How much of Wilson's problems are mental? (i.e. the yips)

[Barton]

It's mental, you can see it on his face.

But again, this falls on Douglas/Saleh. 

No way this kid should have started week 1. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

This isn't a "see what happens" business. You evaluate players and put the best ones out there.

Then why is Zach starting?

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

Then why is Zach starting?

Because he represents the best future (based on who is on the roster today) for the Jets at the QB position.

 

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, Uncle Nicco said:

Personal attack 

 

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Really ?

Attacking one of his many different persons qualifies. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Isn't practice where a QB wins the job? Do you think White has been tearing it up in practice all year?

And I agree, the Bills are a great D. And I want a great QB who can beat them.  It might not be Zach. It certainly is not Mike White.

I’d bet that white has been doing his usual in practice (a high completion percentage and mostly short passes)

[Snell41]

I’m just gonna take the week off, I’ve been telling people Wilson was not going to be a good NFL QB before he was even a thought as a prospect at #2 overall. JD is lucky he’s seemed to hit on most other picks in this past draft, and he’s gonna have to do it again next year because Zach may sink him as a GM otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Because he represents the best future (based on who is on the roster today) for the Jets at the QB position.

 

If the game is too fast for him right now though maybe he’d benefit from a red-shirt year.  I don’t know that it is btw.  I’m saying “if it is”.  Also if he’s not 100% and the injury is affecting his throwing, I’m also not sure if we’re just ruining his confidence by putting him out there. 

[Larz]

100%
 

it’s funny you mention the yips I thought the same thing. 
 

a good coach could deal with this. 
 

not sure we have a good coach 

[Sonny Werblin]

6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I’d bet that white has been doing his usual in practice (a high completion percentage and mostly short passes)

You'd "bet"? Ok you've convinced me that White was tearing it up in practice. ?

Now explain the desperation trade for Ol' Joe.

[JustInFudge]

This is an interesting thread and I'm eager to read the responses because when you're a fundamental mess, can it be mental?  I'm not sure you're good enough yet to even experience the "yips" when you are as raw as Wilson is at this point.  He was an absolute disaster fundamentally in college, so not sure how this would be considered the "yips" when he's just repeating the same things he did in school.  This is just kind of who he is at this point, which is why I never wanted him to see the field this year.  He needed to be completely broken down and rebuilt into an NFL QB.  

 

[Scott Dierking]

8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If the game is too fast for him right now though maybe he’d benefit from a red-shirt year.  I don’t know that it is btw.  I’m saying “if it is”.  Also if he’s not 100% and the injury is affecting his throwing, I’m also not sure if we’re just ruining his confidence by putting him out there. 

Coaches know him better than you or I do, so I have to trust them. They will ride or die with this decision.

[kevinc855]

Remember Zach is like 22…

Like every other 22 year old when not playing football he prob lives on his phone. These kids read the headlines see social media etx

He knows what people are saying and don’t think people chanting mike white at Metlife didn’t get in his head. 
 

 

[JustInFudge]

3 hours ago, maury77 said:

For those of you that don't follow Matt Waldman, he's a pretty well respected NFL draft guy and I bought his RSP last year. He tracked Wilson's passes from all of his junior games and a couple of his sophomore games. I don't want to post the RSP here, but he had legitimate concerns about Wilson's accuracy (he speaks about it in the following video). I don't think Wilson has the yips, I think this is who he is. 

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2021/04/15/matt-waldmans-rsp-film-room-with-mark-schofield-qb-zach-wilson-byu/

 

 

 

 

Which goes to my first post in this thread, if you're fundamentally flawed with terrible mechanics, are you eligible for the "yips"?  I'd have to say no.  Zach Wilson was never a QB, he was flag Football player running around making sh*t happen vs. nobodies.  What he put on film, was never ever going to translate to the NFL.  Ever.  Which is why if you were the team to draft him, they needed to treat him like the raw project he is and break him down completely and build him back up based on traits.  Which would require a year of sitting and learning.  There was nothing he did in college to give you confidence in his ability to transition to the NFL, despite all the stupid moronic nonsense being spewed from the mouth of Chris Simms. 

This isnt mental.  He was a highly flawed prospect to begin with.

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, Barton said:

It's mental, you can see it on his face.

But again, this falls on Douglas/Saleh. 

No way this kid should have started week 1. 

Disagree, he needed the reps against real competition , he's not getting that sitting on the bench. If he came from a top notch college program which faced quality opposition every week then maybe sitting him might have been ok. 

[Wit]

5 hours ago, slats said:

I definitely believe it’s roughly 100% mental. They alluded to it during the broadcast talking about John Beck’s role with the team being largely to help Zach clear his head. There’s no doubt that he’s pressing. You see these bone-headed plays in the same game where he makes a great run for the TD, and converts two fourth downs and a two-point conversion. Those plays were clutch. It’s about relaxing and doing the routine things. Have to hope that will come as he gets more experience, settles in, has some success and gets more confident. 

Josh Johnson came in to complete the two point conversion. I do agree though, he thought (before the back interception) that they need a larger chunk of yards so instead of running into a few years yards and sliding, let me mahomes this. Well, that was an overthought. He needs to chill out and practice not rifling the balls that he throw two yards. I know its easier said then done with 300 pound linemen in your face, but they should have drills that can beat this out of him. Berrios/the TE/ and Moore bailed him out on quite a few bad throws yesterday. 

[Barton]

17 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Disagree, he needed the reps against real competition , he's not getting that sitting on the bench. If he came from a top notch college program which faced quality opposition every week then maybe sitting him might have been ok. 

Is this sarcasm? If he faced BETTER competition in college it would have made more sense to SIT him week 1??

[Jets Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Which goes to my first post in this thread, if you're fundamentally flawed with terrible mechanics, are you eligible for the "yips"?  I'd have to say no.  Zach Wilson was never a QB, he was flag Football player running around making sh*t happen vs. nobodies.  What he put on film, was never ever going to translate to the NFL.  Ever.  Which is why if you were the team to draft him, they needed to treat him like the raw project he is and break him down completely and build him back up based on traits.  Which would require a year of sitting and learning.  There was nothing he did in college to give you confidence in his ability to transition to the NFL, despite all the stupid moronic nonsense being spewed from the mouth of Chris Simms. 

This isnt mental.  He was a highly flawed prospect to begin with.

The mental gymnastics to not call a spade a spade is perplexing. It's a mechanical issue. It's a timing issue. If you watched two seconds of his college tape you knew that he has good arm talent but plays yolo ball all the time against inferior competition frequently throwing 50-50 balls that his receivers would win a higher percentage of the time because of the talent discrepancy. He lacks touch on the short passes, always throwing the heater no matter the situation. He's still not stepping into his throws consistently, which is infuriating that nobody is drilling this and repping it out of him.

Will he get it fixed? Maybe. I hope so.  He's the QB for at least another 1 or 2 years in all likelihood. This is who he was, a highly risky prospect with physical tools who doesn't have a lot of experience. The people goo-goo over him just ignored that fact. I'm just glad that people had 4 weeks of watching this system operate at a higher level so people actually realize how poor Zach has been and that the system obviously works in the league.

 

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I may regret  asking this but, are you trying to say you see no red flags with Wilson's short passing game?

No.  He didnt do this in college.  And the handful of missed short passes arent enough to get this overblown

[maury77]

From Barstool Sports

 

[More Cowbell]

9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No.  He didnt do this in college.  And the handful of missed short passes arent enough to get this overblown

So seeing him do stuff like this doesn't  bother you?

 

[JohnnyLV]

Serious question: Does anyone know if the NFL approved him uisng Adderall in the NFL? He did use it at BYU

[56mehl56]

46 minutes ago, Barton said:

Is this sarcasm? If he faced BETTER competition in college it would have made more sense to SIT him week 1??

Yes if played better competition he wouldn't absolutely need all the live reps. The fact that he played a meh schedule means he needs all the live reps they can possibly give him. Not sure why this is so hard to comprehend. 

[56mehl56]

5 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Serious question: Does anyone know if the NFL approved him uisng Adderall in the NFL? He did use it at BYU

Not sure - oh look there's a squirrel . 

[Jet Nut]

15 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

So seeing him do stuff like this doesn't  bother you?

 

No, because 1.  Hes a rookie.  

2.  I can pull one pass out of a game from any QB where he misses his receiver.  Even short ones.  

3.  How many passes a game are you talking here.  

[dcJet]

4 hours ago, undertow said:

He's obviously much more of a project then was advertised and should have spent the year on the bench like Lance....the question now is being on the field a positive or negative because things aren't progressing at all and Zach is starting to look mortified is his post game interviews.  I think we are just ruining him tbh.

I don't believe in ruining.  It's not a thing.  

 

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Josh Allen struggled his first year but he was never ever this bad not even close. he had some big games and in reality the only time Zach showed anything at all worth a crap was in the second half of the first game.

Didnt get to see the Titans game?

Or the 1st half he played vs NE?

2nd half this Sunday?

Josh Allen made horrible plays all season.

 

Allen completed 52.9% of his passes for under 2100 yards.  He didnt have any big games, he was terrible 

[#27TheDominator]

54 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

The mental gymnastics to not call a spade a spade is perplexing. It's a mechanical issue. It's a timing issue. If you watched two seconds of his college tape you knew that he has good arm talent but plays yolo ball all the time against inferior competition frequently throwing 50-50 balls that his receivers would win a higher percentage of the time because of the talent discrepancy. He lacks touch on the short passes, always throwing the heater no matter the situation. He's still not stepping into his throws consistently, which is infuriating that nobody is drilling this and repping it out of him.

Will he get it fixed? Maybe. I hope so.  He's the QB for at least another 1 or 2 years in all likelihood. This is who he was, a highly risky prospect with physical tools who doesn't have a lot of experience. The people goo-goo over him just ignored that fact. I'm just glad that people had 4 weeks of watching this system operate at a higher level so people actually realize how poor Zach has been and that the system obviously works in the league.

 

I literally sent only one text message during the game.  It said  It's official.  Wilson is the problem. 

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

So seeing him do stuff like this doesn't  bother you?

 

That throw really can't be judged on "mechanics". he was scrambling, and felt pressure less close than what it was. He looked like he was feeling the rush more there, but it would be hard to say what he was thinking or feeling.

[More Cowbell]

51 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No, because 1.  Hes a rookie.  

2.  I can pull one pass out of a game from any QB where he misses his receiver.  Even short ones.  

3.  How many passes a game are you talking here.  

That's ok. If it doesn't  bother you he blows passes to wide open receivers who aren't  even being covered when he has a clean pocket, there is no point in arguing it. 

[genot]

7 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

When I watch Wilson there are obviously a lot of problems. Despite obvious ability and physical gifts he's played the position poorly in almost every respect. His decision making has been suspect. He doesn't have a good feel for the pocket. He holds the ball too long.

But the thing that has me most concerned -- that seems like something you can't dramatically improve with coaching and experience -- is his horrific accuracy on short to intermediate throws. His ability to simply make routine NFL passes is alarming, and the kind of thing that makes him jump of the page in a way that most "bad" QBs don't. Even Darnold, as awful as he was never had me going "this guy can't play" with the same frequency as he skipped another swing pass in the dirt.

My only hope is that there's something mental going on here -- that he's got the "yips" or something. That it's in his head and he almost has as mental block that can be massaged out of him over time. 

I simply cannot imagine a QB drafted this high, with 20+ games of college film to study, is this poor at making relatively simple throws. I knew he'd take time to adjust to the speed of the game and there was always a chance he wouldn't get there from a mental processing standpoint. But if he doesn't improve his accuracy none of that matters.

I think the word would be touch. I'm not labeling him a bust yet. The thing that concerns me is his great year at BYU. It was almost like a pro day display every Saturday. He got to show off his great arm, almost uncontested. 

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

That's ok. If it doesn't  bother you he blows passes to wide open receivers who aren't  even being covered when he has a clean pocket, there is no point in arguing it. 

You got it, it doesnt bother me that a rookie looks like a rookie.

Again, how many of those uncovered passes has he missed.  Give up a number, 2 a game?  3?  

There is no point in arguing it, its an overreaction 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

The mental gymnastics to not call a spade a spade is perplexing. It's a mechanical issue. It's a timing issue. If you watched two seconds of his college tape you knew that he has good arm talent but plays yolo ball all the time against inferior competition frequently throwing 50-50 balls that his receivers would win a higher percentage of the time because of the talent discrepancy. He lacks touch on the short passes, always throwing the heater no matter the situation. He's still not stepping into his throws consistently, which is infuriating that nobody is drilling this and repping it out of him.

Will he get it fixed? Maybe. I hope so.  He's the QB for at least another 1 or 2 years in all likelihood. This is who he was, a highly risky prospect with physical tools who doesn't have a lot of experience. The people goo-goo over him just ignored that fact. I'm just glad that people had 4 weeks of watching this system operate at a higher level so people actually realize how poor Zach has been and that the system obviously works in the league.

 

I get it.  I really do.  I fell victim to it with Sam, so I understand.  You want it so bad that you ignore conventional wisdom and pretend that things are either "overblown" or "easy to fix" or it's ok because "he's young and other QB's do this too" and "learning the game" and you've seen "glimpses of greatness", etc. And if you were a Zach fan during the draft process and wanted him desperately to be the pick your emotional investment goes through the roof, as we're seeing on the board.

What is concerning to me and what I think honestly is going to make or break Zach Wilson is coaching.  Before his injury, you constantly heard Zach and Lil Mikey saying that his mechanics and fundamentals were fine.  Which is odd because they are clearly a mess. In comes John Beck and you would think he's here to put extra focus on his mechanics but apparently, he's here just to help him with the mental game?  I dont get it.  Who's telling him he's mechanics are fine? Because that person is the problem and needs to be fired.  

[More Cowbell]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You got it, it doesnt bother me that a rookie looks like a rookie.

Again, how many of those uncovered passes has he missed.  Give up a number, 2 a game?  3?  

There is no point in arguing it, its an overreaction 

He should never miss any of those  that badly. He also should have stepped up, but instead he scrambled. Had he stepped up the pass rusher would have gone right by him. But this is my opinion. I know you think this is fine.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Then why is Zach starting?

Because after his big game against the Bengals White went off on a 4 INT game where he was horrible and starters dont lose their jobs because of injury.  Especially to someone who had one good game and another that was horrible

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

He should never miss any of those  that badly. He also should have stepped up, but instead he scrambled. Had he stepped up the pass rusher would have gone right by him.

You need to argue that with every NFL QB.