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Saleh: This is the first time this fanbase has experienced something like this. This is an actual plan.


Barry McCockinner
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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

The hindsight being displayed in this thread is hilarious.  This fanbase bought billboards and flew banners over a practice fields to get the GM's they're currently pining for in this thread, fired.  Now, they were actually really not all the bad and had a great plan in place and this bozo cant tell me different!  It's really kind of fun to watch.

Remember preseason?  The overwhelming thought was; we finally have a GM focused on offense!  We took offense with 4 straight picks in the draft and he took offense with his firs 2 picks last year!!  We finally have the appropriate structure with a GM who got to hire his own coach, and they got pick their own QB!!!  This team is going to suck something awful but at least we finally have an GM and HC who are aligned with a plan.   Fast forward to the predictably terrible season we are seeing; OMG these guys have no plan.  All of our other GM's had a plan!!!! 

 

 

To be fair Tanny had a plan, turned out to be a terrible one with a lot of Owner pacification moves but he at least made it worth our attention  a few seasons. Even if it was in a ,” what is this maniac Trader Mile going to do now!” Sorta way. 

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2 minutes ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

I know Saleh's real plan:

 

Go the Adam Gas route, Jets were stupid enough to give yet another unproven coach a 5 year multimillion dollar contract, so he will act like he is a head coach until finally his gig is up and he gets fired.  Take the millions he got for the couple miserable seasons he has as a head coach and spend more time with his wife and kids.  He ain't so braindead after all.  That's a good plan.

Exactly why to fans of this team, Saleh's words ring hollow.   We've all heard this supposed "trust us, we have a plan but this time it's different and will succeed if you give us three or four years to fail" mantra before.  Some might say endlessly.

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Just now, munchmemory said:

Exactly why to fans of this team, Saleh's words ring hollow.   We've all heard this supposed "trust us, we have a plan but this time it's different and will succeed if you give us three or four years to fail" mantra before.  Some might say endlessly.

You can’t bullsh*t a bullsh*tter…

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7 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Exactly why to fans of this team, Saleh's words ring hollow.   We've all heard this supposed "trust us, we have a plan but this time it's different and will succeed if you give us three or four years to fail" mantra before.  Some might say endlessly.

And the said part is the Jets fans keep falling for this.  "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" .   It's like when a dude keeps ******* up with his wife and keeps telling her "I promise this is the last time I'll change". The day they stop falling for this and stop handing over money to the Johnson's for a inferior product is the day they either sell the team or go out and do a organizational overhaul and hire competent people.  The experiment of hiring unproven coaches has to stop.  Go throw 100 mil at Harbaugh, Cowher, or Dungy and if they say no hey atleast I will admire the Woody's for trying, but these bufoons don't even try.  They just pick a coach who tells them what they want to hear but has no clue on how to run a football team and has never proven that he can be a head coach in college yet alone the Nfl.

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2 minutes ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

And the said part is the Jets fans keep falling for this.  "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" .   It's like when a dude keeps ******* up with his wife and keeps telling her "I promise this is the last time I'll change". The day they stop falling for this and stop handing over money to the Johnson's for a inferior product is the day they either sell the team or go out and do a organizational overhaul and hire competent people.

If the plan is using the Seahawks pick to get Russell Wilson then I’ll take it all back. I have my doubts though. 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Some longtime posters. @Smashmouth comes immediately to mind. You were talking about White getting a shot as the long term solution before the Buffalo debacle. Lots of people were, but quieted down a bit of late. 

I may be one you're referencing as well.

I've said it a few times, but worth repeating:  I do not care who our future great QB is, or where that guy gets drafted or how he is acquired.  I only care that he be legit.

After White's first three appearances, IMO he looked pretty legit-enough to me compared to Wilson so far (sadly, the injury in start #2 for White was really fatal to his opportunity).  Had White not been hurt vs. the Colts and put up a great game (as he appeared to be on his way to do), that would have been two great games in a row.  Yes, I ride that "hot hand" till it stops being hot, even with the #2 pick (and worst starting QB in the NFL) sitting healing on the sidelines.  I remain unconvinced in re: the arm strength criticism of White being fatal, seeing him as a pre-injury Pennington type, more than adequate enough.

Buffalo was a bummer, but I maintain that anyone who thinks the Wilson we've watched this year would have done meaningfully better than White in that game is fooling themselves.  We'll never know, sadly, since Wilson (like Darnold before him) has now missed a chunk of time in his rookie year due to injury.  All we can do is speculate.

But ultimately, for White to capitalize on his opportunity, he had to stay healthy and he had to stack great performance on great performance in multiple games while Wilson was gone, winning more of them than he lost.  When it became clear he wasn't going to do that, guys like me were 100% fine with the idea of Wilson starting again once he got healthy. 

My objection was (and is) playing Joe "no future" Flacco over White.  White has a potential future here, even if only as a #2 QB.  Seeing him play is more important than playing Flacco, and I'm unconvinced Flacco is better, today, than White could be vs. the Dolphins.

My speculation (since we'll never know) is that White was not 100% and that factored into the decision to play Flacco.  As did the staff and GM justifying the trade (a poor trade by any evaluation) for Flacco.  Regardless, it's over and done, White clearly failed to make the most of his opportunity because he was fragile as an egg back there, to quote a phrase.  He got his shot, his body wasn't up the challenge.  Such is life.

Now, Wilson should be 100% at this point (or as close as is needed to be in the NFL), and should start vs. the Texans.  I don't think anyone wants anyone else to start but Wilson for that game, myself included.  White should be 100% and should be the #2 against the Texans.

And we all should remain rooting that Wilson lives up to his billing and starts performing at a high level.  Because the odds say he's our shot at that legit QB right now.  I have my doubts, long and verbosely expressed elsewhere and previously, but he's still the best shot on the roster today at that, so lets see what he can do Sunday vs. the no-account 29/30 ranked Texans Defense. 

The best way to silence doubters and make the backup irrelevant is with performance and production and wins.

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14 minutes ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

I know Saleh's real plan:

 

Go the Adam Gas route, Jets were stupid enough to give yet another unproven coach a 5 year multimillion dollar contract, so he will act like he is a head coach until finally his gig is up and he gets fired.  Take the millions he got for the couple miserable seasons he has as a head coach and spend more time with his wife and kids.  He ain't so braindead after all.  That's a good plan.  He won the Jets lottery, luckiest man on the planet, so don't feel sorry for him when finally he gets fired.  Man made off with millions despite us being the laughing stock of the Nfl and us Jets fans having to watch this sh*t show every week.  Man's a genious in my book for convincing Woody's to give him a 5 year contract, just not a football genious. He has the football iq of a toddler.

I guess this is realistically consistent with your screen name. 

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57 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I know Saleh has made some sort of declaration  that losing like this is essentially  part of this plan they have to turn it around. I have a really difficult  time buying this. We are losing like no other team has lost before. We are setting records in team futility.  Other teams have rebuilt without giving up or should I say bleeding in the way the Jets are. I think this is basically a PR move to try to explain the pure ineptitude that has been on display. It has been over half a season. This is long enough to get you system installed. You had OTA's, camp, preseaon, and now the season itself past the halfway point. Are they teaching these players about the origin  of black holes? They are teaching football to a bucn of players who have played football all their lives. Could it be they are not getting through?

I think this Jets team is losing a lot like the Cowboys did in Jimmy Johnson's first year. The Cowboys were not very competitive at all in the first half of the season.  Even though they didn't let up as many points as the Jets have, it was 1989 and teams didn't score as much. But, even in that atmosphere the Cowboys were typically giving up 30 or more points in games. The O finished dead last and the D was bottom 4 or 5. While the Cowboys were a more competitive in their last few games, they won only 1 game that season. 

Why was a team destined for multiple championships so bad in year 1? Because they played a lot of rookies, were installing new systems, and were dedicated to building through the draft. No one is saying the Jets will be the 1990's Cowboys, I'm just saying this is what it looks like in year 1 with a new coaching staff installing new systems and playing lots of rookies.  Also, as far as the Jets D goes the injuries to Lawson, Maye, Curry and Joyner were enormous losses. 

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1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I think this Jets team is losing a lot like the Cowboys did in Jimmy Johnson's first year. The Cowboys were not very competitive at all in the first half of the season.  Even though they didn't let up as many points as the Jets have, it was 1989 and teams didn't score as much. But, even in that atmosphere the Cowboys were typically giving up 30 or more points in games. The O finished dead last and the D was bottom 4 or 5. While the Cowboys were a more competitive in their last few games, they won only 1 game that season. 

Why was a team destined for multiple championships so bad in year 1? Because they played a lot of rookies, were installing new systems, and were dedicated to building through the draft. No one is saying the Jets will be the 1990's Cowboys, I'm just saying this is what it looks like in year 1 with a new coaching staff installing new systems and playing lots of rookies.  Also, as far as the Jets D goes the injuries to Lawson, Maye, Curry and Joyner were enormous losses. 

Lmao more excuses from Jets fan's in denial, "well these hall of fame coaches sucked their 1st years so it's good that Saleh sucks his 1st year because he will follow in their footsteps and become a hall of fame coach obviously right".  "Well it's good that Zach Wilson throws 4 picks every game, because so did Peyton Manning, so he must be following in Peyton Manning's footsteps all the way to the hall of fame right?" 

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25 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What was his plan, miss on 12 draft picks?  To go onto a WR heavy draft, with a team in need of WR help and not draft one until the 4th & 5th round?  White going C Pryor in the 1st?  

He had cap room because he didnt sign anyone

Youre right about Macc, he incorrectly viewed the team as a contender that he could get over the hump with FAs.  

The difference with JD is this has been a total rebuild.  Dump the waste and bring in young potential as opposed to the usual retooling we've seen.  

I'm quite sure his plan was to hit on at least half of the 12 picks, replenish the roster with young talent, create cap space to position the team to compete in year 3 and 4 with a HC of his choosing.

You are confusing strategy (his plan) with tactics (his execution).

There was nothing wrong with Idzik's plan, in and of itself. It was a total rebuild. 

His execution was obviously terrible given the draft results.

So, this is not a new, previously untried plan. The difference being that the previous rebuild was prematurely aborted.

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Just now, pleasefireSelahnow said:

Lmao more excuses from Jets fan's in denial, "well these hall of fame coaches sucked their 1st years so it's good that Saleh sucks his 1st year because he will follow in their footsteps and become a hall of fame coach obviously right".  "Well it's good that Zach Wilson throws 4 picks every game, because so did Peyton Manning, so he must be following in Peyton Manning's footsteps all the way to the hall of fame right?" 

Picture us all on the Jets Fan Carousel grasping hopelessly at the brass ring, which some sadist has positioned out of our reach.

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6 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I think this Jets team is losing a lot like the Cowboys did in Jimmy Johnson's first year. The Cowboys were not very competitive at all in the first half of the season.  Even though they didn't let up as many points as the Jets have, it was 1989 and teams didn't score as much. But, even in that atmosphere the Cowboys were typically giving up 30 or more points in games. The O finished dead last and the D was bottom 4 or 5. While the Cowboys were a more competitive in their last few games, they won only 1 game that season. 

Why was a team destined for multiple championships so bad in year 1? Because they played a lot of rookies, were installing new systems, and were dedicated to building through the draft. No one is saying the Jets will be the 1990's Cowboys, I'm just saying this is what it looks like in year 1 with a new coaching staff installing new systems and playing lots of rookies.  Also, as far as the Jets D goes the injuries to Lawson, Maye, Curry and Joyner were enormous losses. 

Great point and even more so to a team that is mostly 1st and 2nd year guys.

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7 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I think this Jets team is losing a lot like the Cowboys did in Jimmy Johnson's first year. The Cowboys were not very competitive at all in the first half of the season.  Even though they didn't let up as many points as the Jets have, it was 1989 and teams didn't score as much. But, even in that atmosphere the Cowboys were typically giving up 30 or more points in games. The O finished dead last and the D was bottom 4 or 5. While the Cowboys were a more competitive in their last few games, they won only 1 game that season. 

Why was a team destined for multiple championships so bad in year 1? Because they played a lot of rookies, were installing new systems, and were dedicated to building through the draft. No one is saying the Jets will be the 1990's Cowboys, I'm just saying this is what it looks like in year 1 with a new coaching staff installing new systems and playing lots of rookies.  Also, as far as the Jets D goes the injuries to Lawson, Maye, Curry and Joyner were enormous losses. 

Correct me if I'm  wrong but weren't  Michael Irvin and Troy Aikman already on the team?

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8 minutes ago, Claymation said:

And the suck for Sam mantra wasn't a full rebuild plan, it was trying to get a young QB because if it was a full rebuild you aren't drafting 3 DT (Shepperd, Foley & Q Williams) before you draft an OT in Edoga. 

Nathan Shepherd was a third round pick with the 72 selection in the 2018 draft. The Baltimore Ravens had 2 picks after Shepherd in the third round. Who did they pick?  Orlando Brown, Jr at 83 and Mark Andrews at 86. I can think of no clearer demonstration of the difference between a winning and losing franchise.

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25 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Which is all well and good, except:

1. The roster is better in 2021 than it was in 2020/2019, but we're a worse team in almost every way on the field.

2. Your point is fine...if we see meaningful and material improvement in Year 2 (TBD).

The trouble with "trust us, we might suck now, but we're sucking on purpose, it's a process" is that there needs to be some signs that the process will work and is being led by the right people.

We all know no one is going to be fired after 2021, I presume we agree on that.

But there is no universe where Jets Fandom should be going into 2022 thinking "oh, it's a plan, cool, so it's ok if we suck again in 2022, no worries, because it's a plan".

So as I've said a few times, ok, great, but this franchise and this staff and this GM sure as hell better show up and deliver a lot more than what we've seen this year in 2022.    I don't think that is an unreasonable ask in any way.  

The NFL isn't the USSR in 1948, you don't get to have "5 Year Plans" without showing hard evidence on the record and on the statsheet that they're working.

 

I'm not sure I agree with point 1.  I'm not sure it's worse, but I'm not sure it's better.  I think it's potentially better, but it's extremely young as well.  We lead the league, by a substantial margin, in snaps taken by rookies.

A more competitive team THIS year was certainly possible, but the way to accomplish it was with big contracts that you wouldn't really want long term.  I am glad they're not doing that, specifically.

And, I agree, we need to see progress, but there are some glimmers of it.  Not in totality, but the fact is, this past draft is basically chalk-full of the only guys you want on this team at all.  And, overall, if we accept that the guys you want on this team are generally the young guys, AVT, Hall, Carter x2, Moore, there's reason to be optimistic, that another draft with a bunch top end resources should add a lot more valuable pieces.

2022 itself, and the outcome there, really rests on Wilson.  So, we shall see.

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29 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i think 1977-78. when they drafted powell, walker, klecko, alexander, robinson, dierking. in 78 they drafted ward, shuler, gaffney, pat ryan, bobby jackson.  and in 79 they added lyons, gastineau, blinka, johnny lynn.  interesting that the offensive coordinator for 77 -79 was john idzik.   idzik, jr had the blueprint for building the team.  he just didn't draft very well.

before my time. obviously you have to pick good players regardless of whether you have a good plan.

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3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Nathan Shepherd was a third round pick with the 72 selection in the 2018 draft. The Baltimore Ravens had 2 picks after Shepherd in the third round. Who did they pick?  Orlando Brown, Jr at 83 and Mark Andrews at 86. I can think of no clearer demonstration of the difference between a winning and losing franchise.

And they saw something in Lamar Jackson, that the Browns who drafted Bumass Baker Mayfield and the Jets who drafted Bumass Darnold missed.  That's why the Jets and the Browns will always be laughing stocks of the Nfl and other orginzation's are so good. 

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13 minutes ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

Lmao more excuses from Jets fan's in denial, "well these hall of fame coaches sucked their 1st years so it's good that Saleh sucks his 1st year because he will follow in their footsteps and become a hall of fame coach obviously right".  "Well it's good that Zach Wilson throws 4 picks every game, because so did Peyton Manning, so he must be following in Peyton Manning's footsteps all the way to the hall of fame right?" 

Heres the thing, most teams that fire their HC and hire new ones do so because they weren't good the year before.  Where you get the rest of your nonsense is the question.  

And which banned troll you are under the misspelled name

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5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Correct me if I'm  wrong but weren't  Michael Irvin and Troy Aikman already on the team?

I am not sure of your point. but yes they were. Aikman was a rookie. He had 11 starts and went 0-11 completing 52.9% of his passes for 9 TDs and 18 Int.  Irvin was in his second year and had 6 starts (due to injury) with 26 catches for 378 yards and 2 TDs. They were clearly not yet the HOF players they went on to become.  

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1 minute ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

And they saw something in Lamar Jackson, that the Browns who drafted Bumass Baker Mayfield and the Jets who drafted Bumass Darnold missed.  That's why the Jets and the Browns will always be laughing stocks of the Nfl and other orginzation's are so good. 

You mean besides Jackson being the only QB left in the draft? 

 

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34 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i think 1977-78. when they drafted powell, walker, klecko, alexander, robinson, dierking. in 78 they drafted ward, shuler, gaffney, pat ryan, bobby jackson.  and in 79 they added lyons, gastineau, blinka, johnny lynn.  interesting that the offensive coordinator for 77 -79 was john idzik.   idzik, jr had the blueprint for building the team.  he just didn't draft very well.

I'm fairly certain Walt Michaels' fingerprints were all over those drafts.

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9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Heres the thing, most teams that fire their HC and hire new ones do so because they weren't good the year before.  Where you get the rest of your nonsense is the question.  

And which banned troll you are under the misspelled name

Oh ya so it's ok to suck to just because the head coach prior to your hire sucked to?  Tell that to sean payton, Bill Cowher, Dennis Green, Mike Tomlin, Mcdermott.  This is nonsense, Jets have had top draft picks in the last 12 years, there is no reason why they should continue to suck.  "Oh my god Bill Bellichik went 5-11 his 1st year to so we got our franchise Saviour here, Robert softee I can't call a timeout with the game clock expiring is leading us to a Superbowl next year guaranteed"!  Our Messiah is here I am so stupid for not realizing this.  Let's rationalize things by comparing someone who has never won anything and never made a name for himself in the Nfl to hall of famers because they sucked to their 1st year and it makes us feel better.

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6 minutes ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

Oh ya so it's ok to suck to just because the head coach prior to your hire sucked to?  Tell that to sean payton, Bill Cowher, Dennis Green, Mike Tomlin, Mcdermott.  This is nonsense, Jets have had top draft picks in the last 12 years, there is no reason why they should continue to suck.

The last twelve years or whatever youre talking has absolutely nothing to do with Robert Saleh.  This is a pointless argument.  Especially its not like those top picks created a loaded roster for him to coach

Whos said that because sone good HCs started off losing, if you start off losing you'll become a good HC

Youre just trolling and dont know how to copy and paste without telling everyone that youre copying and pasting lol

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2 hours ago, slats said:

Some longtime posters. @Smashmouth comes immediately to mind. You were talking about White getting a shot as the long term solution before the Buffalo debacle. Lots of people were, but quieted down a bit of late. 
 
And you didn’t address the rest of that post discussing that the backup QB really hasn’t been an issue this year. They’ve gotten decent to very good play from three different backups. 

Buffalo was by no means a debacle. Only thing White did wrong in a game our OL got destroyed in as did our DL was try to make things happen buy trying to attack downfield. By doing that he threw some Int's that were into double coverage but the game was already out of hand. Corey Davis really ****ed both his team and his young QB with his fumble before the half which could have turned the momentum on a very nice pass from White which could have changed what happened in the second half. By no means would we have won that game based on that one play but that one play certainly paved the way for Buffalos  2 consecutive scores one before the half and one when they got the ball in the second ruining any chance we had to do anything. Buffalo Stole the momentum we should have had but Davis is making a habit of either dropping big 3rd down passes or turning the ball over in big spots.

I'll say this again NO QB has played well against the Bills this year not one. Even in the blow out vs the Colts Wentz threw for 106 Yards while his running game gashed the Bills. White played well in every outing until he ran into the Bills and IMHO it was a bad move to just turn away from that. if you wanted to get the offense some stability well then why not go with White who besides Johnson was the only QB on this roster to get the offense going and he did it vs a top five defense in The Bengals. 

If Jets fans want to ignore what Buffalo has done to every QB they faced Including Mahomes so be it, I'm not ready to do that and Im certainly not ready to condemn White based on one bad start when he's only had 3 in his career.

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

The last twelve years or whatever youre talking has absolutely nothing to do with Robert Saleh.  This is a pointless argument.  Especially its not like those top picks created a loaded roster for him to coach

Whos said that because sone good HCs started off losing, if you start off losing you'll become a good HC

Youre just trolling

Just because my opinion is different than your doesn't mean I am a troll, so Saleh has nothing to do with Zach Wilson's development and for the defense something he is supposed to be good at looking like a embarrasment right.  Zach Wilson should just figure it all out on his own?

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3 minutes ago, pleasefireSelahnow said:

Just because my opinion is different than your doesn't mean I am a troll, so Saleh has nothing to do with Zach Wilson's development and for the defense something he is supposed to be good at looking like a embarrasment right.  Zach Wilson should just figure it all out on his own?

Youre a troll, own it.  Youre here to troll the board.  

Saleh has nothing to do with the things you just posted, yes.  The HC doesnt develop the QB.  Thats what the OC, the QBC etc are for.

 

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29 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

I'm quite sure his plan was to hit on at least half of the 12 picks, replenish the roster with young talent, create cap space to position the team to compete in year 3 and 4 with a HC of his choosing.

You are confusing strategy (his plan) with tactics (his execution).

There was nothing wrong with Idzik's plan, in and of itself. It was a total rebuild. 

His execution was obviously terrible given the draft results.

So, this is not a new, previously untried plan. The difference being that the previous rebuild was prematurely aborted.

If his plan was all about acquiring draft picks and having no idea how to use them, then that isn't a plan. That is part of a plan. He allowed the HC dictate who they should be drafting. The Louisville slugger? Mash Unit Millner?

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