill Musgrave, who ran a different offense. He may just be a much better fit for our current offense than he is in other schemes.

That doesn't mean we should ignore the position - he's only got 1 year left on his deal, so grabbing a stud like Linderbaum who could shift him to OG or a projectable backup in a later round who could take over if McGovern asks for too much money next offseason makes all the sense in the world. But I don't think he's anywhere near as likely to fall off a cliff next year as he is to match this year's performance, especially given the benefits of continuity

  • Upvote 1
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW, given the uncertainty with Becton I think it's much likelier that we grab a G/T swing type guy in the first (Neal at 4, Ekwonu at 10) than a C. If Becton comes back healthy and looks good, you can set the OL as Fant-AVT-McGovern-Neal/Ekwonu-Becton for 2022 and then (depending on how comfortable you are with Becton/Neal at LT) let Fant walk in 2023 or extend Fant, run that same thing back in 2023 and let Becton walk as a FA with Neal/Ekwonu kicking out to RG. 

If you use that pick on a C like Linderbaum, you're basically betting everything on Becton coming back strong at RT and then either being able to handle LT long term. 

Of course, FA could change all of this if, for example, we sign Moses for a few years or pick up someone else, but with the roster as it stands now, I don't think Douglas accepts that level of uncertainty at RT and long term LT.

  • Upvote 4
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

FWIW, given the uncertainty with Becton I think it's much likelier that we grab a G/T swing type guy in the first (Neal at 4, Ekwonu at 10) than a C. If Becton comes back healthy and looks good, you can set the OL as Fant-AVT-McGovern-Neal/Ekwonu-Becton for 2022 and then (depending on how comfortable you are with Becton/Neal at LT) let Fant walk in 2023 or extend Fant, run that same thing back in 2023 and let Becton walk as a FA with Neal/Ekwonu kicking out to RG. 

If you use that pick on a C like Linderbaum, you're basically betting everything on Becton coming back strong at RT and then either being able to handle LT long term. 

Of course, FA could change all of this if, for example, we sign Moses for a few years or pick up someone else, but with the roster as it stands now, I don't think Douglas accepts that level of uncertainty at RT and long term LT.

Exactly, this is why I’d target Kinnard in the early 2nd. He can play G/T and has experience in a zone heavy scheme. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

FWIW, given the uncertainty with Becton I think it's much likelier that we grab a G/T swing type guy in the first (Neal at 4, Ekwonu at 10) than a C. If Becton comes back healthy and looks good, you can set the OL as Fant-AVT-McGovern-Neal/Ekwonu-Becton for 2022 and then (depending on how comfortable you are with Becton/Neal at LT) let Fant walk in 2023 or extend Fant, run that same thing back in 2023 and let Becton walk as a FA with Neal/Ekwonu kicking out to RG. 

If you use that pick on a C like Linderbaum, you're basically betting everything on Becton coming back strong at RT and then either being able to handle LT long term. 

Of course, FA could change all of this if, for example, we sign Moses for a few years or pick up someone else, but with the roster as it stands now, I don't think Douglas accepts that level of uncertainty at RT and long term LT.

Totally agree. I'd add green in the mix too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Who’s to say linderbaum isn’t a round 2 prospect? 
 

Many many people had Humphrey go in the first last year and he fell to the late second. 
 

Linderbaum has been a proven, better than consistent product for over 2 seasons.. he just one of those guys that people feel extra good about getting what you pay for. I think in a robust class, he's probably your atypical R1 center #20-30.. but i can't stress how uninspiring the other options are. If anything, the bust risk (of other prospects) will propel him into the top 15 IMO

21 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

I'm not so sure about that. McGovern had a bad 2020 in Adam Gase's offense and a good 2021 in the Shanahan scheme. We signed him off a great 2019 in Denver, where he played under Rich Scangarello, who was hired that year after being the 9ers QB coach; I don't know what offense they ran but I'd assume it was a Shanahan scheme, too. But he was awful in 2018 under Bill Musgrave, who ran a different offense. He may just be a much better fit for our current offense than he is in other schemes.

That doesn't mean we should ignore the position - he's only got 1 year left on his deal, so grabbing a stud like Linderbaum who could shift him to OG or a projectable backup in a later round who could take over if McGovern asks for too much money next offseason makes all the sense in the world. But I don't think he's anywhere near as likely to fall off a cliff next year as he is to match this year's performance, especially given the benefits of continuity

Fair point, he's been a good fit for this scheme. If he plays well in 2022, then he'll want get his *probably* last good payday contract and that will come in FA... either way you slice it, we have 2 first round picks in super soft class, and the case against Linderbaum is far weaker than the case for, in my ever so humble opinion 😘

  • Upvote 1
  • Sympathy 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Paradis let's play would you rather. Rank these first round pairs in order of your preference:

Neal (4) & Ojabo (10)?

Neal (4) & someone else (not Linderbaum, no chance they double dip OL at 4 & 10) (10)

Hutch/Thibs (4 by some miracle) & Ekwonu (10)

Hutch/Thibs (4) & Linderbaum 10

Karlaftis/someone else (4) & Ekwonu (10)

Karlaftis/someone else (4) & Linderbaum (10)

(If it's "someone else" tell me who)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

@Paradis let's play would you rather. Rank these first round pairs in order of your preference:

Neal (4) & Ojabo (10)?

Neal (4) & someone else (not Linderbaum, no chance they double dip OL at 4 & 10) (10)

Hutch/Thibs (4 by some miracle) & Ekwonu (10)

Hutch/Thibs (4) & Linderbaum 10

Karlaftis/someone else (4) & Ekwonu (10)

Karlaftis/someone else (4) & Linderbaum (10)

(If it's "someone else" tell me who)

Does Neal fit the wide zone or is he a gap/power scheme player exclusively?

Someone posted the interview with Thibs and Joel Klatt where Thibs said he chose Oregon over Alabama because Oregon has Nike HQ and offers a better education than Alabama - where he admits he would've won championships. 

  • Part of me wants to say "smart kid", and another part of me thinks this is exactly the type of player Saleh described as "the player who doesn't love football, but loves what football gives him"

It's early in this process, but if I had to choose two players right now @ 4 and 10?

Ekwonu @ 4 

  • Played the wide zone @ NC State
  • Giants pick twice and their line is the worst in the league, Carolina desperately needs tackles - saying I wouldn't gamble on him falling

Jermaine Johnson @ 10

  • This is a complete projection of what I expect to be a considerable rise in stock over the next two months - he's at the senior bowl and I'd wager he'll have a good combine performance

If we fail to acquire a receiver pre-draft, there's a good chance the 10 pick could be used there, and I'd be happy with Wilson or Burks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I feel like there is so little separation between guys who will go top 5 to the guys who will go late teens.   Almost everyone you mock at 4 and 10 are going to feel like reaches.  I think positional value is going out the window this year, you take the cleanest prospect you can that fits your system.  

To this end I think any movement in the draft is going to be less about player quality and more about teams who have isolated their guy and want to get ahead of teams who are threats to take him.

I’m still interested in how this shakes out for QB. If you’re going to be gambling on a prospect why not gamble on the most important position in sports?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Thibs (4) & Linderbaum 10

Hamilton(4) & Linderbaum (10)

Thibs & Ekwonu (10)

Hamilton & Ekwonu (10)

I cheated a bit and simplified - but you get the point. I don't trust Hutch to be more than a try hard. Bust? maybe not. #4 OVA? ehhh, Honestly, i don't like any of them. Hamilton is sexy but #4? my goodness. Then it becomes Oline because.

This draft also suffers from having few "risers" and names that could rocket into the top 10 that would stimulate the whole thing. Last year that was Kyle Pitts, Trey lance, even R. Slater -- to mix it up, or at least the possibly of... this year, what - Pickett? He's supposed to leap frog into the top 5?... Corral?... The biggest Dark horse sleepers are who exactly?.. the OT Cross? The edge guy from SDST, Thomas? 

It all feels forced and grossly uninspired. Everytime i glance at big boards I grow more disappointed that THIS is the year we have a swath of picks in the top 90

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Paradis said:

Also, I personally dislike this "we ok" at center mentality that evolved over the last 2 months. We're aren't OK at Center imo, He stepped up and earned his paycheck this year, but he's just as likely to fall off a cliff next year then he is to match is performance. God forbid we have some depth and options in 2022... McGovern is certainly gone by 2023. 

I agree with this.  We don't know which of our OL will fall off a cliff next year plus we have a lot of uncertainty on OL going forward.  OTOH, I hear the complaints of people saying "you can get OL in the mid rounds" and "we've dumped too much draft capital into OL the past couple of years".  It's hard to disagree with them.  But we have to let the draft come to us rather than force an approach due to need (e.g. "we need WR").

This draft seems frustrating as heck.  We need an Edge and WR but, from what I've heard/read (note that I don't follow college football), it doesn't sound like what will be available to us (Karlaftis along with this year's WR class) is going to make that big of an impact. 

The impact player that will probably be available to us (Kyle Hamilton) plays a non-premium position.

I think our best case is probably to trade down (should we get a reasonable offer).  If we stay where we are currently though, we might have to take Hamilton and Linderbaum (if they're available).  Or maybe Neal/Linderbaum and just try to build an elite unit.  It's too many resources into 1 position group but maybe that would be better than overdrafting a mediocre edge or WR because "we need someone at the position".

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Paradis said:

Also, I personally dislike this "we ok" at center mentality that evolved over the last 2 months. We're aren't OK at Center imo, He stepped up and earned his paycheck this year, but he's just as likely to fall off a cliff next year then he is to match is performance. God forbid we have some depth and options in 2022... McGovern is certainly gone by 2023. 

Plus this is a running based system. A dominant rushing attack means that our play action is more effective and it puts less pressure on Zach Wilson to have to carry this offense. 

Linderbaum looks like he’s going to be a dominant pro. It’s hard to pass that up for a team that needs to have a good offseason and a good to dominant center is valuable, no matter what the main board is saying. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Plus this is a running based system. A dominant rushing attack means that our play action is more effective and it puts less pressure on Zach Wilson to have to carry this offense. 

Linderbaum looks like he’s going to be a dominant pro. It’s hard to pass that up for a team that needs to have a good offseason and a good to dominant center is valuable, no matter what the main board is saying. 

Then you have 4 guys on rookie deals on your Oline and can spend the big bucks on impact players for at least 3 years.  Hard part is figuring out how to come down from the high tho, man.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How is Linderbaum going to be a "dominant pro"? He's not even dominant in college. Compare Quenton Nelson college tape to Linderbaum and get back to me. Nelson stood out at all levels in college. The only place Linderbaum is dominant is in space against LBs who are 60 lbs lighter than him. He requires the assistance of his guards to help him handle NFL-caliber DTs. Watch him at the line of scrimmage and tell me he's "dominant" in college. 

He would be a massive, massive reach with any of our first or second round picks. A lightweight center who likely can't play guard. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Super prospect but with McGovern playing as a top 10 center after getting comfortable with our scheme, and our OLINE (when relatively healthy)  played average to above,  the Linderbaum pick is becoming more of a luxury and we have so many needs. I would be comfortable with Linderbaum if we traded down to 15 or so.

  • Upvote 1
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/18/2022 at 8:51 AM, Copernicus said:

Super prospect but with McGovern playing as a top 10 center after getting comfortable with our scheme, and our OLINE (when relatively healthy)  played average to above,  the Linderbaum pick is becoming more of a luxury and we have so many needs. I would be comfortable with Linderbaum if we traded down to 15 or so.

Exactly, I’d much rather give McGovern an extension (only 29 years old) than draft a center 10th overall 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/17/2022 at 7:08 PM, Origen said:

Then you have 4 guys on rookie deals on your Oline and can spend the big bucks on impact players for at least 3 years.  Hard part is figuring out how to come down from the high tho, man.

Linderbaum drafted at 10 is still a top 15 per year salary for a center. Towards the end of his rookie contract it will get close to top 10 salary. 
 

most centers are cheap because they aren’t viewed as valuable as the rest of the line. Taking him that high you spend high draft capital and a high salary with regard to position. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, BurntDice said:

Linderbaum drafted at 10 is still a top 15 per year salary for a center. Towards the end of his rookie contract it will get close to top 10 salary. 
 

most centers are cheap because they aren’t viewed as valuable as the rest of the line. Taking him that high you spend high draft capital and a high salary with regard to position. 

Not something I really considered but a very good point for resource allocation. Maybe it causes him to slide a bit if other teams have this thought process too. Of course all it takes is one.

  • Upvote 1
  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...