Why are we being so friggin impatient with Zach?

[jgb]

31 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Yeah but he is doing some things alright and the “anti-Zaxxers refuse to give it when it’s due.   
 

There is an expectation problem and that’s not on Zach.  

Do you think Jets fans will care about his hair, family wealth, beliefs if he starts playing good football?

It’s all about his play. No need to tar a huge swath of Jets fans as bigots. That’s super lazy.

[FidelioJet]

On 12/3/2021 at 7:04 AM, jgb said:

Agree. Sadly, we will likely need to trade. Can't see a legit FA QB coming here (such as Trubisky) to compete assuming there will be options with clearer paths to start.

What does Mitch Trubisky do for this team?

I wouldn't count on the Jets doing anything but rolling with ZW next year.  Whether I agree with that situation or not.  Zach fails they're out of jobs.  

Saleh and JD are all on Wilson.

If a guy like Trubisky could get them in the playoffs, maybe - but he's won't.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

What does Mitch Trubisky do for this team?

I wouldn't count on the Jets doing anything but rolling with ZW next year.  Whether I agree with that situation or not.  Zach fails they're out of jobs.  

Saleh and JD are all on Wilson.

If a guy like Trubisky could get them in the playoffs, maybe - but he's won't.

I'm not saying this in defense of JD or Saleh, nor do I think that Wilson busts, but I don't think that Wilson busting would necessarily be the end for them if the team still manages to win games in spite of him. A Cinderella story with someone like Mike White or some scrap heap QB who suddenly finds his stroke would save their jobs. I feel like it's eventually going to click for Wilson once the game slows down for him. The kid has proven that he can flick it. 

[LSJF]

4 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 

See my post above. He was not worthy of being a first round draft pick in my opinion. He’s so far behind mentally to the complexities of the NFL game. He doesn’t know what he’s looking at to begin with, regardless of how fast it’s moving in the NFL. He needs to learn the complexities of NFL defenses, as well as the complexities of NFL offenses. Once he knows those well you can throw him out there to adjust to the speed of it. Unfortunately he’s now so overwhelmed that he can’t complete a 5 yard wide open pass anymore because he’s so mind****ed. He was a guy you put on the bench and then take a look in 2023, but obviously we don’t have that luxury. He’d have been much better off in SF.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

I didn't understand throwing him right out there game one, other than copying a recent trend in the nfl... we were supposed to "lift him up" according to Saleh...

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I'm not saying this in defense of JD or Saleh, nor do I think that Wilson busts, but I don't think that Wilson busting would necessarily be the end for them if the team still manages to win games in spite of him. A Cinderella story with someone like Mike White or some scrap heap QB who suddenly finds his stroke would save their jobs. I feel like it's eventually going to click for Wilson once the game slows down for him. The kid has proven that he can flick it. 

This.

If JD and Saleh win games, they stay employed.

If JD and Saleh continue to lose games, they're going to be fired eventually.

[David Harris]

2 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I'm not saying this in defense of JD or Saleh, nor do I think that Wilson busts, but I don't think that Wilson busting would necessarily be the end for them if the team still manages to win games in spite of him. A Cinderella story with someone like Mike White or some scrap heap QB who suddenly finds his stroke would save their jobs. I feel like it's eventually going to click for Wilson once the game slows down for him. The kid has proven that he can flick it. 

He’s got the talent and the “mental horsepower” I think it’s just the experience he needs.  Tua has much improved this year, Zach has time to work this out and there’s a chance he will.

[Hal N of Provo]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

Do you think Jets fans will care about his hair, family wealth, beliefs if he starts playing good football?

It’s all about his play. No need to tar a huge swath of Jets fans as bigots. That’s super lazy.

I was running around earlier but wanted to reply and not leave it there.  

I’ve never said anything like that.   I think you and the others would love to see Zach to succeed.

I also think some posters are so down on him they have a hard time seeing any good.  It’s based on frustration over stuff we all know needs to improve.

No biggie.  

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I'm not saying this in defense of JD or Saleh, nor do I think that Wilson busts, but I don't think that Wilson busting would necessarily be the end for them if the team still manages to win games in spite of him. A Cinderella story with someone like Mike White or some scrap heap QB who suddenly finds his stroke would save their jobs. I feel like it's eventually going to click for Wilson once the game slows down for him. The kid has proven that he can flick it. 

I hear what you’re saying but benching Wilson without playoffs they’re done.   
bench Wilson and win 8 games they don’t get to draft another QB. 
 

fair or not, imo, it’s the reality. 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

I was running around earlier but wanted to reply and not leave it there.  

I’ve never said anything like that.   I think you and the others would love to see Zach to succeed.

I also think some posters are so down on him they have a hard time seeing any good.  It’s based on frustration over stuff we all know needs to improve.

No biggie.  

You know, it's been 4 busted highly-drafted QBs in a row, if you count Hack. One could argue that extreme skepticism is not only justified but logical.

If Zach wants to shut up the haters, all he has to do is perform. Simple as that. There is no bigotry, hatred of him as a person, or negative feelings about who he is in private. New York is one of the most tolerant places on earth and when it comes to sports only one thing matters: win. Darnold was the quintessential good boy, all american kid. It's like he was straight out of the 50s. Middle class upbringing (I think his dad was a firefighter). Didn't come from wealth, or any of the things that are being thrown around as the reasons people don't like Zach. There doesn't have to be a reason other than he is sucking badly right now.

There's just no need for all this IMHO. It just cheapens the whole thing and then people have to get defensive because being called a bigot is one of the dirtiest things you can throw at someone these days. It will lead to less productive discussions, not more.

[LSJF]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

You know, it's been 4 busted highly-drafted QBs in a row, if you count Hack. One could argue that extreme skepticism is not only justified but logical.

If Zach wants to shut up the haters, all he has to do is perform. Simple as that. There is no bigotry, hatred of him as a person, or negative feelings about who he is as a private person. New York likes winners. So go win. Darnold was the quintessential good boy, all american kid. Middle class upbringing (I think his dad was a firefighter). Didn't come from wealth, or any of the things that are being thrown around as the reasons people don't like Zach. There doesn't have to be a reason other than he is sucking badly right now.

Are you really counting hack? 
we had zero expectations with him…

Darnold  did not play too many games as a USC  quarterback, even Pete Carroll mentioned  that

And Sanchez had some initial  success, to the tune of two AFC championship games…

 

 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, LSJF said:

Are you really counting hack? 
we had zero expectations with him…

Darnold  did not play too many games as a USC  quarterback, even Pete Carroll mentioned  that

And Sanchez had some initial  success, to the tune of two AFC championship games…

 

 

I did leave a caveat for Hack -- which is why he was called out directly -- but when you draft a QB in the 2nd you expect more than zero appearances for a career, yes.

And it's easy to say now there were no expectations for Hack, just peruse posts from that time...

[jgb]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

What does Mitch Trubisky do for this team?

I wouldn't count on the Jets doing anything but rolling with ZW next year.  Whether I agree with that situation or not.  Zach fails they're out of jobs.  

Saleh and JD are all on Wilson.

If a guy like Trubisky could get them in the playoffs, maybe - but he's won't.

Trubisky has been to and won more playoff games than any Jets QB since Sanchez. If Darnold performed at Trubisky level, he'd still be here, and people would be counting Lombardis.

Besides, this whole "you can't win it all with him" argument is tired. Well, I'd like a good team, ok? The all-or-nothing mentality ignores that this is foremost about entertainment. At this point I'll take a competent QB. Look at the fan engagement during Fitz's first year here. The last time it was fun to be a Jets fan. That has value.

[LSJF]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

I did leave a caveat for Hack -- which is why he was called out directly -- but when you draft a QB in the 2nd you expect more than zero appearances for a career, yes.

And it's easy to say now there were no expectations for Hack, just peruse posts from that time...

I could be mistaken, but it seem like everybody in the world knew that that was a reach for hack, we thought he could be coached up if lucky

[Hex]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

What does Mitch Trubisky do for this team?

I wouldn't count on the Jets doing anything but rolling with ZW next year.  Whether I agree with that situation or not.  Zach fails they're out of jobs.  

Saleh and JD are all on Wilson.

If a guy like Trubisky could get them in the playoffs, maybe - but he's won't.

Trubisky wouldn't be a replacement for Zach, he would be a mentor

I doubt Joe Flacco is the best at that

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I hear what you’re saying but benching Wilson without playoffs they’re done.   
bench Wilson and win 8 games they don’t get to draft another QB. 
 

fair or not, imo, it’s the reality. 

We're talking about owners who thought it would be a good idea to bring in a GM AFTER the draft was completed by the outgoing GM. With Woody and Chris running this team, I don't know if anything would surprise with handling JD and Saleh. If the Johnson's fired JD, retained Saleh, and then hired a new GM in 2023, I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, LSJF said:

I could be mistaken, but it seem like everybody in the world knew that that was a reach for hack, we thought he could be coached up if lucky

Oh, there was debate. A lot of that was typical homerism, of course.

[LSJF]

16 minutes ago, jgb said:

Oh, there was debate. A lot of that was typical homerism, of course.

You are probably correct no argument there…

[Jets723]

Look I understand fans want our young QB to come in and be a star right away.  I understand everyone is desperate for that I certainly get that.  But we gotta have a tiny bit of patience.  If we are still at this point next year then I understand the hysteria but after just a handful of games after being out a free games as well we gotta cut the kid a little slack.  Making any judgment on the kid now is just silly.  

[JohnnyLV]

11 hours ago, jgb said:

Trubisky has been to and won more playoff games than any Jets QB since Sanchez. If Darnold performed at Trubisky level, he'd still be here, and people would be counting Lombardis.

Besides, this whole "you can't win it all with him" argument is tired. Well, I'd like a good team, ok? The all-or-nothing mentality ignores that this is foremost about entertainment. At this point I'll take a competent QB. Look at the fan engagement during Fitz's first year here. The last time it was fun to be a Jets fan. That has value.

Not with you. Seasons like this suck but I would rather try and build a long term winner than go for fun to watch mediocrity

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Not with you. Seasons like this suck but I would rather try and build a long term winner than go for fun to watch mediocrity

I was a young man last time we made the playoffs. You have to start there to "win it all."

I've never understood the "all or nothing" mentality. As Jets fans we should recognize that we always get the latter.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Look I understand fans want our young QB to come in and be a star right away.  I understand everyone is desperate for that I certainly get that.  But we gotta have a tiny bit of patience.  If we are still at this point next year then I understand the hysteria but after just a handful of games after being out a free games as well we gotta cut the kid a little slack.  Making any judgment on the kid now is just silly.  

I know glaciers with less patience than Jets fans. Any Jets fan who didn't have patience has moved on or tuned out.

[Barton]

The Jets, as a franchise, NEVER have a good plan to develop a young QB. Since Pennington, they have not had the right head coach to lead the development of their QB.

It's not the players (Pennington, Sanchez, Darnold & Wilson) who were the real dissapointments. It was the Jets. 

 

[Jets723]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

I know glaciers with less patience than Jets fans. Any Jets fan who didn't have patience has moved on or tuned out.

Agree to disagree 

[JohnnyLV]

12 minutes ago, jgb said:

I was a young man last time we made the playoffs. You have to start there to "win it all."

I've never understood the "all or nothing" mentality. As Jets fans we should recognize that we always get the latter.

Fair enough. A lot of people share your view.

[maury77]

I can't be patient when the exact thing I expected to happen is happening. 

I repeatedly said that I had concerns about his accuracy because a lot his completions in college were YOLO passes against overmatched CBs and that a lot of those throws would be interceptions in the NFL. So far? He's top 10 in the league in interceptions. 

I said his processing ability was overrated. So far? See above. 

I said I had concerns he would be frequently injured because of his frame and injury history. So far? He's missed 3 games. 

I said the NYC market was going to be very difficult for him coming from Provo (although one of you lunatics had the audacity to say Provo was a comparable environment to NYC). So far, he's looked overwhelmed at times. 

The final book hasn't been written on Wilson and I hope I'm wrong, but so far, this is going exactly as I expected. 

[jgb]

13 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Agree to disagree 

Be patient and you may come around to my view  

[Jets723]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Be patient and you may come around to my view  

Doubtful 

[jgb]

51 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Fair enough. A lot of people share your view.

All good brother. I also understand the value of knowing we wouldn’t have won it all anyway to help ease the pain of the last ten years.

[Hal N of Provo]

13 hours ago, jgb said:

You know, it's been 4 busted highly-drafted QBs in a row, if you count Hack. One could argue that extreme skepticism is not only justified but logical.

If Zach wants to shut up the haters, all he has to do is perform. Simple as that. There is no bigotry, hatred of him as a person, or negative feelings about who he is in private. New York is one of the most tolerant places on earth and when it comes to sports only one thing matters: win. Darnold was the quintessential good boy, all american kid. It's like he was straight out of the 50s. Middle class upbringing (I think his dad was a firefighter). Didn't come from wealth, or any of the things that are being thrown around as the reasons people don't like Zach. There doesn't have to be a reason other than he is sucking badly right now.

There's just no need for all this IMHO. It just cheapens the whole thing and then people have to get defensive because being called a bigot is one of the dirtiest things you can throw at someone these days. It will lead to less productive discussions, not more.

What are you going on about?  They banned the poster who said that it was bigotry.  I already said I don’t think that’s the case.  

[jgb]

28 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

What are you going on about?  They banned the poster who said that it was bigotry.  I already said I don’t think that’s the case.  

Maybe I’m using the term overbroadly. If you weren’t suggesting people are critical of Zach for his family’s wealth or his looks or some other non-football reason, I apologize.

[Jet Nut]

On 12/1/2021 at 10:11 AM, Flea Flicking Frank said:

for him to be anything other than atrocious would be the biggest outlier known to humanity

An outlier comment thats untrue.

Its much, much, much rarer for a QB to start off his career as a star rookie to a All Pro/All Star type QB than to go from a bottom of the league type as a rookie to a All Pro/All Star type QB.  

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Barton said:

The Jets, as a franchise, NEVER have a good plan to develop a young QB. Since Pennington, they have not had the right head coach to lead the development of their QB.

It's not the players (Pennington, Sanchez, Darnold & Wilson) who were the real dissapointments. It was the Jets. 

 

So if Wilson doesnt develop its because Chad wasnt developed how exactly?  Because Rex/Tanny didnt develop Sanchez?  Are any of those who were around for either of those 2 still developing QBs?

Who did the Chiefs develop before Mahomes?  The Broncos before Elway and who since?   

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

An outlier comment thats untrue.

Its much, much, much rarer for a QB to start off his career as a star rookie to a All Pro/All Star type QB than to go from a bottom of the league type as a rookie to a All Pro/All Star type QB.  

Yeah but 99% aren't literally the worst passer in the league. And that's with giving you Josh Allen who wasn't worst but 2nd worst in 2018, sandwiched between Darnold and Rosen.

[Jet Nut]

Just now, jgb said:

Yeah but 99% aren't literally the worst passer in the league. And that's with giving you Josh Allen who wasn't worst by 2nd worst in 2018.

Many were.  Add in hes played a handful of games, the season in the first half of the season.  

Elways was horrid, dont know if he was worst but was benched.  Manning struggled.  Ben was horrid. I could care about worst titles.  Its too dependent on the rest of the league.  I'm saying bottom third is enough.  Almost all rookie QBs struggle mightily because its an adjustment from college and because they've usually been drafted by crappy teams.  

No matter what the whole outlier thing doesnt quite fit. 

[Barton]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So if Wilson doesnt develop its because Chad wasnt developed how exactly?  Because Rex/Tanny didnt develop Sanchez?  Are any of those who were around for either of those 2 still developing QBs?

Who did the Chiefs develop before Mahomes?  The Broncos before Elway and who since?   

 

......... The Jets never have a real head coach who knows how to develop a QB. So it doesnt matter who the QB is.

Al Groh, Herm, Rex, Mangini, Bowles, Gase, Saleh. None of these guys ever led a team with a young QB and properly developed him. And none of them lasted in the NFL for very long as head coaches. 

Look at what Belichick and his OC are doing with Mac Jones. They brought him along slowly, kept his throws simple, helped him build his confidence and then once he got his sea legs, they let the offense open up a bit more, asked him to do more etc. Look at Andy Reid with Mahomes. He sat for nearly a year and they coached him up. 

The Jets the last 20 years? Throw the young QB into the fire. Sink or swim. 

All these QBs for the Jets the last 20 years were SET UP TO FAIL by the sink or swim mentality.