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The All Things Zach Wilson Thread: MERGED


Barry McCockinner
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When the word elite talent gets thrown around, I usually don't know what they're talking about.  Every starter has elite talent in the NFL.

There are however a few athletic freaks of nature.  Lamar Jackson, Aaron Rogers, Pat Mahomes and ... Josh Allen (and probably Stafford, Herbert and T Lawrence).

They're in a completely different class than ZW, who is a 'good' athlete, but nothing like that.

Josh Allen was raw in his first year (maybe a little less than Zac, but still raw).  However the athletic talent is so good that you could see that you could sit and wait on it.  And indeed, it was good enough to win some games for them.

Sorry, but Zacs rollouts are good enough to not get himself killed, but other than two hero balls (which were more on the WR than him) its not going to be winning that many games for us.  So you better hope that the QB aspect develops for him.

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3 minutes ago, Hael said:

When the word elite talent gets thrown around, I usually don't know what they're talking about.  Every starter has elite talent in the NFL.

There are however a few athletic freaks of nature.  Lamar Jackson, Aaron Rogers, Pat Mahomes and ... Josh Allen (and probably Stafford, Herbert and T Lawrence).

They're in a completely different class than ZW, who is a 'good' athlete, but nothing like that.

Josh Allen was raw in his first year (maybe a little less than Zac, but still raw).  However the athletic talent is so good that you could see that you could sit and wait on it.  And indeed, it was good enough to win some games for them.

Sorry, but Zacs rollouts are good enough to not get himself killed, but other than two hero balls (which were more on the WR than him) its not going to be winning that many games for us.  So you better hope that the QB aspect develops for him.

Wrong on a thousand levels. “Hero balls”? “More on the wr”? Lol 

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2 minutes ago, Hael said:

When the word elite talent gets thrown around, I usually don't know what they're talking about.  Every starter has elite talent in the NFL.

There are however a few athletic freaks of nature.  Lamar Jackson, Aaron Rogers, Pat Mahomes and ... Josh Allen (and probably Stafford, Herbert and T Lawrence).

They're in a completely different class than ZW, who is a 'good' athlete, but nothing like that.

Josh Allen was raw in his first year (maybe a little less than Zac, but still raw).  However the athletic talent is so good that you could see that you could sit and wait on it.  And indeed, it was good enough to win some games for them.

Sorry, but Zacs rollouts are good enough to not get himself killed, but other than two hero balls (which were more on the WR than him) its not going to be winning that many games for us.  So you better hope that the QB aspect develops for him.

Shocked How I Met Your Mother GIF

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I can let you borrow my Zach goggles. 

Is there a stat vs different defenses?  The noncomplicated zones he seems to feast, and that isn’t a given.

At BYU he reminded me of a point guard his junior season.  He was toying with defenses.  He knew the coverages so well he’d dial in on small stuff like DBs hips.  Zach would throw the second they turned the wrong way or leaned the wrong way.  

Now he is trying to see the big picture stuff and not trusting his eyes yet.  I think the game is still too fast for him but in time, he will get it.  I think the comfortable Zach is going to be the real Zach.  Once he sees the D he can dissect it.  

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Sometimes I come on here and legitimately wonder if I watched a different Tennessee game then everyone else.  Whether it’s asking what his “flashes” have been or saying Wilson has never played anywhere close to White vs the Bengals.

As far as flashes, I’d say the vast majority of the Panthers game was positive well and stretches of nearly every other game except the 1st Patriots game.

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23 minutes ago, Hael said:

When the word elite talent gets thrown around, I usually don't know what they're talking about.  Every starter has elite talent in the NFL.

There are however a few athletic freaks of nature.  Lamar Jackson, Aaron Rogers, Pat Mahomes and ... Josh Allen (and probably Stafford, Herbert and T Lawrence).

They're in a completely different class than ZW, who is a 'good' athlete, but nothing like that.

Josh Allen was raw in his first year (maybe a little less than Zac, but still raw).  However the athletic talent is so good that you could see that you could sit and wait on it.  And indeed, it was good enough to win some games for them.

Sorry, but Zacs rollouts are good enough to not get himself killed, but other than two hero balls (which were more on the WR than him) its not going to be winning that many games for us.  So you better hope that the QB aspect develops for him.

Rogers and Mahomes are freak athletes?  Stafford is even crazier.  I don’t think he’s even an above average athlete in the sense most used when talking about “freak athletes”

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Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

Rogers and Mahomes are freak athletes?  Stafford is even crazier.  I don’t think he’s even an above average athlete in the sense most used when talking about “freak athletes”

I think re Mahomes/Stafford he's talking about laser rifle arm.

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25 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

Are you sh*tting me? Kid put on an absolute  clinic against Tennessee. He put the team on his back and won this game. It was a laser show 

Not to mention that he was clutch in OT on top of it all

Wilson almost brought us back against the panthers and Atlanta as well

THANK YOU MISTER UNCLE NICCO DUDE

PLEASE WATCH!!!!!!!!!

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8 minutes ago, jgb said:

I think re Mahomes/Stafford he's talking about laser rifle arm.

Yeah I suppose that is the logical explanation.  I’ve just never heard “arm strength” when talking about what makes a good athlete.

This dude has one of the most electric fastballs I’ve ever seen.  Just exploded late.  I don’t think anyone would call him a freak athlete.

image.thumb.jpeg.3e2d33e46b2ba5c7a4c6471b1d3c28c2.jpeg

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26 minutes ago, Uncle Nicco said:

Are you sh*tting me? Kid put on an absolute  clinic against Tennessee. He put the team on his back and won this game. It was a laser show 

Not to mention that he was clutch in OT on top of it all

Wilson almost brought us back against the panthers and Atlanta as well

this was his best game by far.

i have alot of optimism for him. 

you look at this and the Atlanta and NE games he looks so comfortable throwing in that 25-30 yd range. thats not who we saw Sunday. its not Zach that concerns me as much as what the CS is trying to force him to do. lets just hope it was rust from being off for 4 weeks but i dont think so. 

we need to teach him to throw the short passes better, but not to live on them. 

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2 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

I get it, but when people are bashing players before the season starts, or calling them names like midget or lazy, or whatever it is rooting against them. When the player does the same as a QB that everyone is talking about as rookie of the year and people talk about the wins, but when he wins, they talk about the play it is either rooting against him or it is unrealistic expectations.

When the player does well after all of the growth issues and the same people don't post or move on to the next player that isn't HOF after 8 weeks, that is rooting against him.

I am as frustrated as most on the lack of growth of both Zack and the team, but I don't think he is the worst QB ever, or that Saleh and JD should be fired, or that Mac Jones is a better prospect. The difference is that I knew this was going to be a rough year for Zack and that the Jets would only win 3-4 games - so I guess I have different expectations. Zack may turn out to be a bust, but no way do we know that now; and no way does his poor and erratic play make him the worst QB in the history of the Jets. Any QB is going to struggle on this team (some more than others). A rookie QB more so. Just my opinion.

I just don't agree.

Making jokes about a player doesn't mean you want him to fail.  It means you're making jokes.  I don't like a number of them, but this is a football website filled with grown men who are over-invested in a hobby.  Dumb jokes are a part of it.  Saying negative things also doesn't mean you're rooting against someone, it means you're watching, evaluating, and coming to a conclusion, and expressing that conclusion.

Again, as for Mac Jones, Zach was only the same on a cherry picked, and somewhat intellectually dishonest comparison.  It was shoehorned, and so people reacted to that.

We do agree that there was likely to be a struggle.  However, we've seen a lot of bad QB play as Jets fans, and Wilson looks as bad, or worse, than any of them right now.  Saying that doesn't mean I want it to be the case or I hope it stays that way.  It means, that's my evaluation at present.

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He mostly ran around like a chicken without a head....His running ability carried him more through his rookie year than anything else. 
ZW seems to be going out of his to not have that as a part of his game.  


Most likely because I suspect he’d like to live. Josh Allen is a big strong mofo, he can take a hit. Even a little guy like Kyler Murray you can see he’s built like a tank. Zach’s frame precludes him from being a true running threat. He may break one off against man covg if he gets outside but he’s not a guy any defense is going to be fearful of his rushing ability.


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20 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I just don't agree.

Making jokes about a player doesn't mean you want him to fail.  It means you're making jokes.  I don't like a number of them, but this is a football website filled with grown men who are over-invested in a hobby.  Dumb jokes are a part of it.  Saying negative things also doesn't mean you're rooting against someone, it means you're watching, evaluating, and coming to a conclusion, and expressing that conclusion.

Again, as for Mac Jones, Zach was only the same on a cherry picked, and somewhat intellectually dishonest comparison.  It was shoehorned, and so people reacted to that.

We do agree that there was likely to be a struggle.  However, we've seen a lot of bad QB play as Jets fans, and Wilson looks as bad, or worse, than any of them right now.  Saying that doesn't mean I want it to be the case or I hope it stays that way.  It means, that's my evaluation at present.

Sorry, but calling a player fat, lazy, short, or a bust isn't a joke it is a complaint that the player was a wasted pick. I also don't agree with the grown men :-)

Most fans who vent here are overly critical on any player or coach that they don't like because they wouldn't have picked them, or the GM they don't like picked them. These are 20+ kids who are trying to adjust to the NFL - some will fail, some will succeed, and they all do it on their own pace.

I get that you aren't like that, but I think you are giving some of the more vocal fans more credit than they deserve. 

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4 hours ago, jgb said:

All these things can be true but it still does not follow ipso facto that Zach would excel on the Pats or Mac Jones would suck on the Jets.

No, but this does explain why Mac might be having a MUCH easier time winning games playing QB on the Pats while Zack is struggling playing on a really young, really bad NY Jets team. No excuses really, just the way it is. Heck, Zack might be 0-9 on the Pats, but that's a slightly different conversation.

But for now, it's the makeup of the two teams (plus coaching/game plans, etc) that seems to provide all the answers.

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2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

He mostly ran around like a chicken without a head....His running ability carried him more through his rookie year than anything else. 

ZW seems to be going out of his to not have that as a part of his game.  

Hey, Zack broke 4 ankles of 2 Texans on that TD run, so he can run when he has to like at the goal line.

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7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

OIP.CyE-lflqwW4CNSwe-sEVEQHaEK?pid=ImgDe

 

In some parallel universe professional athletes have their own messageboards where they defend fans. "I know Nico whiffed on Darnold, but the kid is due and we're stuck with him anyway so no reason to nitpick apart his takes."

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4 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

He's looked bad so far. I'm alright giving him 3 years (barring a Cam/Kyler situation) and continuing to build the team around him.

Worst case scenario the team is loaded and we can move a boat load of picks for a QB via draft or trade and start again.

Your worst case scenario seems a little... soft.

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1 hour ago, bostonmajet said:

Sorry, but calling a player fat, lazy, short, or a bust isn't a joke it is a complaint that the player was a wasted pick. I also don't agree with the grown men :-)

Most fans who vent here are overly critical on any player or coach that they don't like because they wouldn't have picked them, or the GM they don't like picked them. These are 20+ kids who are trying to adjust to the NFL - some will fail, some will succeed, and they all do it on their own pace.

I get that you aren't like that, but I think you are giving some of the more vocal fans more credit than they deserve. 

I'm not sure what's worse. Being overly-critical of players -- who we will never meet, engage with, or influence in any manner -- of being overly-critical of fellow fans being overly-critical of players.

Is there a fantasy league I'm not aware of where we can draft posters? What's the scoring system? Posts per week? Upvotes? I bet I'm the guy no one wants to draft but they dread seeing me on their opponent's team.

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33 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

He's looked bad so far. I'm alright giving him 3 years (barring a Cam/Kyler situation) and continuing to build the team around him.

Worst case scenario the team is loaded and we can move a boat load of picks for a QB via draft or trade and start again.

Did you forget about the second half of the panthers game? The Titans game? The start of the second NE game? The 13/19 stretch last week? Yes, he’s had a lot of bad, and he’s struggling with some bizarre accuracy issue right now, but, there has been some good. The way group think brain washes people this day and age is incredible. 

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34 minutes ago, jgb said:

In some parallel universe professional athletes have their own messageboards where they defend fans. "I know Nico whiffed on Darnold, but the kid is due and we're stuck with him anyway so no reason to nitpick apart his takes."

I didn’t whiff on Darnold. I was correct to not give up on him until I did. Just because you were “right” in the end doesn’t mean your process to get there was. 

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Just now, Uncle Nicco said:

I didn’t whiff on Darnold. I was correct to not give up on him until I did. Just because you were “right” in the end doesn’t mean your process to get there was. 

Yes, I'm well aware that being right is considered a character flaw on JN when the team sucks.

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Didn't we already go through this whole "FLASHES" narrative with Darnold?

I don't understand why it is being held onto so tightly now.  It's about the only thing being said to excuse Zach's horrible play.  Zach better be good next season, that's all I know.  Darnold was only given 2 1/2 years with MUCH worse offensive talent, and he had to experience a coaching/OC change.  Zach won't have to deal with that.

Also remember, despite Darnold's idiotic play, his "FLASHES" were shown multiple times across MULTIPLE WEEKS in his first 2 years.

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5 minutes ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

Didn't we already go through this whole "FLASHES" narrative with Darnold?

I don't understand why it is being held onto so tightly now.  It's about the only thing being said to excuse Zach's horrible play.  Zach better be good next season, that's all I know.  Darnold was only given 2 1/2 years with MUCH worse offensive talent, and he had to experience a coaching/OC change.  Zach won't have to deal with that.

Also remember, despite Darnold's idiotic play, his "FLASHES" were shown multiple times across MULTIPLE WEEKS in his first 2 years.

If you need to dig into a play-by-play analysis in search of flashes, you probably don't have a franchise QB.

3 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

History says it’s safe to bet against the Jets. 
 

i want to believe santa GIF by Sean Solomon

I agree, which makes the visceral reaction to people merely playing the odds all the more perplexing.

"Of course most QBs fail, you're not exactly going out on a limb with that prediction so don't congratulate yourself if you're proven right."

*deep breath*

"How dare you think a Jets QB will fail!!! Fake fan!"

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