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Jets would incur $20 mil in dead money if they were to look to move on from Mosley after this season


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Maccagnan was a disaster

In hindsight, sure. In that moment, I don't think so.  Mosely was a 4x pro-bowler who had missed all of 3 starts in 5 seasons. No GM could have known he'd get hurt and lose a year in the fir

A GM shouldn’t be paying a LB $17 million a year for 5 years when the whole team sucks. Mosley deteriorating was not predictable but this being a bad contract was obvious from day 1.

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14 hours ago, Warfish said:

In hindsight, sure.

In that moment, I don't think so.  Mosely was a 4x pro-bowler who had missed all of 3 starts in 5 seasons.

No GM could have known he'd get hurt and lose a year in the first game as a Jet.

No GM could have predicted COVID, and that Mosely would choose to sit for a year after his lost year.

I'm happy to assign blame where appropriate, but this one isn't it.  On it's face, signing Mosely looked like a very good move, justified by how well he played that one shining first half as a Jet before it all came crumbling down.

Now?  He's a guy who basically didn't play football for two years (2019, 2020) and he just isn't the same guy now.

Sucks, but hard to say any GM "should have known" this would be the outcome IMO.


You don’t pay that kind of coin to an ILB, and you don’t do it in such a way that you’re tied to him as long as the Jets are (his opt-out year not withstanding).

Many here said it was a bad contract the moment it was signed.  Almost as bad as the Bell signing, and people said that even if Mosley played at a Pro Bowl level here.  

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14 hours ago, Warfish said:

So what position should we pay when "the whole team sucks", and do you presume when signing FA's that the "whole team will suck" the entire length of that contract?

Seems an odd way to run a team to me.

Curious, did you say that at the time, that is was an obvious bad signing, and did you say why? 

Because most folks didn't think that at the time by my memory, and they certainly didn't say "because the whole team sucks" as the reason for it being a bad signing.

I don't agree, for the record, I think it was a solid signing given what was known at the time.

 


Spending for the sake of spending (mostly because you’ve drafted poorly) is a bad move, almost always.  It’s how you end up with a team full of Trumaine Johnson’s.

No one would have minded a short-term deal for Mosley, but this wasn’t it.  Macc was the king at tying the Jets to expensive players who couldn’t be cut for 3 years.  I believe we were still paying out dead money to Macc players this year.  

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11 hours ago, xJayce said:

I keep hearing how, given the team is not competitive, we need to overpay for good free agents to join the team. However, when a GM does, he's crucified after the fact. By no way am I making excuses for Mac, but given that he was failing in the draft (still disappointed that we took QW 3rd overall and Adams 6th overall), he painted himself in a corner and needed to bring in talent. He then overpaid and created the current narrative.

I don't know how often high priced FAs work out, but it doesn't seem to be a viable options moving forward. FAs need to be complimentary and not core to a team's development.

 


If you’re gonna have to overpay, you at least need to do so at premium positions and/or positions of need.  Mosley represented neither.  

And as @kdels62 pointed out earlier, there were more than enough FA’s out there that qualified that Macc ignored.  

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10 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

Anyone know how much of the 20 million is there with a trade? Either way, we have enough cap space to take the hit, but I would guess they would  want to draft/sign his replacement prior to releasing him.

No one is trading for Mosley.  People thought he’d be gone this past offseason or trade deadline and it never happened, for good reason.

To trade him this offseason we’d likely have to surrender pick(s) ourselves like the Brock Osweiler deal. 

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4 minutes ago, Larz said:

Highest paid players ( cap hits)on this roster 

 

TRUMAINE JOHNSON

Food Drink Mcdonalds GIF by Shaking Food GIFs
 

Trumaine Johnson still being on this list should give @Pac a deep amount of shame for supporting Mike Maccagnan over half a decade.

Worst GM in NFL history and it’s not close.  He made Matt Millen looked like Ozzie Newsome.

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Love it when fans say "You don't pay a LB $17 who's the wrong fit for the defense".

We already had CJ here b/4 the new sheriff rolled into town with his 'new' defense. Maybe we should a hired a different Sheriff whos new defense was a much better fit for our grossly overpaid Middle LBer? 

Same with Becton "Becton sucks running LeFleur's spread offense". Welp, Big B was here BEFORE LeFleur, so perhaps we sholda brought in a different LeFleur who's offense is in lock step with our new LT?

Seems like we're stuffing square pegs into round holes. Sound familiar?

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29 minutes ago, FootballLove said:

Love it when fans say "You don't pay a LB $17 who's the wrong fit for the defense".

We already had CJ here b/4 the new sheriff rolled into town with his 'new' defense. Maybe we should a hired a different Sheriff whos new defense was a much better fit for our grossly overpaid Middle LBer? 

Same with Becton "Becton sucks running LeFleur's spread offense". Welp, Big B was here BEFORE LeFleur, so perhaps we sholda brought in a different LeFleur who's offense is in lock step with our new LT?

Seems like we're stuffing square pegs into round holes. Sound familiar?


You don’t make a HC hiring decision based on the presence of an aging ILB.

The move to the 4-3 was a good call.  It’s very difficult to make a 3-4 base work in today’s NFL.  The problem is HOW we’re running our 4-3 and the personnel available.  Add pass rushers and stop trying to convert guys to LB who can’t handle those duties and we’ll be much better on D. 

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The 4-3 that the Jets wanted to run usually had only 2 LBs on the field and 5 DBs. So signing Davis to play with Mosley and Cashman, and then drafting some rookies, was a decent plan.  It did not work.  If it were not for Quincy they would have been screwed.   They should have kept Neville Hewitt. 

The Good News?  The plan for 2022 will be the exact same thing.  Davis will walk and JD should sign 2 more LBs, or at least 1.  Mosley will be back.  Sherwood and Nas will recover and train.  And we will draft a few more, likely higher.  

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22 hours ago, Warfish said:

Curious, did you say that at the time, that is was an obvious bad signing, and did you say why? 

Because most folks didn't think that at the time by my memory, and they certainly didn't say "because the whole team sucks" as the reason for it being a bad signing.

I don't agree, for the record, I think it was a solid signing given what was known at the time.

I was completely perplexed by this signing initially, I didn't dislike the player but the contract was way too high. It's not a position I would have pegged us to spend a lot of money on after bringing in Avery Williamson.

Once he opt out that contract got even worse cause we had to wait another year to cut him.

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8 hours ago, FootballLove said:

Love it when fans say "You don't pay a LB $17 who's the wrong fit for the defense".

We already had CJ here b/4 the new sheriff rolled into town with his 'new' defense. Maybe we should a hired a different Sheriff whos new defense was a much better fit for our grossly overpaid Middle LBer? 

Same with Becton "Becton sucks running LeFleur's spread offense". Welp, Big B was here BEFORE LeFleur, so perhaps we sholda brought in a different LeFleur who's offense is in lock step with our new LT?

Seems like we're stuffing square pegs into round holes. Sound familiar?

New coach installs systems he favors, news at 11. 
 
The big problem on the defensive side of the ball is that this scheme is predicated on getting a pass rush from the front four. Once Lawson went down, the team was at a serious disadvantage. Then money made JFM invisible. Mosley would look a lot better if the opposing QBs had less time to throw the ball. The other issue is moving from the 3-4 -a defense primarily designed to stop the run- to more of a pass defense 4-3. It was predictable that the Jets would struggle against the run this year. I know I predicted it. 
 
As for Becton, he looked fine before he got hurt. That’s his only issue, and it has nothing to do with their style of offense and everything to do with his ability to stay healthy. 

4 hours ago, varjet said:

The 4-3 that the Jets wanted to run usually had only 2 LBs on the field and 5 DBs. So signing Davis to play with Mosley and Cashman, and then drafting some rookies, was a decent plan.  It did not work.  If it were not for Quincy they would have been screwed.   They should have kept Neville Hewitt. 

The Good News?  The plan for 2022 will be the exact same thing.  Davis will walk and JD should sign 2 more LBs, or at least 1.  Mosley will be back.  Sherwood and Nas will recover and train.  And we will draft a few more, likely higher.  

As you say, the “4-3,” in practical terms, is really a 4-2-5. The nickel is the base defense in today’s NFL, and has been for some time. I don’t see them adding four or more LBs when there’s generally only two on the field. If they make a splash at LB in free agency, it could signal a willingness to eat Mosley’s contract and cut him outright. But someone made the point earlier that next season is basically a contract year for him, and the team might be well served to let him play it out here. I agree. 
 
Edge will probably be the #1 priority in the draft, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they traded up to get one. A S/MLB in the first few rounds is also a probability. As for the plan being the same, I could definitely see safeties and CB with the later picks once again - but this time to actually play safety. 

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On 11/27/2021 at 8:27 AM, Warfish said:

In hindsight, sure.

In that moment, I don't think so.  Mosely was a 4x pro-bowler who had missed all of 3 starts in 5 seasons.

No GM could have known he'd get hurt and lose a year in the first game as a Jet.

No GM could have predicted COVID, and that Mosely would choose to sit for a year after his lost year.

I'm happy to assign blame where appropriate, but this one isn't it.  On it's face, signing Mosely looked like a very good move, justified by how well he played that one shining first half as a Jet before it all came crumbling down.

Now?  He's a guy who basically didn't play football for two years (2019, 2020) and he just isn't the same guy now.

Sucks, but hard to say any GM "should have known" this would be the outcome IMO.

1) This isn't actually true. Mosely, the player, looked like a good move. Mosely the contract was ridiculous; he blew away the then-top-of-market, and 3-4 ILB is not typically where you want to pour your resources. OLB, sure. ILB? No, thanks, not unless you're getting Ray Lewis. It was a bad contract the day it was signed

2) The bigger issue is the switch to the 4-3; Mosely was built for the 3-4, physically. He had to completely reshape his body for this D and I wouldn't be surprised to see him play better next year. Not great, not up to his contract, but meaningfully better 

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On 11/27/2021 at 8:44 AM, Warfish said:

So what position should we pay when "the whole team sucks", and do you presume when signing FA's that the "whole team will suck" the entire length of that contract?

Seems an odd way to run a team to me.

Curious, did you say that at the time, that is was an obvious bad signing, and did you say why? 

Because most folks didn't think that at the time by my memory, and they certainly didn't say "because the whole team sucks" as the reason for it being a bad signing.

I don't agree, for the record, I think it was a solid signing given what was known at the time.

 

QB, OL, WR, Pass Rusher.

In that order, if you have (or have the chance to get) a good to great QB. Pass rush first if you don't have the QB in place, followed by the OL. Given that we had just drafted Darnold, the obvious move was to load up the OL to protect him and give him time to develop; if you're going to overpay anywhere, overpay there. Instead, we dumped a crapton of money into ILB and RB after dumping two premium picks into S the year before taking Darnold.

Here's the OverTheCap reaction to the deal at the time, btw

Contract-Grades-Over-the-Cap.png

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12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Many here said it was a bad contract the moment it was signed. 

So alot of people are now claiming.  A few search's here at JN show some folks miiiiiight just be full of sh*t, but sure.

/shrug, ok, you all saw the future and nailed the analysis and totally got it right, I guess.   

I was wrong it seems, this signing everyone foresaw as disaster. :-k

 

 

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I haven’t read a single post, but I’m wondering why would we want to cut Mosely?

Ive never seen fans like the the ones on this board.. Most of you worry more about the cap than you do about keeping good players.Take a look at the Rams and Bucs. The cap can be easily maneuvered around by good teams.

At some point you need to accumulate players and start winning. That’s what football is about, not having the most cap space and the highest pick.

*Rant over*

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6 hours ago, Warfish said:

So alot of people are now claiming.  A few search's here at JN show some folks miiiiiight just be full of sh*t, but sure.

/shrug, ok, you all saw the future and nailed the analysis and totally got it right, I guess.   

I was wrong it seems, this signing everyone foresaw as disaster. :-k

Yes, correct, a lot of people saw this for what it was.  Even if Mosley ended up a very good player for us, it was still a terrible contract.  Believe it or not.  This wasn't a lauded move by all or even close to it at the time it was made.  You don't hand QB money to an ILB, that locks him up for a minimum of 3 years, and not find plenty of detractors around here. 

Not all Jets fans are the brightest bunch but we have quite a few capologist types who understand basic tenets of market inefficiency and resource allocation. 

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, correct, a lot of people saw this for what it was.  Even if Mosley ended up a very good player for us, it was still a terrible contract.  Believe it or not.  This wasn't a lauded move by all or even close to it at the time it was made.  You don't hand QB money to an ILB, that locks him up for a minimum of 3 years, and not find plenty of detractors around here. 

Not all Jets fans are the brightest bunch but we have quite a few capologist types who understand basic tenets of market inefficiency and resource allocation. 

Ok.

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35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, correct, a lot of people saw this for what it was.  Even if Mosley ended up a very good player for us, it was still a terrible contract.  Believe it or not.  This wasn't a lauded move by all or even close to it at the time it was made.  You don't hand QB money to an ILB, that locks him up for a minimum of 3 years, and not find plenty of detractors around here. 

Not all Jets fans are the brightest bunch but we have quite a few capologist types who understand basic tenets of market inefficiency and resource allocation. 

Two things can be true.  Mosley is a very good player (not elite) and he's overpaid.

It's similar to how some people feel about Quinnen Williams.  He's our best defensive lineman and a Top 5 or 6 NFL DT, but he probably wasn't worth the #3 overall pick.

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, correct, a lot of people saw this for what it was.  Even if Mosley ended up a very good player for us, it was still a terrible contract.  Believe it or not.  This wasn't a lauded move by all or even close to it at the time it was made.  You don't hand QB money to an ILB, that locks him up for a minimum of 3 years, and not find plenty of detractors around here. 

Not all Jets fans are the brightest bunch but we have quite a few capologist types who understand basic tenets of market inefficiency and resource allocation. 

 

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Ok.

 

Primarily to satisfy my own curiosity as to who, specifically, was against the Mosley signing at the time, here were some of the takes I was talking about:

 

  

On 3/13/2019 at 12:12 PM, sec101row23 said:

Well he just spent $160 million dollars on an ILBer, RB and slot receiver.  Is that good? 

  

On 3/13/2019 at 12:35 PM, PCP63 said:

Great signing of Bell. Bad signing of an ILB that can't cover. Great idea to still fire Mac. His 2 decade rebuild is too slow. 

  

On 3/13/2019 at 12:35 PM, ZachEY said:

It is good that, on a move that he probably shouldn't have made, for a player no one else wanted to pay, that he didn't bid against himself and pay Bell any more money.

Then again, he paid CJ Mosley 85 million dollars to take a recent 1st round pick's job.

So, maybe we can pretend he paid Bell more, and Mosley less.

  

On 3/13/2019 at 12:38 PM, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Cj Mosley for 85 million is a massive overpay. Do you realize he will be making 5 million a year more than Luke keuckly. Insane. 

  

On 3/13/2019 at 12:42 PM, RutgersJetFan said:

So far as I can tell this offseason has been comprised of having to overpay for non-premium positions because of his inability to find players at those positions in the draft. The Jets went into this offseason lacking at every single skill position excepting QB and they are still lacking those things. Bell, Crowder, and Mosley are fine players but this isn't how anyone else that's good seems to do things.

  

On 3/13/2019 at 2:41 PM, Bleedin Green said:

Oh, and serious question, when has a team "winning" free agency ever actually turned out well for that team?  We've seen it time and time again, GMs can't simply buy their way out of their own incompetence.

  

On 3/13/2019 at 8:27 PM, dbatesman said:

Relax, only $51mm of it is guaranteed.

  

On 3/13/2019 at 8:47 PM, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

And this is just like a regular linebacker? He doesn’t fly or shoot laser beams out of his eyes or anything?

 

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10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Primarily to satisfy my own curiosity as to who, specifically, was against the Mosley signing at the time, here were some of the takes I was talking about:

Holy sh*t opened that thread and this is a ******* banger if I've ever read one.

On 3/13/2019 at 4:50 PM, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Your logic is flawed in that you base  Mike Maccagnan's success or failure as a GM solely on the success of the team on the field.

 

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