Interesting Observation - Jets Offense

[NYJ37/12]

no Carter will not help

[#27TheDominator]

You can put me squarely in the it was (mostly) Zach's fault.  He simply did not execute the simple stuff.  Those obvious failures prevented 1st downs and limited drives and offensive snaps.   It wasn't all his fault, but the idea that LaFleur suddenly learned to call a game, the offensive line suddenly learned to block and the receivers to catch is a joke.  The line should be gelling, but the run game hasn't exactly taken off.  I think most of it has been through the air, even if it was primarily on dinks and dunks. 

[Claymation]

The Jets still have one of the worst running attacks in Football, and that falls mostly on the line.

While they have gotten better in pass protection since the 1st 3 games (15 sacks), so has the receivers in drop balls (13 Drops) sans Mims. To simply say that the failure of the offense falls squarely on Zach's shoulder is a bit naive. Every aspect of that offense was learning a new system. Plus the Jets are now throwing more on 1st than in the beginning of the season.

[Beerfish]

On 11/24/2021 at 6:48 AM, Snell41 said:

 

Nonsense. Total utter nonsense. It boggles the mind that all our backup QB’s have solid success in the system and the conclusion of Zach fans is that the OC, OL, RB’s, and WR’s all had marked improvements in their game not because Zach is gone (mainly the only thing that changed), but because all of those units suddenly and coincidentally had an epiphany on how to play competent football the day after Zach was no longer the starter. Knock it off. Our offense sucked with Zach for one reason and one reason alone-because Zach sucked. Hopefully he can stop sucking, but I’m not holding my breath.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

The 'systems' has marketedly changed, anyone can see that.  We ere totally gase like, hand off into the line twice and then face 3rd and long.  Our oline was much worse than it has been lately.  So no, not utter nonsense.

As I said in my post, if Wilson falls on his ass now you can put it all on him.  To ignore the actual change in the offense is what is nonsense.

[Sonny Werblin]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The 'systems' has market changed, anyone can see that.  We ere totally gase like, hand off into the line twice and then face 3rd and long.  Our oline was much worse than it has been lately.  So no, not utter nonsense.

As I said in my post, if Wilson falls on his ass now you can put it all on him.  To ignore the actual change in the offense is what is nonsense.

I also think LDT over GVR should help Zach. Not because LDT is really good, but more because he is less prone to allowing a play to be blown up. I feel like whenever the Jets had a 3rd or 4th and 1, they would run behind AVT and the tackle over GVR would cross his face into the backfield and blow up the play before it reached the line of scrimmage. And we all know how often he would be beat in pass plays, that is if even blocked anyone.

[GreenFish]

2 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 

Nonsense. Total utter nonsense. It boggles the mind that all our backup QB’s have solid success in the system and the conclusion of Zach fans is that the OC, OL, RB’s, and WR’s all had marked improvements in their game not because Zach is gone (mainly the only thing that changed), but because all of those units suddenly and coincidentally had an epiphany on how to play competent football the day after Zach was no longer the starter. Knock it off. Our offense sucked with Zach for one reason and one reason alone-because Zach sucked. Hopefully he can stop sucking, but I’m not holding my breath.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Pretty much. The OL got better at pass protection because the QB’s were getting ball out quickly. The WRs got better because the QBs were taking easy completions. The play calling got better because the offense was moving which allowed ML to go deeper into the playbook. It wasn't all his fault of course. But when an old man, a journeyman and an untested young QB all come in a make it work, its safe to say it was mostly Zach. 

Fingers crossed Zach has learned to take what the defense gives him. Teams know Zach can gun it deep. So, they wont be as quick to takeaway the dumps off.  Zach is also more mobile then our backups. So there are plays he can run they they cant (rollouts etc which can also lead to easy completions). 

 

 

[Peace Frog]

19 hours ago, johnnysd said:

 I honestly think Zach is one of the most hated Jets ever with the fans here. A significant amount would not even give him another chance.

It's just like the same 7 dudes.  Playing it over and over and over.  So it sounds like a lot.  

Good thing is, noting anyone says here impacts what happens on the field.  I'm hoping Zach picks it up a little each week so by the end of his rookie--yes rookie--season he's playing at a better level.  

[Claymation]

 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

 

I wonder what changed ? 

[Barry McCockinner]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

I wonder what changed ? 

The answer is plain as day but if you want to do mental gymnastics, well - just read this forum.

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The answer is plain as day but if you want to do mental gymnastics, well - just read this forum.

I think Jupiter aligned with Mars.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

 

Giving up 50 points a week on defense will allow a team to put up a lot of yards.  

 

[FidelioJet]

I suspect if the Jets give up 50 points ZW will throw, easily for over 400 yards. 

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Giving up 50 points a week on defense will allow a team to put up a lot of yards.  

 

Yes, but you have to keep getting those yards to make teams want to put up 50.  When you just curl up and get your 3 and out teams don't get the necessary turnovers and don't bother keeping the hammer down.

Just now, FidelioJet said:

I suspect if the Jets give up 50 points ZW will throw, easily for over 400 yards. 

Easily?  If Zach Wilson throws for over 400 yards "easily" I will still be smiling if the Texans score 60. 

I agree with your general premise and I would still be happy.

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I suspect if the Jets give up 50 points ZW will throw, easily for over 400 yards. 

Giving up 50, again, would certainly suck.

But seeing Zach Wilson throw for 400 yards and have an effective day passing would be very nice.

[chirorob]

22 hours ago, Warfish said:

When Zach Wilson got hurt, the Jets were ranked 32/32 in the NFL in Offense (Scoring/Points) in 2021.

This mirrored the Gase Era, where the Jets were ranked 32/32 in 2020 and 31/32 in Offense 2019.

Today, the Jets are ranked 27th (in Scoring) and 21st (in Yards).

That's actually a more notable jump than I expected, and I think it warrants more notice than it's received.

27th in Scoring is clearly still poop, but if it were to stand, it'd be our best showing since 2018 (23rd) under Bowles.

21st in Yards is a huge jump from 32nd, almost....dare I say it....closer to being average.   If it were to stand, it'd be our best showing since 2015 (10th w/ Fitzy).

21st in Yards would actually be the 3rd best finish in that ranking for the Jets since 2011.

Given we played Mike White, Josh Johnson and Old Man Flacco, that is a really notable jump in the rankings.

Now, we'll get to see if Zach Wilson learning anything during his injury recovery time.   

If he builds on what the backups did, this could be our first non-basement finish on Offense in quite a while.

If he doesn't, we'll likely go right back to being last in the NFL again.

But at least, for a moment, we have had a glimmer of not being the worst Offense in the NFL.  To me that's notable.

 

I'm hoping Zach keeps building.

It also kind of kills that narrative that it was 100% on our OC.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Giving up 50 points a week on defense will allow a team to put up a lot of yards.  

 

 

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I suspect if the Jets give up 50 points ZW will throw, easily for over 400 yards. 

 

 

[bicketybam]

I'm new here but I'm seeing a lot of Wilson hate. I understand he's has been mostly poor in his 5+ games but I'm hoping he gets a chance to learn the NFL game. I do understand that the Jets fanbase is pretty beat down. We went from Sanchez, who got 4 years or so, to Darnold who got 3 and now to Wilson who apparently gets 5 games. I also realize that there are poster that think they are GM and/or scout material but for whatever reason they never realized a career in the NFL. I'm pulling for you guys!

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[Warfish]

3 hours ago, chirorob said:

I'm hoping Zach keeps building.

I think we all are, honestly.

He's our best chance at current to have a legit franchise QB.

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

I'm new here but I'm seeing a lot of Wilson hate.

Then I don't think you know what hate actually means then.

Quote

I understand he's has been mostly poor in his 5+ games but I'm hoping he gets a chance to learn the NFL game.

He will.  Remember, fan frustration =/= Organizational decision making.

Do you think Wilson has played great so far in 2021?  If you say no, do you hate him?

Exactly.

Quote

I do understand that the Jets fanbase is pretty beat down. We went from Sanchez, who got 4 years or so, to Darnold who got 3 and now to Wilson who apparently gets 5 games.

Again, fan frustration =/= Organizational decision making.  

Wilson will almost assuredly get three seasons to prove himself here.

And the fans will evaluate him at every step along the way.  As fans do.

Quote

I also realize that there are poster that think they are GM and/or scout material but for whatever reason they never realized a career in the NFL. I'm pulling for you guys!

Welcome to the internet, where everyone thinks they know things.

[bicketybam]

Welcome to the internet, where everyone thinks they know things.

Fair enough. Maybe hate was the wrong word.

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[jetswinbaby!]

On 11/23/2021 at 3:43 PM, munchmemory said:

Hairless ones.

Or hairy ones, if that's worse...

[doitny]

2 hours ago, bicketybam said:

I'm new here but I'm seeing a lot of Wilson hate. I understand he's has been mostly poor in his 5+ games but I'm hoping he gets a chance to learn the NFL game. I do understand that the Jets fanbase is pretty beat down. We went from Sanchez, who got 4 years or so, to Darnold who got 3 and now to Wilson who apparently gets 5 games. I also realize that there are poster that think they are GM and/or scout material but for whatever reason they never realized a career in the NFL. I'm pulling for you guys!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

new? but you have been a member for 11 years lol

btw you owe 11 years' worth of membership dues, see Max before your next post

[doitny]

Zach takes some blame for sure but if you guys dont think the play calling change then i dont know what you were watching all year.

doesnt anyone remember Whites 1st game where he got 5 straight passes to start the game. the 1st drive had 7 passes to 3 runs and a lateral pass. i dont think we seen a lateral pass before that.

when zack was playing?

vs NE the week before  was...run....run...pass...punt..

vs ATL .......run.... scrabble for 3 yds...pass...

vs Tenn......  run.... run... pass

vs Den ....PASS (cant believe a pass was the first call and went for a 1st down ) but then.... run..run...pass...

vs NE.... run....pass (INT) 

vs Car....run.... pass..run...run...pass ...pass..

5 out of 6 games the 1st call was a run. 

now after Wilson

vs Cin... 5 straight passes..2 runs...2 passes... lateral ..run...

vs Indy... 4 straight passes...run... pass..

vs Buffalo.... 3 straight passes.

vs Mia....run...3 straight passes..... run...pass.....

so please dont tell me the play calling was the same. 

 

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I think we all are, honestly.

He's our best chance at current to have a legit franchise QB.

I truly wish this were the case but it’s clear there is a strong contingent of JN fans that aren’t just hoping ZW does poorly, but are outwardly celebrating it when he does. 

[GREENBEAN]

On 11/23/2021 at 3:44 PM, Beerfish said:

I think that too much of this is being put on Wilson.  When Wilson got hurt LaFleur had said he had to re-eval how he was doing things and then he went up into the booth to call plays.  Things changed very much for the better since then.

We should find out soon if this is QB related when Wilson gets back.  I think the offensive planning and play calling is much better moreso than a stinky rookie QB.  White, flacco and johnson are not household good qb names.

This.  A whole lot has changed since then.  Also Cavanaugh is now running the sideline. Not Lafleur. Lafluer can be up there in his nerd hole while an actual football player deals with all the player interactions and issues. Let ML just sit up there and work on the game plan. Its what he wants to do. Let Cavanaugh run the show on the field and let Beck and Calabrese sit with Zach and their microsoft surfaces and go over intricacies of the QB position.  It's finally close to what we intended with Greg Knapp.   

[Uncle Nicco]

1 minute ago, GREENBEAN said:

This.  A whole lot has changed since then.  Also Cavanaugh is now running the sideline. Not Lafleur. Lafluer can be up there in his nerd hole while an actual football player deals with all the player interactions and issues. Let ML just sit up there and work on the game plan. Its what he wants to do. Let Cavanaugh run the show on the field and let Beck and Calabrese sit with Zach and their microsoft surfaces and go over intricacies of the QB position.  It's finally close to what we intended with Greg Knapp.   

Don’t forget the dropped passes and blown OL assignments. Those were RAMPANT early in the year.

[GREENBEAN]

2 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

Don’t forget the dropped passes and blown OL assignments. Those were RAMPANT early in the year.

Sure.  It was all over the place from staff to players. OL couldn't figure out who to block. Receivers and backs dropping the ball. Zach's picks.  We were in disarray and it's begun to calm down on offense. It will be interesting to see how Zach plays after becoming the 9th passing offense in the NFL. ??‍♂️

[bicketybam]

new? but you have been a member for 11 years lol
btw you owe 11 years' worth of membership dues, see Max before your next post

I ended up on another forum.

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[Jetsfan80]

Double post.

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, doitny said:

new? but you have been a member for 11 years lol

btw you owe 11 years' worth of membership dues, see Max before your next post

 

2 hours ago, bicketybam said:

I ended up on another forum.

 

[jgb]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I truly wish this were the case but it’s clear there is a strong contingent of JN fans that aren’t just hoping ZW does poorly, but are outwardly celebrating it when he does. 

Name them and tag them. Give them the opportunity to punt this baloney narrative into the stratosphere.

[jgb]

5 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Sure.  It was all over the place from staff to players. OL couldn't figure out who to block. Receivers and backs dropping the ball. Zach's picks.  We were in disarray and it's begun to calm down on offense. It will be interesting to see how Zach plays after becoming the 9th passing offense in the NFL. ??‍♂️

If he fails, the excuses will make Jesus look unmerciful.

[Jetluv58]

On 11/23/2021 at 3:02 PM, Warfish said:

When Zach Wilson got hurt, the Jets were ranked 32/32 in the NFL in Offense (Scoring/Points) in 2021.

This mirrored the Gase Era, where the Jets were ranked 32/32 in 2020 and 31/32 in Offense 2019.

Today, the Jets are ranked 27th (in Scoring) and 21st (in Yards).

That's actually a more notable jump than I expected, and I think it warrants more notice than it's received.

27th in Scoring is clearly still poop, but if it were to stand, it'd be our best showing since 2018 (23rd) under Bowles.

21st in Yards is a huge jump from 32nd, almost....dare I say it....closer to being average.   If it were to stand, it'd be our best showing since 2015 (10th w/ Fitzy).

21st in Yards would actually be the 3rd best finish in that ranking for the Jets since 2011.

Given we played Mike White, Josh Johnson and Old Man Flacco, that is a really notable jump in the rankings.

Now, we'll get to see if Zach Wilson learning anything during his injury recovery time.   

If he builds on what the backups did, this could be our first non-basement finish on Offense in quite a while.

If he doesn't, we'll likely go right back to being last in the NFL again.

But at least, for a moment, we have had a glimmer of not being the worst Offense in the NFL.  To me that's notable.

 

How long since Wilson played last? He won’t come out blazing. Will have to re-acclimate. 

[Warfish]

12 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I truly wish this were the case but it’s clear there is a strong contingent of JN fans that aren’t just hoping ZW does poorly, but are outwardly celebrating it when he does. 

I just don't agree.  

What I think is there is, as there always is for every team, a contingent of fans who simply cannot brook any criticism, doubt or analysis of a highly picked player without immediately thinking it's "hate" and a "desire to that player fail".  In short, these fans think other fans are just trolls.  Not real fans.  Etc.

Not true in my view.