JD: Are we in year 2 or 3?

[Bleedin Green]

16 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Mike Gronkowski retired (and lost like 30 pounds during it)

Bruce Arians retired

Plenty of other examples

So, meh to the retired = a red flag thing

It was a no-win situation absent the benefit of hindsight. There were no winning moves, and in terms of significance this was small potatoes anyway. That is, unless you're going to name the starting center you knew in July/Aug 2019 would be even better.  At the time, probably 90% of fans at the time were behind and happy with taking that shot on Kalil. The big concern was durability, but even most who had that concern were happy that he was at least the line would be better until he gets hurt, and were behind at least making a reasonable effort to improve over starting an obvious backup center for 16 games. 

There's plenty of legit Douglas stuff to find fault with - including the mindless Griffin extension at midseason - but this is a hindsight complaint. Frankly both are small potatoes moves in comparison and, to the greater point in this thread, hardly indicative of crediting 2019 as a full GM season.

This explanation only works if looked at in a vacuum, but it turns out he's continued to suck at his evaluation of the position for years now, which is what makes it a relevant point when it is the start of what is still a continuing trend.

That year is certainly not all-defining for JD by any measure, but it also has no reason to be completely thrown out when showing the first round of some failures in 2019 that have since been repeated in 2020 and 2021.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

On 11/23/2021 at 11:29 AM, munchmemory said:

So a first time GM and HC (the guy whose defense blew the Super Bowl with SF) are now considered "football people"?

I answered this so quickly that I COMPLETELY glossed over something you said. Yes! The guy whose defense went to the SUPER BOWL is football people. 

[munchmemory]

Just now, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I answered this so quickly that I COMPLETELY glossed over something you said. Yes! The guy whose defense went to the SUPER BOWL is football people. 

Saleh's D just needed to hold the 20-10 lead with half the fourth quarter gone.   Oooops.   Choked it.  

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

5 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Saleh's D just needed to hold the 20-10 lead with half the fourth quarter gone.   Oooops.   Choked it.  

Again. In the SUPER BOWL. 

Oooooops.

[munchmemory]

Just now, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Again. In the SUPER BOWL. 

Oooooops.

If this is your only hope for the team?   You might want to switch over to the Bills.   They blew four.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

4 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

If this is your only hope for the team?   You might want to switch over to the Bills.   They blew four.

For the people at home. Robert Saleh is not "football people" because his defense blew a 20-10 lead in the SUPER BOWL against Pat Mahomes. What an embarrassment. Imagine making it to the SUPER BOWL and losing to Patrick Mahomes, Tyreek Hill, and Travis Kelce. A team coached by Andy Reid.

 

[BurntDice]

On 11/23/2021 at 6:20 PM, Bleedin Green said:

Except Kalil was an indisputably substantially worse center than Harrison, which is really saying something.  That on it's own might be forgivable if it wasn't for the continuing trend with the likes of McGovern and Van Roten.  He also showed the first sign of what has been the continuing incompetence of kicker, as every one he's brought in has come in ranked somewhere in the mid-to-late 30s in every statistic, meaning multiple other teams would regularly pick up guys off the street in the middle of the year better than anyone JD has ever been able to find.  The Griffin move I have no problem with given the cheap cost, although it still is yet another position where he made the first failed move at a position he's continually shown an inability to find even the most moderate of talent.

On a relative scale, none of those are in any way particularly career-defining moments for him, but there's also no reason to throw out the beginning of what are now continuous trends throughout his entire time here, unless trying to force a narrative of innocence.  In the end, he'll live or die by Zach Wilson, but the rest of these things all still happened and are now repeated failures that have yet to be corrected.

You realize McGovern has been a top 10 center these past 6 or so weeks right? He was also a top 10ish center in 2019 before signing here. He’s got a good 5 years left in him and is starting to get into his groove with this system. 

[munchmemory]

58 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

For the people at home. Robert Saleh is not "football people" because his defense blew a 20-10 lead in the SUPER BOWL against Pat Mahomes. What an embarrassment. Imagine making it to the SUPER BOWL and losing to Patrick Mahomes, Tyreek Hill, and Travis Kelce. A team coached by Andy Reid.

 

I take it back.   You're the perfect Jet fan.

[rox]

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

23 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

I take it back.   You're the perfect Jet fan.

[Sperm Edwards]

11 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

This explanation only works if looked at in a vacuum, but it turns out he's continued to suck at his evaluation of the position for years now, which is what makes it a relevant point when it is the start of what is still a continuing trend.

That year is certainly not all-defining for JD by any measure, but it also has no reason to be completely thrown out when showing the first round of some failures in 2019 that have since been repeated in 2020 and 2021.

I'm merely pointing to it in the context of that year being less than a full season. This was, at the time, viewed favorably by pretty much everyone. The only pessimism was over him lasting the season healthy.

e.g. how's this for someone clearly expecting Kalil to be an on-field upgrade over Harrison?

On 8/1/2019 at 2:51 PM, Bleedin Green said:

The funny thing is, under different circumstances, I might actually not like it so much.  But right now, it's all about Darnold, so all bets are off.  This would normally seem like a move for more of a "win now" team as opposed to one still rebuilding, but helping out Darnold supersedes everything these days.

So...hindsight.?

[DepressedJetsFan23]

I’m pro JD, disappointed with what I have seen but can’t deny I want to see his “vision” through because I can not mentally handle another rebuild process. But….I can’t deny the first year he was hired. Which he had the least involvement, will probably have more wins than the next two seasons of his control combined. Again I am pro JD having time, but I am worried about this simple fact. 

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

He’s had 2 drafts and 2 free agency periods. So I’ll say he’s in year 2.

His record over this time is 4-22 so far. 

I understand that he took over a bad roster but he hasn’t exactly made it better yet… 

and don’t tell me this is year 1 of the rebuild. that’s laughable. His 1st draft here was terrible. His 2nd draft is looking pretty solid. But we can’t just pretend that 1st draft didn’t happen or doesn’t matter. 

next year is year 3 and if the team isn’t competitive (it won’t be) he should be shown the door. 

[Uncle Nicco]

Guess what: it doesn’t matter 

[y2k8]

On 11/24/2021 at 4:53 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

Mike Gronkowski retired (and lost like 30 pounds during it)

Bruce Arians retired

Plenty of other examples

So, meh to the retired = a red flag thing

It was a no-win situation absent the benefit of hindsight. There were no winning moves, and in terms of significance this was small potatoes anyway. That is, unless you're going to name the starting center you knew in July/Aug 2019 would be even better.  At the time, probably 90% of fans at the time were behind and happy with taking that shot on Kalil. The big concern was durability, but even most who had that concern were happy that he was at least the line would be better until he gets hurt, and were behind at least making a reasonable effort to improve over starting an obvious backup center for 16 games. 

There's plenty of legit Douglas stuff to find fault with - including the mindless Griffin extension at midseason - but this is a hindsight complaint. Frankly both are small potatoes moves in comparison and, to the greater point in this thread, hardly indicative of crediting 2019 as a full GM season.

Gronk is a HoFer. He also took a year off to heal himself.

Your other example is a coach.

Plenty others?

Name another o-lineman that came back and didn't have a similar result.. 

[slats]

Imagine my surprise when I realized that the few votes for year three seem to include most of Joe Douglas’ most vocal detractors. I mean, who saw that coming? 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, y2k8 said:

Gronk is a HoFer. He also took a year off to heal himself.

Your other example is a coach.

Plenty others?

Name another o-lineman that came back and didn't have a similar result.. 

You want to keep moving the goalposts you can go ahead with someone else. There have been a number of players at various positions who came back from retirement, and who sat out a hell of a lot longer than Kalil. I'd be more pessimistic about an older retiree returning to play a skill position.  

Kalil was retired for a few months, all of it a single offseason's late winter/spring when most players are doing next to nothing anyway, and then passed a physical before the signing was official.

It was a reasonable signing for a team in need of just his position, when there was no one else available. 

[kmnj]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Imagine my surprise when I realized that the few votes for year three seem to include most of Joe Douglas’ most vocal detractors. I mean, who saw that coming? 

when u are getting paid you are working

I bet he paid taxes on his checks because he was getting income

I bet the jets who paid him those checks count them as part of his tenure

only joe d fan boys think a guy that is getting checks is not working-he had and did make moves when he took over in "year" one and they were terrible just like his draft was

his second draft looks to be good so far but far too little exists in overall improvement of the roster and his coach sucks too

Joe and his 4 wins put him near the bottom of the NFL the past two years-not exactly "winning" as they say

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, kmnj said:

when u are getting paid you are working

I bet he paid taxes on his checks because he was getting income

I bet the jets who paid him those checks count them as part of his tenure

only joe d fan boys think a guy that is getting checks is not working-he had and did make moves when he took over in "year" one and they were terrible just like his draft was

his second draft looks to be good so far but far too little exists in overall improvement of the roster and his coach sucks too

Joe and his 4 wins put him near the bottom of the NFL the past two years-not exactly "winning" as they say

He's not getting fired this year because Saleh's not getting fired this year. One would think the Johnson boobs at least learned what happens when you fire only the GM after a huge letdown season, and then look for a GM to take over, tied to a HC coming off a horrible season in his first year ever doing it. 

If Douglas continues to be terrible he should be fired. I'm pretty down on his FA moves, but so far you've got 2 drafts and 1 of the 2 drafts look good (your words). That's going to buy any GM another season unless there's a personality conflict. 

An NFL season has a full FA period and a draft period, where the GM is on an equal plane with other GMs for that season. He's had 2 of those. The team has looked terrible in those two seasons, so reality is enough without exaggeration. 

[kmnj]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He's not getting fired this year because Saleh's not getting fired this year. One would think the Johnson boobs at least learned what happens when you fire only the GM after a huge letdown season, and then look for a GM to take over, tied to a HC coming off a horrible season in his first year ever doing it. 

If Douglas continues to be terrible he should be fired. I'm pretty down on his FA moves, but so far you've got 2 drafts and 1 of the 2 drafts look good (your words). That's going to buy any GM another season unless there's a personality conflict. 

An NFL season has a full FA period and a draft period, where the GM is on an equal plane with other GMs for that season. He's had 2 of those. The team has looked terrible in those two seasons, so reality is enough without exaggeration. 

joe will be here through end of next year for sure as will his terrible coach that he hired-woody and co dont like paying coaches that are no longer coaching same goes for gms and they usually hire coaches and gms on the cheap

joe's  best move is getting some to say each year is the new year one of his rebuild

next year we will hear he drafted lots of new players and he needs 2-3 years for them to learn the game and the system

plenty of folks discount all of his time and say it is year one now with new coach and new qb

Saleh will last through next year then Joe fires him for his reboot of year one with his "first year" coach

 

[CSNY]

Wow three pages on how long JD is here when it is simple math. 
JD is IN his third year of a 6 year deal That is the only correct answer to the question

Other statements are opinions of posters 
 

All this arguing of how long JD is here is rather silly 

[kmnj]

42 minutes ago, CSNY said:

Wow three pages on how long JD is here when it is simple math. 
JD is his third year of a 6 year deal That is the only correct answer to the question

Other statements are opinions of posters 
 

All this arguing of how long JD is here is rather silly 

same folks that ignore this simple truth think Joe is doing a great job and has a great roster while once again ignoring the reality of his 4 wins and all of those losses his team has accumulated in his tenure even worse many were not even remotely competitive 

[Prodigal Syndicate]

For the actually its year 1 people.

 

What was Douglas doing the rest of the time? Was that him trying to compete?

[Prodigal Syndicate]

47 minutes ago, CSNY said:

Wow three pages on how long JD is here when it is simple math. 
JD is IN his third year of a 6 year deal That is the only correct answer to the question

Other statements are opinions of posters 
 

All this arguing of how long JD is here is rather silly 

Yup.

 

He is where his contract states he is. This is quite literally a non disputable fact.

[Matt39]

Jets fans explaining what year it actually is:

 

 

[CSNY]

13 minutes ago, kmnj said:

same folks that ignore this simple truth think Joe is doing a great job and has a great roster while once again ignoring the reality of his 4 wins and all of those losses his team has accumulated in his tenure even worse many were not even remotely competitive 

You can argue whether or Not JD is doing a great , good or poor job ( I am of the opinion he is doing a good job had some misses and some hits as has been debated in many many threads only time will tell next draft is a big one for this regime ) but length of time here is indisputable It’s simple math people that’s all so let’s put this one to bed and get on with gorging ourselves on yesterday’s leftovers ?

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

41 minutes ago, CSNY said:

Wow three pages on how long JD is here when it is simple math. 
JD is his third year of a 6 year deal That is the only correct answer to the question

Other statements are opinions of posters 
 

All this arguing of how long JD is here is rather silly 

All true but not why this is stupid.

Narratives are retrospective. The only way to identify the turning point is to wait for them to actually accomplish something and then work backward from there. Deciding what year it is currently and then calibrating expectations based on that is just absurd.

This is Douglas's third season. The only realistic way it turns out to be year number whatever of anything is as year one with Saleh and Wilson. This is all just words. None of it is operational.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, CSNY said:

Wow three pages on how long JD is here when it is simple math. 
JD is IN his third year of a 6 year deal That is the only correct answer to the question

Other statements are opinions of posters 
 

All this arguing of how long JD is here is rather silly 

How many FA periods and how many drafts? That's where a GM's chief success or failure are made. It's not a full GM season without them. I count two. 

F*** I'm not even a particular fan of Douglas's -- I've been referred to as one of his haters a number of times, but posts like this make him look more sympathetic.

[CSNY]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

F*** I'm not even a particular fan of Douglas's -- I've been referred to as one of his haters a number of times, but posts like this make him look more sympathetic.

Can’t see how it’s a sympathetic post. Just stating a simple fact that is all 

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, CSNY said:

Can’t see how it’s a sympathetic post. Just stating a simple fact that is all 

It's like criticizing the 2nd man in a relay race after the guy running the first leg is already behind by 30 yards by the time he passes the baton, and then saying (of the 2nd leg), "Well, you ran that race and lost. Oh, and #facts or something."

[y2k8]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You want to keep moving the goalposts you can go ahead with someone else. There have been a number of players at various positions who came back from retirement, and who sat out a hell of a lot longer than Kalil. I'd be more pessimistic about an older retiree returning to play a skill position.  

Kalil was retired for a few months, all of it a single offseason's late winter/spring when most players are doing next to nothing anyway, and then passed a physical before the signing was official.

It was a reasonable signing for a team in need of just his position, when there was no one else available. 

So you couldn't think of anyone.

You should have just said that and saved some calories.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

So you couldn't think of anyone.

You should have just said that and saved some calories.

I had a decent list of others a few days ago and figured this thread would die. If it means that much to you I'll pull it up when I'm home. But then you owe me an hour of spooning.

[Bleedin Green]

21 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm merely pointing to it in the context of that year being less than a full season. This was, at the time, viewed favorably by pretty much everyone. The only pessimism was over him lasting the season healthy.

e.g. how's this for someone clearly expecting Kalil to be an on-field upgrade over Harrison?

So...hindsight.?

If your argument is that those employed by the Jets can never be expected to be in any way more competent at jobs they are paid millions to do than any random person, then I will freely admit, there is a significant amount of evidence to support that being the team's long-standing policy.

 

It's just a shame the "hindsight" of him sucking ass was a lot quicker for many around here to figure out than the Jets, who needed to be forced by injury to actually improve the team.

On 9/17/2019 at 9:29 AM, Bleedin Green said:

Kalil's own play has not only sucked, but he was making the line calls, right?  Because if so, that was an unforgivable level of awful last night.  Never before have I seen such a ridiculous volume of rushers coming through completely unblocked.  And we're not even talking blitzers here, but actual DL that just came off the line with no one even trying to block them.  Insane.

Unless of course we're now going by the concept that folks shouldn't criticize anything the team does if they didn't despise it from the very instance it was made.  However, if that's the road we're going down, can I recommend changing your name to "Sperm Wins Championships"?

It just has an interesting ring to it... in so many different ways.

[Bleedin Green]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I had a decent list of others a few days ago and figured this thread would die. If it means that much to you I'll pull it up when I'm home. But then you owe me an hour of spooning.

See?  I knew it!  Sperm really does win championships.

[TuscanyTile2]

On 11/25/2021 at 12:15 PM, munchmemory said:

If this is your only hope for the team?   You might want to switch over to the Bills.   They blew four.

"Boy I Love Losing Superbowls!"