Zach’s “breakout” game

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I read on here how Diontae Johnson had 5 drops in one prime time game.  A week or two later Collingsworth was going on and on about how Johnson had cleaned up his drop issues and only had one on the season.  I don't think it is an "official" stat and the people tracking it seem to be all over the map.  Every ball you can get your hand on and don't bring in is not a drop.  In that 2nd half saw plenty of balls that were not caught after hitting a receiver that were more on Wilson than the receiver.  I don't know what you people saw, but I doubt I'd care.

FWIW, I prefer the old QB rating to QBR.  Especially for a kid like Wilson.  Doesn't QBR have some inflated value on clutch/important moments?  That's nice, but the Jets have had none.  I just want him to complete passes for yards, 1st downs and TDs.  If he starts doing that the rest will come.

I also prefer the old QB rating. One large benefit is the formula is known while QBR is proprietary and while (IIRC) ESPN has divulged the components that go into it, I don't think they've shared the specific formula (which, I think they continue to tweak).

[JustInFudge]

Just now, slimjasi said:

Right. Looks like a timing issue. Looked to me like Moore stopped and Wilson expected him to keep moving. Either way, I think that is a catch that should be made. Hit him in the hands. 

I think we're getting a little too specific and working a bit too hard on where to place the blame.  All of this can be true at the same time; if Zach threw a better ball, the WR wouldnt have to lay out to make a high level of difficulty type catch and, while the QB didnt make a great throw, maybe the WR could have made the catch. 

Probably the best answer is, everyone needs to be a little bit better.

 

 

[ScarletKnight89]

He played well in the game. It's definitely a big step forward. 

The kid has played 7.5 games. He's on a team that although is a lot better than they were a year ago, still isn't good.

The lack of patience for the QB from some amazes me. I think it just ties into the Jets being so bad for so long but still. 

There were games this year where he deserved strong criticism. Yesterday was not one of them. 

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

And he was 5 of 7 on the last meaningless drive w/ under 2 minutes.   So, he was 6 for 17 w/ a pick and no scores when they absolutely had to have answer. Strange that people are going these distances to defend his 2nd half.  He was terrible but whatevs, at least we saw a good first half and I think he's just pressing when he knows it's on him to answer.  He's just not ready for that type of pressure, clearly and I'm sure in the back of his mind he knows that he has to score because his D cant stop a nose-bleed.

 

 

 

Super weird. I think most everyone is generally pleased with Zach’s improvement yesterday, but now The Cult of Zach is mad that you point out he was underwhelming in the second half. They only want the “good” throws to count and the bad throws to be the fault of anyone else. 

[Chrebetfan80]

3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I think the WR's are fine.  Crowder, Davis, Cole - have all had great careers with sh*tty QB's.  Not sure if it's Zach, the scheme or what but I really dont think weaponz are an excuse.  I think they definitely need a receiving threat at TE and maybe another WR incase Mims never comes around but I dont think the issues were seeing is because of a lack of skills players.  Plenty of teams have a lot less and are doing a lot more.  Remember, this offense for 4 weeks while Zach was out, led the NFL in yards.

If everyone is healthy and playing I think we can be pretty decent on the outside, but no where near as explosive as youd want.  Yesterday was an example of that to me.  Cole out, Davis hobbled then out. The only guy capable of being consistently involved was moore for the most part.  

My reasoning for wanting 1-2 WR's is because 1. we need an upgrade in talent overall,  but 2. Crowder is gone next year,  possibly Cole too.  IF mims doesnt turn it around, who are you left with just Moore and Davis on the outside.  

[Ex-Rex]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

His accuracy is very bad, and he came absolutely unspooled in the second half once the Eagles defense woke up, but this was definitely progress.

He throws 100 mph with guys 10 feet away. Has no touch on the ball and his strength was supposed to be his ability to make plays 'off script'. Where is that? Darnold had more escapability than Wilson has shown. No rollouts and throws on the run, no take the ball down and run....I don't see much "progress" and in fact, I think he is a bust.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I think we're getting a little too specific and working a bit too hard on where to place the blame.  All of this can be true at the same time; if Zach threw a better ball, the WR wouldnt have to lay out to make a high level of difficulty type catch and, while the QB didnt make a great throw, maybe the WR could have made the catch. 

Probably the best answer is, everyone needs to be a little bit better.

 

 

IMO, it’s like a basketball team that has a good PG and everyone’s shooting percentage mysteriously goes up, but when they have a bad PG, nobody can shoot the ball all of a sudden.  

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Wouldn't say Davis has had "a great career" given his physical talent. The Jets would probably at least consider replacing him in the offseason if not for that contract. 

Great, good, average, whatever, semantics but 65 for 984 and 5 is what he did last year with Tenn.  That's ******* elite for the Jets.  lol

[slimjasi]

Just now, JiFapono said:

Great, good, average, whatever, semantics but 65 for 984 and 5 is what he did last year with Tenn.  That's ******* elite for the Jets.  lol

Yeah, he's still been a huge disappointment and not worth that contract, currently. It's not semantics, lol. 

He also had another terrible drop yesterday. 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

He throws 100 mph with guys 10 feet away. Has no touch on the ball and his strength was supposed to be his ability to make plays 'off script'. Where is that? Darnold had more escapability than Wilson has shown. No rollouts and throws on the run, no take the ball down and run....I don't see much "progress" and in fact, I think he is a bust.

I know they talked about this during the game that Zach felt like the knee brace was slowing him down, but the talk of Wilson being a 4.5 athlete seems comical. If he runs a 4.7, I’m Willie Gault.

[TheClashFan]

Good (but not great) first half.  Bad second half. 

Lots of accuracy and touch issues that he's got to work on, and maybe also not being "late" on his throws, which might have a lot to do with the accuracy issues, esp. when he throws a bit behind the receiver. He is still probably struggling with the speed of the game.  He probably does press when his team is behind by two scores or more, which it almost always is, so he's got to work on relaxing.

The Eagles likely made some nice halftime adjustments that confused Zach and maybe the OC.  Also, sitting so long in the 3rd quarter might have made the whole offense a bit "cold."

I'm not surprised that he's getting more drops than White.  Zach has a much stronger arm...maybe even they still need to adjust to his velocity, but also he needs to hit them in stride more and throw shorter balls with more touch.

Keep playing him as long as he stays healthy and see where he's at at the end of the season.

[JustInFudge]

Just now, slimjasi said:

Yeah, he's still been a huge disappointment and not worth that contract, currently. It's not semantics, lol. 

He also had another terrible drop yesterday. 

When you're arguing if I used the right word and if Great is the right description?  ummmm, never mind whatever  

I'm not saying he's the guy, he's can clearly be upgraded but he was everyone's favorite player and wow look at the chemistry with Zach at the beginning of the season and now he's why Zach sucks?  no.

 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, Rhg1084 said:

Fant and McGovern have both played very well, not sure why you’re worried about RT/LT or C. 

theres a small group who are turning into a cult for drafting that Center or Tackle with one of our 1st rd picks.

even though every week its our defense who cant stop nobody and is costing us games not the OL.

[BurnleyJet]

He’s improving I’m willing to give him more time. 

[jgb]

31 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

When you're arguing if I used the right word and if Great is the right description?  ummmm, never mind whatever  

I'm not saying he's the guy, he's can clearly be upgraded but he was everyone's favorite player and wow look at the chemistry with Zach at the beginning of the season and now he's why Zach sucks?  no.

 

Last year it was no weaponz. This year it's Corey Davis not being a "true #1" is why Wilson sucks.

JD brought in a decent enough WR2 who is actually above his career avg. in YPG this season (right at average if we take out his rookie year) and treading 2x his highest TDs ever. He's exactly who we thought he was when we brought him in and is on a salary that befits that.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

When you're arguing if I used the right word and if Great is the right description?  ummmm, never mind whatever  

I'm not saying he's the guy, he's can clearly be upgraded but he was everyone's favorite player and wow look at the chemistry with Zach at the beginning of the season and now he's why Zach sucks?  no.

 

"great" is clearly not the right description. lol

I never said anything about the bolded. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yeah, he's still been a huge disappointment and not worth that contract, currently. It's not semantics, lol. 

He also had another terrible drop yesterday. 

It's interesting that you (and many others) have vastly less patience with a semi-proven guy (Davis) who has a vastly better pro-production resume than Zach. 

Davis gets no pass on his injuries or his drops at all, seems many here think he's unsalvageable. 

Why does the "patience" meme Zach and Saleh and Mims get not also apply to Davis, who is equally new in this system and on this team and with this QB, the same way it applies to Wilson?  Maybe Davis and the other receivers need time to adjust to Zach's ballistic ducks, short-throws and behind them throws too?  Also interesting that the WR's get no credit for the balls they've saved from INT's and incompletions because Zach was inaccurate, and there have been quite a few of those too.

I just find the selective nature of the "patience" meme very interesting, because it looks like it's primarily about defending Zach, not about actually having patience for the team as a whole to sort itself out.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

He’s improving I’m willing to give him more time. 

More than 7 games for a rookie QB? I don't know, that seems awfully forgiving. 

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

He’s improving I’m willing to give him more time. 

Would anything change if you weren't? 

[BurnleyJet]

Just now, Warfish said:

Would anything change if you weren't? 

Yes me watching games.

[TuscanyTile2]

I know it's just 1 pass and it was completed (for a 1st down) but it really bugs me that Zach isn't hitting guys in stride on passes like these.  The RB almost fell down.

[Hal N of Provo]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Super weird. I think most everyone is generally pleased with Zach’s improvement yesterday, but now The Cult of Zach is mad that you point out he was underwhelming in the second half. They only want the “good” throws to count and the bad throws to be the fault of anyone else. 

Sarah mclachlan should automatically play in the background as anyone reads this.  Heartbreaking. 

@JiFapono made lots of good points and has been fair from everything I’ve read.  I can’t think of anything that hasn’t sounded like reasonable postgame views.  
 

That is unless you want me to stop pretending to have missed the trolling of @Ex-Rex

[slimjasi]

Just now, Warfish said:

It's interesting that you (and many others) have vastly less patience with a semi-proven guy (Davis) who has a vastly better pro-production resume than Zach. 

Is it?

Wilson has played 7 complete games in the NFL. You are arguing we should have more patience with a guy who was drafted in 2017? Wilson was 18 years old when Corey Davis came into the league.

 I'm genuinely fascinated by this perspective. 

[BurnleyJet]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

More than 7 games for a rookie QB? I don't know, that seems awfully forgiving. 

The snark factor is why I’ve been spending less time on this board. It’s becoming unreadable.

[sciond]

def better but no breakout

coaching is a big challenge here for him to overcome

[rtnelson]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Super weird. I think most everyone is generally pleased with Zach’s improvement yesterday, but now The Cult of Zach is mad that you point out he was underwhelming in the second half. They only want the “good” throws to count and the bad throws to be the fault of anyone else. 

Sort of.  There's a lot of people just talking past each other.

Someone says he's improved, another retorts with how he didn't have a great 2nd half.

Someone says he wasn't good in the 2nd half, another retorts with he looked a lot better especially in the first half.

I think for the most part, there's people who want to focus on the negative against people that want to focus on the positive and vise versa.

All in all, the kid played better than he was previously, but there's a lot more work to do.

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Sarah mclachlan should automatically play in the background as anyone reads this.  Heartbreaking. 

@JiFapono made lots of good points and has been fair from everything I’ve read.  I can’t think of anything that hasn’t sounded like reasonable postgame views.  
 

That is unless you want me to stop pretending to have missed the trolling of @Ex-Rex

1. Disgusting slurp job of @JiFapono is disgusting, although you nailed it with his favorite musical artist Sarah McLachlan  

2. You’re from Utah and presumably know Wilson’s history. He started slow at BYU and it was reasonable to expect him to struggle here, and possibly for multiple years. The biggest criticism I have of the Wilson pick is that they started him immediately, which was dumb. 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

All in all, the kid played better than he was previously, but there's a lot more work to do.

Yeah, for sure. I think 99% of Jets fans agree with this sentiment today.

[Rhg1084]

16 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I know it's just 1 pass and it was completed (for a 1st down) but it really bugs me that Zach isn't hitting guys in stride on passes like these.  The RB almost fell down.

There was another swing pass to Moore that he hit him perfectly in stride 

[slimjasi]

10 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

Sort of.  There's a lot of people just talking past each other.

Someone says he's improved, another retorts with how he didn't have a great 2nd half.

Someone says he wasn't good in the 2nd half, another retorts with he looked a lot better especially in the first half.

I think for the most part, there's people who want to focus on the negative against people that want to focus on the positive and vise versa.

All in all, the kid played better than he was previously, but there's a lot more work to do.

Yes, good post

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

We are now rooting for Wilson to become Mac Jones...

Actually not really , Jones is a system QB with physical limitations. It just happens that he's a great system for his skillset. 

Wilson has all the tools to become a great QB , he just needs to evolve with more reps. 

[Rhg1084]

16 minutes ago, sciond said:

def better but no breakout

coaching is a big challenge here for him to overcome

Disagree, Lafleur has been great

[ZachEY]

21 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I know it's just 1 pass and it was completed (for a 1st down) but it really bugs me that Zach isn't hitting guys in stride on passes like these.  The RB almost fell down.

He almost never puts the ball exactly where it needs to be.  It’s my #1 concern about him.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

People slammed the Pats for taking "game manager" Jones.  And he's good.  Seems like we're looking for Wilson to show similar skills- quick reads, get the ball out,  be accurate,  etc.

That's because he has the other tools that Mac Jones doesn't have and can never.

If ZW can play the short game like Mac Jones or close to his level - then he's a top 5 NFL QB.

Whether he does that or not is still a big question.

[Hex]

21 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I know it's just 1 pass and it was completed (for a 1st down) but it really bugs me that Zach isn't hitting guys in stride on passes like these.  The RB almost fell down.

At least he's improved from last week, it shows that he can progress, and suggests a nice finish to the year, which I think we can all agree is the on thing we need