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The All Things Zach Wilson Thread: MERGED


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13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Let’s not make the same mistake over again.  1.5-2 years is the most you need to determine if a young QB has it or not. And Douglas had better bring in a veteran QB worth a damn this offseason. 

That timeline can be affected by the teams level of talent. Putting a rookie QB on a team that is all time bad is not a good idea. I go with the build the team first and then draft your QB approach.  Otherwise I agree, 1.5 to 2 years is all that's needed to determine if it's time to move on.

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Yep

I can't take it anymore so I went merge happy.

I am going to preface this by saying that I desperately want Zach Wilson to be good.  I take no pleasure in seeing him struggle. Coming into the season, the one thing I wanted to avoid was the ne

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2 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Let’s wait and see on Zach before pulling the plug 

Can we please stop posting this like this is an actual thing that can happen?

Fans can't pull plugs, fans can't cut anyone, and fans can't move on from a QB.

The only thing Fans can do is advocate, on a forum no one at the Jets Front Office is reading for management advice, what they think should happen.

And even then, almost no one is advocating for cutting Zach Wilson now.  Or even at seasons end.

At most, some want to see a legit competition brought in for next year to compete with him and drive him to be his best.

If you believe in Zach Wilson, that shouldn't be a concern.  Zach should beat out some failed recycled QB like, say, a Trubisky-type, right?

I think almost all of us recognize that the likelihood is that Zach is our starter, will be our starter, and has approx. 40 more games (the end of his third year) before the Org. might choose to move on. 

We also all understand I think that after next week, Zach will be ~25% through his first three years here, and that 25% is, in fact, enough time to start forming opinions on a player, pro and con.  Forming, not setting in stone.  Zach's play will drive future opinion changes.

But please, I beg of you, stop arguing like we control "pulling the plug", because we don't.  And aren't.  Even the most ardent Zach doubter would likely acknowledge keeping him a minimum of three years and letting him compete for the #1 job the next two years is the right call, given our investment in him.

So no one is pulling the plug, really.  Only JD can do that. 

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1 minute ago, Big_Slick said:

That timeline can be affected by the teams level of talent. Putting a rookie QB on a team that is all time bad is not a good idea. I go with the build the team first and then draft your QB approach.  Otherwise I agree, 1.5 to 2 years is all that's needed to determine if it's time to move on.

But this team isn't "all time bad" right now, at least not on offense.  The supporting cast for Wilson is, at worst, middle of the pack.  And the coaching hasn't been all that terrible either, even with a rookie OC.

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

It's not as outlandish as it sounds. 4 of 5 of NFL.com's final mock drafts on April 15th 2021 had Mac Jones going at #3 to SF. Only MJD didn't. He had Pats trading up for Mac at #7.

https://www.nfl.com/news/maurice-jones-drew-2021-nfl-mock-draft-2-0-two-trades-shake-up-top-10

2 and 3 are a big difference. Revisionist history is nice (not saying you, didnt know your stance pre draft). Mac Jones at 2 was a hard pill for a lot to swallow. Right now it seems to be he was the best in the class. Let’s see if he stays that way 

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22 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

2 and 3 are a big difference. Revisionist history is nice (not saying you, didnt know your stance pre draft). Mac Jones at 2 was a hard pill for a lot to swallow. Right now it seems to be he was the best in the class. Let’s see if he stays that way 

Keep in mind #1 and #2 were set in stone. #3 was literally as high as they could put Mac Jones in those mocks.

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27 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But this team isn't "all time bad" right now, at least not on offense.  The supporting cast for Wilson is, at worst, middle of the pack.  And the coaching hasn't been all that terrible either, even with a rookie OC.

I was kinda thinking of Sam. Who I supported and thought we should have run it back with him this year and use the picks to build the team and then get a QB in '23.

Although - I now realize that you and others were right about Sam, he'll will never be more than a bottom tier starter and more likely will be a backup for the next 5 years.

 

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30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But this team isn't "all time bad" right now, at least not on offense.  The supporting cast for Wilson is, at worst, middle of the pack.  And the coaching hasn't been all that terrible either, even with a rookie OC.

Real Jets Fans think the entire team sucks and the poor little QB is a victim.

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13 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You would be the one to ask this ridiculous question.

Using your logic the Jags would take Mac over Lawrence, the Jets would take Mac over ZW, the 49rs Mac over Lance and the Bears would take Mac over Fields

I'd bet not one of those teams takes the switch 

Yeah, but.....

Totally agree on Lawrence.  Even with Fields.

Trevor was the only slam dunk.  Fields, I think, you could see potential if developed correctly. 

Zach and Trey?  Not so much.  I would probably put Mac in there as well.  Clearly, the Jets and 49ers were looking for something.  Whether it was found, who knows.  If the draft think tank thought differently, maybe the Jets draft Mac or Trey.

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2 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

I was kinda thinking of Sam. Who I supported and thought we should have run it back with him this year and use the picks to build the team and then get a QB in '23.

Although - I now realize that you and others were right about Sam, he'll will never be more than a bottom tier starter and more likely will be a backup for the next 5 years.

 

Yep.  In the end, a bad QB stayed bad even when his circumstances improved.  If only there were people shouting this for years....

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13 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

This is a completely logical and prospective (at the time) argument. 

Any other argument is pure 20-20 hindsight. 

NO one was taking Mac over the other 4 QBs. Other than the 2-3 faux- geniuses here. 

You know I do think that Shanahan really wanted Jones and was overruled by the owner or something. The Lance pick was surprising

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31 minutes ago, jgb said:

Keep in mind #1 and #2 were set in stone. #3 was literally as high as they could put Mac Jones in those mocks.

I know. That’s why I’m saying it’s a lot easier to put him at 3 then it was at 2

I didn’t read anyone saying he was worth #1 ahead of Lawrence but I did read a few things that had Wilson ahead of him (how wrong it looks right now)

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13 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

This is a completely logical and prospective (at the time) argument. 

Any other argument is pure 20-20 hindsight. 

NO one was taking Mac over the other 4 QBs. Other than the 2-3 faux- geniuses here. 

4 of 5 of NFL.com's final mock drafts on April 15th 2021 had Mac Jones going at #3 to SF. Only MJD didn't. He had Pats trading up for Mac at #7. The mass memory people seem to have that Mac Jones was a consensus inferior product before the draft is a modern day example of the Mandela effect.

https://www.nfl.com/news/maurice-jones-drew-2021-nfl-mock-draft-2-0-two-trades-shake-up-top-10

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5 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

I know. That’s why I’m saying it’s a lot easier to put him at 3 then it was at 2

I didn’t read anyone saying he was worth #1 ahead of Lawrence but I did read a few things that had Wilson ahead of him (how wrong it looks right now)

I've lost what the discussion is about lol

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7 minutes ago, jgb said:

4 of 5 of NFL.com's final mock drafts on April 15th 2021 had Mac Jones going at #3 to SF. Only MJD didn't. He had Pats trading up for Mac at #7. The mass memory people seem to have that Mac Jones was a consensus inferior product before the draft is a modern day example of the Mandela effect.

https://www.nfl.com/news/maurice-jones-drew-2021-nfl-mock-draft-2-0-two-trades-shake-up-top-10

So Mac Jones is on SF?  I'm pretty sure he's not.  And "mock drafts" are pure guesses by talking heads to get clicks.  Some "mocks" had Zach going ahead of Trevor.  Some had Fields at 2 or 3.

This is all opinion but I do not think any team that took one of the top 4 picks had any interest in taking Mac.

Or they would have.  

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Can we please stop posting this like this is an actual thing that can happen?

Fans can't pull plugs, fans can't cut anyone, and fans can't move on from a QB.

The only thing Fans can do is advocate, on a forum no one at the Jets Front Office is reading for management advice, what they think should happen.

And even then, almost no one is advocating for cutting Zach Wilson now.  Or even at seasons end.

At most, some want to see a legit competition brought in for next year to compete with him and drive him to be his best.

If you believe in Zach Wilson, that shouldn't be a concern.  Zach should beat out some failed recycled QB like, say, a Trubisky-type, right?

I think almost all of us recognize that the likelihood is that Zach is our starter, will be our starter, and has approx. 40 more games (the end of his third year) before the Org. might choose to move on. 

We also all understand I think that after next week, Zach will be ~25% through his first three years here, and that 25% is, in fact, enough time to start forming opinions on a player, pro and con.  Forming, not setting in stone.  Zach's play will drive future opinion changes.

But please, I beg of you, stop arguing like we control "pulling the plug", because we don't.  And aren't.  Even the most ardent Zach doubter would likely acknowledge keeping him a minimum of three years and letting him compete for the #1 job the next two years is the right call, given our investment in him.

So no one is pulling the plug, really.  Only JD can do that. 

Obviously I realize we have no power over decisions made in the organization lol, I’m talking in a general sense of fans “pulling the plug” on a belief he can be a good qb. Which it seems a majority have done already

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14 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

So Mac Jones is on SF?  I'm pretty sure he's not.  And "mock drafts" are pure guesses by talking heads to get clicks.  Some "mocks" had Zach going ahead of Trevor.  Some had Fields at 2 or 3.

This is all opinion but I do not think any team that took one of the top 4 picks had any interest in taking Mac.

Or they would have.  

My point that anyone saying they'd pick Mac early in the first round is not (a) a wild-eye maniac; (b) dishonestly applying hindsight, or (c) a troll.

But hey, you're only making me look better since I did have Mac rated above Zach and Fields on this very board. So the more insane you make that position seem, makes me look even more like a mad scientist quarterback evaluator.

 

 

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20 hours ago, ZachEY said:

Could you please find a post where someone is actively rooting against him?  Thinking he's been terrible and actively rooting against him are not the same thing.

Also, Mahommes is struggling to the tune of a 25/11 TD to INT ratio with 290 ypg thus far.  If a Jets QB ever "struggled" to those numbers, 80% of the fanbase would have his face tattooed on their taints.

Our fan based roots against players all of the time. While I don't have time to trudge through the posts, consider the:

He is a Bust; we should never draft a QB in top of 1st, If JD picked him, he sucks, Fields is better - all before a single snap. Many look for any excuse to call him terrible - some will kill him for a few INTs and then root for White to get a shot after a 4 INT game. See the reaction to the comparison of his stats against the stats of Mac Jones against same 4 teams.

We also get the player is soft if they are hurt; Becton is a fat lazy pig on toothpicks; Carter is too short; they cast shade on anyone because JD drafted them and they don't like JD or they didn't want that player over another. They may not openly root against the player, but they take any chance to knock him and aren't objective.

As for supporting Zack with those numbers, the loud fans on this site will never be happy. If he had those stats they would talk about the win. If he wins, they talk about it wasn't his win; when we loose and there is one bad pass, he is the worst. Last week Zack sucked, but got the win, and yet the boo-birds were out; people called for White to start, etc.

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2 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

You are a legend.  You know the rest. 

Sometimes being right just has to be it's own reward. I'm come to live with it. I now draw strength from the thumbs down and just wait for history and consensus to catch up without stressing about it.

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10 minutes ago, jgb said:

My point that anyone saying they'd pick Mac early in the first round is not (a) a wild-eye maniac; (b) dishonestly applying hindsight, or (c) a troll.

But hey, you're only making me look better since I did have Mac rated above Zach and Fields on this very board. So the more insane you make that position seem, makes me look even more like a mad scientist quarterback evaluator.

 

 

Hey watch the rotator cuff on that self reach around bud, your no spring chicken anymore

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2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Hey watch the rotator cuff on that self reach around bud, your no spring chicken anymore

Someone has to do it. Being right on JN doesn't get you a lot of friends.

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Sometimes being right just has to be it's own reward. I'm come to live with it. I now draw strength from the thumbs down and just wait for history and consensus to catch up without stressing about it.

You are an internet superstar.  Being "right" (lol) on the internet isn't NEARLY sufficient enough.  You have been awarded 10 gold internet stars.  It that's not enough, let us know and we can award you many many more gold internet stars. As many as you want.  

Like I said, legend.  

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11 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Obviously I realize we have no power over decisions made in the organization lol, I’m talking in a general sense of fans “pulling the plug” on a belief he can be a good qb. Which it seems a majority have done already

I think quite a few are very disappointed with Zach so far, I agree.  I'm one of them, I expected better.

But I think the number who have truly pulled the plug are very few and far between, even if some folks rhetoric sounds like they have.

I mean me and @jgb are two of JN's biggest Zach doubters IMO, and neither of us have pulled the plug. 

He wants competition brought in, and I'm similar if even a bit more "ok, give Zach a 2nd year".

Might seem like splitting hairs to some, but I honestly don't think that many folks have truly come to a "Zach sucks, always will, lets cut him" view just yet.

Now, he doesn't improve the rest of this year and early next.....yeah, we will have some joining the "Cut Zach" crowd then I think.  But lets hope we don't get to that point.

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7 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

You are an internet superstar.  Being "right" (lol) on the internet isn't NEARLY sufficient enough.  You have been awarded 10 gold internet stars.  It that's not enough, let us know and we can award you many many more gold internet stars. As many as you want.  

Like I said, legend.  

Bro, you said people who say now they'd take Mac Jones over those other guys are guilty of hindsight analysis. It's pretty relevant to point out that I rated Jones ahead of all of them except Lawrence before the draft. I thought we were having a discussion. But I understand that you think you found a loose string to pull on to get out of the underlying argument.

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9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I think quite a few are very disappointed with Zach so far, I agree.  I'm one of them, I expected better.

But I think the number who have truly pulled the plug are very few and far between, even if some folks rhetoric sounds like they have.

I mean me and @jgb are two of JN's biggest Zach doubters IMO, and neither of us have pulled the plug. 

He wants competition brought in, and I'm similar if even a bit more "ok, give Zach a 2nd year".

Might seem like splitting hairs to some, but I honestly don't think that many folks have truly come to a "Zach sucks, always will, lets cut him" view just yet.

Now, he doesn't improve the rest of this year and early next.....yeah, we will have some joining the "Cut Zach" crowd then I think.  But lets hope we don't get to that point.

My position isn't really that related to Zach personally. He's had a very poor start to his career, currently has the lowest QB rating in the NFL, and guys like that generally don't become franchise QBs. I'm an odds guy.

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19 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

You would’ve had to have balls of steel to take MAC Jones with 2nd pick in this years draft. 

Ah, now I remember thanks.

Yeah, I think I would've. But the reason I brought up those mocks -- even though it makes my position appear far less bold -- is to show that it wasn't that crazy of an idea that Mac would go early. The pundits would not have exploded with laughter like some here now seem to believe. Not that a GM should allow social pressure to influence his decisions.

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9 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

You realize Lars is a nine foot Viking and is about four times as intimidating as any Steelers fan. Just saying. 

I’m aware that @Larz is a mountain of a man, indeed. However, truth and justice are worth dying for. Jamal Adams sucks.

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6 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

hey, we all cant be right 6 games in on the interwebz, some of us have to take what we can get

Again, I'm merely stating that Zach succeeding is now less likely than right after he was drafted. There still exists a material -- and comforting, for us Jets fans -- margin of error due to the small sample size.

But speaking with nuance on the Internet is like trying to sell dirt to earthworms. 

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1 minute ago, jgb said:

Again, I'm merely stating that Zach succeeding is now less likely than right after he was drafted. There still exists a material margin of error due to the small sample size.

But speaking with nuance on the Internet is like trying to sell dirt to earthworms. 

But wait, a few posts earlier you declared yourself right already, your confusing....

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