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The All Things Zach Wilson Thread: MERGED


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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

I agree with all this but I'd still like that 2022 plan to involve a credible QB2 should Wilson not show significant improvement over the remaining games. No one is saying throw him away -- at least, not me or the other "haters" I see post here -- but what is so triggering about a little competition?

i agree. i'm hoping Saleh realizes too.

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Yep

I can't take it anymore so I went merge happy.

I am going to preface this by saying that I desperately want Zach Wilson to be good.  I take no pleasure in seeing him struggle. Coming into the season, the one thing I wanted to avoid was the ne

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4 minutes ago, jgb said:

I agree with all this but I'd still like that 2022 plan to involve a credible QB2 should Wilson not show significant improvement over the remaining games. No one is saying throw him away -- at least, not me or the other "haters" I see post here -- but what is so triggering about a little competition?

That's all I'm asking for for next season, let there be a QB competition at camp, don't simply anoint  the kid as starting QB when right now there are5 QB's on the Jets radar Wilson, Flacco, Josh Johnson, White and Morgan and as of right now every one of those guys have outplayed Wilson except James Morgan who hasn't played 

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9 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

How much time is relative to how you feel about Zach. I didn’t want to draft him at all and he’s shown exactly why, so I’ve seen enough. Some of you guys seem to want to suffer a couple more years of it 🤷🏼‍♂️


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It's the recent Jet way.   Look at all the years wasted on Sanchez, Geno and Darnold.   And now we go all in--again--on an unproven rookie who was suspect from the start?   History has not been kind to us.  Or maybe it's management's flawed decision-making process.

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7 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't think Allen looked this bad. 

Allen's numbers were comparable 6-7 starts into his career.

Allen finished his rookie year completing 52.8% of his passes and had a QBR of 49.8 (in 11 starts)

In his second year, Allen completed 58.8% of his passes and had a QBR of 49.4 (in 16 starts)

Currently, Wilson has completed 57.6% of his passes and has a QBR of 23.4 (in a little over 6 games played)

Of course, Allen's jump in year 3 is a historical outlier. 

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There was a time when it was extremely rare for a rookie QB to start in the NFL, and they were given usually a year or two to watch and learn, then a few years on the job to be evaluated. Things have obviously changed with the cap, but the NFL offenses and defenses are far more complicated and much different from NCAA offenses and defenses than they used to be. This means the leap from NCAA to NFL is even harder than it used to be, and QB's have less time to learn and prove it out. IMO, this is a big reason why so many QB's bust. Most highly selected QB's are coming to bad teams, which makes it even more difficult to learn on the job and look great. All thats to say, I think its hard to say how long is enough, each situation is different and context always needs to be included. Generally speaking if you draft a QB in the top 10, you probably are going to give them 2 years minimum to show something positive.

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27 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

I see the new line is Wilson will be josh Allen. Well I hope so. But from what I see, the comparison doesn’t fit. 
 

Maybe I’m wrong 

I don't think you can rate a rookie QB in 1 season.  I always said I would have sat him for a year, and let him learn, he came from freaking Utah to playing against Bellicheck and other actual NFL defenses.

I also would have had a real vet to run the team, like Foles.   I don't know if Zach will bust, I wish he was playing better right now, but he isn't.  

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1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

An opinion is fine provided it is in context. A Jags fan saying that Lawrence is a bust and they are ready to pick another QB in 2022 would be equally foolish. 

Actually I have said here a number of times we need Zach to work out. I have never advocated we dump him in 2022. What I asked is how much time do we need to give him to show improvement. He is teetering on Sam territory where he looks like he is regressing.  I mean look at this play

Two receivers were wide open on that play before he was flushed. One was actually never even covered. 

How long do we have to see these kind of plays. 

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1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

Actually I have said here a number of times we need Zach to work out. I have never advocated we dump him in 2022. What I asked is how much time do we need to give him to show improvement. He is teetering on Sam territory where he looks like he is regressing.  I mean look at this play

Two receivers were wide open on that play before he was flushed. One was actually never even covered. 

How long do we have to see these kind of plays. 

Yea this one was brutal. I looked at the wife asking if I missed something. I watched again. It was just another ball he throws into the ground 

Sam wasn’t even doing this sh*t 

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1 hour ago, elvispookie said:

People have no clue how the NFL is constructed.

Oh?!?

1 hour ago, elvispookie said:

The idea is draft a QB who is good, have the money to build around them, and you can afford to make your team better.

Ahhhh yes. I see now. 

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Wilson is going to get another couple seasons barring some meltdown or career limiting injury.

Wilson came out of a fairly different offensive system and he's being asked to operate differently as a QB in a different system. They aren't giving him a lot of familiar territory to get comfortable with and maintain his college habits. Add to that the problems earlier in the season with drops, poor blocking, poor offensive coaching, etc. and you would expect him to make a lot of mental mistakes. Obviously he's not coming along as quickly as any of us would like but players develop at different speeds and he's got to be given opportunity to develop. 

It's ridiculous to compare him to guys who have been in the league for years--especially when two of those guys have been in the league for a decade or more. He's more akin to the other early picks who are also having terrible years. Mac Jones is the real exception here but even that comparison is tenuous. Jones went from a college program surrounded by future NFL players playing a spread offense against other teams full of future NFL players (SEC) to an NFL team adopting spread techniques from Jones's former college team. Jones had the smallest leap from college to pro any QB could hope for. 

Jones might top out as a middling QB and Wilson might always be terrible but half a season is too early to even think about these questions. 

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18 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Actually I have said here a number of times we need Zach to work out. I have never advocated we dump him in 2022. What I asked is how much time do we need to give him to show improvement. He is teetering on Sam territory where he looks like he is regressing.  I mean look at this play

Two receivers were wide open on that play before he was flushed. One was actually never even covered. 

How long do we have to see these kind of plays. 

What exactly don you think his play is here on 3 and 12?  What’s the coverage he’s looking at?  Which of the 2 “wide open throws” are you wanting him to take here?

Here are some screen shots if you need.  

At Snap.  Then post snap. Then protection loss.

 

image.png

image.png

image.jpeg

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It's the recent Jet way.   Look at all the years wasted on Sanchez, Geno and Darnold.   And now we go all in--again--on an unproven rookie who was suspect from the start?   History has not been kind to us.  Or maybe it's management's flawed decision-making process.


It’s desperation in the fact there are not more than 15 people on the planet that can play the position well. With the exception of truly generational prospects (ie Payton Manning, not Trevor Lawrence or the other annual prospects people want to call generational), I think the QB position is mostly drafted with hopes and prayers more than anything else.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app
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27 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Can we give him more than 7 games? My God, rumbling already 

It’s actually been 6 1/4 games with the  last one being after a 4 week layoff and a gimpy knee. Declaring him a bust at this point is as ridiculous as declaring Mike White a hall of famer after 1 1/4 games. I know a message board is no place for sanity but the craziness is taking over. 

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4 hours ago, JerseyJoe67 said:

Not sticking up for Zack here but to be honest this team as a whole has not been showing any signs of growth in any capacity under this coaching staff.
 

Really? The defense improved this week. The offense has been scoring at a great clip and the running/blocking game has vastly improved. 

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52 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

What exactly don you think his play is here on 3 and 12?  What’s the coverage he’s looking at?  Which of the 2 “wide open throws” are you wanting him to take here?

Here are some screen shots if you need.  

At Snap.  Then post snap. Then protection loss.

 

image.png

image.png

image.jpeg

I'm sorry, are you telling me throwing the ball into the ground was the right play 

I really don't  see the point you are making. At the snap, the DB covering Moore drops deep and Moore runs a drag across the field and is wide open. Moore was the guy he ended up throwing to but he bounced it off the ground.

 

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I'm sorry, are you telling me throwing the ball into the ground was the right play 

I really don't  see the point you are making. At the snap, the DB covering Moore drops deep and Moore runs a drag across the field and is wide open. Moore was the guy he ended up throwing to but he bounced it off the ground.

 

It’s clear you don’t really understand what’s happening on this play.  Which is fine, but why pretend like you do?

What it boils down is you want him to throw immediately to his back side read on a route 10 yards short of the marker and then rely on Moore to beat at least 3 defenders to pick up the 1st down.  That’s my point.  Or in different terms, your argument here is ridiculous.

If your argument is that his throw is off the mark, then fine.  It was an inaccurate throw.  It’s about a 5% probability that Moore gets the first with a perfect throw, but 5% is better than zero.

But that doesn’t seem to be your argument in the post I quoted.  You seem to be upset that he “missed” open receivers or misread the defense, which is not remotely close the case.

Wilson has done lots that deserves criticism. However there are lots of examples, you in this thread as one, of people exaggerating what’s going.

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5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Wilson’s biggest problem is that Mike White and Josh Johnson came in and showed the world (and his own locker room) that the big issue strangling the Jets is Zach Wilson. 

Wait, a 4th year QB and a QB playing since 2009 didnt struggle like a rookie QB with 5 whole games under his belt?

I for one am shocked.  

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2 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

What exactly don you think his play is here on 3 and 12?  What’s the coverage he’s looking at?  Which of the 2 “wide open throws” are you wanting him to take here?

Here are some screen shots if you need.  

At Snap.  Then post snap. Then protection loss.

 

image.png

image.png

image.jpeg

What does this even mean.  Every single NFL QB, throws a few bad passes a game.  Hes a rookie, he'll get better but will still throw a couple of bad passes a game.  How many has he thrown in his 6 games, have a number?

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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Wait, a 4th year QB and a QB playing since 2009 didnt struggle like a rookie QB with 5 whole games under his belt?

I for one am shocked.  

If you were coaching that team or, say, were a receiver on that team, it might bother you a smidge that they’re playing the worst possible player at the QB position.

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Just now, T0mShane said:

If you were coaching that team or, say, were a receiver on that team, it might bother you a smidge that they’re playing the worst possible player at the QB position.

No.

Which WR is so good on the team that they should bitch about the QB?  Even Moore was invisible for the first part of the season.  Youre looking at skills and potential, not rookie numbers.  

 

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  • Maxman changed the title to The All Things Zach Wilson Thread: MERGED

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