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The All Things Zach Wilson Thread: MERGED


Barry McCockinner
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32 minutes ago, the Claw said:

Can’t be tired if it’s still relevant. You enjoy your status symbols, I’ll be over here not investing in over-priced crap that depreciates. I will never understand anyone who thinks that driving is somehow fun.

 

I own guns. I have no problem with anyone who owns a couple of guns. If you own “lots” of guns, I think you’re weird.

Oh - as opposed to investing in a car that appreciates? LOL Dude - Unless you're collecting the original Mustang from Bullit, 9/10 of your cars on the road are gonna depreciate. 

And it's truly possibly to enjoy driving. It's like anything else - it's what you make of it. 

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30 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Lets say Zach shows us nothing for the remainder of the season do we not have a QB competition White Vs Wilson ? How can you not ? Oh that's right because Zach is the second overall pick and Mike White is better can't have that happening

Dude, I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that over the years you’ve been a Pat Ryan, Glenn Foley, Brooks Bollinger kinda guy. I get it, fun stories, but Mike White will not be part of a QB competition on this team. If they decide to move on from Zach, it will be for a QB they believe will be significantly better than White. I don’t know for sure that Mike White will even be on the team next year. Let it go. 
 
And yes, #2 overall picks get priority in real life. 

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Three years is the time frame for a quarterback. If the dude does not produce well enough after 3 years, its time to move on. For the most part, a quarterback will show who he is in his 3rd season (Josh Allen, Kyler Murray). A rookie who shines or sucks does not always indicate he will be a Rockstar/bum going forward. Baker looked light out his rookie year, now he's meh. Mahomes and Lamar sat their first seasons. Having a guy like Herbert is such an anomaly. There are always exceptions, like injury (RG3), off field issues (Haskins) or advanced suckage (Rosen). A rookie season is a relatively poor barometer for overall career success, although a good rookie campaign is obviously preferable.

Looking ahead, a QB's second season is a bit of a better metric to determine success. If you can get a QB to play as well his second year as he did his first year, he's taken a step forward. With a year on tape and an expanding role, quarterbacks often experience a sophomore slump. If your QB can maintain or improve his level of play, then he is set up for a 3rd year breakout, or he will lock in his level of ability (Allen vs Baker). Of course there are exceptions, such as when a guy steps in and plays great, or struggles with flashes of excellence. I see Zach in category 2. 

I don't think it's fair to count Zach out. So far, he has sucked. Yesterday, he largely sucked. But young quarterbacks usually suck to a degree. We have been privilaged to see so many young stud QB's. Mahomes, Lamar, Herbert are all wild exceptions. The truth is, that type of success was never possible for Zach. We never had the weapons of the Chargers, the offensive line of the Ravens, or the everything of KC. Zach missed a lot of development time and stepped in to a game rusty. All I want to see this year is improvement. Specifically, I want him more accurate and more effective in the intermediate level of the field, with occasional splash plays. If Zach does that this and next year, I think he could be poised for a nice third year, assuming coaching and supporting cast are good enough. If not, God save the jets.

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1 hour ago, maury77 said:

He isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. Earliest you can even have this discussion is 2023.

Yep, IMO  for 2 full years it's his team.  If after 2 years he is still struggling  you startl looking for his replacement.

He gets to compete in the 3rd year, but can be replaced as "the future".

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41 minutes ago, the Claw said:

Can’t be tired if it’s still relevant. You enjoy your status symbols, I’ll be over here not investing in over-priced crap that depreciates. I will never understand anyone who thinks that driving is somehow fun.

 

I own guns. I have no problem with anyone who owns a couple of guns. If you own “lots” of guns, I think you’re weird.

Where is sar? He is not going to take kindly to this.

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People have no clue how the NFL is constructed. The reason for drafting a rookie QB is that they don’t eat cap space.. until their 4th/5th year. The idea is draft a QB who is good, have the money to build around them, and you can afford to make your team better. When year 4/5 comes along you should know what you have. If you don’t, the answer is simple.. get rid of him because he is only gonna bury you in cap hell.. see Sam Darnold. But you need those first 3 years to make an accurate evaluation.  Sitting him or letting Mike White play does nothing for this structure.

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46 minutes ago, undertow said:

If anything has been established over the past month it's that the reasons for Zachs struggles are nobodies but his own so all the excuses are out the window and just sound silly.  

We agree on that. Mike White, Josh Johnson, and Joe Flacco were able to manage the offense with the same line, weopinnzzzzz, and OC. 

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19 minutes ago, The Gun Of Bavaria said:

Oh - as opposed to investing in a car that appreciates? LOL Dude - Unless you're collecting the original Mustang from Bullit, 9/10 of your cars on the road are gonna depreciate. 

And it's truly possibly to enjoy driving. It's like anything else - it's what you make of it. 

Thats my point. Its a ridiculous concept to spend all that money or go into freakin debt for a car. I’ve never spent more than 10k on a vehicle and I buy them with cash. I take care of them for how ever many years they last and then i do it all over again. My last truck was 6k and it lasted for over 5 years before the transmission finally died. That’s a little over a thousand dollars a year, the equivalent of what, three months payments on a bmw? I generally spend a tenth of the capital for the same outcome: the pleasure of driving next to status fiends who buy ridiculous vehicles so they can have “fun.” It’s a scam.

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1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

So you are confirming you think learning curves for other positions are similar?  Got it.

Also, do some research before you try to sound like you know what you are talking about.  Vera-Tucker played in a heavy zone scheme at USC.  It would have taken all of 5 seconds for you to verify that. Instead, you spew an uneducated “opinion” thinking you are putting me in my place.  We live in an age we’re nearly everything is able to be fax checked in seconds.  I’d start trying it out if I were you.

100% correct and also McGovern has played in almost this same exact system his last year in Denver. 

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14 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

If we’re being honest, neither Sanchez nor Darnold were this bad as rookies. Zach is missing receivers by 3-5 yards at times. Bouncing balls off the turf. It’s Tim Tebow caliber accuracy. 

It would behoove Joe Douglas to start thinking about competition next season. Bring in another rookie or a vet with upside and have them complete with Zach in training camp. It would be irresponsible, and unfair to the other players, to automatically grant Zach the starting quarterback position for 2022. 

I agree man, don't just anoint a starter before training camp even begins like they did this year

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Wilson’s biggest problem is that Mike White and Josh Johnson came in and showed the world (and his own locker room) that the big issue strangling the Jets is Zach Wilson. 

100%.

If Wilson had stayed healthy the narrative would be different.

But when the team leads the league in passing over a four game stretch with the 2nd and 3rd string (and you can't complete a pass) it sends a very clear picture what the problem is.

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

All the people who have defended Zach are basically saying the same thing. He has only played about 6 games. I understand there is a big jump from college to the NFL but we are seeing the other rookies starting to settle in. Both Michael Carter's, Moore, AVT, even Echoles before he was hurt was showing improvement. Has Zach fixed anything? I think yesterday he made a real effort to play within the offensive system but what we saw is he wasn't really that good at it. More so his receivers bailed him out on some of the short passes by catching the low pass or ball thrown behind them rather than Zach making well timed and placed passes. So do we just give Zach a pass on the rest of the season? I know some are not giving him a pass at all and I don't  think there is a QB in this coming draft class that is worth giving Zach the Rosen treatment, but even as bad a Peyton was in his first season, it was just the massive amount of picks. You could see the other great attributes.  I just don't see it with Zach. Actually every game I see a new issue. This game was the first one I saw he had no touch on some short ones. How long until the light goes on. It already has for the other rookies.

Edit for Maxman

Yes, I know we won. That doesn't  mean our QB is taking the same steps forward the other rookies are.

Ask the Bills how long to wait on a rookie QB.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

It is very rare for an organization to cut bait with a #2 draft pick QB sooner than that.  Not unheard of (Rosen) but rare.

 

To be fair, Rosen was picked at 10 I think. Let's look at Mayfield - he had his ups and downs and into his fifth year, Cleveland still doesn't know what to do with him. I hope that isn't us, but ...

Look at Maholmes - The guy was great  and so was his team - this year he is struggling - this concept that a fan - who doesn't know as much as coaches and doesn't see everything that is happening in practice - knows Zack is a bust or that Zack will be great is ridiculous. It is even harder to determine when the team has almost half of their players being a rookie or 2nd year, brand new schemes and new coaching staffs.

We won't know anything for sure until middle/end of next year at the earliest. Most likely not until the following year. If it was easy, every team would have a top 10 QB (which of course is impossible).

The real question is why are Jets fans rooting against him? I understand not being convinced or not liking the GM/HC, but to actively root against the kid - that is mind blowing...

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1 minute ago, bostonmajet said:

The real question is why are Jets fans rooting against him? I understand not being convinced or not liking the GM/HC, but to actively root against the kid - that is mind blowing...

I think the team's piss-poor ability to draft, coach/nurture a Franchise Quarterback over so long leads many to conclude the same end result is taking place with Zach.

Here are the stats of  a MVP QB nominee in his rookie season.  12 games, 52.8% completion percentage, 2,074 yards, 10 TDs/12 INTs, 631 rushing yards, and 8 rush TDs

If he were drafted by the Jets, it's fair to conclude based on the failure of other draftees, that he'd be a bust. But he isn't. I only show this example to prove that not all rookie QBs develop at the same pace.

I have no clue whether Zach will boom or bust. But i am willing to be patient to stick to the rebuild game plan. That game plan revolves around Zach...for the time being. 

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1 minute ago, Joe W. Namath said:

JD has a full 6 years.  He aint going anywhere.  I believe he will kill it in this upcoming draft so he will be even more safe regardless of what Zach does.

If the Jets do poorly next year after all these picks and money to spend in FA he is headed right out the door 

2022 is huge for him. Don’t think he doesn’t know that 

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7 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

I think the team's piss-poor ability to draft, coach/nurture a Franchise Quarterback over so long leads many to conclude the same end result is taking place with Zach.

Here are the stats of  a MVP QB nominee in his rookie season.  12 games, 52.8% completion percentage, 2,074 yards, 10 TDs/12 INTs, 631 rushing yards, and 8 rush TDs

If he were drafted by the Jets, it's fair to conclude based on the failure of other draftees, that he'd be a bust. But he isn't. I only show this example to prove that not all rookie QBs develop at the same pace.

I have no clue whether Zach will boom or bust. But i am willing to be patient to stick to the rebuild game plan. That game plan revolves around Zach...for the time being. 

I agree with all this but I'd still like that 2022 plan to involve a credible QB2 should Wilson not show significant improvement over the remaining games. No one is saying throw him away -- at least, not me or the other "haters" I see post here -- but what is so triggering about a little competition?

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5 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

I think the team's piss-poor ability to draft, coach/nurture a Franchise Quarterback over so long leads many to conclude the same end result is taking place with Zach.

Here are the stats of  a MVP QB nominee in his rookie season.  12 games, 52.8% completion percentage, 2,074 yards, 10 TDs/12 INTs, 631 rushing yards, and 8 rush TDs

If he were drafted by the Jets, it's fair to conclude based on the failure of other draftees, that he'd be a bust. But he isn't. I only show this example to prove that not all rookie QBs develop at the same pace.

I have no clue whether Zach will boom or bust. But i am willing to be patient to stick to the rebuild game plan. That game plan revolves around Zach...for the time being. 

well, this is a new GM and a new CS - so if you assume it is just bad karma, nothing we do will work and the team will always suck. So, either this team has a chance and let's root for Zack or they don't and it just doesn't matter.

I think the biggest problem Zack has is that he is surrounded with equally young and inexperienced players playing on new schemes with new coaches. It is so hard to know for sure.

The biggest problem that some of the fans have is that they are either too optimistic from preseason, too critical (like all other QBs never have bad games or throws), or are too jaded. It sucks, because this is supposed to be fun and entertaining.

Here is hoping for the best :-)

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