How much of Wilson's problems are mental? (i.e. the yips)

[Drums]

1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

The yips was a term initially used in golf with putting, or the inability to putt fluidly, pulling, pushing, stopping the putting stroke too soon.  

So then by what gets said in the Mafia forum, this certainly isn’t a problem for @Jetsfan80

[sec101row23]

His accuracy is abysmal.   Even on completed passes his ball placement is so bad that the receivers can’t do anything once they catch it.  There were a few completions to Moore where he threw the ball too low and Moore had no chance for any YAC.   

[elvispookie]

His entire problem is inside his head.  100%.  Prime example was when he ran backwards into the end zone... not that play but the one which preceded it.  If you remember, he threw a side arm pass that was almost intercepted.. the next play was the run through the end zone.  Zach, according to Zach, is only as good as the previous play.  So once you see on play go bad, expect a 3 and out - he just doesnt seem to recover mentally.  

[The Crusher]

8 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

I’m sorry what is this slow processor thing now? Which plays from yesterday were the result of a slow processor? 

It’s ok to not challenge every single point like the board owes you an explanation for any critique about Zach. It’s a message board, we discuss things. We try to monitor behavior not content for the most part. 

[munchmemory]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

It’s ok to not challenge every single point like the board owes you am explanation for any critique about Zach. It’s a message board, we discuss things. We try to monitor behavior not content for the most part. 

Sometimes, we just need to vent.   Get out the frustration.   At those moments, the last thing I want to do is explain myself or my opinion.   

[Uncle Nicco]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

It’s ok to not challenge every single point like the board owes you an explanation for any critique about Zach. It’s a message board, we discuss things. We try to monitor behavior not content for the most part. 

I asked a question, why don’t you answer it? isn’t this a discussion board? 

[Scott Dierking]

For athletes, they have to let the game slow down for them.  Just watch Aaron Rodgers. You can tell he is processing practically everything at once. "Oh, there is a flag to my left on the defense, I can go try to hit a home run ball with my receiver to the left on the fly. Or, I have the match-up in the slot that we talked about in meetings that is advantageous". This is stuff that has to flow in the pace of the game.

Now take Wilson, his thought process almost appears to be, " I can't believe I just missed that guy wide open. I can't do that again. I better make an adjustment. Oops, I over compensated. Can't go high, because if I go high, and miss, it may just get tipped and be intercepted. Can't make mistakes".

Of course, I have no idea what he is thinking. But it sure looks that way.

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

His accuracy is abysmal.   Even on completed passes his ball placement is so bad that the receivers can’t do anything once they catch it.  There were a few completions to Moore where he threw the ball too low and Moore had no chance for any YAC.   

And that’s as important as anything for a QB.  Can be the difference between mediocre and great.  Troy Aikman was brilliant at this. 

[sec101row23]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

And that’s as important as anything for a QB.  Can be the difference between mediocre and great.  Troy Aikman was brilliant at this. 

Agreed.  Especially on the shorter passes to the RBs, ball placement is everything.   Watch Mac Jones throw those shorter passes, his placement is excellent and his RBs catch the ball in stride and turn upfield.  Zach makes them stop their route, turn the wrong way and break momentum.   It’s concerning.  

[Sonny Werblin]

Too much thinking and processing, especially early in games. I remember when Pennington first became a starter. He had a similar problem. Herm gave him the very good advice that trusting your instincts is not blind faith. It is trusting your practice, your teammates and your coaching. Their is no time to "think" during a play and you have to trust your instincts and just throw the darn ball. I really think the Jets should make a play to convince CP to be QB coach next season because I believe he and Zach are simpatico when it comes to the mental approach to the game.  

[Smashmouth]

What I find very weird is that in pre season he looked the part. He was accurate, he was looking off safeties and he was scanning the field like a seasoned Vet . Then the regular season and he cant hit a player in stride or with any accuracy at all. A lot of his completions causing players to have to constantly adjust (he had many of those yesterday) is not going to fly in this league. What's even more alarming is he's making mistakes and bad throws even when there is no pressure. He also seems to be getting worse with his accuracy could it be possible there is something wrong with his arm ? I say this because he always threw a tight spiral now he's throwing wobblers . Makes no sense to me

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  Especially on the shorter passes to the RBs, ball placement is everything.   Watch Mac Jones throw those shorter passes, his placement is excellent and his RBs catch the ball in stride and turn upfield.  Zach makes them stop their route, turn the wrong way and break momentum.   It’s concerning.  

it’s also why My Quite was so effective against the Bengals (and Colts in his limited time in that game). 

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

I asked a question, why don’t you answer it? isn’t this a discussion board? 

Because I know what I see and really don’t care if you don’t see the same thing? Kids processing the game slower now than he did earlier in the year. I don’t need to debate specific plays so you can validate yourself as the official defender of Zach Wilson. It was the same thing with Sam. Your schtick is getting old. 

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

For athletes, they have to let the game slow down for them.  Just watch Aaron Rodgers. You can tell he is processing practically everything at once. "Oh, there is a flag to my left on the defense, I can go try to hit a home run ball with my receiver to the left on the fly. Or, I have the match-up in the slot that we talked about in meetings that is advantageous". This is stuff that has to flow in the pace of the game.

Now take Wilson, his thought process almost appears to be, " I can't believe I just missed that guy wide open. I can't do that again. I better make an adjustment. Oops, I over compensated. Can't go high, because if I go high, and miss, it may just get tipped and be intercepted. Can't make mistakes".

Of course, I have no idea what he is thinking. But it sure looks that way.

The game is definitely too fast for wilson.  He reminds me of a new golfer who’s been given a lot of advice on all aspects of a swing.  First swing is a slice, so he focuses on that to prevent that next time.  Then next time, no slice, but something else goes wrong.  Wilson is way too mechanical right now, you can tell his head is swimming and he’s not playing naturally.  I do believe the short pass accuracy will improve as he just gets more reps.  

The best thing about wilson yesterday was that when the jets were losing he wasn’t forcing longer passes into traffic that produced the ints that would have killed the game.  He took the shorter stuff and let the running game carry the team.  This was the anticipated blueprint for the office at the beginning of the season, until the OL broke down and the running game was non-existent.  

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, Smashmouth said:

What I find very weird is that in pre season he looked the part. He was accurate, he was looking off safeties and he was scanning the field like a seasoned Vet . Then the regular season and he cant hit a player in stride or with any accuracy at all. A lot of his completions causing players to have to constantly adjust (he had many of those yesterday) is not going to fly in this league. What's even more alarming is he's making mistakes and bad throws even when there is no pressure. He also seems to be getting worse with his accuracy could it be possible there is something wrong with his arm ? I say this because he always threw a tight spiral now he's throwing wobblers . Makes no sense to me

Could be his mechanics and him adjusting to the speed of the game.  I always said this when it came to Sam but Sam was  younger plus had a horrific OL, crap weapons, and a historically bad HC for 2 years (Gase).  I still think we might have ruined Sam.  We’ll see what happens with Zach.  

[JoJoTownsell1]

38 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Anyone who watched 10 seconds of Hackenberg’s final year in college knows he had the yips long before he came to the Jets. 

This. 

The reason Hack went from a possible #1 overall pick to a guy that "fell" to us in the 2nd round was because he had the "yips" in college. The Jets may not have done a good job fixing him, but you they certainly didn't break him. 

[Uncle Nicco]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Because I know what I see and really don’t care if you don’t see the same thing? Kids processing the game slower now than he did earlier in the year. I don’t need to debate specific plays so you can validate yourself as the official defender of Zach Wilson. It was the same thing with Sam. Your schtick is getting old. 

If you can’t back up your opinions then they are just hot air. I’ve done nothing but explain my thought process yet get sh*t on for it. This place is sad. 

[Joe W. Namath]

Its 100% mental.  Even on his completions he is off.  The big play to berrios was a bad, low throw and he hit cole 1 time and it was way behind him.

We now know why John Beck is here.  Its not to help him w/ his mechanics.  Its to have a guy around him who hes close with to help him mentally.

This is very concerning.  The last thing i thought wilson would be struggling w/ was his mind.

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The game is definitely too fast for wilson.  He reminds me of a new golfer who’s been given a lot of advice on all aspects of a swing.  First swing is a slice, so he focuses on that to prevent that next time.  Then next time, no slice, but something else goes wrong.  Wilson is way too mechanical right now, you can tell his head is swimming and he’s not playing naturally.  I do believe the short pass accuracy will improve as he just gets more reps.  

The best thing about wilson yesterday was that when the jets were losing he wasn’t forcing longer passes into traffic that produced the ints that would have killed the game.  He took the shorter stuff and let the running game carry the team.  This was the anticipated blueprint for the office at the beginning of the season, until the OL broke down and the running game was non-existent.  

That is how the Patriots have developed Jones. He has been dinking it and dunking it since week 1. Now that he has confidence he has been airing it out a little more. But the Pats have been winning with their defense/run game/short passing game all season. 

[NYJ37/12]

I dont think its anything more than extreme nerves and wanting to succeed to the point of mental paralysis. Once he builds confidence and he knows that he can compete at this level, he will be good.  Just my observation.

[munchmemory]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

Could be his mechanics and him adjusting to the speed of the game.  I always said this when it came to Sam but Sam was  younger plus had a horrific OL, crap weapons, and a historically bad HC for 2 years (Gase).  I still think we might have ruined Sam.  We’ll see what happens with Zach.  

Over the years, I and lots of others have written that the preseason is pretty much meaningless in terms of evaluating a QB.  Until they face a "live fire" NFL D, you just don't have any idea if they can perform well.  

Notice how all the yuks and smiles from Saleh and players went away once the season started?  It becomes a chess match between DCs and OCs, with DCs having the advantage (at least initially) of confusing young QBs by disguising coverages, blitzes, etc.  

Right now, Zack Wilson is getting played by DCs causing him to rush throws/progressions.   And it shows.  Either that, or he's a natural disaster who will never make it in the NFL.

[Smashmouth]

41 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

I don’t agree that his decision making the last 4 weeks has been suspect, he has 3 picks, Corey Davis slipped on one and the back pick was the unluckiest play I’ve ever seen.

I think his accuracy issues are mostly mental right now. I did see this in college but it was 1/10 short throws not 5/10. If you look at the pre season and weeks 1-4 this wasn’t an issue. 

Despite the accuracy issues which hopefully are temporary, Wilson has shown progress since the Tennessee game. 

Let’s not forget that before the Ten game the narrative was Wilson’s lack of support. Dropped balls, OL issues, play calling. This narrative around the accuracy started in the 4th Q of Tennessee with the miss to griffin. 

There were plays that obviously were not Wilsons fault, a few to Davis stand out no doubt about that but his accuracy has been Horrible on top of the drops and the tipped balls. Mike White threw 3 passes that were right in the hands of a RB and a WR that were dropped and tipped into defenders hands yet I see no mention of that from you at all. Its nice to have faith and optimism in a young QB but I can count on one hand the big plays this kid made so far but I don't have enough hands and feet to count how dreadful he's been over all. With Wilson in the game this team averages around 250 total yards a games without him they average over 400 and over the first few weeks he was not in the lineup the Jets actually led the NFL in yards over a 3 week span.

[munchmemory]

9 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Because I know what I see and really don’t care if you don’t see the same thing? Kids processing the game slower now than he did earlier in the year. I don’t need to debate specific plays so you can validate yourself as the official defender of Zach Wilson. It was the same thing with Sam. Your schtick is getting old. 

Gallows Air flight warming up on the runway?

[Scott Dierking]

On the PLUS side, and this has to be made, Zach DID check down more yesterday, and if a play was not there, did not force it as much as he had in prior weeks. BETTER there. And that is a start.

[Smashmouth]

4 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

If you can’t back up your opinions then they are just hot air. I’ve done nothing but explain my thought process yet get sh*t on for it. This place is sad. 

Nope what's sad is you are 100 % one sided backing up a QB who is playing at a historically bad level . You want people to take you seriously then start making some sense and realize that the narrative you are pushing is ridiculous

[Uncle Nicco]

9 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

There were plays that obviously were not Wilsons fault, a few to Davis stand out no doubt about that but his accuracy has been Horrible on top of the drops and the tipped balls. Mike White threw 3 passes that were right in the hands of a RB and a WR that were dropped and tipped into defenders hands yet I see no mention of that from you at all. Its nice to have faith and optimism in a young QB but I can count on one hand the big plays this kid made so far but I don't have enough hands and feet to count how dreadful he's been over all. With Wilson in the game this team averages around 250 total yards a games without him they average over 400 and over the first few weeks he was not in the lineup the Jets actually led the NFL in yards over a 3 week span.

Because Mike White threw 8 picks in 3 games and had 5 other horrible interceptions dropped by defenders. 

The Jets scored 17 points the last two weeks, 21 yesterday. Your yardage will not be as high when you’re playing with a lead and the run game is working. 

[Jetluv58]

21 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

For athletes, they have to let the game slow down for them.  Just watch Aaron Rodgers. You can tell he is processing practically everything at once. "Oh, there is a flag to my left on the defense, I can go try to hit a home run ball with my receiver to the left on the fly. Or, I have the match-up in the slot that we talked about in meetings that is advantageous". This is stuff that has to flow in the pace of the game.

Now take Wilson, his thought process almost appears to be, " I can't believe I just missed that guy wide open. I can't do that again. I better make an adjustment. Oops, I over compensated. Can't go high, because if I go high, and miss, it may just get tipped and be intercepted. Can't make mistakes".

Of course, I have no idea what he is thinking. But it sure looks that way.

R o o k I e

[yvj]

Not sure what Buffalo did with Josh Allen but the Jets needs to steal from that playbook.

[ryu79]

It seemed more like mechanics yesterday than reading the game (in past games, its seemed both). He actually seemed to be going through progressions and moving to check down with time to be effective yesterday, but when he got there his execution of the throw was poor. 

I think he comes out too hyped up and loses his physical discipline early in games and then goes realizing the adjustment he needs to make and probably gets it pointed out to him by the coaches which is why we see him better in 2Hs. 

[Smashmouth]

5 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

Because Mike White had 5 other horrible interceptions dropped by defenders. 

The Jets scored 17 points the last two weeks, 21 yesterday. Your yardage will not be as high when you’re playing with a lead and the run game is working. 

You must be a Wilson family member your blindness is disturbing otherwise

[Uncle Nicco]

1 minute ago, ryu79 said:

It seemed more like mechanics yesterday than reading the game (in past games, its seemed both). He actually seemed to be going through progressions and moving to check down with time to be effective yesterday, but when he got there his execution of the throw was poor. 

I think he comes out too hyped up and loses his physical discipline early in games and then goes realizing the adjustment he needs to make and probably gets it pointed out to him by the coaches which is why we see him better in 2Hs. 

He does a strange thing where he straightens his front leg. 

[Uncle Nicco]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

You must be a Wilson family member your blindness is disturbing otherwise

Which part did you disagree with? Did we not score more points yesterday than the last two weeks? 

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, yvj said:

Not sure what Buffalo did with Josh Allen but the Jets needs to steal from that playbook.

Josh Allen struggled his first year but he was never ever this bad not even close. he had some big games and in reality the only time Zach showed anything at all worth a crap was in the second half of the first game.

[ryu79]

1 minute ago, yvj said:

Not sure what Buffalo did with Josh Allen but the Jets needs to steal from that playbook.

Given the similarity in over reliance on a fast ball and the softer college competitiveness of schedule, this must be the main Jets hope.

[munchmemory]

2 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

It seemed more like mechanics yesterday than reading the game (in past games, its seemed both). He actually seemed to be going through progressions and moving to check down with time to be effective yesterday, but when he got there his execution of the throw was poor. 

I think he comes out too hyped up and loses his physical discipline early in games and then goes realizing the adjustment he needs to make and probably gets it pointed out to him by the coaches which is why we see him better in 2Hs. 

It's going to be interesting this Sunday.   Right now, the Eagles are 11th in the NFL in defense.  A big difference from Houston at 29th.  If Philly plays well, we'll get a clear view on if Zack has made progress or not.