ZW All-22 Breakdown

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The play I am referring to is at the 7 minute  mark of the video. Was the Eagle player Claude Raines because I don't  see anyone anywhere near Moore except the guy that was playing man on him. 

Same here.  Moore has a defender on his right, towards the center of the field and Zach throws towards Moores left, away from coverage and the defender.  I would say that was where Moore should have turned or at least was the right place to throw to

[Jet Nut]

Just now, More Cowbell said:

Yes, our D couldn't get off the field but it was compounded by the O doing absolutely  nothing when the ball was in their possession and putting them right back out there.  That is on the O. My point is, we got the ball back right after every Eagles possession  and did nothing for an entire half. It doesn't  matter how long the Eagles possess the ball. That doesn't  mean our O has to do nothing when we do get it. 

And my point is 3 and outs happen all the time.  Then the defense all told let the Eagles control the ball and clock for what 13 min?  To me is on the D, they dont get a pass on 13 minutes of incompetency because of a 3 and out

[More Cowbell]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Same here.  Moore has a defender on his right, towards the center of the field and Zach throws towards Moores left, away from coverage and the defender.  I would say that was where Moore should have turned or at least was the right place to throw to

If there was a defender to his right, then the guy would have no impact no matter where More went

[More Cowbell]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

And my point is 3 and outs happen all the time.  Then the defense all told let the Eagles control the ball and clock for what 13 min?  To me is on the D, they dont get a pass on 13 minutes of incompetency because of a 3 and out

You know what, I am not even talking about the 3 and out. What I am talking about is the Jets inability  to do anything  offensively  for an entire half. This TOP argument means nothing if the O can move the ball. The Jets possess the ball after the Eagle did. If they can't  do anything with it, that is on the O. 

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

If there was a defender to his right, then the guy would have no impact no matter where More went

What?

You really would want Moore to run towards coverage and not away, where there was a large open area to work instead?  

[rldev]

2 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

lol what?

I was completely done with Darnold. I was even on board with Zach. The only one I didn’t want was Justin Fields.

Why do you guys hate reality?

 

There's a theory, but I won't go there.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

You know what, I am not even talking about the 3 and out. What I am talking about is the Jets inability  to do anything  offensively  for an entire half. This TOP argument means nothing if the O can move the ball. The Jets possess the ball after the Eagle did. If they can't  do anything with it, that is on the O. 

They didnt have the ball for an entire half.  The Eagles had the ball for almost the entire 3rd Q.  

[Gastineau Lives]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Steve Young was on Michael Kay yesterday and they were asking him about Lamar Jackson and the state of QB play. Unprompted, Young says that DeShaun Watson is the one guy in football who he thinks can challenge for becoming the best player of all time. Naturally, he qualified it by saying Watson has his off the field issues to deal with first, but he’s the one player with all the requisite skills to be the GOAT. 

I said he was the best qb in football here and got laughed at despite statistical evidence to the contrary

[More Cowbell]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What?

You really would want Moore to run towards coverage and not away, where there was a large open area to work instead?  

The images below are the play in question. The top one is before Moore made his break or sat down, whatever you want to call it, the one below is when he broke off the route. Who is this defender that was going to make a play on him?

[More Cowbell]

9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

They didnt have the ball for an entire half.  The Eagles had the ball for almost the entire 3rd Q.  

Because the O could not do anything and gave the ball right back to the Eagles. Just image for a moment if the Jets put together a 12 play drive instead of going 3 and out and scored. 

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

The images below are the play in question. The top one is before Moore made his break or sat down, whatever you want to call it, the one below is when he broke off the route. Who is this defender that was going to make a play on him?

In the bottom pic, hes running towards his left, the defender is clearly on his right.  Zach lets the throw go towards the left and Moore takes a step to his right and then is out of position to make a play on the ball that was thrown to left, where it should have gone 

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Because the O could not do anything and gave the ball right back to the Eagles. Just image for a moment if the Jets put together a 12 play drive instead of going 3 and out and scored. 

You really just want to argue that a 3 and out should lead to the Eagles controlling the ball for over 13 minutes thats fine, im not arguing this point.  The problem in the 3rd was the D couldn't get off of the field, couldn't make a stop, not that the offense went 3 and out ints one time with the ball, it happens all the time doesnt cause and entire Q to be eaten up

 

[More Cowbell]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

In the bottom pic, hes running towards his left, the defender is clearly on his right.  Zach lets the throw go towards the left and Moore takes a step to his right and then is out of position to make a play on the ball that was thrown to left, where it should have gone 

There is no doubt  that they got crossed up but Moore was not running into coverage as you said. He was totally open

[More Cowbell]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

You really just want to argue that a 3 and out should lead to the Eagles controlling the ball for over 13 minutes thats fine, im not arguing this point 

 

Happy to hear it

[More Cowbell]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You really just want to argue that a 3 and out should lead to the Eagles controlling the ball for over 13 minutes thats fine, im not arguing this point.  The problem in the 3rd was the D couldn't get off of the field, couldn't make a stop, not that the offense went 3 and out ints one time with the ball, it happens all the time doesnt cause and entire Q to be eaten up

 

And conversely had the O put together their own long drive, they don't eat up the entire qrt either. 

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Because the O could not do anything and gave the ball right back to the Eagles. Just image for a moment if the Jets put together a 12 play drive instead of going 3 and out and scored. 

So anytime a team goes 3 and out it’s an invite to eat up a Q?  How about if they got 2 firsts on 6 plays and punted on play 9?  It’s the Os fault too?

[More Cowbell]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

So anytime a team goes 3 and out it’s an invite to eat up a Q?  How about if they got 2 firsts on 6 plays and punted on play 9?  It’s the Os fault too?

Actually that isn't  good either but it would have been an improvement  over what they actually  did do.

[Beaver]

5 hours ago, JiFapono said:

The whole video is pile of assumptions and he's kind of clueless, the leaps he's making here without saying the truth: "I have no idea what the play call is but...", it would go along way to earning credibility.  He just seems full of sh*t. 

For example.

The first play he examines around the minute mark, is almost the exact same play as the infamous Moore drop but in the first 1, the receiver/TE stays into protect the extra rusher and in the later one, he delays his release since there is nobody to block.  That said, the formation is the same and the route combo to the left side in the same.  On the first play, Moore sits in the spot and Zach hits him.  On the second play, Moore does the same thing, this time Zach throws it to the sideline.  Granted the coverage was different but the call looked the same.  As you said, there is no rule that requires Moore to keep running to the sideline.  You can beat man with a curl/comeback.  Conceptually, the spacing would have been very weird to have Moore running to the sideline with a go route on the outside.

Tim Jenkins pointed this same concept on Zack Wilson earlier in the season. It was the 4th pick Zack threw against the Patriots in their first meeting.  He does say it's not a good concept, but it is something the jets have used.

 

 

[BallinPB]

Listen I was on the Zach Wilson bandwagon to start the season.  Was encouraged by training camp/preseason and thought he would come out strong.  I've been disappointed to say the least.  

I keep hearing words like progress/progressing in this thread and I want to know why we think he's progressing when the Texans game was bad and he had 1 arguably good game after that?  I could argue that he progressed when he played good against the Titans and then regressed back to the mean when he went up against the Falcons the next week.  

For a guy to be progressing you at least need to see 2 games back to back of better QB play.  I would argue 3-4 but at least show me 2. Zach has not put together 2 back to back consistent good games yet.  

I'm a Jet fan so I will root for whoever the QB is on Sunday but I'm super disappointed especially when rookie QB's nowadays are playing much better than what he's shown (except the rookies this year for some reason).  

[T0mShane]

42 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

I said he was the best qb in football here and got laughed at despite statistical evidence to the contrary

You got laughed at because you posted it in the Rectal Massage forum.

[Jet Nut]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You got laughed at because you posted it in the Rectal Massage forum.

To be fair there’s a lot of drinking that goes on in that forum

[Gastineau Lives]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You got laughed at because you posted it in the Rectal Massage forum.

The Mod Lounge?

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

To be fair there’s a lot of drinking that goes on in that forum

Not a frown to be found in the rectal massage lounge.

[bicketybam]

So the people bashing Jets fans for making excuses for Zach are using those same excuses for Trevor?
The Jags have a good enough supporting cast just like the Jets and Bears. The Jags supporting cast was ranked higher than the Jets. The reason they don't look good is because of the QB. Same issue Jets WRs have.
 

Don't forget Fields. He's been pretty terrible. Same completion percentage as Wilson and only 4 passing TD's in 10 games. Awful.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Not a frown to be found in the rectal massage lounge.

[Gastineau Lives]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not a frown to be found in the rectal massage lounge.

You stole this from Nipsy Russell

[slimjasi]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Steve Young was on Michael Kay yesterday and they were asking him about Lamar Jackson and the state of QB play. Unprompted, Young says that DeShaun Watson is the one guy in football who he thinks can challenge for becoming the best player of all time. Naturally, he qualified it by saying Watson has his off the field issues to deal with first, but he’s the one player with all the requisite skills to be the GOAT. 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

The images below are the play in question. The top one is before Moore made his break or sat down, whatever you want to call it, the one below is when he broke off the route. Who is this defender that was going to make a play on him?

Why do you need images?  There is actually live video in the thread.  There you see what's happening.  It's very clear.

Moore is pressing the defender, the defender then turns his hips, heading right - which is Moore's signal to break left.  it is also ZW's signal that Moore is going to break left.  ZW, in an anticipation throw, releases the ball before Moore stops.

I think the point really is - Zach put the ball where he wanted to - getting timing and communication down with Moore is the LEAST of my worries.  That will come.  It really is a non-issue right now.

Zach's accuracy has been in question and this All-22 in many situation (specifically on this throw) has shown that many of the throws he's getting beat up for were actually right where he wanted to put them.  Go ahead and question those decisions or reads..but the accuracy is what was most concerning with ZW for me...and this all-22 has heavily alleviated a lot of it.  Can he back up this performance next week.  Don't know - but sure hope so...

This should be good news to any Jet fan.  

[Jet Nut]

24 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Can he back up this performance next week.  Don't know - but sure hope so...

NO has a good D, will be a real test.

[Jetsfan80]

56 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not a frown to be found in the rectal massage lounge.

  

51 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

You stole this from Nipsy Russell

No, I believe Arlo Guthrie said it best!

 

? You can get anything you want, at Alice's Rectal Massage Lounge ?

[JustInFudge]

57 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Why do you need images?  There is actually live video in the thread.  There you see what's happening.  It's very clear.

Moore is pressing the defender, the defender then turns his hips, heading right - which is Moore's signal to break left.  it is also ZW's signal that Moore is going to break left.  ZW, in an anticipation throw, releases the ball before Moore stops.

I think the point really is - Zach put the ball where he wanted to - getting timing and communication down with Moore is the LEAST of my worries.  That will come.  It really is a non-issue right now.

Zach's accuracy has been in question and this All-22 in many situation (specifically on this throw) has shown that many of the throws he's getting beat up for were actually right where he wanted to put them.  Go ahead and question those decisions or reads..but the accuracy is what was most concerning with ZW for me...and this all-22 has heavily alleviated a lot of it.  Can he back up this performance next week.  Don't know - but sure hope so...

This should be good news to any Jet fan.  

You have no idea where he wanted to put the ball and you have no idea where Moore was supposed to go.  Stop acting like because you watched the ALL22 described by some bozo that something you really want to believe with all your heart of hearts that it was confirmed.  

[Jimmy 2 Times]

8 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Looks like a Seam read choice route to me.  If so Moore is reading that high safety.  If the safety can’t get to him, he should just keep on trucking downfield because he has his guy beat.  If the safety had dropped underneath(not plausible here because no underneath route) the read is a post. 
 

The third read, which I think both Wilson and Moore both make is normally an out, but some teams run a hook as that 3rd route choice.  To me, that’s the correct read.  It looks like to me Zach is expecting him to plant the outside foot and break toward the sideline.  Instead, Moore pivots inside and hooks up and the throw just misses.  I do not know the correct route, that’s my best guess though.  I definitely think it’s more of a slight misstep in knowing what each other is going to do then an arrant throw.

 

Or they both read hook and Zach threw it away from the defender, but Moore hooked towards him. 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Why do you need images?  There is actually live video in the thread.  There you see what's happening.  It's very clear.

Moore is pressing the defender, the defender then turns his hips, heading right - which is Moore's signal to break left.  it is also ZW's signal that Moore is going to break left.  ZW, in an anticipation throw, releases the ball before Moore stops.

I think the point really is - Zach put the ball where he wanted to - getting timing and communication down with Moore is the LEAST of my worries.  That will come.  It really is a non-issue right now.

Zach's accuracy has been in question and this All-22 in many situation (specifically on this throw) has shown that many of the throws he's getting beat up for were actually right where he wanted to put them.  Go ahead and question those decisions or reads..but the accuracy is what was most concerning with ZW for me...and this all-22 has heavily alleviated a lot of it.  Can he back up this performance next week.  Don't know - but sure hope so...

This should be good news to any Jet fan.  

I pretty much said this but then I was told Moore turned into coverage which was the wrong way and Zach threw the ball where he should have gone. I just was trying to show there was no coverage he was turning into 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

1000% I think pro-Zach people are terrified by what they’ve seen and are increasingly desperate for any shred of evidence that he might be good some day. For example, they’re currently rallying around a video wherein a teenager hypothesizes about touchdowns Zach Wilson would have thrown if his receivers happened to be in the areas where his kooky passes fell harmlessly to the turf. 

 

I think the biggest question is why isn't everyone 1000% Zach? 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I think the biggest question is why isn't everyone 1000% Zach? 

As for myself, I am a size queen.