The JD and Saleh honeymoon ends when week one of 2022 begins

[TuscanyTile2]

21 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I'll throw half a bone to the JD detractors. 

By the time week one of the 2022 season begins, JD and Saleh will have completed another FA period, draft, UDFA signing period, and post June cuts period. The current roster will be a year older. Dead money will be mostly gone. I give you my word that there will be no more mental gymnastics. or twisting myself into a pretzel about JD and Saleh. It is my expectation that the 2022 Jets will be competing for a division title with a secondary goal of clinching a wild card spot. If it is more of the same in 2022, I'll donate to the fire JD and Saleh fund. 

You can bookmark this, and refer to it at any time after week one begins in 2022. 

Put your name on this if you aren't already a detractor. Make a tired, snarky remark if that is what you were going to predictably do anyway. 

 

I expect serious improvement next year.  Even if we don't have a great W/L record, I expect us to be tough competition and look like we're a team that is clearly on the rise.   

[slimjasi]

What honeymoon? 

We already have media dopes and a good chunk of this board saying he should be gone after 10 games 

[Matt39]

14 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I expect serious improvement next year.  Even if we don't have a great W/L record, I expect us to be tough competition and look like we're a team that is clearly on the rise.   

Why can’t we expect that this season? Getting blown out on a weekly basis is why the clean house whispers are circling. This franchise hasn’t had a home playoff game since 2002. Hasn’t made the playoffs in a decade (longest current drought). When can we expect some wins? Right now it looks like the Jets are arguably the worst team in football and save a trade for Rodgers or Wilson they’ll be considered one of the worst teams to start 2022 too. Enough is enough.

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Why can’t we expect that this season? Getting blown out on a weekly basis is why the clean house whispers are circling. This franchise hasn’t had a home playoff game since 2002. Hasn’t made the playoffs in a decade (longest current drought). When can we expect some wins? Right now it looks like the Jets are arguably the worst team in football and save a trade for Rodgers or Wilson they’ll be considered one of the worst teams to start 2022 too. Enough is enough.

I did expect it this season.  But what can we do at this point?  We still stink.  And I agree we might be the worst team in the NFL (though I still doubt we end up #1 overall).  This coming offseason we have a lot of draft picks so absolutely no more excuses.  We need to at least show some serious improvement.  If we're not at least competitive next year, that would be a massive disappointment.

[Matt39]

20 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I did expect it this season.  But what can we do at this point?  We still stink.  And I agree we might be the worst team in the NFL (though I still doubt we end up #1 overall).  This coming offseason we have a lot of draft picks so absolutely no more excuses.  We need to at least show some serious improvement.  If we're not at least competitive next year, that would be a massive disappointment.

Saleh was hired because Gase stunk. He was also hired to win. The team not only isn’t winning, it looks uncompetitive. The serious improvement needs to start immediately. Go beat Houston and string a few wins together. 2,3,4 wins shouldn’t be acceptable to anyone.

[Jetluv58]

21 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

We need to see real signs of a plan coming into place and improvement next year. 2023-24 and 2024-25 are the years for expectations. If Saleh is the guy, he needs time b/c he started with close to nothing. The problem is, while we didn't expect a winning record this year, the team (and defense especially), at times, has looked like it would be neglect not to fire the coaches on the spot. I want this to work, but there has to be some type of feeling of moving forward. For example, the Miami game was okay, we can live with that. But the Bills, Colts, and Patriots games were so awful that it felt like this coaching staff and organization had no business running a professional football team. 

But I digress. You have to give Saleh 3-4 years. I just don't know if the organization and the fans will be patient enough.

Bills,Colts and Pats are much better than Miami. Agree with you mostly though.

[IndianaJet]

The honeymoon ends to the extent another 3-4 win season will put them on the hot seat for 2023.  
 

A 7, 8, or 9 win season keeps them off the hit seat, unless 2023 turns into a disaster.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

32 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Saleh was hired because Gase stunk. He was also hired to win. The team not only isn’t winning, it looks uncompetitive. The serious improvement needs to start immediately. Go beat Houston and string a few wins together. 2,3,4 wins shouldn’t be acceptable to anyone.

Saleh beating Houston honestly does nothing. That’s gonna make you feel better about him?

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Saleh beating Houston honestly does nothing. That’s gonna make you feel better about him?

Winning? Yes. Wins dont matter either?  What actually matters? 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Winning? Yes. Wins dont matter either?  What actually matters? 

Yes they do. I just fully imagine you saying it’s a bad team and this win means nothing. 
Either way I’m looking at the big picture beyond this season. 1 season doesn’t define Saleh. Let them actually build this thing. 

[Matt39]

Just now, Zachtomims47 said:

Yes they do. I just fully imagine you saying it’s a bad team and this win means nothing. 
Either way I’m looking at the big picture beyond this season. 1 season doesn’t define Saleh. Let them actually build this thing. 

The building thing is supposed to be happening this year..this isnt a mulligan season. Jets should beat the Texans on Sunday. Show some life, get after the QB, score some points. If they look lifeless again then this whole build thing looks like a crock. 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The building thing is supposed to be happening this year..this isnt a mulligan season. Jets should beat the Texans on Sunday. Show some life, get after the QB, score some points. If they look lifeless again then this whole build thing looks like a crock. 

Texans, Eagles, Saints, Dolphins. They should be 3-1 in this stretch or the “clean house” drumbeat is going to get louder. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Texans, Eagles, Saints, Dolphins. They should be 3-1 in this stretch or the “clean house” drumbeat is going to get louder. 

Like go out and win some games. Next year is irrelevant at the moment. What a weird state our fanbase is in. Taking over a team and winning 3 games is going to get the firing whispers started regardless of team, city etc. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Texans, Eagles, Saints, Dolphins. They should be 3-1 in this stretch or the “clean house” drumbeat is going to get louder. 

The Texans we have a real chance to beat (though it's no guarantee).  We've never beaten the Eagles in our history so I'm not counting on that changing this year.  The Saints are better than us and the Dolphin game is in Miami.  I think 1-3 is realistic.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The building thing is supposed to be happening this year..this isnt a mulligan season. Jets should beat the Texans on Sunday. Show some life, get after the QB, score some points. If they look lifeless again then this whole build thing looks like a crock. 

Yea…they are building. Takes time. You’re expecting it to be built already? Lol. Jesus. Patience Matthew. 

[Rangers9]

I can't think of any terrible personnel deals JD has made since taking the job with the Jets. You can't expect any GM or org to hit a home run on every draft pick and none of  them do including NEP. The thing is in the two years he's been GM the team on the field has been worse. The combination he is putting on the field isn't working and that's really the bottom line in an org. People were uncertain at the lack of experience in the secondary and earlier in the year they seemed to being playing OK surprising everyone. But that's changed and the team on defense is giving up points, big plays and we're seeing breakdowns in coverage. Now if he made the final decision on hiring a new HC it isn't working out so far. Saleh was one of the bigger name popular coordinators last season and prob would have been hired by another team. So hiring him wasn't a stretch he had the credentials, league wide respect etc. It just hasn't worked out. Remember JD also came in via Gase and that also didn't work out. So would I fire him esp when he still has years on his contract. NO. I give him more time same goes for Saleh unless the entire team falls apart and he loses the locker room. But if Jets personnel is better than their on field performance (which I think is the case) and it continues after 2022 then I make a change at least in coaching.

[xJayce]

On 11/25/2021 at 1:52 PM, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I am expecting the current players, returning injured players, free agent acquisitions, plus the rookies to look like a professional football team starting on week one. This is not about week one being a must win game, but it is a must look like a contending team game. 

I think I can get behind that.  Of course, the new rookies will make things exciting (and by exciting, I mean "bang your head on your desk"). But yes, I would love to see a team that can come out and compete... 

Expectations from my side...

Defence - 5 to 6 new starters on D

• 2 LBs
• 1-2 Safeties (let's see what happens with Ashtyn down the stretch)
• 1 CB (draft?)
• 1 DL (draft? Carl Lawson?)
• That's a lot of change, may get messy

Offence - Most of the same, with a few tweaks

• 0-1 on the OLine? (if LDT plays and wants to stick around, not sure we're picking up any new starters. Maybe a new center?).
• 1 TE (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE)
• 0-1 WR (Thinking CD and Moore have spots 1-2, not sure if Mims get a chance to start next season, or they try and flex in new talent)
• 0 QB

All that to say I'm expecting the offence lead next season as the D gets itself figured out, then the D gels by mid season. Hopefully we're in it for a strong push in the last third of the season.

[Hal N of Provo]

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/mockdraft/
 

So many picks this off-season… if they are all 10 places lower it would be an amazing opportunity.  
 

Another good draft will change things.  A bad draft will be disaster.  
 

I’m an optimist.  JD has set up an opportunity for success.  He deserves a chance to deliver on that next year.   Hand wringing won’t help in the meantime.  

[Beerfish]

They kept a guy in McCagnan that after his 1st wonderful year got worse and worse and his 'plan' was awful.  He got five years.  Douglas will get at least that.

There is no chance they get rid of saleh until after at least 3 years and the jets would have to show nothing for him to get canned.

Any talk now of these guys going is at least two years away minimum.

[CSNY]

On 11/25/2021 at 5:16 PM, rangerous said:

They need to show some drastic improvement in 2022.  I’m not going to look at the win-loss record as much as good play on both sides of the ball.  Teams that play for the full 60 minutes will have a decent win- loss record. Another point is they need to do a whole lot better in turnovers.  Right now they are -25 (I think).  That’s a lot and does help explain the bad record.

Rangerous I disagree as we need to see improvement now as the kids have a half year of experience and really should be making strides. We have seen improvement in the o line and offense in general along with the young secondary. My concern is the d line which was supposed to be a strength of team which is made up of veterans  has  regressed so badly after a promising start it is dragging the overall performance of team down. Have to get that fixed pronto !!!!!!!

[Jet Nut]

On 11/26/2021 at 7:28 AM, kevinc855 said:

Rankins and Jerrod Davis were bad signings. Keelan Cole? What has he really done? I’m still amazed he gave GVR a 3 year deal who is easily the weakest link on the OL and rightfully got benched last week. We can’t afford that type of FA next season and expect to fix our team.

They weren't bad signings, they were filling in while the rookies and UFAs gain experience and he will then know the areas where he really has to address via FA.

The plan isnt that hard to figure out.  Easy to bitch about though

[Biggs]

My take is Douglas is much smarter than Saleh.  He hasn't built a great roster but I suspect coming from Baltimore he believes in a big front on both sides and good sized linebackers.   Don't see the mesh between the two at all.  Saleh seems to be all about speed and in the Northeast it's not a great approach.  

[Jimmy 2 Times]

On 11/25/2021 at 9:57 PM, Warfish said:

So it took JD a year and a half (two seasons of games) to get to the starting point of year 1 of his tenure.

Interesting take.

It's the reason JD received a 6 year deal instead of the typical 5.  That first year didn't count and was strictly observational.  He started tearing down in year 2 (the first year that counted towards the rebuild.).  

This is year two of the rebuild, but year 1 of JD/Saleh.  

[kevinc855]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

They weren't bad signings,

Someone besides Baghdad bob make the coherent argument jerrod Davis or GVR was a good signing. 
 

I will wait 

[jeremy2020]

What are you talking about.. according to this board.. honeymoons last for six years before you even consider them ending..

[Matt39]

14 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

What are you talking about.. according to this board.. honeymoons last for six years before you even consider them ending..

The honeymoon lasts until the coach or GM is fired. Then everyone pretends they didnt give them a permanent honeymoon.

[xJayce]

On 11/26/2021 at 7:28 AM, kevinc855 said:

JD needs to rethink his Fa approach where he has been pretty poor at. These one year, cheap but high potential signings aren’t working. Rankins and Jerrod Davis were bad signings. Keelan Cole? What has he really done? I’m still amazed he gave GVR a 3 year deal who is easily the weakest link on the OL and rightfully got benched last week. We can’t afford that type of FA next season and expect to fix our team.

As for the draft it’s going to be a mystery. 20 was bad, early 21 seems betters. I still think he whiffed on his late round LB picks but we can call it even getting Carter and more. We have no idea what Wilson is going to be yet. But yea he has to nail these picks if he’s Gona hang his GM hat on trades. 
 

Bottom line is under  JD, whether you agree he takes the hit for 19 or not would have a 3rd or 4th straight losing season if we are negative in wins loses in 22. Would any nfl team keep a coach who had the type of record? It’s unacceptable. JD needs to build the roster this year, and build it for real, not these little plug gaps here and there. 
 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'rethink' the approach to FA. So far, JD has been all about finding stop gaps, depth and value signings (other than Carl Lawson and Corey Davis)? Rankins was highly regarded but derailed after injuries. He can be cut next season if there's anyone better on the roster for just about nothing. Jerrod is on a 1 year deal. He's a stop gap. Not sure what the duration of GVR's contract has to do with anything? He was signed as depth, and can be cut at any time for nothing. This offers stability on the field and clarity in regards to salary cap. Hell, I'd sign everyone to 10 year deals with no guaranteed money if I could. And GVR has been GVR. His PFF grading hasn't really changed over time, he's in the low 60s. That's pretty much what you want for a back-up. And now we have a new starter on the cheap, which is great! 

I think that's exactly the right approach to FA (see where value and depth signings make sense, limit where you splurge on FA as those contracts are generally a disaster; ie Trumaine Johnson, LeVeon Bell, CJ Mosley, etc...), and don't overpay for non-premium positions (ie - 15M for a safety makes no sense).

As for qualifying the draft, '21 seems better'?? At the moment, from that draft, we have 4 guys starting (AVT, Moore, MC, MC2), Echols contributing, and a couple of projects in the work or on IR. And that's not even include ZW who at the moment is a bit of a wildcard. If he is in the top 10 QBs (granted, still a stretch, he'll need to show a lot more), this would be a foundational draft for the team (we'll know in a couple of years). And you don't 'whiff' on a 5th or 6th round player. Most aren't expected to contribute in their first season, and generally don't amount to much. They are generally project players (or in the rare case good players which drop due to off-field / injury concerns). You take a shot on someone you believe you can develop over the next couple of years.

I don't think it matters if he takes a hit for past seasons. I don't think it matters what the record was last year, or where we land this year. What matters is the vision to which he and the Johnsons agree when JD was signed, and how the team is performing towards that end. If the Johnsons' expect a winning season in 2023, then that's what JD needs to deliver (and that's speculation, I have no idea what the they planned). The rest is completely irrelevant. 

[kevinc855]

22 minutes ago, xJayce said:

I'm not sure what you mean by 'rethink' the approach to FA. So far, JD has been all about finding stop gaps, depth and value signings (other than Carl Lawson and Corey Davis)? Rankins was highly regarded but derailed after injuries. He can be cut next season if there's anyone better on the roster for just about nothing. Jerrod is on a 1 year deal. He's a stop gap. Not sure what the duration of GVR's contract has to do with anything? He was signed as depth, and can be cut at any time for nothing. This offers stability on the field and clarity in regards to salary cap. Hell, I'd sign everyone to 10 year deals with no guaranteed money if I could. And GVR has been GVR. His PFF grading hasn't really changed over time, he's in the low 60s. That's pretty much what you want for a back-up. And now we have a new starter on the cheap, which is great! 

I think that's exactly the right approach to FA (see where value and depth signings make sense, limit where you splurge on FA as those contracts are generally a disaster; ie Trumaine Johnson, LeVeon Bell, CJ Mosley, etc...), and don't overpay for non-premium positions (ie - 15M for a safety makes no sense).

As for qualifying the draft, '21 seems better'?? At the moment, from that draft, we have 4 guys starting (AVT, Moore, MC, MC2), Echols contributing, and a couple of projects in the work or on IR. And that's not even include ZW who at the moment is a bit of a wildcard. If he is in the top 10 QBs (granted, still a stretch, he'll need to show a lot more), this would be a foundational draft for the team (we'll know in a couple of years). And you don't 'whiff' on a 5th or 6th round player. Most aren't expected to contribute in their first season, and generally don't amount to much. They are generally project players (or in the rare case good players which drop due to off-field / injury concerns). You take a shot on someone you believe you can develop over the next couple of years.

I don't think it matters if he takes a hit for past seasons. I don't think it matters what the record was last year, or where we land this year. What matters is the vision to which he and the Johnsons agree when JD was signed, and how the team is performing towards that end. If the Johnsons' expect a winning season in 2023, then that's what JD needs to deliver (and that's speculation, I have no idea what the they planned). The rest is completely irrelevant. 

You are explaining the rationale for the signings not the end result of the signings ie whether a player has been good or productive. JD has done poorly in FA over the last few years. I could go on with examples like Perriman etc. I get WHY he signs then but it’s not a path to winning. 
 

Another point, JD seems to like fast guys and gets tied up in the “talent” upsides. He seems to overlook football instincts and guys that can play the game. It’s a clear distinction which has been coming into focus more in the last few years in the talent evaluation world 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Someone besides Baghdad bob make the coherent argument jerrod Davis or GVR was a good signing. 
 

I will wait 

The dumbest of all dumb comments is to call a signing a mistake because a player is injured.  Bad luck, yes.  Wrong move, no

Why am I not shocked that you think a Joyner, whoever was a bad signing because hes injured and then call me Bagdad Bob.  I could just mindlessly call every signing a mistake like you.  

[xJayce]

5 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

You are explaining the rationale for the signings not the end result of the signings ie whether a player has been good or productive. JD has done poorly in FA over the last few years. I could go on with examples like Perriman etc. I get WHY he signs then but it’s not a path to winning. 
 

Another point, JD seems to like fast guys and gets tied up in the “talent” upsides. He seems to overlook football instincts and guys that can play the game. It’s a clear distinction which has been coming into focus more in the last few years in the talent evaluation world 

Got it... And I tend to agree, it feels like we're often hearing "athletic" and "high upside", but we're not seeing results. Is it because there are too many new faces at the same? Is it that we're having trouble actually evaluating upside? Is it that management and fans are not aligned on how long it should take for said to show (I'm seeing other posts where people are expecting draft picks from next draft to contribute immediately day 1 next season; I feel that's a recipe for disappointment).

The good news is that the misses tend to be short term, or have little costs (ie - little in guaranteed money, we can easily move on). I tend to think of those a function of JD just plugging in holes (ie - Perriman is a great example: one year contract, didn't work out, we moved on, very little risk involved).

I think we agree on the outcome, the results haven't been there for most of the players signed to 1 year deals.

[Jetscode1]

6 hours ago, xJayce said:

I'm not sure what you mean by 'rethink' the approach to FA. So far, JD has been all about finding stop gaps, depth and value signings (other than Carl Lawson and Corey Davis)? Rankins was highly regarded but derailed after injuries. He can be cut next season if there's anyone better on the roster for just about nothing. Jerrod is on a 1 year deal. He's a stop gap. Not sure what the duration of GVR's contract has to do with anything? He was signed as depth, and can be cut at any time for nothing. This offers stability on the field and clarity in regards to salary cap. Hell, I'd sign everyone to 10 year deals with no guaranteed money if I could. And GVR has been GVR. His PFF grading hasn't really changed over time, he's in the low 60s. That's pretty much what you want for a back-up. And now we have a new starter on the cheap, which is great! 

I think that's exactly the right approach to FA (see where value and depth signings make sense, limit where you splurge on FA as those contracts are generally a disaster; ie Trumaine Johnson, LeVeon Bell, CJ Mosley, etc...), and don't overpay for non-premium positions (ie - 15M for a safety makes no sense).

As for qualifying the draft, '21 seems better'?? At the moment, from that draft, we have 4 guys starting (AVT, Moore, MC, MC2), Echols contributing, and a couple of projects in the work or on IR. And that's not even include ZW who at the moment is a bit of a wildcard. If he is in the top 10 QBs (granted, still a stretch, he'll need to show a lot more), this would be a foundational draft for the team (we'll know in a couple of years). And you don't 'whiff' on a 5th or 6th round player. Most aren't expected to contribute in their first season, and generally don't amount to much. They are generally project players (or in the rare case good players which drop due to off-field / injury concerns). You take a shot on someone you believe you can develop over the next couple of years.

I don't think it matters if he takes a hit for past seasons. I don't think it matters what the record was last year, or where we land this year. What matters is the vision to which he and the Johnsons agree when JD was signed, and how the team is performing towards that end. If the Johnsons' expect a winning season in 2023, then that's what JD needs to deliver (and that's speculation, I have no idea what the they planned). The rest is completely irrelevant. 

Excellent post!  JD looks like a GM who places a premium on smart contracts and building through the draft.  This year's draft looks solid and we still don't know what we got in Zach Wilson.  The fact that he was also able to acquire so many future draft picks is also noteworthy.  The on-field product is still a work in progress.  The past decade our offense stunk to high heaven.  JD used the top half of his last draft on offense.   We've see LaFluer improve his play calling and the offense as a whole is light years better than anything we've seen since 2015.  The defense now is the unit that needs a makeover and JD has the ammo to make this happen.  Obviously it's another big off-season where he needs to wisely use his resources.  My hope is the Johnson's let JD and the coaching staff finish the job.  The foundation is starting to get poured and many here want to accelerate the timeline but the fact is we do not know what the timeline the Johnson's demanded or what JD and crew gave them as reasonable expectation.  I'm just glad that we are finally seeing the house get built in the right way.  Go Jets!

[rangerous]

On 11/27/2021 at 3:31 AM, CSNY said:

Rangerous I disagree as we need to see improvement now as the kids have a half year of experience and really should be making strides. We have seen improvement in the o line and offense in general along with the young secondary. My concern is the d line which was supposed to be a strength of team which is made up of veterans  has  regressed so badly after a promising start it is dragging the overall performance of team down. Have to get that fixed pronto !!!!!!!

I know we all point to other teams that execute a rags to riches program over two or three seasons.  Heck the jets did it from 96 to 97 and 98.  I just think they changed way too much from gase to saleh and it’ll take a bit more time. Back in 77 it took Michael’s 3 seasons before they were respectable and I don’t think he was coaching a new system just hard nose beat the guy in front of you football.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

23 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

What are you talking about.. according to this board.. honeymoons last for six years before you even consider them ending..

I don't care what other people do. I stand by my word.