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If both Jets picks are in the top 10


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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

You mean when he took one of the NFL's worst franchises to the Super Bowl?  lmao.  

That Card's team was pretty stacked then just made some horrible moves following that year which put them down the drain fast Kurt was not the type of QB to take that on his back he was a product of incredibly talented teams until he went to the Giants

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1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

That Card's team was pretty stacked then just made some horrible moves following that year which put them down the drain fast Kurt was not the type of QB to take that on his back he was a product of incredibly talented teams until he went to the Giants

Can you name the RB of that Arizona team?  Bet you can't.

In fact I bet you can't name the RB of basically all Super Bowl participants the last 10-15 years outside of Marshawn Lynch.

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5 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I know Davis was a sixth round pick I was just trying to show my opinion on the value of the position and that I would not hesitate if one of those types were available in round 1 . If the QB is so valuable and development early is so damn important the only real position that takes pressure off the young QB is the RB position and its not even close. So why then does the RB position not become even more of a value pick based on what he can do for the most Important pick in the game.

I think you're conflating "having a good running game" with "having an elite back." One of the benefits of this offense is that you can run the ball with anyone.

To your point, every guy you referenced did it 20-40 years ago though. Super Bowl winning teams almost never have elite backs.

Here are the guys who have won Super Bowls as RB1 in the last 10 years:

Damien Williams (UDFA, journeyman)

Leonard Fournette (top five pick -- who busted for that team and was picked up on a one year deal)

LaGarrette Blount (UDFA who somehow won three SBs with two teams)

Sony Michel (first round bust who has just traded for pennies on the dollar)

CJ Anderson (undrafted, currently coaching HS football)

Marshawn Lynch (Stud first round back -- the exception)

Ray Rice (Pro Bowl level 2nd round pick)

Amahd Bradshaw (7th round pick)

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You mean when he took one of the NFL's worst franchises to the Super Bowl?  lmao.  

Bet you can't name the RB of that AZ team.

Faulk was awesome.  And he was also brought in via trade, not drafted by the Rams.  So even in that instance, they didn't use a 1st round pick on him.

I forget the RB of that team but it was committee I think 

 

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2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I forget the RB of that team but it was committee I think 

Exactly.  lol.

Kurt Warner was not dependent on a RB to succeed.  Marshall Faulk was absolutely an essential piece to that SB team but even Faulk wasn't the 2nd most IMPORTANT piece.  

And given that that SB victory was over 2 decades ago you're going to need to find some more recent examples for me to prove your case that RB is the 2nd most important position on the offense.  The game completely changed ever since the Ty Law rule went into effect.

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1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I think you're conflating "having a good running game" with "having an elite back." One of the benefits of this offense is that you can run the ball with anyone.

To your point, every guy you referenced did it 20-40 years ago though. Super Bowl winning teams almost never have elite backs.

Here are the guys who have won Super Bowls as RB1 in the last 10 years:

Damien Williams (UDFA, journeyman)

Leonard Fournette (top five pick -- who busted for that team and was picked up on a one year deal)

LaGarrette Blount (UDFA who somehow won three SBs with two teams)

Sony Michel (first round bust who has just traded for pennies on the dollar)

CJ Anderson (undrafted, currently coaching HS football)

Marshawn Lynch (Stud first round back -- the exception)

Ray Rice (Pro Bowl level 2nd round pick)

Amahd Bradshaw (7th round pick)

Hey there are also the backs that got red hot in the playoffs and played well in the SB as well most of them as you mentioned were not all time greats by any means nor were they first rounders but they showed up at the right time. 

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Just now, Smashmouth said:

Hey there are also the backs that got red hot in the playoffs and played well in the SB as well most of them as you mentioned were not all time greats by any means nor were they first rounders but they showed up at the right time. 

Well okay... But this thread is about how we should use our top ten picks.

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1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

Hey there are also the backs that got red hot in the playoffs and played well in the SB as well most of them as you mentioned were not all time greats by any means nor were they first rounders but they showed up at the right time. 

And none of that justifies using a 1st on a RB or calling a RB the 2nd most important position on the O.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Can you name the RB of that Arizona team?  Bet you can't.

In fact I bet you can't name the RB of basically all Super Bowl participants the last 10-15 years outside of Marshawn Lynch.

Cards SB RB is a bad example as he is a HOFer and thus plenty likely remember.

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Exactly.  lol.

Kurt Warner was not dependent on a RB to succeed.  Marshall Faulk was absolutely an essential piece to that SB team but even Faulk wasn't the most IMPORTANT piece. 

And given that that SB victory was over 2 decades ago you're going to need to find some more recent examples for me.  The game completely changed ever since the Ty Law rule went into effect.

Dude do you remember the WR;s on that Cards team ? So Tim Hightower and Edggerin James were bums ? Bolden and Fitzgerald ? Yeah Kurt lifted all those guys up

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3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Well okay... But this thread is about how we should use our top ten picks.

Ok then why did you engage me on the subject :) 

The reason this went in the direction it did and exactly why this debate started is a RB worthy of a 1st round pick and If he's a stud can't miss type guy (just like all other positions are listed when they are chosen early ) do you pass on him if you have a need at RB like I believe the Jets do ? I say no and I respect the opinion of those who say yes you pass on the RB. That does not mean I wont try to make my point :)

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Yes, we’re going to have to agree to disagree because I’m all about the RB by committee. I would never use a premium pick on a RB when 5’10”-210lb dudes who run a 4.5 40 are endlessly available. The offense the Jets are running regularly makes stars out of late picks and UDFAs, like that Walter guy this week. 

RB by committee is when you get guys off the street and hope to find lighting in a bottle. That's why we have Ty Johnson and Tevin Coleman  and Drafted Michael Carter none of which is capable of gaining a damn yard on 4th and one. How many times early in the year did we get stopped on 3 and 4th and one because we really don't have a good RB ? Carter has proven to be a great receiving 3rd down type but hes not the guy for that situation nor are the other 2

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22 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Dude do you remember the WR;s on that Cards team ? So Tim Hightower and Edggerin James were bums ? Bolden and Fitzgerald ? Yeah Kurt lifted all those guys up

Yes, at that point in his career, Edgerrin James was a bum.  He had been washed since 2005 at that point.  His YPC from 2006-2008 was 3.4, 3.8, and 3.9, respectively.  And Hightower was a nice 3rd down back who bounced around to several other teams after being let go by AZ following 2010.

I fully agree the WR's were studs.  But your argument is RB is more important than WR, so how is that relevant?  I think WR's are far more important than RB's in today's NFL.  

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21 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

RB by committee is when you get guys off the street and hope to find lighting in a bottle. That's why we have Ty Johnson and Tevin Coleman  and Drafted Michael Carter none of which is capable of gaining a damn yard on 4th and one. How many times early in the year did we get stopped on 3 and 4th and one because we really don't have a good RB ? Carter has proven to be a great receiving 3rd down type but hes not the guy for that situation nor are the other 2

Michael Carter looks like he can be a very good running back in this league, not sure why your advocating taking a running back with a 1st round pick. There aren’t any running backs even being talked about as a 1st rounder in this draft let alone a top 10 pick! This whole conversation is ridiculous lol

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30 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

RB by committee is when you get guys off the street and hope to find lighting in a bottle. That's why we have Ty Johnson and Tevin Coleman  and Drafted Michael Carter none of which is capable of gaining a damn yard on 4th and one. How many times early in the year did we get stopped on 3 and 4th and one because we really don't have a good RB ? Carter has proven to be a great receiving 3rd down type but hes not the guy for that situation nor are the other 2

I think you build the OL to get you that yard. 

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13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, at that point in his career, Edgerrin James was a bum.  He had been washed since 2005 at that point.  His YPC from 2006-2008 was 3.4, 3.8, and 3.9, respectively.  And Hightower was a nice 3rd down back who bounced around to several other teams after being let go by AZ following 2010.

I fully agree the WR's were studs.  But your argument is RB is more important than WR, so how is that relevant?  I think WR's are far more important than RB's in today's NFL.  

Know what's cray cray?

  • 6 of the top career rushing leaders never won a ring.
  • 6 of the top career receiving leaders never won a ring.
  • 3 of the top career passing leaders never won a ring.

WRs are definitely more important than RBs but the older I get I think if you have a good QB, it's better to have a bunch of complementary receivers rather than allocate huge resources on a "true number 1." The best QBs are great because they spread the ball around and make everyone look better. They don't need that alpha to constantly bail them out. If just one of their options has their man beat, odds are good they will find them.

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It's difficult to predict who will be drafted without first predicting who/what will be signed in free agency.  I think Douglas will sign a TE just as Dalton Schultz, a guard such as Connor Williams and a #2 type WR.  Also I think he will sign a veteran type safety like Joyner again and a Jarod Davis type LB.

With that said I think he goes for Edge (Hutchinson or Karlaftis), OL (Linderbaum or Kenyon Green in round 1), TE (Wydermyer or Likely), LB (Brandon Smith, Christian Harris or Devin Lloyd), S (Jalon Catalon or Brandon Joseph), OT (Trevor Penning or Darien Kinnard) in rounds 2-3.

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1 hour ago, doitny said:

so would you take the #7 overall and a 2nd rd pick from a team for #4 overall? i bet not.

its #1 overall and there only walking away with 1 extra pick? no way.

we gave 3 2nd rd picks to move up to get Sam. not happing pal

Just a hypothetical.

And like i said, it's not #7 + our 2nd rder. It's #4 overall + our 2nd rder to move up 2 spots. 

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1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:

Michael Carter looks like he can be a very good running back in this league, not sure why your advocating taking a running back with a 1st round pick. There aren’t any running backs even being talked about as a 1st rounder in this draft let alone a top 10 pick! This whole conversation is ridiculous lol

Michael Carter is a 3rd down back not a full time RB 3.5 yards per carry does not = full time RB and this was not just about this year or what's available this year I never said I wanted to force a pick on a RB Just because we needed one.

Don't make sh*t up if you have not read the entire discussion, what I posted or what I actually meant, by trying to fill holes on this roster. My entire argument was against the so called premium positions as laid out by people who cover the draft who always seem to be wrong anyway. My argument is to draft players  based on being really good football players not just force picked due to so called "premium positions" RB happens to be one of those positions people don't put much merit in and I'm calling bullsh*t on that theory. So get your facts straight on the discussion before you make comments about what someone might be saying.

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1 hour ago, slats said:

I think you build the OL to get you that yard. 

Our OL is 3/4 of the way built all of them have been playing well except the RG position we do not have a short yardage back on this football team and if you guys and the guys that repped your post can't see that then I'm really wasting my time here.

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1 hour ago, BettyBoop said:

It's difficult to predict who will be drafted without first predicting who/what will be signed in free agency.  I think Douglas will sign a TE just as Dalton Schultz, a guard such as Connor Williams and a #2 type WR.  Also I think he will sign a veteran type safety like Joyner again and a Jarod Davis type LB.

With that said I think he goes for Edge (Hutchinson or Karlaftis), OL (Linderbaum or Kenyon Green in round 1), TE (Wydermyer or Likely), LB (Brandon Smith, Christian Harris or Devin Lloyd), S (Jalon Catalon or Brandon Joseph), OT (Trevor Penning or Darien Kinnard) in rounds 2-3.

Betty what FA or trade QB will back up Zach next year?

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29 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Our OL is 3/4 of the way built all of them have been playing well except the RG position we do not have a short yardage back on this football team and if you guys and the guys that repped your post can't see that then I'm really wasting my time here.

You don’t spend a first round pick on a short yardage back, though. You build the line and hand it to your UDFA, 240lb FB. 

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26 minutes ago, slats said:

You don’t spend a first round pick on a short yardage back, though. You build the line and hand it to your UDFA, 240lb FB. 

Agreed. The OL is probably the 2nd most important part of the O, behind the QB.\

You can argue WR or RB, but neither of them are used in every play

You're never going to hear 'Bob the WR has never missed a snap', but you might hear that for George the Guard

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2 hours ago, Hex said:

Agreed. The OL is probably the 2nd most important part of the O, behind the QB.\

You can argue WR or RB, but neither of them are used in every play

You're never going to hear 'Bob the WR has never missed a snap', but you might hear that for George the Guard

Jets have two first rounders on the OL... how many does Zach need to not look terrible, exactly?

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2 hours ago, slats said:

You don’t spend a first round pick on a short yardage back, though. You build the line and hand it to your UDFA, 240lb FB. 

The only exception in the last 60 years:

NFL legend Earl Campbell still hits hard, compares current NFL to wrestling

Earl was worth spending a high first-round pick on.  Still would be.  But he is probably the entire list.

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6 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I think BPA generally does not factor into QB discussion because of the special nature of that position. Or at least that's always how I've looked at BPA. 

Once you introduce an element of need, it's no longer BPA in my humble opinion. I don't believe in "modified BPA" just like you can't be modified pregnant. Either you are taking the top guy on your board, or other factors -- such as scheme and need -- are part of your analysis.

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