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Trevor Lawrence production


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31 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Eh..

One guy has nothing to do with the other.  No need to make excuses for Trevor just like there isn't for Zach.

IMHO, these types of comparisons are entirely pointless.  

They were drafted #1 and #2. They will forever be compared for that alone whether you like it or not. 

Right now both guys are trash but Lawrence is in a considerably worse situation. I don't think the Jags offence could be run effectively by a practice squad player as the Jets offence has been. 

It is absolutely laughable for the very same posters who are desperately defending Wilson to be knocking Trevor Lawrence. 

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5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Now do what with Justin Fields?  I'm confused.  I didnt start this thread, I'm just laughing at the idea that the AFJF says that we hate our players for no reason and just say they suck with no context.  That's one of the most laughable comments I've ever heard.  We had threads fawning over Sam Darnold at the beginnig of the season.   The Wilson family couldnt find as many excuses to defend Zach's poor play than this board.  lol  

My real take on this "subject" is who gives a **** what TL or Fields or Jones is doing?  I care about the NY Jets and Zach Wilson.  I couldnt give 2 sh*ts about those other guys or their teams or their careers.  And let's remember, I was the first one to laugh at the idea of TL being a generational talent.

 

My bad then. It sounded like you were putting EVERY blame on the qb, when there are varied reasons why he has "sucked" to date. It is not that easy. Just as it is for Justin Fields as well, whom you have given long leash. All is well.

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4 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

They were drafted #1 and #2. They will forever be compared for that alone whether you like it or not. 

Right now both guys are trash but Lawrence is in a considerably worse situation. I don't think the Jags offence could be run effectively by a practice squad player as the Jets offence has been. 

It is absolutely laughable for the very same posters who are desperately defending Wilson to be knocking Trevor Lawrence. 

They are both in bad situations. And it is ok not to make career defining pronouncements at this stage on either. 

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3 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Boy we’re really just gonna start throwing stones? One decent half and straight to mockery.

Well hopefully if we are throwing stones they’re to better receivers than Laquan Treadwell and Tavon Austin. Lawrence has the worst group in the league around him. By a lot. 

 

Funny thing is heading into the season I was told repeatedly that the Jags had the better WR unit, better running game etc.  Shenault and Jones etc 

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1 hour ago, heymangold said:

Confused as to what your point is.  Jets fans have some weird fascination with the patriots.  There’s a bunch of you guys they seem like you should just become patriot fans, make it easier for yourselves.

the patriots WR group is light years better then the jags and jets groups. Just go look at the stats. The pats also posses the greatest HC and OC IN the history of the sport. Makes a ton of difference.

Well it was stated that he had the worst receivers in football

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7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

My bad then. It sounded like you were putting EVERY blame on the qb, when there are varied reasons why he has "sucked" to date. It is not that easy. Just as it is for Justin Fields as well, whom you have given long leash. All is well.

What long leash?  lmfao.  I'm not his coach, I dont make decisions on his playing time.   I dont care what he does or doesnt do or what his career turns into, he's not the QB of my favorite team.  I care about Zach Wilson.

I watched Justin Fields ball out on MNF, made a comment about because someone tagged me and said he's been playing well and had a few good games.  I just told everyone that Zach Wilson looked like a different player on Sunday and that we should be encouraged by this progress. 

Idk, seems like I'm a pretty level headed fan but if you want to join the legions of posters who make sh*t up, feel free.

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Just now, JiFapono said:

What long leash?  lmfao.  I'm not his coach, I dont make decisions on his playing time.   I dont care what he does or doesnt do or what his career turns into, he's not the QB of my favorite team.  I care about Zach Wilson.

I watched Justin Fields ball out on MNF, made a comment about because someone tagged me and said he's been playing well and had a few good games.  I just told everyone that Zach Wilson looked like a different player on Sunday and that we should be encouraged by this progress. 

Idk, seems like I'm a pretty level headed fan but if you want to join the legions of posters who make sh*t up, feel free.

Jif, relax. It was not a personal attack. We can all laugh at ourselves a little bit and and not take ourselves seriously. It is a fan site talking about football. If I misconstrued your comment, my bad. I like you. I really do. All is good.

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4 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Boy we’re really just gonna start throwing stones? One decent half and straight to mockery.

Well hopefully if we are throwing stones they’re to better receivers than Laquan Treadwell and Tavon Austin. Lawrence has the worst group in the league around him. By a lot. 

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa - I thought we weren't allowed to make excuses for rookie QBs?

 

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The early successes of guys like Herbert, mahomes, and mac and have given fans of other franchises unrealistic expectations for first year QBs. The fact of the matter is those 3 guys went to stacked teams. Mac jones is on a great team. Herbert and mahomes also were put in amazing situations. TL, Wilson, and fields are on bad teams. On top of having to learn the game, they also have to shoulder the load and don’t have a whole lot around them to keep games competitive. Mac jones and the pats offense can do absolutely nothing for 5 straight drives and they’ll still be in the game. Zach Wilson and TL on the other hand, if they don’t put up points in the same scenario, they are likely down multiple scores and the game can be out of reach quickly. This is a big reason why teams like the jets are constantly shuffling around qb’s while other franchises seemingly find productive qbs more often. The added pressures of big prospects on bad teams are overlooked when it comes to development.

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2 hours ago, TheMo said:

But they both have been very bad. Hard to justify a victory lap at this point if you ask me. 

They are on teams that are bad. Zach had 3 TDs in the first half last week. If that's bad sign me up. People just love to pile on Zach. He's played 7 games at the toughest position in football. The guy is going to be a star in this league and when his is people on this board will still kill him, despite the fact we haven't had a star QB since before many posters were born.

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5 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Boy we’re really just gonna start throwing stones? One decent half and straight to mockery.

Well hopefully if we are throwing stones they’re to better receivers than Laquan Treadwell and Tavon Austin. Lawrence has the worst group in the league around him. By a lot. 

 

He needs weaponz. Where have we heard this before?

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5 hours ago, oatmeal said:

The comical narrative around Lawrence during the draft process: 

-Generational can’t miss prospect, who can come in and make an instant impact on your franchise, Day one starter. m

Now the national media 🤡’s are doing exactly what they did with their last crowned golden boy Sam Darnold - he can do no wrong and it’s everyone else’s fault.

 

And for all you Zach haters who complain about his accuracy, please go take a look at any Lawrence performance and tell me he is better than Zach is right now. 
 

Lawerene actually looks like the worst of the rookie 1st round QBs, the irony 🤣😂

Lawrence (#1 Overall) -- 12 games, 12 starts - 247 for 426 (58.0%), 2,514 Yards, 9 TD, 10 INT, 209.5 YPG, 72.3 Rate

Wilson (#2 Overall) -- 8 games, 8 Starts - 141 for 243 (58.0%), 1,539 Yards, 6 TD, 11 INT, 192.4 YPG, 66.2 Rate

Lance (#3 Overall) -- 5 games, 1 Start - 25 for 48 (52.1%), 354 Yards, 3 TD, 1 INT, 70.8 YPG, 88.4 Rate

Fields (#11 Overall) -- 10 games, 8 starts - 115 for 198 (58.1%), 1,361 Yards, 4 TD, 8 INT, 136.1 YPG, 69.0 Rate

Jones (#15 Overall) -- 12 games, 12 starts - 268 for 381 (70.3%), 2,850 Yards, 16 TD, 8 INT, 237.5 YPG, 97.1 Rate

Trask (#64 Overall) -- Has Not Played

Mond (#66 Overall) -- Has Not Played

Mills (#67 Overall) -- 8 Games, 6 Starts - 146 for 223 (65.5%), 1,406 Yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 175.8 YPG, 78.4 Rate

--------------------

Lawrence is better than Zach so far. 

Better TD:INT ratio.  Better availability (no injuries).  Better YPG (not by a ton).  Better QB Rate (not by a ton).

Neither looks like a great pick so far.  And both have poor, sub-par completion percentage so far.

But no, Lawrence does not "look like the worst of the rookie 1st round QB's". 

That would be Fields at current.  Followed by Wilson. Then close behind Lawrence.  With Jones the best so far.

Lance is excluded really due to low-play time so far, but a 52% comp. rate is atrocious.

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9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Lawrence (#1 Overall) -- 12 games, 12 starts - 247 for 426 (58.0%), 2,514 Yards, 9 TD, 10 INT, 209.5 YPG, 72.3 Rate

Wilson (#2 Overall) -- 8 games, 8 Starts - 141 for 243 (58.0%), 1,539 Yards, 6 TD, 11 INT, 192.4 YPG, 66.2 Rate

Lance (#3 Overall) -- 5 games, 1 Start - 25 for 48 (52.1%), 354 Yards, 3 TD, 1 INT, 70.8 YPG, 88.4 Rate

Fields (#11 Overall) -- 10 games, 8 starts - 115 for 198 (58.1%), 1,361 Yards, 4 TD, 8 INT, 136.1 YPG, 69.0 Rate

Jones (#15 Overall) -- 12 games, 12 starts - 268 for 381 (70.3%), 2,850 Yards, 16 TD, 8 INT, 237.5 YPG, 97.1 Rate

Trask (#64 Overall) -- Has Not Played

Mond (#66 Overall) -- Has Not Played

Mills (#67 Overall) -- 8 Games, 6 Starts - 146 for 223 (65.5%), 1,406 Yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 175.8 YPG, 78.4 Rate

--------------------

Lawrence is better than Zach so far. 

Better TD:INT ratio.  Better availability (no injuries).  Better YPG (not by a ton).  Better QB Rate (not by a ton).

Neither looks like a great pick so far.  And both have poor, sub-par completion percentage so far.

But no, Lawrence does not "look like the worst of the rookie 1st round QB's". 

That would be Fields at current.  Followed by Wilson. Then close behind Lawrence.  With Jones the best so far.

Lance is excluded really due to low-play time so far, but a 52% comp. rate is atrocious.

If you are the type of person to look at stats and that tells you everything that would make this true but if you have watched all these rookie QBs play it’s clear as day Lawrence is the worst. Fields and Lance the worst when they have barely played? Comical tbh

 

The stats don’t show Trevors terrible pocket presence, ball placement, and overall terrible  football IQ. 
 

Oh and only Mac, Zach and Trevor should be included in this debate of the first round Qbs, Lance and Justin haven’t played enough IMO

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The only way for a rookie qb to make an impact right away on a bad team is if he's vety mobile and can get extend drives with his feet. That why Josh Allen in his first year, though super raw, made an impact early. But if you aren't mobile, you're a Josh Rose type, you camt overcome your lousy offensive line and lack of weapons. When a team is bad, you need someone who can improvise. Look at these mobile qbs succeeding.. Lamar, the guy in Philly, the little guy on Arizona. They succeed because they can make something out of nothing. 

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19 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

If you are the type of person to look at stats and that tells you everything that would make this true but if you have watched all these rookie QBs play it’s clear as day Lawrence is the worst. Fields and Lance the worst when they have barely played? Comical tbh

I trust stats more than I trust your eye test.

Homer bias is just too strong for most of you.

Quote

The stats don’t show Trevors terrible pocket presence, ball placement, and overall terrible  football IQ. 

Because Wilson is good at those things so far? :lol:

Ultimately, both Wilson and Lawrence are disappointing to-date.  Both will get two more years, minimum.

I'm not wasting time debating the idea that one flavor of sh*t is better than another now, lol.

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2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

What long leash?  lmfao.  I'm not his coach, I dont make decisions on his playing time.   I dont care what he does or doesnt do or what his career turns into, he's not the QB of my favorite team.  I care about Zach Wilson.

I watched Justin Fields ball out on MNF, made a comment about because someone tagged me and said he's been playing well and had a few good games.  I just told everyone that Zach Wilson looked like a different player on Sunday and that we should be encouraged by this progress. 

Idk, seems like I'm a pretty level headed fan but if you want to join the legions of posters who make sh*t up, feel free.

get outta here you crazy psycho lunatic

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7 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

Zach has played better than Trevor as of late.  For the season as a whole they are around the same which is bottom of the league QB's.  

Right. This is very fair. 

The good news for Lawrence is he gets to play the Jets defense before the season is up, so he has at least one shining moment coming up. 

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I trust stats more than I trust your eye test.

Homer bias is just too strong for most of you.

Because Wilson is good at those things so far? :lol:

Ultimately, both Wilson and Lawrence are disappointing to-date.  Both will get two more years, minimum.

I'm not wasting time debating the idea that one flavor of sh*t is better than another now, lol.

It’s no debate Zach pocket presence, ball placement and overall football IQ is >>>> Trevor Lawrence.

I’m sorry if saying good things about Zach triggers but this is  just the reality at the moment 

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1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

It’s no debate Zach pocket presence, ball placement and overall football IQ is >>>> Trevor Lawrence.

I’m sorry if saying good things about Zach triggers but this is  just the reality at the moment 

Not triggered at all.  

In terms of "ball placement":

Zach Wilson is ranked 31st with a Bad Throw % of 23.0%

Lawrence is ranked 32nd with a Bad Throw % of 23.9%

In terms of "pocket presence":

Both Wilson and Lawrence have the same average-time-in-pocket, 2.4 seconds.

Zack Wilson has been sacked 25 times.

Lawrence has been sacked 22 times.

As for "Football IQ", that isn't a thing that can be measured individually, and is certainly not something a Fan, watching TV, is going to provide an accurate analysis of without citing, again, a number of statistics and trying to paint them into "football IQ".  

I'm not seeing the big difference you are, clearly.  Well, one big difference is Zack, like Darnold before him, missed time his rookie year and seems like he could be fragile over time.  Lawrence hasn't missed time.  

Beyond that, both are crap so far, generally, and both need to show major improvement.

And I say all this as a guy who didn't want either of them in this draft.  I have no favorite amongst these two that I need to defend.

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6 hours ago, JoeDouglasFart said:

Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson are both sucking during their rookie year...wow!

It is situational for both of them.  And it is situational for Mac Jones as well

If Wilson and or Lawrence was with the Pats, they would both be looking a lot better.  

If Mac Jones was with the Jets or Jags, he'd be a disaster.  Both Wilson and Lawrence have much stronger physical skill sets than Mac Jones.  

Jones is a system cog in a *VERY* good system.

Wilson and Lawrence are both potentially excellent professional QB's that went to respective graveyards. 

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There’s a strong correlation between draft position and career

getting drafted in the top 3 is basically a death sentence unless a team had a fluky year like the colts. 
 

put Lawrence or Wilson on the chiefs or patriots or raven’s and it’s a different conversation 

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