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Why are we being so friggin impatient with Zach?


LSJF

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2 minutes ago, Barton said:

Lets hope so. 5 yard passes shouldnt be an issue. He's also not throwing the most catchable balls either/ 

He takes ownership of that(at the press conference, he's gotta take something off the fastball), he's got talent, I guess we will know sometime by the end of this season or by halloween of next year if he gets it at all

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1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

Not sure, but there does seem to be a higher level of just innate bias against Zach than other QBs. Maybe because right now it has a similar feel to Darnold. There are many here who would already give up on him.

Sam seemed clueless, Zach is raw, the game is too fast right now, but he seems bright and athletic giving me hope

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29 minutes ago, LSJF said:

Why are we being so friggin impatient with Zach?

Do you really feel he has no shot to get acclimated to the pro game?

When he was drafted it was known that it took him time to adjust at every level he has played. However when he adjusted he was number two pick worthy...

He's got skills, arm strength, mobility, improvisational ability, moxie...He's kinda skinny, I hope that injuries don't become a thing...if so then it's a bust...

the game is way fast for him now, but this is what experience is about... especially in the same way he had to grow in college, he will have to master the pro game, he's a game smart dude with winning play instincts, he is green right now, deal with it... the weopanz are good enough for plays to happen, I think we will see improvement... He's forcing passes, throwing to hard, trying to do do much...it was smart of Lafleur to do runs, nothing wrong with running the ball the way we did...He will emerge maybe not  today, but which QB outside of Mac and Herbert have already...

I know we have PSTD over Darnold, I agree, but honestly he seemed super nice, but low football IQ, only with a team like N England could Sam seem competent... 

When Zach  he's  gets his sh*te together, he will be an exciting QB, he's the same Zach we loved when he was being compared to maholmes and buddying it up with Aaron Rogers... Even the media fell in love with him, like Trevor Lawrence, Fields, etc, they are learning nobody but Mac is doing great...

The line is getting better, and if our LT comes back he will have just enuff time for him to make decisions... Did you see his improv play in the Tennessee game, when he was rookie of the week...

I mean yeah he's gotta lotta ways to go, but I still think he has it, and if he doesn't we will know soon enough... He is GREEN, and players who are green and have talent are  raw, he's not polished but not hopeless at least give him til the middle of next year to see if he is catching on...

The reason is everyone, Zach, Saleh, JD pretended the fan base with Zach Wilson NFL ready from day 1.  We got the brilliant interviews where he shmozed the NY media, the TC drivel of how good he looked, etc., etc., etc.  Now that we know we were sold absolute BS by the organization were in a wait and see if he doesn't suck mode by actually proving it. 

Had Zach been presented as a guy who needed a year to sit behind a veteran and be developed we would have bitched but ultimately nobody would have actually had results to complain about.   Zach was sold as ready.  He's dog sh*t that your neighbor left on your front yard.  When he's playing like he was presented all will be right in Jetsville. 

Nobody is really giving up on him.  You can bet JD and Saleh aren't because both of their asses are on the line if they do.  

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10 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

Wilson is 2-1 in his last four starts. He has 3 picks over that span, one a Davis slip (vs Ten) and the unlucky play yesterday which we've covered. 

He had a great game against Ten. He pulled us within 3 with 7 mins to go vs. ATL. He was sharp at the start vs. NE. 

This was his first game back after missing 5 weeks, with a bum knee, without his #1 WR and #1 RB, on the road, vs a GOOD pass defense. 

Does he have some seriously concerning issues to work through? No doubt. But there are positives, and he has barely played. The off the charts raw talent and work ethic is there, unlike some high drafted QBs in our past. 

I posted this in another thread, but for everyone saying how unfathomable it is for a QB to go 24 for 145 in 2021, please see other performances from yesterday. 

 

Burrow 24 for 190

Goff 25 for 175

Taylor 26 for 158

Hurts 31 for 129

Jones 29 for 202

Newton 21 for 92

Tannehill 21 for 93

Ryan 29 for 190

Lawrence 42 for 228 

Bridgewater 18 for 129

Jackson 32 for 165

When your team runs about 4.5 yards per carry and gets around 150 yards on the ground the QB generally throws for between 150-200 yards at best and most scores are on the ground. I am starting to think most people who watch and comment on these games whether it be fans and or media just don't understand the game. It's one of those things where maybe those people shouldn't think since they are not used to it.

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Just now, Biggs said:

The reason is everyone, Zach, Saleh, JD pretended the fan base with Zach Wilson NFL ready from day 1.  We got the brilliant interviews where he shmozed the NY media, the TC drivel of how good he looked, etc., etc., etc.  Now that we know we were sold absolute BS by the organization were in a wait and see if he doesn't suck mode by actually proving it. 

Had Zach been presented as a guy who needed a year to sit behind a veteran and be developed we would have bitched but ultimately nobody would have actually had results to complain about.   Zach was sold as ready.  He's dog sh*t that your neighbor left on your front yard.  When he's playing like he was presented all will be right in Jetsville. 

Nobody is really giving up on him.  You can bet JD and Saleh aren't because both of their asses are on the line if they do.  

I remember when Saleh told Zach, that you aren't going to lift us up, we are going to lift u up...I hope that wasn't just lip service... so far it was, although, Lafleur finally leaned on the running game, instead of making Zach throw like 50 times

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Giving up on a QB after half a season is crazy. This is the effect of a culture of immediacy and fans desperate to stake out a forceful opinion on every subject and then march around talking about how right they were because that's what all sports media has taught us must be the conversation. 

I said this in a different thread but Wilson is being asked to operate completely different with the Jets than he did in BYU. They aren't letting him throw long bombs and hope for the best or wait for plays to break down to find open receivers. They want to teach him to make plays like other QBs which makes a lot of sense. Of course he's going to struggle and it's going to take take to break habits and form new ones. If you don't do that we risk watching one good year of heroball followed by an offseason of defensive coordinators learning how to break down his game and then he becomes invisible until they cut him and start over. Maybe Wilson doesn't have what it takes but his performance has to be placed in context of what he's being asked to do. 

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Buyers remorse. Every team has it with their fans. This year it is "hey look what Mac Jones is doing" and wanting the same from Wilson.

Last year for the fins was "hey look a Herbert"...Tua sucks.

Wilson has all the tools, hopefully he can keep his head together thru the rookie struggles.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, LSJF said:

I guess I meant the eighteen current threads on bashing, replacing Zach etc...on JN I mean if you would like to create a Zach sucks thread, have at it...it's just annoying

Learn to skip over threads you are not interested in. I have yet to open the Russell Wilson thread because I know this has no chan e at happening so why read it. If I see a thread that says Zach this or that though, I do read it because he is our QB. 

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8 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

In terms of fan sentiment, if Wilson never got injured, we'd have a million threads blaming the system, the OC, the OL, the receivers, or some combination of everything. Watching 3 backup QBs look way better operating the system than the #2 overall pick just has made it abundantly obvious that he has a lot of flaws to work through and that he was butchering the system as it was meant to be played. I think he can still do it, but it's by no means a guarantee. He has a lot of working through his issues to do.

This might be a GREAT year for us to draft another QB high, just like Arizona did.  It cold push Zach.  If he wins out, great.  If he doesn't, someone would be willing to give up a #1 for him.  If someone was willing to give up a #1 on Josh Rosen, someone will give a number one for Zach.  Then again, this QB crop seams to be disappointing, after discussions on how well it was probably going to be.

 

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2 minutes ago, LSJF said:

Sam seemed clueless, Zach is raw, the game is too fast right now, but he seems bright and athletic giving me hope

Yes I agree. People are question his football intelligence but that is not the issue with Zach. He actually needs to simplify things for himself. No one wants to admit it but for some reason LaFleur went back to the "run run pass" concept yesterday and that is not the way to handle Zach or any young QB.

Here is what I would do with Zach. I would go no huddle, sometimes 2 min sometimes just no huddle and just get Zach into rhythm and read and react.

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13 minutes ago, the Claw said:

I really want Zach to end up being great. We’re all overdue for it. To answer your question, I think it can be summed a bit by PTSD. The team takes QBs in the draft every few years and they never amount to anything. Sanchez, Clemens, Smith, Hack, Darnold, etc all flamed out and they were all high picks. They pass on stars and they pass on projects who become stars. We, as fans, see guys like Herbert and Burrows put up huge numbers in their first season and seem to just fit right in. Not the Jets, though. They draft Darnold who no one thought they would get but most of us wanted. We then watched as he crashed and burned. Then three years later they take the kid from BYU who rocketed ip the board because he was arguably the best true qb in the draft beside Lawrence. They weren’t going to miss again. We were shown video after video, interview after interview about this kid’s got all the makings of a star. We hear reports out of camp that he’s an unreal talent that just lights the field up. T hen comes the regular season, and Wilson looks like he’s never seen a football in his whole life (exaggeration obviously). 
 

The Jets have a history of raising hopes and not just dashing them, but beating them so viciously that some of us literally can’t set ourselves up for more disappointment. 
 

I guess, just for once, we want to see a new player come in and just take the league by its balls. Wilson, just happens to be yet another in a long line of disappointments. He may turn out to be great, he may switch the light on halfway through next year and light it up. But this is the Jets. It doesn’t happen like that for us.  
 

its not our fault.

IDK, Herbert is so great yet against Denver yesterday he looked God awful. Why does he get a pass for his 2nd year when he has a better team around him than Zack after 8 starts?. 

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It is a symptom of the modern world we live in, peoples attention spans are narrowing in general. Many people are dis-satisfied with their lot in life, they crave instant gratification and immediate results. Everything is available at the touch of a button now, entertainment when and how you want it, online shopping options to fill that empty void in your life. People don't have the time or the patience anymore to give a 22 year old more than 6 games to prove himself. 

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39 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Nice post. Nice thread. May I ask nicely for people to not crap on this one like every other thread on this board? Plenty of threads to repeat “ Zach sucks” on this board. Let’s try and not in this one. Thanks In advance for your cooperation in this matter. 

Zach Sucks. 

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Because we are fresh off of The Great Darnold Bust Era.

Because Wilson hasn’t looked good enough to solidify himself as a FQB…or a regular starter for that matter.

Because a lot of fans wanted to trade down to begin with and want to be right.

Because a lot of fans really wanted Wilson and are scared to be wrong.

BUT!

He’s only player in 6 games.

He should have sat for at least 1/2 a season before starting and brought along slowly.

We’re committed for at least another year or two so buckle up.

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8 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

So, not sure why all the division among fans. Two things can be simultaneously true 

1) No one is advocating cutting Zach or writing him totally off

2) But also acknowledging Zach has been really bad while he has been on the field. 

I see posters who want to act like Zach is fine, denying reality, and other over dramatic folks comparing him to Hackneberg

It's somewhere in between. 

Awesome post. I've found that in most cases in anything, the truth is almost always somewhere in between. That's why outliers don't really make good arguments in either way. 

Zach isn't going to be Justin Herbert or Dak Prescott his rookie year, but he also isn't going to be Josh Rosen or Hackenberg. Problem is sometimes it's hard to find examples that actually fit because of the vastness of the somewhere in between.

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4 minutes ago, LSJF said:

I remember when Saleh told Zach, that you aren't going to lift us up, we are going to lift u up...I hope that wasn't just lip service... so far it was, although, Lafleur finally leaned on the running game, instead of making Zach throw like 50 times

Saleh has been blowind smoke up our collective asses since he was hired.  I like the guy and hope he starts working his ass off to turn this team around.   He and Douglas have a big job.  Pretending that they have a plan or that a monkey could run the D, or we will lift you isn't going to cut it.  He's got to get into the weeds.  He's got to outscheme his opponents every week.  He needs a game plan every week that takes out the key guys on the other side and gives his key guys a chance for game changing plays.  He needs guys to be accountable and execute.  He needs to be flexible and he needs to deal with 53 guys with different agenda's and really get how to push their buttons.  "We will lift you" is a hallmark card.  

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7 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

He had these accuracy and ball placement issues in college.  It was there to see, most people were blinded by the off-platform stuff and neglected to acknowledge the deficiencies.  

Is that true?  Wasn't his completion percentage like 70% his last year?

Because the accuracy / ball placement issues are my biggest concern.  In particular, it seems to be getting worse, not better.  Off the top of my head, I feel like he had one bad short throw his first few weeks, then he was starting to have like 1 a week, and on Sunday there were like 3 or 4.

Hopefully, it's just rust / the knee.  But I guess we'll find out.

(And FTR, I 100% think he should get all of this year, as well as at least the beginning of next year.)

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5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Learn to skip over threads you are not interested in. I have yet to open the Russell Wilson thread because I know this has no chan e at happening so why read it. If I see a thread that says Zach this or that though, I do read it because he is our QB. 

I mean after the NE game, I was like Zach sucks, injured, throwing picks, time will tell....If he stays healthy will have an answer in year two around Halloween...

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16 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

In terms of fan sentiment, if Wilson never got injured, we'd have a million threads blaming the system, the OC, the OL, the receivers, or some combination of everything. Watching 3 backup QBs look way better operating the system than the #2 overall pick just has made it abundantly obvious that he has a lot of flaws to work through and that he was butchering the system as it was meant to be played. I think he can still do it, but it's by no means a guarantee. He has a lot of working through his issues to do.

*Zach gets sacked, gets nearly intercepted on a short route and over throws Moore on a screen for a 3 and out

”LAFLUER IS A FRAUD AND MUST BE FIRED.”

Meanwhile our offense had the most ypg for 4 weeks in a row without Zach and the holy trinity of back-up QBs in White, Johnson and Flacco. We are all saying how good Moore is now, but what were we saying 4-5 weeks in with Zach at the helm?  He was a “non-factor.”

Besides, it was all Ty Johnson’s fault.

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6 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

This might be a GREAT year for us to draft another QB high, just like Arizona did.  It cold push Zach.  If he wins out, great.  If he doesn't, someone would be willing to give up a #1 for him.  If someone was willing to give up a #1 on Josh Rosen, someone will give a number one for Zach.  Then again, this QB crop seams to be disappointing, after discussions on how well it was probably going to be.

 

If there was a stud, then you gotta do it, I feel that way about a left tackle, geez  I hope Bechton stays on the field, but....

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16 hours ago, LSJF said:

Why are we being so friggin impatient with Zach?

Do you really feel he has no shot to get acclimated to the pro game?

When he was drafted it was known that it took him time to adjust at every level he has played. However when he adjusted he was number two pick worthy...

He's got skills, arm strength, mobility, improvisational ability, moxie...He's kinda skinny, I hope that injuries don't become a thing...if so then it's a bust...

the game is way fast for him now, but this is what experience is about... especially in the same way he had to grow in college, he will have to master the pro game, he's a game smart dude with winning play instincts, he is green right now, deal with it... the weopanz are good enough for plays to happen, I think we will see improvement... He's forcing passes, throwing to hard, trying to do do much...it was smart of Lafleur to do runs, nothing wrong with running the ball the way we did...He will emerge maybe not  today, but which QB outside of Mac and Herbert have already...

I know we have PSTD over Darnold, I agree, but honestly he seemed super nice, but low football IQ, only with a team like N England could Sam seem competent... 

When Zach  he's  gets his sh*te together, he will be an exciting QB, he's the same Zach we loved when he was being compared to maholmes and buddying it up with Aaron Rogers... Even the media fell in love with him, like Trevor Lawrence, Fields, etc, they are learning nobody but Mac is doing great...

The line is getting better, and if our LT comes back he will have just enuff time for him to make decisions... Did you see his improv play in the Tennessee game, when he was rookie of the week...

I mean yeah he's gotta lotta ways to go, but I still think he has it, and if he doesn't we will know soon enough... He is GREEN, and players who are green and have talent are  raw, he's not polished but not hopeless at least give him til the middle of next year to see if he is catching on...

Some fans have no patience and need instant gratification. 

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13 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

When your team runs about 4.5 yards per carry and gets around 150 yards on the ground the QB generally throws for between 150-200 yards at best and most scores are on the ground. I am starting to think most people who watch and comment on these games whether it be fans and or media just don't understand the game. It's one of those things where maybe those people shouldn't think since they are not used to it.

Yes, we scored 21 points yesterday. We scored 17 each of the prior two weeks. But we didn’t have 300 yards of garbage time passing so the offense sucked. 

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20 minutes ago, LSJF said:

He didn't have an accuracy problem in school, he's learning, he played a more controlled managing game, I hope he becomes better than that... Does he have issues reading the D? Sam clearly did, not sure about Zach, he's green, but not dumb..

Let's hope good teachers are put to the task, and soon.  Thus far, the current regime shows no sign of knowing how to develop a rookie QB with skills and minimal experience. 

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7 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Mainly because he looks significantly worse then guys like Nick Mullens and Mike White guys who will never ever get a real shot at being an NFL starter.  So yeah very concerned.

He's a rookie, so, who is kicking butt as a rookie, besides the two usual suspects....

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I thought although the arm talent was clear he had a big jump to the pro level after playing in clean pockets at BYU, hunting deep shots, and not facing a lot of adversity last season.

That being the case it seemed pretty obvious he’d benefit from sitting, learning, and working on mechanics while they continued to improve his supporting cast and install s new system.

Instead they gave him the starting job. He’s not handling pressure or running the offense well. That’s evident to everyone who watched the team with White and Flacco. Now it’s evident to him and clearly in his head.

So instead of having a talented guy in their back pocket who hasn’t seen the field while letting experienced guys help develop the rest of the largely young supporting cast and install the new scheme, they’ve got a young guy who knows he’s performing below replacement level as he’s trying to figure out the jump to the pro level on the fly. And continuing to put him out there and have worse results can’t be good for team morale but yanking him can’t be good for his confidence.

Just think they’ve made a mess of his development. It’s not his fault or fair to him but since he’s looking bad it’s annoying.

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5 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

IDK, Herbert is so great yet against Denver yesterday he looked God awful. Why does he get a pass for his 2nd year when he has a better team around him than Zack after 8 starts?. 

Here’s a perfect example of what the OP  is talking about. Herbert is a top 15 qb at worst. Guys may go through ups and downs, but he’s always in the top half of the league. I’m not “giving him a pass,” he’s a legit qb in this league. 

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5 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

Yes, we scored 21 points yesterday. We scored 17 each of the prior two weeks. But we didn’t have 300 yards of garbage time passing so the offense sucked. 

Plus our kicker has left a lot points on the field

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4 minutes ago, thshadow said:

Is that true?  Wasn't his completion percentage like 70% his last year?

Because the accuracy / ball placement issues are my biggest concern.  In particular, it seems to be getting worse, not better.  Off the top of my head, I feel like he had one bad short throw his first few weeks, then he was starting to have like 1 a week, and on Sunday there were like 3 or 4.

Hopefully, it's just rust / the knee.  But I guess we'll find out.

(And FTR, I 100% think he should get all of this year, as well as at least the beginning of next year.)

Completion percentage doesn’t tell the whole story regarding accuracy, especially in college throwing to wide open receivers.  Correct ball placement allows the receiver to do something once he catches the ball.  You can complete a pass but if the receiver has to reach behind or break stride to catch it, you leave possible YAC on the field.  

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10 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

IDK, Herbert is so great yet against Denver yesterday he looked God awful. Why does he get a pass for his 2nd year when he has a better team around him than Zack after 8 starts?. 

Because he's actually a really good NFL QB.  

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2 minutes ago, Buffalo 24 7 said:

From my perspective......

1. He was hyped up as the next Mahomes putting unrealistic expectations for him and Jets fans.

2. He was gifted the starting job and didn't earn it. At the same time, his backups have produced more, which leads to questions on his overall ability.

3. Mac Jones is playing well, putting more pressure on Wilson to produce sooner.

All good, he did excellent in the preseason, which is what it is, but it was on JD to have a Flacco type to start while Zach rode the pine, but they copied what most teams were doing in recent years starting guys from day one...

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