Why are we being so friggin impatient with Zach?

[bla bla bla]

31 minutes ago, jgb said:

Kind of like Zach putting up 145 yards and not throwing a TD against the Texans 31st ranked defense?

Psht shows how much you know...Jets are 32nd, clearly worse and makes sense why Zach didn't have as many yards!

[Joe W. Namath]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

So basically, do what Minshew did today. Not flashy but not rattled. Minshew isn't a world beater but he just looks in command out there. And considering how much we attributed to "rust" with Wilson against the Texans, Minshew hasn't played in going on a year...

Minshew is in his 3rd year and has 3 times as many nfl starts as zach wilson. Of course hes going to look in command compared to wilson.  Jet fans have lost their minds.  There is 0 football knowledge when it comes to jet fans.  Its insane.

[DetroitRed]

4 hours ago, ZachEY said:

Zach Wilson's INT% is #1 in the league by an enormous margin.  He throws a pick on 4.9% of his passes.  Fields is #2 with 4.0.  The median is 2.3%.  For a little more context, there has only been one instance of a player having a higher INT% in the past 10 years, and that's actually Peyton Manning in Denver in his final NFL season.

You should check out Peyton’s rookie season and learn something 

[Prodigal Syndicate]

2 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

You should check out Peyton’s rookie season and learn something 

Peyton's rookie season is irrelevant to today's NFL. Completely different game.

People need to stop bringing it up. 

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Minshew is in his 3rd year and has 3 times as many nfl starts as zach wilson. Of course hes going to look in command compared to wilson.  Jet fans have lost their minds.  There is 0 football knowledge when it comes to jet fans.  Its insane.

Gotcha! I love how Minshew “sucks” when it’s convenient but also is a super human impervious to rust after a 1 year layoff when it’s convenient. If the latter is true, Minshew is one of the best QBs of all time. While I think you’re a little too optimistic about Minshew, I do agree that Zach a 2nd overall does not compare very favorably to a 6th rounder. I like your plan that JD should’ve just traded for the superior Minshew. 

Exceedingly easy to twist a Wilsonian into a knot of your choosing.

[Irish Jet]

4 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Minshew is in his 3rd year and has 3 times as many nfl starts as zach wilson. Of course hes going to look in command compared to wilson.  Jet fans have lost their minds.  There is 0 football knowledge when it comes to jet fans.  Its insane.

Quote

Minshew as a rookie in 2019 completed 61 percent of his passes with 21 touchdowns, six interceptions, a 91.2 passer rating and 233 yards per game.

Let's pull up Zach's stats real quick. 

[Irish Jet]

8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

People should be FAR more upset at the coaching and awful awful awful defense and special teams.

Wilson 2 tds and 1 int, 226 yards

Lawrence 145 yards

kyler murray 123 yards

Wentz 158

taylor/mills 94

glennon 187

the boards darling heineke 196 2tds and 1 int

The difference? These teams play defense, get turnovers and have more help.

Our QB lead the team to 3 tds early in the game and special teams and then the defense blew it as usual. 

Then the pressure is on the O to do everything and they fail.

Is Wilson great?  Not so far for a hot shot rookie but others have been worse and the ills of the jets Qb is well down the list right now.

 

The excuses get more pathetic every day.

Wentz and Murray threw for so few yards because they built a huge lead and didn't need to throw. Murray was playing in a windy, rainy Chicago. 

The other QB's are actual trash. 

Wilson couldn't sustain a drive to save his life in the second half. He was a huge part of why the defence was getting dominated. Football is more situational than that - He had three pretty good drives where he still got lucky with dropped picks and would miss simple passes - After that they made adjustments and he was brutally exposed. Exactly what that trash Tyrod Taylor did last week against us and boy was this place full of praise for him. 

The standards are so hilariously low here that we'd just praise anything at this point. The reality is he's so far away from being even competent at this level and everyone is trying to convince themselves otherwise. 

[jgb]

4 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Psht shows how much you know...Jets are 32nd, clearly worse and makes sense why Zach didn't have as many yards!

That must be it!

13 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Let's pull up Zach's stats real quick. 

Incoming: Jax had better weaponz in 3…2…1…

[nyjunc]

Zach looked good yesterday, not perfect but good.  The problem was the D allowing Philly to control the ball all game.  It was hard for the O to get into a flow in that second half because of it.  The O doesn't need major additions this offseason.  Tinker with the OL and they should be take good next year. The offseason focus needs to be defensively.

We're on the right track.

[Scott Dierking]

Baby steps. Which it is for this kid.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Baby steps. Which it is for this kid.

I'll take it. Was very happy to see. That first half was fun to watch. Zach hanging in there and answering score for score. Defense is a disaster but it was good to see Zach respond. I wonder how much the kicking carousel has sapped the team of some fight.

[ZachEY]

6 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

You should check out Peyton’s rookie season and learn something 

Maybe you could check out one of the hundreds of QBs who have bad rookie years and then don’t enter the greatest of all time conversation.

But, if you feel strongly that Peyton Manning is an apt comparison, are you open to wagering?  I’m good at any stakes.

[UntouchableCrew]

Zach played pretty well overall yesterday. We scored three touchdowns on our first three possessions -- by far his best first half performance. If the defense didn't turn in a laughable, pathetic, gutless performance we would have had a solid chance to win but sadly we didn't have a ton of possessions after that and they were once every 45 minutes because the defense couldn't get off the field...

That said, I maintain the most concerning issue with Zach continued to rear it's head -- accuracy/ball placement.

He's just not an accurate thrower of the football.

The interception? Airmailed it. How many passes were thrown too high yesterday? A ton. How many were behind? How many times did he bullet slants with no touch?

I just don't see it with him. You can see flashes of arm talent but he's so incredibly inconsistent in simple stuff it's really scary for the future of this team.

[jgb]

13 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Maybe you could check out one of the hundreds of QBs who have bad rookie years and then don’t enter the greatest of all time conversation.

But, if you feel strongly that Peyton Manning is an apt comparison, are you open to wagering?  I’m good at any stakes.

Odds are not intuitive. Humanity has evolved to avoid situations of great potential loss -- if there is even a small chance there is a bear in the cave, sleep in the rain. It's in our hardwiring. I'm reminded at work when I -- perhaps foolishly -- gave my boss 3:1 odds of an optimal outcome. The optimal happened. Later he said "so you were wrong." Smh.

[DetroitRed]

4 hours ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Peyton's rookie season is irrelevant to today's NFL. Completely different game.

People need to stop bringing it up. 

No

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

I'll take it. Was very happy to see. That first half was fun to watch. Zach hanging in there and answering score for score. Defense is a disaster but it was good to see Zach respond. I wonder how much the kicking carousel has sapped the team of some fight.

I still have no idea what Wilson will be. The kid is still awed by the spectacle of it all.  For him to mentally fit 60 minutes of football in his back pocket right now is difficult. This is not Utah. He gave us one decent half. Not perfect, but decent. Then it came tumbling down again in the second half. It snowballs  with this kid.

Some are able to walk right in and act like they have been in the NFL their whole life. He is not that guy. He has to earn his spot at the cool kids table. Some never earn it.

There are skills there that not every qb has. Someone better speed up the jugs gun at Florham because that ball comes out. 

From a baseball perspective, he reminds me a lot of a Nolan Ryan at a young age with the Mets. Ryan just oozed abilities, but had the Texas "aw, shucks" persona about him when he was young and you just wondered if he ever was going to fit. Turns out that "aw, shucks" was just a facade and he had a fire inside him. 

We will see. But, baby steps.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I still have no idea what Wilson will be. The kid is still awed by the spectacle of it all.  For him to mentally fit 60 minutes of football in his back pocket right now is difficult. This is not Utah. He gave us one decent half. Not perfect, but decent. Then it came tumbling down again in the second half. It snowballs  with this kid.

Some are able to walk right in and act like they have been in the NFL their whole life. He is not that guy. He has to earn his spot at the cool kids table. Some never earn it.

There are skills there that not every qb has. Someone better speed up the jugs gun at Florham because that ball comes out. 

From a baseball perspective, he reminds me a lot of a Nolan Ryan at a young age with the Mets. Ryan just oozed abilities, but had the Texas "aw, shucks" persona about him when he was young and you just wondered if he ever was going to fit. Turns out that "aw, shucks" was just a facade and he had a fire inside him. 

We will see. But, baby steps.

I also don't know what Zach will be. Unfortunately, that's interpreted as "You hate him and actually want him to fail to be right on a messageboard even at the expense of the Jets who you spend so much time thinking/talking about." ?‍♂️

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, jgb said:

I also don't know what Zach will be. Unfortunately, that's interpreted as "You hate him and actually want him to fail to be right on a messageboard even at the expense of the Jets who you spend so much time thinking/talking about." ?‍♂️

Hey, I get it. We are bruised, battered and emotionally wrecked. This franchise can do that to you. It would be a lot easier if we had come off a string of playoff teams, and we were fitting in a new rookie and had patience. That is not our fault. We are that battered spouse that just continues to come home every night saying, it will be better. Sometimes it just does not get better and you have to leave. 

Can't blame anyone for that.

[kdels62]

2 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

The excuses get more pathetic every day.

Wentz and Murray threw for so few yards because they built a huge lead and didn't need to throw. Murray was playing in a windy, rainy Chicago. 

The other QB's are actual trash. 

Wilson couldn't sustain a drive to save his life in the second half. He was a huge part of why the defence was getting dominated. Football is more situational than that - He had three pretty good drives where he still got lucky with dropped picks and would miss simple passes - After that they made adjustments and he was brutally exposed. Exactly what that trash Tyrod Taylor did last week against us and boy was this place full of praise for him. 

The standards are so hilariously low here that we'd just praise anything at this point. The reality is he's so far away from being even competent at this level and everyone is trying to convince themselves otherwise. 

What? The Jets had two 3 and outs all game. The defense gave up two 6+ minute drives in the 3rd quarter. If the defense gets 1 stop the game changes. There was no margin for error yesterday for Zach Wilson. 

[Scott Dierking]

2 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

The excuses get more pathetic every day.

Wentz and Murray threw for so few yards because they built a huge lead and didn't need to throw. Murray was playing in a windy, rainy Chicago. 

The other QB's are actual trash. 

Wilson couldn't sustain a drive to save his life in the second half. He was a huge part of why the defence was getting dominated. Football is more situational than that - He had three pretty good drives where he still got lucky with dropped picks and would miss simple passes - After that they made adjustments and he was brutally exposed. Exactly what that trash Tyrod Taylor did last week against us and boy was this place full of praise for him. 

The standards are so hilariously low here that we'd just praise anything at this point. The reality is he's so far away from being even competent at this level and everyone is trying to convince themselves otherwise. 

The QB(Lawrence) that practically everyone was creaming over just one year ago, is going through the same problems. 

Not everyone evolves at the same pace. Just the way it is. Doesn't make you wrong, it is just that.

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

The excuses get more pathetic every day.

Wentz and Murray threw for so few yards because they built a huge lead and didn't need to throw. Murray was playing in a windy, rainy Chicago. 

The other QB's are actual trash. 

Not only is Wilson trash, but you are already sure that Lawrence is trash as well, after what . . . 11 games into their rookie seasons? 

You don’t see why this is insane?

[Jimmy 2 Times]

24 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

What? The Jets had two 3 and outs all game. The defense gave up two 6+ minute drives in the 3rd quarter. If the defense gets 1 stop the game changes. There was no margin for error yesterday for Zach Wilson. 

With 5+ drops!

The kid wasn’t perfect, but these guys have got to start catching the ball.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Jimmy 2 Times said:

With 5+ drops!

The kid wasn’t perfect, but these guys have got to start catching the ball.

Ball placement can certainly be better. Improved from just a week ago. I never watched this kid in college, but did he ever have "touch"?  That ball just zips out of his hand.

If he can ever put together the mental part, and hone his accuracy, he is going to fit some balls that some other QBs can only dream about.

[Barry McCockinner]

27 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Not only is Wilson trash, but you are already sure that Lawrence is trash as well, after what . . . 11 games into their rookie seasons? 

You don’t see why this is insane?

It's funny how quickly the mindset on rookie QB's changed. It used to be rookie QBs almost never started. Everyone understood that it was necessary for rookie QBs to develop before starting. I think it was Russell Wilson who really changed the game. He came in and looked great right out of the gate. 

I know it makes sense from a cap perspective to get the rookie QB in immediately but expectations are wild, especially for rookies going into a garbage situation.

Wilson has looked bad this season but really showed some good improvement yesterday. Hopefully he can start stacking that and show he's the guy.

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, Coffee Is Great said:

He had one possession.

The Eagles opened with a long drive, the Jets went three-and-out, the Eagles followed with another long drive that stretched into the fourth. Somehow, in your mind, that translates to being Zach's fault?

Some dont actually watch the games apparently from the comments above.  They see Wilson struggling against a pass rush, imagine its due to bad footwork and complain they didnt score and blame Wilson.  Youre dead right.  Eagles took the KO for a long drive, Jets went 3 and out with the Davis drop screwing that drive up and then went on another reality long drive.  

Zach should have made a stop 

[jgb]

27 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Not only is Wilson trash, but you are already sure that Lawrence is trash as well, after what . . . 11 games into their rookie seasons? 

You don’t see why this is insane?

If you're going to make an early decision on a QB, the odds favor a negative one.

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Ball placement can certainly be better. Improved from just a week ago. I never watched this kid in college, but did he ever have "touch"?  That ball just zips out of his hand.

If he can ever put together the mental part, and hone his accuracy, he is going to fit some balls that some other QBs can only dream about.

He did throw a really pretty touch pass to Davis - of course David badly dropped it..

But it was a very nice throw.  That ability is there. Would love to see more of it.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

He did throw a really pretty touch pass to Davis - of course David badly dropped it..

But it was a very nice throw.  That ability is there. Would love to see more of it.

He's a #2 overall pick. Being able to make some nice throws is literally the bare minimum standard. I'm not saying it wasn't nice to see -- it was -- but this alone is not really a cause for great optimism.

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It's funny how quickly the mindset on rookie QB's changed. It used to be rookie QBs almost never started. Everyone understood that it was necessary for rookie QBs to develop before starting. I think it was Russell Wilson who really changed the game. He came in and looked great right out of the gate. 

I know it makes sense from a cap perspective to get the rookie QB in immediately but expectations are wild, especially for rookies going into a garbage situation.

Wilson has looked bad this season but really showed some good improvement yesterday. Hopefully he can start stacking that and show he's the guy.

The bolded is what far too many are missing.  I'm not making excuses for Wilson, not at all...

But situations matter.  When you walk into a mature team, with all the pieces already in place you can expect the QB to look better.  A lot of teams have figured this out.  The Jets clearly did not take this approach and started a rookie QB with a. rookie HC, rookie OC and the youngest starting roster in the NFL.

i.e. R. Wilson walked into the best running game and defense in the NFL.  Hell, Marc Sanchez looked competent under those circumstances.

Again, not excuses for him - but situations absolutely matter.

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

He's a #2 overall pick. Being able to make some nice throws is literally the bare minimum standard. I'm not saying it wasn't nice to see -- it was -- but this alone is not really a cause for great optimism.

I agree, but my response was to a specific question that was posed.  About his ability as a touch passer.  He did it in college and made a very pretty touch pass yesterday.

I was answering what he asked.  The skill-set is there - he does need to execute on it more often.

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

The bolded is what far too many are missing.  I'm not making excuses for Wilson, not at all...

But situations matter.  When you walk into a mature team, with all the pieces already in place you can expect the QB to look better.  A lot of teams have figured this out.  The Jets clearly did not take this approach and started a rookie QB with a. rookie HC, rookie OC and the youngest starting roster in the NFL.

i.e. R. Wilson walked into the best running game and defense in the NFL.  Hell, Marc Sanchez looked competent under those circumstances.

Again, not excuses for him - but situations absolutely matter.

I would have loved to see Douglas force some kind of senior level coach on this staff with some input making decisions. They have just seemed to start out a band with all rookies and are babes in the woods.

[rtnelson]

3 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

The excuses get more pathetic every day.

Wentz and Murray threw for so few yards because they built a huge lead and didn't need to throw. Murray was playing in a windy, rainy Chicago. 

The other QB's are actual trash. 

Wilson couldn't sustain a drive to save his life in the second half. He was a huge part of why the defence was getting dominated. Football is more situational than that - He had three pretty good drives where he still got lucky with dropped picks and would miss simple passes - After that they made adjustments and he was brutally exposed. Exactly what that trash Tyrod Taylor did last week against us and boy was this place full of praise for him. 

The standards are so hilariously low here that we'd just praise anything at this point. The reality is he's so far away from being even competent at this level and everyone is trying to convince themselves otherwise. 

Come on man... Now when he plays well and leads three straight TD drives to open the game he's getting lucky?

He was exposed in the second half?

He's a young kid and played pretty well today.  Yes, they had a three and out in their opening drive in the second half, but at some point you have to expect the defense to do SOMETHING to get the ball back and stop the other team from scoring.

The Eagles didn't punt until the game was over.

I find that there's a loud group of negative people who have "hilariously high" standards of a rookie QB.  Nobody should be expecting ZW to win a shootout at this stage in his career.  Being happy to see improvement is not low standards.  It's par for the course of having a rookie QB starting in the NFL.

If you can watch that game, and come away with a take that Zach was the key to this loss, your standards for defensive play is the hilarious take here.

Zach didn't play perfect, but he showed improvement.  We've been saying this all year, we just want to see improvement in him and in general the young guys on this team.  He finally breaks through from looking absolutely terrible and looks like a competent QB and you're still ripping him.  It's not going to happen overnight.  

Your standards for a 22 year old rookie still in single digit starts are ridiculously high IMO.  While the season stats may not indicate it, he's looked better than all other rookie QB's except Mac Jones, and we all know the reason behind that.

Once the kid gets more comfortable and we see a complete game from him, we're quickly going to see a change of tune here.

 

[slimjasi]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

If you're going to make an early decision on a QB, the odds favor a negative one.

Right, but doesn’t make it prudent to label a QB trash in the middle of his rookie season. Most rookie QBs struggle to varying degrees, so it would seem that making too much of rookie struggles doesn’t make much sense.

[Barry McCockinner]

Holding the ball for the career-low is the best stat there IMO. That's where the kid needs to improve most is just seeing, believing and dealing quickly and efficiently. That was what looked most improved yesterday. Still a long way to go but just getting that right will go a long way.

[rtnelson]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

Gotcha! I love how Minshew “sucks” when it’s convenient but also is a super human impervious to rust after a 1 year layoff when it’s convenient. If the latter is true, Minshew is one of the best QBs of all time. While I think you’re a little too optimistic about Minshew, I do agree that Zach a 2nd overall does not compare very favorably to a 6th rounder. I like your plan that JD should’ve just traded for the superior Minshew. 

Exceedingly easy to twist a Wilsonian into a knot of your choosing.

Minshew is a serviceable QB.  Having ties to CFB out west, I watched a lot of his games at WSU and the dude is a gamer.

JD should have traded for anyone, or played White or Johnson to start the year once it was clear that our OL couldn't pick up a stunt.  ZW was running for his life in his first 4 starts and it clearly got to him.  As it would almost anyone.  There are very very few QB's in the NFL that could run the "phonebooth" offense with pressure under 2 seconds almost every drop back without developing some seriously bad habits.

I personally think having a sacrificial lamb until the OL was better suited to allow your rookie to actually develop would have been better.

Minshew had all day to throw against our weak secondary.  Switch defenses and the Zach wins this one going away.