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Saleh: This is the first time this fanbase has experienced something like this. This is an actual plan.


Barry McCockinner
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1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Saleh: The way Idzik & Mac tried to rebuild was trash city

Jets Fans:

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“What exactly is different about your plan over Idzik’s and Mac’s?”

”Oh, we are going to hit on our draft picks.”

 

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Just now, jgb said:

You smooth brained idiot. You can’t judge a football team by results. You have to dig deeper into the hearts and minds of team leadership.

All the encouraging rookie production has come with Wilson on the shelf. Coincidence? We’ll see.

Same as it ever was. The magical thinking crew are always the loudest and most emotional.

Maybe after we skill up Saleh and he’s onto his next team he will be a decent HC

I wouldn't say all of it, but definitely most of what Moore has shown was without Wilson. You'll get no argument from me that Wilson hasn't looked good. A lot hinges on him showing he can be that dude.

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31 minutes ago, jgb said:

What’s interesting is how so many people are desperate the twist the narrative that those who wanted White to START ONLY IF THE ALTERNATIVE WAS FLACCO are some kind of rabid Mike White fan club who think he’s going to be the next Kurt Warner.

I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about the people ready to name White the starter for the rest of the year. The people who believe that White should have an equal shot at the franchise QB vacancy as the #2 pick in the draft. The people who would bench Wilson next year, too. 

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3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I never get the issue with paying people. Our roster sucks, especially  on defense because we have chosen not to pay people

And some celebrate rolling over cap dollars. I get it, we don’t have much else to be happy about, but rolling over massive money every year just means your front office is too dumb to find a smart way to spend it.

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2 minutes ago, slats said:

I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about the people ready to name White the starter for the rest of the year. The people who believe that White should have an equal shot at the franchise QB vacancy as the #2 pick in the draft. The people who would bench Wilson next year, too. 

I join you in mocking those people. Although I haven’t seen anyone express that opinion. It’s possible I just missed it. Or it was some new troll account, I tend to ignore those.

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4 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

“What exactly is different about your plan over Idzik’s and Mac’s?”

”Oh, we are going to hit on our draft picks.”

 

I would say the most obvious difference was to immediately focus on getting the draft picks on the field and playing live snaps in the system. There was no rush to go out and spend cap space on vets to try and get a few more wins this year. The emphasis was on building a young core in the system.

Jason Bateman Cotton GIF

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Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

I would say the most obvious difference was to immediately focus on getting the draft picks on the field and playing live snaps in the system. There was no rush to go out and spend cap space on vets to try and get a few more wins this year. The emphasis was on building a young core in the system.

Jason Bateman Cotton GIF

Idzik hated spending money. Was a running joke. He had 12 draft picks one year. And Macc’s FA spending spree in 2019 was a direct consequence of his never hitting in a draft pick after round 1 in seven years. 
 

The JD “plan” is the same as every other GM’s plan — if you hit on draft picks, it works. If it doesn’t, ultimately the GM will go nutso on FA to try to save his own ass before he is inevitably fired.

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

I join you in mocking those people. Although I haven’t seen anyone express that opinion. It’s possible I just missed it. Or it was some new troll account, I tend to ignore those.

Some longtime posters. @Smashmouth comes immediately to mind. You were talking about White getting a shot as the long term solution before the Buffalo debacle. Lots of people were, but quieted down a bit of late. 
 
And you didn’t address the rest of that post discussing that the backup QB really hasn’t been an issue this year. They’ve gotten decent to very good play from three different backups. 

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I know Saleh has made some sort of declaration  that losing like this is essentially  part of this plan they have to turn it around. I have a really difficult  time buying this. We are losing like no other team has lost before. We are setting records in team futility.  Other teams have rebuilt without giving up or should I say bleeding in the way the Jets are. I think this is basically a PR move to try to explain the pure ineptitude that has been on display. It has been over half a season. This is long enough to get you system installed. You had OTA's, camp, preseaon, and now the season itself past the halfway point. Are they teaching these players about the origin  of black holes? They are teaching football to a bucn of players who have played football all their lives. Could it be they are not getting through?

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2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Idzik hated spending money. Was a running joke. He had 12 draft picks one year. And Macc’s FA spending spree in 2019 was a direct consequence of his never hitting in a draft pick after round 1 in seven years. 
 

The JD “plan” is the same as every other GM’s plan — if you hit on draft picks, it works. If it doesn’t, ultimately the GM will go nutso on FA to try to save his own ass before he is inevitably fired.

This isn't the JD plan. The plan is one that Saleh & JD are working on together. This is something that started this year. Saleh has seen and been a part of what he calls "the model" working in several other places and that is what they're implementing here.

If you haven't listened to the press conference I'd highly recommend it. This isn't a guy up there making braggadocios claims, he's confidently speaking of his experience and how he's applying it here.

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6 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I would say the most obvious difference was to immediately focus on getting the draft picks on the field and playing live snaps in the system. There was no rush to go out and spend cap space on vets to try and get a few more wins this year. The emphasis was on building a young core in the system.

Jason Bateman Cotton GIF

The hindsight being displayed in this thread is hilarious.  This fanbase bought billboards and flew banners over a practice fields to get the GM's they're currently pining for in this thread, fired.  Now, they were actually really not all the bad and had a great plan in place and this bozo cant tell me different!  It's really kind of fun to watch.

Remember preseason?  The overwhelming thought was; we finally have a GM focused on offense!  We took offense with 4 straight picks in the draft and he took offense with his firs 2 picks last year!!  We finally have the appropriate structure with a GM who got to hire his own coach, and they got pick their own QB!!!  This team is going to suck something awful but at least we finally have an GM and HC who are aligned with a plan.   Fast forward to the predictably terrible season we are seeing; OMG these guys have no plan.  All of our other GM's had a plan!!!! 

 

 

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JD has got the job he has because he convinced the Johnsons that he had a plan but that the plan would take X years to rebuild the roster. He can't now turn around fire the first year coach for not winning with a roster that he knows - and has said to the Johnsons - that it is not yet ready to be a winning roster. That argument won't cut it. He could feel that what Saleh said he'd do and what he did are too far apart to tolerate, and fire him on that basis, but that would require quite a serious stand off to have already developed between the two, and there are no signs yet that this is the case. So I'd say that Saleh will still be here next year - like it or not.

LaFleur started off rough but has "shown flashes" that his system can work with the right people playing it the right way. That said, his #1 yard stick to measure him against is Wilson's development. If Zach comes back and shows some improvement and promise, then LaFleur will be safe. Ulbrich I'm not so sure on. Again he has the "how can I win with backup level talent" situation, but the defense has regressed since the start of the season, and not just a small amount. There haven't been that many new injuries to deal with (Maye is the only one I can really think of, unless Mosley is still hurt worse than they're saying). So is the league just catching up to the smoke and mirrors now they have enough film? Or is it something more serious? Of everyone he's the guy most likely to be let go, and really needs a strong Nov / Dec.

Key to it all is the Johnsons - they bought into the X year plan, but are they willing to stay the course this time, in the face of public pressure? Will they reverse course after a few more bad headlines, as they have before? Or do they see enough "good news" - rookie development from Carter AVT, Moore etc - to stay the course? A better showing from Zach in the next 7 games would certainly help, but that's far from a given. What if he's just as bad? Worse? If he doesn't show improvement it'll also impact on the success stories of Carter and Moore, and those "wow" games and good showings will be forgotten by Dec / Jan.

 

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This is a true rebuild, reminds me of the Walt Michael’s era. He went 3-11 in his first year but you saw young players developing and a big upset over the Patriots who were very good that year even though that team won only 3 games. Same as this year, we’ve only won 2 games both over good teams. Michael’s team took a big jump in year 2, I expect the same with Saleh.

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If you cant see the difference between what Idzik and Macc tried to do to replenish the team (or didnt do) differently from the approach that JD and Saleh are following, quite frankly its time to just be quiet and read.  

Its stunning how many missed Salehs point and needed a presser to get clued in

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17 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This isn't the JD plan. The plan is one that Saleh & JD are working on together. This is something that started this year. Saleh has seen and been a part of what he calls "the model" working in several other places and that is what they're implementing here.

If you haven't listened to the press conference I'd highly recommend it. This isn't a guy up there making braggadocios claims, he's confidently speaking of his experience and how he's applying it here.

I still call bullsh*t. Sorry. Everyone's plan hinges on hitting on draft picks. They are all the same plan with minor variation.

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22 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This isn't the JD plan. The plan is one that Saleh & JD are working on together. This is something that started this year. Saleh has seen and been a part of what he calls "the model" working in several other places and that is what they're implementing here.

If you haven't listened to the press conference I'd highly recommend it. This isn't a guy up there making braggadocios claims, he's confidently speaking of his experience and how he's applying it here.

I'm sorry, is there something to brag about here? We just started Joe Flacco in a game. I am not listening to his press conference mainly because we are at the what do you expect him to say at this point of the season juncture. Hey, we have a plan and we are sticking to it and we knew this would be painful. Really nailed that one. 

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12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

If you cant see the difference between what Idzik and Macc tried to do to replenish the team (or didnt do) differently from the approach that JD and Saleh are following, quite frankly its time to just be quiet and read.  

Its stunning how many missed Salehs point and needed a presser to get clued in

The only difference between the rebuilding plans of John Idzik and Joe Douglas is that Idzik was jettisoned with the coach he inherited after only 2 seasons. 

I didn't think Idzik should have been fired after only 2 seasons (rightly or wrongly, I never felt he had a fair chance) and I don't think JD should be fired either.

The point of contention I think most of us have is the ridiculous talking point that we have "never seen this before".  We have. 

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39 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I would say the most obvious difference was to immediately focus on getting the draft picks on the field and playing live snaps in the system. There was no rush to go out and spend cap space on vets to try and get a few more wins this year. The emphasis was on building a young core in the system.

Jason Bateman Cotton GIF

Let me ask this. How is watching Davis who was a FA pickup and a bad one as we are now seeing helping? 

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5 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

The only difference between the rebuilding plans of John Idzik and Joe Douglas is that Idzik was jettisoned with the coach he inherited after only 2 seasons. 

I didn't think Idzik should have been fired after only 2 seasons (rightly or wrongly, I never felt he had a fair chance) and I don't think JD should be fired either.

The point of contention I think most of us have is the ridiculous talking point that we have "never seen this before".  We have. 

No we havent seen this before.  Idzik didnt have a plan, Idzik didnt gut the roster to build it back up with youth.  Thats not close to what happened here.  Im not even going near Idziks drafting acumen 

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Some fans are just way too critical of Saleh's every word.

First time as the HC speaking with the worst of the worst when it comes to media manipulation and gossip

He has been far from perfect and I too have questioned some things.

But jeez

Multiple current and former players swear by him

Fans and media were all on board as the undeniable top (rookie HC) candidate 

I thought his press conference was great yesterday.

Learned a lot about his reasoning for things.

Then I came here and its like he was caught kicking puppies down One Jets Drive

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5 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

Some fans are just way too critical of Saleh's every word.

First time as the HC speaking with the worst of the worst when it comes to media manipulation and gossip

He has been far from perfect and I too have questioned some things.

But jeez

Multiple current and former players swear by him

Fans and media were all on board as the undeniable top (rookie HC) candidate 

I thought his press conference was great yesterday.

Learned a lot about his reasoning for things.

Then I came here and its like he was caught kicking puppies down One Jets Drive

What’s his reasoning behind the team basically looking disinterested and uncompetitive every week? Or is that part of the plan too.

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I am kind of buying what JD/Saleh are trying to do.  

At some point they will need to pay FAs real money, but that often backfires and the Jets need a better base.  The fact that JD's 2020 draft class is currently meh is not helping, although without Bryce Hall this defense would be a complete disaster.  

Notwithstanding the Ryan Kalil and now GVR fiascos, JD did build an OL that is half way decent today.  Fant, AVT, McGovern and Moses are ok.  The complete whiff on RG probably cost the offense at least 50 yds/game on average.  

I am liking JD's 2021 draft more and more-Elijah Moore, and not another OL, was the pick in rd 2 because of how good he is.  This team would be much, much better, and in much better shape, if JD picked OL last year in rds 3 and 4 (and someone other than Clark) rather than the guys he did.  

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11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No we havent seen this before.  Idzik didnt have a plan, Idzik didnt gut the roster to build it back up with youth.  Thats not close to what happened here.  Im not even going near Idziks drafting acumen 

Just because he was terrible at drafting and his scouting department was a disaster doesn't mean he didn't have a plan. He tore it down, drafted a thousand guys, got the team into a good cap position and was fired after 2 seasons. 

Mr Coffee came in with a different plan - started signing free agents left and right and went into win now mode. Again, terrible execution, but it was a plan.

 

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Idzik and Mac invested in how many draftees to the offensive side of the ball during their tenure? ex. After Mac drafted his QB with the 3rd pick of the draft then he selected a 25 year old DL from Canada. And people are calling that a plan? JFC! Serenity Now!

JD's plan is to acquire top 100 picks by trading any assets. Both he and Saleh understand that losing is a byproduct of playing 1st and 2nd year players so they can get experience. But that experience will play huge dividends down the road. The Jets have 8 starters from the last two drafts, some have shined and should continue to get better. JD needs to sign better FA that fit this team, because the Feeney, Lawson, J Davis, GVR etc. aren't it. Actually they are hindering the development of some of these rookies.

JD's overall plan is to let the young players and coaches grow together, and continue to supplement the roster with young players in meaningful positions. Will it work...I don't know...but I look forward to see if it does.

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1 minute ago, y2k8 said:

Just because he was terrible at drafting and his scouting department was a disaster doesn't mean he didn't have a plan. He tore it down, drafted a thousand guys, got the team into a good cap position and was fired after 2 seasons. 

Mr Coffee came in with a different plan - started signing free agents left and right and went into win now mode. Again, terrible execution, but it was a plan.

 

What was his plan, miss on 12 draft picks?  To go onto a WR heavy draft, with a team in need of WR help and not draft one until the 4th & 5th round?  White going C Pryor in the 1st?  

He had cap room because he didnt sign anyone

Youre right about Macc, he incorrectly viewed the team as a contender that he could get over the hump with FAs.  

The difference with JD is this has been a total rebuild.  Dump the waste and bring in young potential as opposed to the usual retooling we've seen.  

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10 hours ago, ZachEY said:

I'd like to think that a competent HCing prospect would have seen what he was getting himself into, known the overall talent level of the team, sold his overall vision, and made sure, before taking the job, that the record year one, was not a factor in his continued employment.  Anyone who sold Douglas or the Johnsons that this was going to be anything other than a long, poor season was either incompetent, or lying.

Which is all well and good, except:

1. The roster is better in 2021 than it was in 2020/2019, but we're a worse team in almost every way on the field.

2. Your point is fine...if we see meaningful and material improvement in Year 2 (TBD).

The trouble with "trust us, we might suck now, but we're sucking on purpose, it's a process" is that there needs to be some signs that the process will work and is being led by the right people.

We all know no one is going to be fired after 2021, I presume we agree on that.

But there is no universe where Jets Fandom should be going into 2022 thinking "oh, it's a plan, cool, so it's ok if we suck again in 2022, no worries, because it's a plan".

So as I've said a few times, ok, great, but this franchise and this staff and this GM sure as hell better show up and deliver a lot more than what we've seen this year in 2022.    I don't think that is an unreasonable ask in any way.  

The NFL isn't the USSR in 1948, you don't get to have "5 Year Plans" without showing hard evidence on the record and on the statsheet that they're working.

 

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I know Saleh's real plan:

 

Go the Adam Gas route, Jets were stupid enough to give yet another unproven coach a 5 year multimillion dollar contract, so he will act like he is a head coach until finally his gig is up and he gets fired.  Take the millions he got for the couple miserable seasons he has as a head coach and spend more time with his wife and kids.  He ain't so braindead after all.  That's a good plan.  He won the Jets lottery, luckiest man on the planet, so don't feel sorry for him when finally he gets fired.  Man made off with millions despite us being the laughing stock of the Nfl and us Jets fans having to watch this sh*t show every week.  Man's a genious in my book for convincing Woody's to give him a 5 year contract, just not a football genious. He has the football iq of a toddler.

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1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This isn't the JD plan. The plan is one that Saleh & JD are working on together. This is something that started this year. Saleh has seen and been a part of what he calls "the model" working in several other places and that is what they're implementing here.

If you haven't listened to the press conference I'd highly recommend it. This isn't a guy up there making braggadocios claims, he's confidently speaking of his experience and how he's applying it here.

I haven’t listened. I’m still trying to decide on the proper meal to accompany it. 

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1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

So far the team sucks!

It's the production of this years draft class that is encouraging. They've got a bunch of rookies starting and taking a lot of meaningful snaps in the new systems they're installing. Some of those rookies look really good (AVT, Carter, Moore). Next year they're going to have a young core of guys that already know what they're doing, and how to play together. They're going to be able to play fast from D1.

When have the Jets done a rebuild that looks like this?

i think 1977-78. when they drafted powell, walker, klecko, alexander, robinson, dierking. in 78 they drafted ward, shuler, gaffney, pat ryan, bobby jackson.  and in 79 they added lyons, gastineau, blinka, johnny lynn.  interesting that the offensive coordinator for 77 -79 was john idzik.   idzik, jr had the blueprint for building the team.  he just didn't draft very well.

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