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Saleh: This is the first time this fanbase has experienced something like this. This is an actual plan.


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4 minutes ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

What are you talking about?  We have been rebuilding for the last 12 years, 3 coaches who were supposed to be geniuses and lead us to the promise land. 3 quarterbacks who were supposed to be the franchise saviour, and 100 1st round busts we are still rebuilding.  When will this stupid ownership get things right?

No, no, no. The rebuild odometer only goes up to 2 years until it rolls over back to zero.

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Saleh touched on a lot of big picture, rebuild stuff in todays press conference - a really good listen. https://www.newyorkjets.com/video/robert-saleh-press-conference-11-22-week-12 These gu

For those hoping for a quick exit for Mr. Saleh . . . he doesn't strike me as a guy who is worried about getting fired this offseason   

Well, well, guess we'll see.  In 2022.  Maybe 2023.  Possibly 2024, possibly.

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13 minutes ago, jgb said:

No, no, no. The rebuild odometer only goes up to 2 years until it rolls over back to zero.

Oh I understand now must be up there with good sportsmanship and being a nice guy.  Long as we keep hiring coaches and drafting players with good character and no off the field issues, its ok for them to suck and not earn their paychecks.  Maybe in 2070 we will finally get it right and hire a coach and draft a Qb who is both a choir boy and actually good at his job.  Saleh is laughing all the way to the bank right now  along with John Franklin Meyers knowing they are being paid for the next 4 years to suck at their jobs and worst case they get fired and still get paid to sit on their couch.

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5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

While I agree with you in sentiment, the other side of that coin - the unintended side effect of immediately trading rather than benching malcontents who won’t listen out buy in - is it’d incentivize others to get in the coach’s doghouse early enough to get traded by the deadline. 

But also this indignant stance he’s taking right now - which I can’t listen to right now - is it’s transparently self serving. He just gave himself a mulligan for losing 8 of 10, and for losing still more thereafter. Pretty convenient, even if it does hold water.

100%, though I’d argue there’s value in getting malcontents to self-identify. There’s a difference between saying “Hey guys, give me a break, I don’t have the pieces right now” and coaching the team like he has a redshirt year. The team is consistently flat as a pancake when it comes out and they’re consistently out of position in defense. That’s not a personnel problem—that’s a coaching problem. Saleh better figure out how to turn Wilson into a starting QB ASAP and he better develop a sense of urgency quick because his act is already wearing thin. 

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Also, hot tip to our ambitious beat writers: put down the XBOX controller and call Mike Tannenbaum, John Idzik, and Mike Maccagnan and ask them if they had “a plan,” because Bobby Salad is suggesting that you did not, in fact, have a plan, and my suspicion is that your plans—which Bob said you didn’t have—ran into the iceberg that is the Jets executive management group

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32 minutes ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

What are you talking about?  We have been rebuilding for the last 12 years, 3 coaches later who were supposed to be geniuses and lead us to the promise land. 3 quarterbacks later who were supposed to be the franchise saviour, and 100 1st round busts later we are still rebuilding.  When will this stupid ownership get things right?

At least we haven't been building as long as the lions

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20 minutes ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

Oh I understand now must be up there with good sportsmanship and being a nice guy.  Long as we keep hiring coaches and drafting players with good character and no off the field issues, its ok for them to suck and not earn their paychecks.  Maybe in 2070 we will finally get it right and hire a coach and draft a Qb who is both a choir boy and actually good at his job.  Saleh is laughing all the way to the bank right now  along with John Franklin Meyers knowing they are being paid for the next 4 years to suck at their jobs and worst case they get fired and still get paid to sit on their couch.

You should have seen this forum right before JFM was signed

there were like 7 threads that all said "SIGN THIS BEAST"

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53 minutes ago, Hex said:

At least we haven't been building as long as the lions

What you mean even the Lions made the playoffs in 2016 and drafted a franchise quarterback in Mathew Stafford.  They got 6 years on us.  We are a laughing stock even a bigger one than the Detroit freakin lions.   But hey atleast our team has a bunch of nice upstanding citizens on their roster, and a family man at the helm!  So I guess were good  at something just not at football.

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18 minutes ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

What you mean even the Lions made the playoffs in 2016 and drafted a franchise quarterback in Mathew Stafford.  They got 6 years on us.  We are a laughing stock even a bigger one than the Detroit freakin lions.   But hey atleast our team has a bunch of nice upstanding citizens on their roster, and a family man at the helm!  So I guess we win at something just not at football.

serious dude. they have been to the playoffs 3 times in 20 years. there last playoff win was 1991. which was there only conference championship game ever!

dont ever say were a bigger laughing stock then them. our history has been a hell of a lot better then theres. 

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5 minutes ago, doitny said:

serious dude. they have been to the playoffs 3 times in 20 years. there last playoff win was 1991. which was there only conference championship game ever!

dont ever say were a bigger laughing stock then them. our history has been a hell of a lot better then theres. 

We were talking about rebuilding, we have been rebuilding longer than the Detroit Lions and still have not gotten it right after 12 years.

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3 hours ago, jgb said:

No, no, no. The rebuild odometer only goes up to 2 years until it rolls over back to zero.

It's like Back To The Future ... as soon as we get a certain amount of momentum - BANG, we travel back in time 40 years.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

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3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Also, hot tip to our ambitious beat writers: put down the XBOX controller and call Mike Tannenbaum, John Idzik, and Mike Maccagnan and ask them if they had “a plan,” because Bobby Salad is suggesting that you did not, in fact, have a plan, and my suspicion is that your plans—which Bob said you didn’t have—ran into the iceberg that is the Jets executive management group

What's that old quote (or probably misquote) - "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth"?

Tanny had a plan, and he did not bad (relatively speaking) at executing it.

Idzik had a plan ... he just couldn't execute it.

Mac had a plan ... he just couldn't execute it. 

JD has a plan ... can he execute it??

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Q: How does Saleh know what happened here with Idzik and Mr Coffee?

A: He doesn't. He was reading "talking points" from the PR department.

The HC will do himself a favor when he stops reading the Monday talking points memo offered by the FO flacks and stick to what he knows and what he controls.

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If the rebuild is successful the w/l record from 2020/2021 won't matter. If the rebuild isn't successful, it also won't matter.
I get people are pissed about losing, it sucks. 


I’m not mad about losing, I’m mad about losing in such atrocious fashion with such undisciplined play and a coaching staff that seems completely content about it.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app
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7 hours ago, jgb said:

Yeah the Khalil signing was a decent enough (at minimum defensible) risk/reward. I did not like Wilson but didn’t fault JD for drafting him (I mean, I could be wrong lol) but the way he mismanaged the QB2 situation was the turning point for me. A foreseeable problem with multiple cheap solutions and JD kept hitting snooze.

It’s interesting to me that a lot of the same people who thought going into the season with just Wilson and White at QB are also some of the same people who think White should still be starting. 
 
If you go back to last spring, there was a lot of speculation about the QBs, but no clear answers. It wasn’t until Zach Wilson’s pro day in late March that it looked like the Jets were settling on him. Sam Darnold was still on the roster at that time, and wouldn’t be traded for another week or two. Internally, it’s possible that they thought they might carry Darnold as the backup until Joe D got a trade he liked. 
 
Honestly, I’m with you in that I felt that the Jets should’ve had a veteran presence in the QB room. I think that mentoring thing is actually valuable. I also think that trading a sixth round pick for Flacco is an admission of sorts that they should’ve had someone like that on the team all along. I don’t see that as an indictment, though, quite the opposite. I see a second year GM and rookie HC recognizing an issue and correcting it. That’s what you want to see from your green executives, the ability to learn and grow from their own mistakes. 
 
All in all, though, the biggest problem at QB is that Wilson hasn’t performed. Mike White got into the HoF, and Josh Johnson and Joe Flacco both played well, too. The backups aren’t the issue, Wilson needs to play better starting this week. 

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35 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

This board is amazing sometimes.  You really cant make the sh*t up you read.

Jets fans are in here defending former GM's.  The same GM's they demanded to be fired largely because they had no discernable plan, all because Saleh spoke some truth and apparently, he's not allowed to speak truth because he's only won 2 games.

 

@T0mShane defines this post perfectly

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35 minutes ago, jason423 said:

This is such nonsense that the other GMs "didnt have a plan' or try to rebuild. Did their plans work?  No they did not. But to claim they had no plan is insulting. Idzik tore the team apart into a rebuild far more than Joe Douglas has. Idzik probably went too far and alienated people in the building and the fanbase. The job was just too big. 

Maccagnan's first year he did what ownership wanted and everyone was in love with him for it. He did attempt to rebuild as well first with Hackenberg and then with Darnold. His strategy was to build a team via defense in the draft and keep getting enough cap space every two years or so to make you think he was a cap mastermind and forget that the signings in free agency all stunk.

Douglas is now trying to build with Wilson as a QB and rather than defense he is focusing more on offense in particular the O-line. His FA signings on the line have been poor. He traded up for AVT and has to hope that Becton will ever be healthy. Mims is a bust. Moore looks good. He's done a good job of trading away Mac players he did not want for draft picks including a great job of trading Adams. His FA run has not been good but they havent dipped their toe in the type of FAs that blew up for Maccagnan. Unless ownership demands otherwise I would guess they will just simply linger in the $5 to $10M a year range for FAs and keep spinning their own draft picks who bust for draft assets until they feel the QB is good which from the way they talk they think will be 2023. The team is on track for back to back number 2 picks in the draft. Thats not a sign that something is "clearly working" because if it was teams like the Lions and Jaguars would be perennial contenders. Doesnt mean it wont work but there is nothing to illustrate a team that is working the way the Bills were when they flipped their organization.

But to pretend that the Jets fan base has never seen this is ridiculous. Anyone over the age of 10 has seen this here multiple times. The excuse meter out of the staff is off the charts. They havent played well. They are atrocious on defense. They have failed with a few QBs on offense. Just be straight and say that this hasnt been what they had hoped for and that they will expect changes next year. Dont just throw out comments about how "Josh Allen got it in year 3" and "look at the Cardinals in year 3". 

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14 hours ago, slimjasi said:

For those hoping for a quick exit for Mr. Saleh . . . he doesn't strike me as a guy who is worried about getting fired this offseason 

 

And nor should he, if the guy who hand-picked him as coach, staked the franchise future on ZW and has provided the roster that has won 4 out of the last 26 games is getting 6 years then nobody should be surprised, or upset about, Saleh being in this for the long haul

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14 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Saleh touched on a lot of big picture, rebuild stuff in todays press conference - a really good listen.

https://www.newyorkjets.com/video/robert-saleh-press-conference-11-22-week-12

These guys are laying a foundation for the future and doing things the right way. I'm wholly convinced Saleh and JD are going to turn this around.  

we all hope so.  so far they aren't looking too good.  i'm not sure if saleh or douglas are actually seeing much improvement over the course of the season so far.

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32 minutes ago, slats said:

It’s interesting to me that a lot of the same people who thought going into the season with just Wilson and White at QB are also some of the same people who think White should still be starting. 
 
If you go back to last spring, there was a lot of speculation about the QBs, but no clear answers. It wasn’t until Zach Wilson’s pro day in late March that it looked like the Jets were settling on him. Sam Darnold was still on the roster at that time, and wouldn’t be traded for another week or two. Internally, it’s possible that they thought they might carry Darnold as the backup until Joe D got a trade he liked. 
 
Honestly, I’m with you in that I felt that the Jets should’ve had a veteran presence in the QB room. I think that mentoring thing is actually valuable. I also think that trading a sixth round pick for Flacco is an admission of sorts that they should’ve had someone like that on the team all along. I don’t see that as an indictment, though, quite the opposite. I see a second year GM and rookie HC recognizing an issue and correcting it. That’s what you want to see from your green executives, the ability to learn and grow from their own mistakes. 
 
All in all, though, the biggest problem at QB is that Wilson hasn’t performed. Mike White got into the HoF, and Josh Johnson and Joe Flacco both played well, too. The backups aren’t the issue, Wilson needs to play better starting this week. 

What’s interesting is how so many people are desperate the twist the narrative that those who wanted White to START ONLY IF THE ALTERNATIVE WAS FLACCO are some kind of rabid Mike White fan club who think he’s going to be the next Kurt Warner.

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I love being lectured by somebody with no track record. It was like in 2002 when Herm said that was the first time this franchise won a division in over 30 years lol the jackass didn’t know they dit it 4 years prior.

 

Losing is now acceptable. It should be unacceptable under any circumstances. I am just so sick of this bullsh*t.

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15 minutes ago, rangerous said:

we all hope so.  so far they aren't looking too good.  i'm not sure if saleh or douglas are actually seeing much improvement over the course of the season so far.

So far the team sucks!

It's the production of this years draft class that is encouraging. They've got a bunch of rookies starting and taking a lot of meaningful snaps in the new systems they're installing. Some of those rookies look really good (AVT, Carter, Moore). Next year they're going to have a young core of guys that already know what they're doing, and how to play together. They're going to be able to play fast from D1.

When have the Jets done a rebuild that looks like this?

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3 minutes ago, BP said:

I love being lectured by somebody with no track record. It was like in 2002 when Herm said that was the first time this franchise won a division in over 30 years lol the jackass didn’t know they dit it 4 years prior.

 

Losing is now acceptable. It should be unacceptable under any circumstances. I am just so sick of this bullsh*t.

Its pathetic. Plenty of fans running cover for it too. 

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49 minutes ago, jason423 said:

This is such nonsense that the other GMs "didnt have a plan' or try to rebuild. Did their plans work?  No they did not. But to claim they had no plan is insulting. Idzik tore the team apart into a rebuild far more than Joe Douglas has. Idzik probably went too far and alienated people in the building and the fanbase. The job was just too big. 

Maccagnan's first year he did what ownership wanted and everyone was in love with him for it. He did attempt to rebuild as well first with Hackenberg and then with Darnold. His strategy was to build a team via defense in the draft and keep getting enough cap space every two years or so to make you think he was a cap mastermind and forget that the signings in free agency all stunk.

Douglas is now trying to build with Wilson as a QB and rather than defense he is focusing more on offense in particular the O-line. His FA signings on the line have been poor. He traded up for AVT and has to hope that Becton will ever be healthy. Mims is a bust. Moore looks good. He's done a good job of trading away Mac players he did not want for draft picks including a great job of trading Adams. His FA run has not been good but they havent dipped their toe in the type of FAs that blew up for Maccagnan. Unless ownership demands otherwise I would guess they will just simply linger in the $5 to $10M a year range for FAs and keep spinning their own draft picks who bust for draft assets until they feel the QB is good which from the way they talk they think will be 2023. The team is on track for back to back number 2 picks in the draft. Thats not a sign that something is "clearly working" because if it was teams like the Lions and Jaguars would be perennial contenders. Doesnt mean it wont work but there is nothing to illustrate a team that is working the way the Bills were when they flipped their organization.

But to pretend that the Jets fan base has never seen this is ridiculous. Anyone over the age of 10 has seen this here multiple times. The excuse meter out of the staff is off the charts. They havent played well. They are atrocious on defense. They have failed with a few QBs on offense. Just be straight and say that this hasnt been what they had hoped for and that they will expect changes next year. Dont just throw out comments about how "Josh Allen got it in year 3" and "look at the Cardinals in year 3". 

well the other gm's had plans but it's also about getting the right blend of players and recognizing where the real issues are.  there's no excuse for douglas bringing in kahlil in year one but at the same time they wanted to replace harrison and there just weren't many players available.  and douglas was trying to get gase the players he wanted. and douglas isn't going for big dollar free agents because the all pro type players for a team are going to come through the draft.  yes mims doesn't seem like such a good choice.  neither does perine or zuniga.  but becton still has a ton of ability, hall and mann are doing pretty well and davis is at least playing.  no telling about clark. and for 2021 he brought in wilson avt, carter 1, carter 2, moore, echols.  all of those guys are playing well although wilson needs more polish than expected for the number 2 pick.  the rest of the draft was ho hum.  and then there are the free agents like lawson, davis, jarod davis, cole, kroft, feeney, shaq lawson etc.  most of these guys are on one year deals.  the bad part is most have also had significant periods of injury over the course of the season so it's hard to see if they would've made a difference.

on the whole, i think the douglas plan is pretty sound.  he's getting the players to fill the holes and not being bogged down with multiyear free agent contracts.  he's amassed quite a few draft picks which will give him a. lot of flexibility in the draft.  of course the big question mark is how to get the players all working together and that's saleh's job.  we'll see what happens.  i was hoping for a more competitive team but it's just not happening this season.

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6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Its pathetic. Plenty of fans running cover for it too. 

In 1997 Bill Parcells told the press “I don’t have a crystal ball, but I have a plan” his plan worked, so wtf is Saleh talking about? They were competitive immediately with a smoke and mirror defense. Anthony pleasant a journey man was our best defensive lineman lol

 

It’s the way the Jets are losing that’s really pissing me off. There’s no plan lmao 

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6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Also, hot tip to our ambitious beat writers: put down the XBOX controller and call Mike Tannenbaum, John Idzik, and Mike Maccagnan and ask them if they had “a plan,” because Bobby Salad is suggesting that you did not, in fact, have a plan, and my suspicion is that your plans—which Bob said you didn’t have—ran into the iceberg that is the Jets executive management group

Tannenbaum had a plan, that’s it. And his plan centered on the fact that he wasn’t good at drafting so he built an expensive, top-heavy roster thru free agency that had zero depth. Idzik had an idea of a plan, but was also a disaster at drafting. Maccagnan operated strictly from the seat of his pants with every single move or pick he made appearing to reside in its own vacuum. 
 
Robert Saleh joined a team that hasn’t been to the playoffs in ten years. Some fans would still like a Maccagnan first year type plan where they spend big in free agency, give everyone lots of hope, win a few games and then suck again. Because there’s no patience left for some fans. I get that. But Joe Douglas has only been here for two of those ten years and Saleh hasn’t finished his first yet. This is the first time since Tannenbaum and Mangini that the GM and HC are actually working together on the same page. And you’d have to go back to them in 2006 with Brick, Mangold, and Leon Washington, probably, to find a Jets draft that had three players as good as AVT, Moore, and the Carters. If Wilson turns it around, this year’s draft could be the best the team’s ever had. They have a plan to build it, imho, in the right way. Thru the draft, with high end talent on affordable contracts. The way the Steelers and Ravens keep themselves relevant year after year. Of course it’s painful right now, because the Jets traded away the only talented players Mac drafted (and not so talented) for additional draft capital. 
 
They also had some misfortune. The most experienced coach on the team was killed in a bike accident. Their high-priced Edge -who looked brilliant in training camp- gets lost to an Achilles. Last year’s first rounder is hurt again. Their franchise tagged safety also done for the season. That stuff adds up. 
 
It’s been disappointing, no doubt. I wanted to see a team getting better as the season went on. At least we’ve seen that with the offense a little bit. I don’t think anyone’s calling for LaFluer’s head right now. But they need to continue to get better. They found a mid-season option to replace GVR, so that was good. They’re calling up young guys to fill in on defense. These guys are gaining experience that will only help them moving forward. Next year with a top five pick, maybe a top ten pick, and two more in the top 50, and plenty of cap space, a number of these kids starting this year will be the depth behind new starters next season. 
 
Did you watch that press conference? It really was good. 

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6 minutes ago, BP said:

In 1997 Bill Parcells told the press “I don’t have a crystal ball, but I have a plan” his plan worked, so wtf is Saleh talking about? They were competitive immediately with a smoke and mirror defense. Anthony pleasant a journey man was our best defensive lineman lol

 

It’s the way the Jets are losing that’s really pissing me off. There’s no plan lmao 

If it felt like there was a plan instead of the coach spouting hot air, then maybe. Parcells had a track record of winning and was already a proven leader with conviction. On last nights Manning cast Parcells still looks like he has it in him (just saying :) )

Saleh while seems to be a nice guy...he isnt in a place where he can just spout corny lines about having a plan when the team is last in point differential. What plan? Joe Flacco? Not tackling? Running a powder puff training camp? Opting out of OTA's?

Douglas too. You can't draft Becton and Mims back to back and tell me there is any sort of comprehensive plan. Becton failed a drug test before his pro day for gods sakes lol. If there were ever any more obvious do not draft players than those two were...

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19 minutes ago, BP said:

I love being lectured by somebody with no track record. It was like in 2002 when Herm said that was the first time this franchise won a division in over 30 years lol the jackass didn’t know they dit it 4 years prior.

 

Losing is now acceptable. It should be unacceptable under any circumstances. I am just so sick of this bullsh*t.

You smooth brained idiot. You can’t judge a football team by results. You have to dig deeper into the hearts and minds of team leadership.

18 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

So far the team sucks!

It's the production of this years draft class that is encouraging. They've got a bunch of rookies starting and taking a lot of meaningful snaps in the new systems they're installing. Some of those rookies look really good (AVT, Carter, Moore). Next year they're going to have a young core of guys that already know what they're doing, and how to play together. They're going to be able to play fast from D1.

When have the Jets done a rebuild that looks like this?

All the encouraging rookie production has come with Wilson on the shelf. Coincidence? We’ll see.

15 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Its pathetic. Plenty of fans running cover for it too. 

Same as it ever was. The magical thinking crew are always the loudest and most emotional.

4 minutes ago, BP said:

In 1997 Bill Parcells told the press “I don’t have a crystal ball, but I have a plan” his plan worked, so wtf is Saleh talking about? They were competitive immediately with a smoke and mirror defense. Anthony pleasant a journey man was our best defensive lineman lol

 

It’s the way the Jets are losing that’s really pissing me off. There’s no plan lmao 

Maybe after we skill up Saleh and he’s onto his next team he will be a decent HC

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14 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I love it!! We are already seeing the foundation of young players and no sign of the overwhelming monstrosity of a over paid roster in sight! Love it

I never get the issue with paying people. Our roster sucks, especially  on defense because we have chosen not to pay people

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At the end of the day we have a roster of players.  Great coaches look at the roster they have and make it work through coaching players and putting them in position to excel.

There's a reason we won a SB with Weeb.  We had an amazing coaching staff.  The same is true when Parcells was here.  We had great coaching up and down the line and while there was some philosophy on scheme there wasn't the idea that a monkey could scheme for the opponent each week.

We are going to draft some great players and some outright busts.  We are going to have injuries and we are going to face other teams that are trying to improve their rosters every year.  Some are declining and some are ascending.

Big picture are you coaching up the players.  Do you have a plan for the roster you actually have not some mythical roster that doesn't exist? 

So far the plan for Zach looks slap dick.  They got lucky he wasn't seriously hurt.  Luck isn't a plan.  Zach was suppossed to be supported.  He wasn't supported.  They have a reset only because he's injury wasn't serious.

I'm okay with what Joe D has done. It's not great but it's following a plan.  I'm not impressed with the coaching staff to date.  This isn't the staff Parcells brought in that still fell short.   

The teams that Rex had were built with a plan.  They were loaded and we had good coaches.  Not great, good.  They still fell short.  There is nothing this staff has done to date that spells great staff.

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