If you are afraid to let your QB throw.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

So that's it? Wilson is a bust. Time to cut him and draft another QB that you will hate after a couple of bad games? 

Yeah that about sums it up.

If he keep sucking like this, at the very least, bring in QB1 competition this offseason, in the form of a veteran like Mitchell Trubisky.   @jgb

[Jetsfan80]

57 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

I don't get it. A priori, all of us would sign up for a 150y run day where you don't ask Zach to do to much and let him manage the game to a win (which he did converting some key third and fourth downs late in the game). We won.

The point is...how sustainable is that?  When are we going to play another game this year where the defense pitches a shutout in the 2nd half?  When are we going to play a run defense as bad as Houston's again this year?  How often can we expect to win NFL games with a QB throwing for less than 150 yards?

There's no rule in the NFL where if your opponent scores 14 points, you have to win by just one score.  Competent teams with competent QB's are able to let their QB sling it and win today by 17.  

None of the things the Jets did to win today are sustainable.  Play like they did today the rest of the year, and they don't win another game.  But we'll always have today's win!

[Prodigal Syndicate]

Our passing game went from top 10 in the league in yards without wilson to back to looking bottom 5 in the league with wilson.

I am not sure what else needs to be said. The kid stinks.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, FootballLove said:

I think that leg brace on his right leg probably effected his running around the pocket, planting, and throwing. After that out-of-bounds sack he was limping around on it pretty good....he said in his presser his knee didn't feel strong but he played through it. A wobbly, loose knee joint would affect anyone, especially a young QB who likes to dance and run around before locking his feet and throwing down field. 

I'm not really sure his knee was ready to play yet.

Didn’t Saleh say he wouldn’t bring Zach back unless he was 100%?

[ryu79]

47 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Why do homers see evaluation and analysis as misery?

(P.S. Not miserable, but do think Zach played mostly poorly today).

I see all kinds of references to today being torture (not necessarily by you but you replied defensively to my comment) - hence the misery reference. 

I enjoyed the come back and don't think that makes me a homer. 

Zach didn't look good and owned up to it - but the fact that we kept going back to the run down the stretch when it was working just made sense to me, we've been complaining about the team not establishing the run for ages...

 

[Jetsfan80]

53 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Why do homers see evaluation and analysis as misery?

(P.S. Not miserable, but do think Zach played mostly poorly today).

It's projection.  They can't handle the idea of the young QB they've invested so much emotion into being terrible.  So that misery they feel deep down about having a hopeless QB situation is pushed on to the "haters" instead.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

I see all kinds of references to today being torture (not necessarily by you but you replied defensively to my comment) - hence the misery reference. 

I enjoyed the come back and don't think that makes me a homer. 

Zach didn't look good and owned up to it - but the fact that we kept going back to the run down the stretch when it was working just made sense to me, we've been complaining about the team not establishing the run for ages...

We've only been complaining about that because we haven't had a QB.  When you don't have a QB, people tend to find something else to blame.  Like the running game.  It's a convenient misdirection.

And as for Wilson "owning up to it", I'm so f**king tired hearing about how our QB has essentially said "I have to play better" in a postgame press conference.  I get that that's all we can expect him to say, but it's like fans lap it up every time and think it means he'll do better next time.  He won't.  

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's projection.  They can't handle the idea of the young QB they've invested so much emotion into being terrible.  So that misery they feel deep down about having a hopeless QB situation is pushed on to the "haters" instead.

At least we have confirmation of why so many of these same dudes were happy about White struggling against the Bills. They’re so invested in Wilson and his draft slot that watching the team and the fanbase having some fun with White under center was, for them, like getting cuckolded on the National stage.

[Jet Life]

It wasn’t a good game from Wilson. He's probably not ready and the team should have gotten a vet to bring him along. Doesn’t mean he’s a bust (Lance is sitting now, plenty of QBs have) but shouldn’t have handed him the job with no competition

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

At least we have confirmation of why so many of these same dudes were happy about White struggling against the Bills. They’re so invested in Wilson and his draft slot that watching the team and the fanbase having some fun with White under center was, for them, getting cuckolded on the National stage.

The nice thing is they can't blame Wilson's struggles on the OC or supporting cast, at least.  With Darnold you could at least say, legitimately, that the team didn't do him many favors.  Not so in Wilson's case.  

It'll be quite entertaining to see which outside-of-the-box excuses they DO make, however.  "Rust" has been a fantastic one today.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

56 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Reductio ad absurdism may earn you some high fives, but it's not an actual argument.

Wilson is probably a bust, yes.  He's looked worse than Darnold, Sanchez, or Geno really ever has.  He has exactly zero fundamentals.  He'll get the rest of this season, but there's absolutely no way you can give him next year without earning it.  He shouldn't have gotten this year without earning it either.

Again, it's not about me and who I like.  It's about not running head first into the same brick wall that the Jets, and their loyal lemmings, have done year after year.

Supposedly he did “earn it” in training camp.

The exact same throws you see him missing, many times wildly, he hit in training camp, easily.

That’s why Chris Simms thinks everything bad you’re seeing now is easily correctable.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Jet Life said:

It wasn’t a good game from Wilson. He's probably not ready and the team should have gotten a vet to bring him along. Doesn’t mean he’s a bust (Lance is sitting now, plenty of QBs have) but shouldn’t have handed him the job with no competition

He essentially received competition from 3 different QB's this season and is still doing worse than all 3.  You would think wanting to do better than 3 backup QB's would have been incentive enough to play well today.  

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The nice thing is they can't blame Wilson's struggles on the OC or supporting cast, at least.  With Darnold you could at least say, legitimately, that the team didn't do him many favors.  Not so in Wilson's case.  

Instead what I’m reading tonight is that Wilson played a heroic game on one leg against the Steel Curtain defense and Ty Johnson should have had caught the ball with his back hair.

[Wit]

Just now, T0mShane said:

Instead what I’m reading tonight is that Wilson played a heroic game on one leg against the Steel Curtain defense and Ty Johnson should have had caught the ball with his back hair.

Pass defense. 

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

I see all kinds of references to today being torture (not necessarily by you but you replied defensively to my comment) - hence the misery reference. 

It was an ugly, mostly meaningless win in which the one player all of us care abut played pretty poorly. 

I can see why some might get all up in some hyperbole on that.  it didn't show much that points to a positive future, which at 2-8 is what we're playing for now.  The future.

But for me, a win is a win, and I enjoyed it.  

7 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

I enjoyed the come back and don't think that makes me a homer.

It doesn't.

7 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

Zach didn't look good and owned up to it

Who cares if he "owned up to it", words are both easy and cheap.  The meaningful part is how he played, poorly.

7 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

- but the fact that we kept going back to the run down the stretch when it was working just made sense to me, we've been complaining about the team not establishing the run for ages...

Zach's poor play is what most folks are unhappy about, not the running game. 

The two are not mutually exclusive things.  The running game being good should have helped Zach play better.  Not worse.

[JoJoTownsell1]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He essentially received competition from 3 different QB's this season and is still doing worse than all 3.  You would think wanting to do better than 3 backup QB's would have been incentive enough to play well today.  

Wilson has 2 wins. Those incredible backups have combined for 1. 

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Wilson has 2 wins. Those incredible backups have combined for 1. 

Wilson is the # 2 overall pick.  Joe Flacco is semi-retired, Mike White was a 5th round pick castoff by the Cowboys (and cut a few times by the Jets themselves) with 0 career snaps entering the season, and Josh Johnson has changed employers about 13 times in his career.  

Wilson is currently the 4th best QB on the roster, and that's quite sad.  

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Wilson is the # 2 overall pick.  Joe Flacco is semi-retired, Mike White was a 5th round pick castoff by multiple teams, and Josh Johnson has changed employers about 13 times in his career.  

Wilson is currently the 4th best QB on the roster, and that's quite sad.  

Not only is he the fourth best QB on the roster, he actually lost ground in that race today. 

[Larz]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not only is he the fourth best QB on the roster, he actually lost ground in that race today. 

Own your depth chart. Let’s see it

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not only is he the fourth best QB on the roster, he actually lost ground in that race today. 

I'd be curious to see how the locker room celebrated today's win and juxtapose it with how they celebrated the Bengal win.  

[Larz]

Awwww. Somebody left the thread 

 

@T0mShane

[JoJoTownsell1]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Wilson is the # 2 overall pick.  Joe Flacco is semi-retired, Mike White was a 5th round pick castoff by the Cowboys (and cut a few times by the Jets themselves) with 0 career snaps entering the season, and Josh Johnson has changed employers about 13 times in his career.  

Wilson is currently the 4th best QB on the roster, and that's quite sad.  

I get it, Darnold hurt you and you're scared Wilson will to.

[undertow]

19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Wilson is the # 2 overall pick.  Joe Flacco is semi-retired, Mike White was a 5th round pick castoff by the Cowboys (and cut a few times by the Jets themselves) with 0 career snaps entering the season, and Josh Johnson has changed employers about 13 times in his career.  

Wilson is currently the 4th best QB on the roster, and that's quite sad.  

These people can't acknowledge that the team offensively looks completely different when Wilson isn't under center so arguing about anything else is a waste of time.  I'm not sure if they don't know what they are watching or it's just gaslighting. ...I'm guessing it's the latter there seems to be  a lot of cult members running around these days.

[ryu79]

44 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The point is...how sustainable is that?  When are we going to play another game this year where the defense pitches a shutout in the 2nd half?  When are we going to play a run defense as bad as Houston's again this year?  How often can we expect to win NFL games with a QB throwing for less than 150 yards?

There's no rule in the NFL where if your opponent scores 14 points, you have to win by just one score.  Competent teams with competent QB's are able to let their QB sling it and win today by 17.  

None of the things the Jets did to win today are sustainable.  Play like they did today the rest of the year, and they don't win another game.  But we'll always have today's win!

I think what you are getting at is that is unclear what this teams MO is going to be. We are inconsistent week to week. 

If this was a Rex team, scoring 21 points would be considered sufficient to win. And I remember Big Ben early in his career with the Steelers winning lots of games where he threw under 200 yards because their game was predicated on the run. 

I think this is a really valid point and I have no idea what kind of team we want to be. Until we have some semblance of consistency nothing will be sustainable.

[ryu79]

42 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We've only been complaining about that because we haven't had a QB.  When you don't have a QB, people tend to find something else to blame.  Like the running game.  It's a convenient misdirection.

And as for Wilson "owning up to it", I'm so f**king tired hearing about how our QB has essentially said "I have to play better" in a postgame press conference.  I get that that's all we can expect him to say, but it's like fans lap it up every time and think it means he'll do better next time.  He won't.  

I think this was different because he got asked the softball how great was the win today and other recent QBs have run with celebrating. He didn't. That doesn't mean he will be great but it was a different response than we've had through the years. 

[sourceworx]

58 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sounds to me like you're assuming it wouldn't have worked out very well if they let Wilson throw.  

You and I both know some on here would have bitched about the call regardless of the outcome.

[ryu79]

37 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

The two are not mutually exclusive things.  The running game being good should have helped Zach play better.  Not worse.

And it did right? He objectively played better in the second half after we established the run.

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I get it, Darnold hurt you and you're scared Wilson will to.

Darnold looked better as a rookie and with a weaker supporting cast.  I'm fully confident Wilson has already "hurt me", because he sucks.  

I refuse to emotionally invest in a young QB until he gives me good reason to do so.  College tape isn't enough, and Wilson hasn't given me a good reason.

[jgb]

55 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah that about sums it up.

If he keep sucking like this, at the very least, bring in QB1 competition this offseason, in the form of a veteran like Mitchell Trubisky.   @jgb

Noooo another competent player on the roster will break his confidence!!!!!!!!

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

I think what you are getting at is that is unclear what this teams MO is going to be. We are inconsistent week to week. 

If this was a Rex team, scoring 21 points would be considered sufficient to win. And I remember Big Ben early in his career with the Steelers winning lots of games where he threw under 200 yards because their game was predicated on the run. 

I think this is a really valid point and I have no idea what kind of team we want to be. Until we have some semblance of consistency nothing will be sustainable.

One thing is clear:  Depending on a running game in the NFL in 2021 doesn't work.  You need a QB.  We also need a much better defense, yes, but that doesn't matter if you don't have a QB.  

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Darnold looked better as a rookie and with a weaker supporting cast.  I'm fully confident Wilson has already "hurt me", because he sucks.  

He’d be a bigger historical outlier than Allen to turn it around to FQB at this point. Going with the odds that lightening ain’t striking twice in the same division within 3 years.

[ryu79]

44 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The nice thing is they can't blame Wilson's struggles on the OC or supporting cast, at least.  With Darnold you could at least say, legitimately, that the team didn't do him many favors.  Not so in Wilson's case.  

It'll be quite entertaining to see which outside-of-the-box excuses they DO make, however.  "Rust" has been a fantastic one today.

This is encouraging for sure and it's what makes the question Stream asked in another thread worth pondering. 

I hope he plays well enough in the games we have left that he earns the spot (or trade comp), but it's objectively a different situation with regard to the supporting cast. Even the LDT move seems to be helping the run game which was important today.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

And it did right? He objectively played better in the second half after we established the run.

He went from "worst QB play I've ever seen" to "Well he didn't f**k up so that's nice" in the 2nd half.  If that's progress I guess people can get excited about it if they want?  

[jgb]

57 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah that about sums it up.

If he keep sucking like this, at the very least, bring in QB1 competition this offseason, in the form of a veteran like Mitchell Trubisky.   @jgb

So… I was right. Shocker.

[jgb]

Just now, ryu79 said:

This is encouraging for sure and it's what makes the question Stream asked in another thread worth pondering. 

I hope he plays well enough in the games we have left that he earns the spot (or trade comp), but it's objectively a different situation with regard to the supporting cast. Even the LDT move seems to be helping the run game which was important today.

Two thinks are certain. He will get his chance through the end of the year. And if he fails — excuses will be plentiful.