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Kyle Hamilton - can a reasonable case be made?


slimjasi
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Would you consider Kyle Hamilton with our second first round draft pick?   

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  1. 1. Would you consider Kyle Hamilton with our second first round draft pick?

    • Yes - ballhawk safeties are good
    • No
    • No - you are a bad fan and you should feel bad.
    • Maybe


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20 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

You can get Vernon McKinley in round 3-4. Here is a read up. And Saleh's defense is predicated on the pass rush. Hence, JD drafted like  20 CB's and safties in the late rounds last year. He's not drafting a safety with one of the 2 top picks.  Maybe in round 2 if he can add a 2nd rounder. An edge and a LB will be JD's targets with those first 2 picks.

A bit slight in frame, Verone McKinley III understands how to use his speed and athleticism to track ball carriers and find the football in coverage. He has some of the draft class’ best instincts in coverage, but he’s shown an ability to stuff run fits all the same. McKinley has taken a stepforward this season, helping to elevate the Oregon defense that lost a ton of talent over the years. He’s recorded 4 interceptions and has as many forced incompletions. Understanding his role, McKinley should add value as an Earl Thomas-type free safety in coverage at the next level. 

He didn’t draft any safeties last year. Hamsah and Sherwood are lbs. Hamilton is on a completely different level than McKinley. Watch a few of their games on YouTube. Hamilton takes over and shuts down a lot of the passing attack. He’s also good in run defense. McKinley is on the top 50 on a lot of big boards. He will go in round 2.  Might as well take a top tier talent like Hamilton in the first over a good player like McKinley in the 2nd.   I’m not all in on safety in the first, but wouldn’t mind Hamilton at all. 

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Are you seriously considering how much you will have to pay the guy in 5 years as a negative?  The fact that Adams go so much money is an indication that maybe the positional value is there. 5 years is an eternity.  The only real consideration to me about that is whether guys are worth a 1st or 2nd based on wanting to lock them up for an additional year.

My concern with positional value is when you take a guy because his floor is high.  A good safety will start for his contract, but if the guy is able to cover ground he can be a playmaker.  Let's see his 40 and let them rate his cover skills.  Assomugha was a safety in college and he was a top 3 corner for years.

you have to look at the long term implications to all your 1st rd picks.

did Adams not get his 72 mil cause he wasnt good enough or that JD doesnt think any safety should get paid that kind of money? im thinking the latter. 

IMO your 1st rd picks should be guys who get a 2nd contract. were not all built up to where Safety is the missing piece that there is nothing else to draft.

why didnt JD lock up Maye before his injury. if Safety is such an important part of this type of defense like some say why not lock him up? 

 

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8 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Ok, so we all (hopefully) understand that we desperately need an edge rusher with one of our two first round picks. Time to reopen the sack exchange. That's a given. 

 

The question is - what do we do with the other first round pick? Now, you could always take a stud offensive lineman. You could always take another weapon for Wilson. Those are also pretty standard answers that most of us could get behind. You could also take a stud LB who does a little bit of everything. We have all kinds of holes. 

But what about . . . safety? Now, before you ask me for my address so you can throw a bomb through my window, let me just leave this here:

 

Obviously, we are all scarred from taking Adams over Mahomes/Watson. But, unlike Adams, this guy is not allergic to interceptions and is something of a ball hawk. Seems like an awesome player. Would you consider taking him with our second first round pick? Normally, I am a firm believer in only using top 10 picks on premium positions, but I admit that I am intrigued by this guy. I also like the idea of aiming for an elite prospect at every level of the defense (DL, LB, secondary) and our secondary desperately needs an impact player.  It's probably still a bad idea, but I don't know, I just have a feeling about this player. 

What say you?

Wasn't there another thread on exactly this topic, without the pole? Or am I just being a thread cop?

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1 hour ago, BurntDice said:

He didn’t draft any safeties last year. Hamsah and Sherwood are lbs. Hamilton is on a completely different level than McKinley. Watch a few of their games on YouTube. Hamilton takes over and shuts down a lot of the passing attack. He’s also good in run defense. McKinley is on the top 50 on a lot of big boards. He will go in round 2.  Might as well take a top tier talent like Hamilton in the first over a good player like McKinley in the 2nd.   I’m not all in on safety in the first, but wouldn’t mind Hamilton at all. 

 

1 hour ago, Maynard13 said:

no theyre not LB's. They are safties.  Just like Gase isnt a head coach. 

Thanks, Maynard... been saying the same thing for multiple posts now... They need to stop the LB experiment with these 2 and put them back at Safety.. Especially if we want to try running the Seattle D. They are both 6'3 215 and would probably be better back their then at LB.

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33 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

 

Thanks, Maynard... been saying the same thing for multiple posts now... They need to stop the LB experiment with these 2 and put them back at Safety.. Especially if we want to try running the Seattle D. They are both 6'3 215 and would probably be better back their then at LB.

You never heard of 21 year old guys adding 10 lbs In a year and a half? That’s all they need to play will. The will generally are more in there for coverage. The Sam is generally heavier to pass rush and run stop with less coverage. I’m sure you know more than professional scouts and coaches though 

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16 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

I’m sure you know more than professional scouts and coaches though 

never said that, but thanks, I'm going to post for a job opening lol...  Seriously though, both of them are prototypical safeties... They could be our chancellor and thomas. They have great size and speed. Better than 2 5'11 guys, even though I like A Davis.

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7 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

never said that, but thanks, I'm going to post for a job opening lol...  Seriously though, both of them are prototypical safeties... They could be our chancellor and thomas. They have great size and speed. Better than 2 5'11 guys, even though I like A Davis.

Eh nas was a tackling machine in college and was all over the field. If he bulks up a bit he can be a great will linebacker.  Sherwood wasn’t very good at coverage, but was great around the line and blew guys up. He’ll prob be more of a mike or Sam.  Neither are ball hawks like earl
 

I like Davis too he is everything you can ask for athletically, but came in super raw. I watched an interview of his and he said he’s just now starting to understand how to watch tape. If he can improve his mental part of the game he can be solid  

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10 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Yes

The dude is a 6’4 220 ballhawk who can even play some in the slot and match up 1 on 1 with receivers.

Maye is as good as gone

Who the hell do we have at safety next year? Ashtyn Davis and Elijah Riley?

I wouldn’t even be against using our first 3 picks in a row on defense.

I’d sign up for something like Karlaftis, Hamilton and Brandon Smith right now. Then take the best available OG/C with the Carolina 2nd rounder.

So you'd be good with taking another safety with the Adams pick and then watching him walk in a few years if he's good because it's not a marquee position on the field. You just can't pick a safety in round 1. It's just not worth the money they will ask for in a second contract. Douglas would get absolutely roasted if he ever did that.

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2 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

So you'd be good with taking another safety with the Adams pick and then watching him walk in a few years if he's good because it's not a marquee position on the field. You just can't pick a safety in round 1. It's just not worth the money they will ask for in a second contract. Douglas would get absolutely roasted if he ever did that.

Many of the same people talking about taking a safety high in the 1st round being “bad value” would love to draft a center in the Top 10, possibly Top 5.

Despite drafting a LT and LG (one of which you traded up for) in the Top 15 in back to back years.

And I wouldn’t even be totally against Linderbaum. Just like I wouldn’t be against Hamilton.

But I absolutely want one of Hutchinson, Thibodeaux or Karlaftis assuming the highest of the 1st rounders is in the Top 5 or 6.

Lawson is no sure bet to return and make a massive impact and JFM is essentially on a series of 1 year deals.

Saleh’s defense relies on a consistent passrush from the initial front 4 above all else.

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6 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Many of the same people talking about taking a safety high in the 1st round being “bad value” would love to draft a center in the Top 10, possibly Top 5.

That's me, I've got my hand up.... Would you pass up the next Mawae, or Mangold ???  Sorry, that is the 2nd most important position in the offense. A guy who can be the OL General, call out pass and run protections. I'll say this again, we don't know if Becton can stay on the field, as much as I liked that pick. As of now he is a liability. If he does come back, if it were up to me, he'd have to earn his way back onto the field. Even then I might put him at RT next year, and keep Fant at LT, because I believe Fant is signed next year, and Moses is the one who would have to accept another contract.

I agree with you, that we need Edge, and I want that targeted in Rnd1, however if you think Linderbaum is going to be the one of the Top 5 centers in the NFL, unless you see someone next year that's better, then you have to find a way to take him as well. McGovern was better in Denver as RG, and now you'll have good competition with LDT for the RG position. GVR should be a goner as soon as the season ends. The only way I'd pass on Linderbaum is if JD decides he's going to pay big money for Scherff, then I'd keep McGovern for one more year at Center, and hope there is someone as good as Linderbaum next year. We missed our opportunity to get Creed Humphrey's last year.

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12 hours ago, doitny said:

you have to look at the long term implications to all your 1st rd picks.

did Adams not get his 72 mil cause he wasnt good enough or that JD doesnt think any safety should get paid that kind of money? im thinking the latter. 

IMO your 1st rd picks should be guys who get a 2nd contract. were not all built up to where Safety is the missing piece that there is nothing else to draft.

why didnt JD lock up Maye before his injury. if Safety is such an important part of this type of defense like some say why not lock him up? 

 

Long term implications are looking at where the free agent you sign will be when the money you guaranteed him is gone.  There is literally not a single GM that would be upset to draft a guy worth $72M in today's dollars when his rookie deal is up.  That is a hit.  I agree they will have to balance what the player means to the D, but sometimes that will mean that if they won't pay for what they need they have to draft it. 

Douglas made offers to Maye.  His agent said they were not serious.  We don't know exactly what they means, but they did pay the guy $10.6M.  I believe that Carl Lawson and Corey Davis are the only two guys getting more money this year.  If the position were so unimportant why not just sign another Lamarcus Joyner level free agent?  They could have signed 3 more for what they paid Maye.

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I think many teams believe that you are better off having multiple picks in the mid/late first round than a higher pick, particularly if that higher pick is used on a safety.

Where the Jets are looking to pick now, assuming no QB, an EDGE, LT or WR seem to be the right picks.  Yes, if Neal is available I would take him and move Becton to RT.   Do a Lane Johnson (on one of the best OL in the NFL).  

If the Jets really want to walk away with players like Linderbaum and Hamilton, they can be selected in the middle of the 1st round, at the earliest.  

To me, top 10-16 picks are players you definitely want to give second contracts to.  After that is ok to have good players on 4-5 year rentals.  

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Long term implications are looking at where the free agent you sign will be when the money you guaranteed him is gone.  There is literally not a single GM that would be upset to draft a guy worth $72M in today's dollars when his rookie deal is up.  That is a hit.  I agree they will have to balance what the player means to the D, but sometimes that will mean that if they won't pay for what they need they have to draft it. 

Douglas made offers to Maye.  His agent said they were not serious.  We don't know exactly what they means, but they did pay the guy $10.6M.  I believe that Carl Lawson and Corey Davis are the only two guys getting more money this year.  If the position were so unimportant why not just sign another Lamarcus Joyner level free agent?  They could have signed 3 more for what they paid Maye.

10.6m  is a lot less than the 17.6m Adams got.

maybe he didnt get another FA cause he didnt like anyone this year but Joyner. and Maybe he didnt want to throw away Ashton after one season. 

it could be a lot of reasons but the thing for me is when JD got here our Safety position was our strongest and when it came time to pay each he said no. and now you want to draft a guy who in 4-5 year will be asking for the same if not more money. 

i get Adams was the beginning of the rebuild, and he got an offer he couldn't refuse. but he could have paid Maye and didnt.

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22 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Thank you, Edge, CB, LB , TE yes

Safety, he!! no

Edge yes.  LB yes. OL yes.  In this defense - no to CB.  A hard definitive absolute no to a first round TE.  Historically wasted picks for first round TEs in the NFL over the past 20 or so years.  You can find TEs in the middle rounds and the best TEs in the NFL are all middle or late round picks.  I'll throw a brick through my TV if the Jets draft a TE before the 3rd round.  

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18 minutes ago, doitny said:

10.6m  is a lot less than the 17.6m Adams got.

maybe he didnt get another FA cause he didnt like anyone this year but Joyner. and Maybe he didnt want to throw away Ashton after one season. 

it could be a lot of reasons but the thing for me is when JD got here our Safety position was our strongest and when it came time to pay each he said no. and now you want to draft a guy who in 4-5 year will be asking for the same if not more money. 

i get Adams was the beginning of the rebuild, and he got an offer he couldn't refuse. but he could have paid Maye and didnt.

I don't think you get what I am saying.  They paid Maye $10.6M.  I get that isn't Adams money, but it also isn't peanuts.   It's like top 10 for a safety.  I don't think he is as fast as these guys prefer.  They could have traded him or let him walk and signed plenty with that cash.  They paid $13.6M to FA safeties in the 2021 offseason.  That doesn't indicate a lack of concern for the position to me.

Half the board is looking to draft Stingley at #2 overall.  They had no corners.  Their top guys were Austin and Hall who are both huge injury concerns.  Beyond that they had Guidry and Lamar Jackson.  They signed one FA CB and it was Justin Hardee who is literally special teams only.  They manned the position with 4th,5th 6th round draft picks and UDFA.  You can look at the money and tell me positional value is why they are going to draft Stingley over Hamilton?  

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31 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think you get what I am saying.  They paid Maye $10.6M.  I get that isn't Adams money, but it also isn't peanuts.   It's like top 10 for a safety.  I don't think he is as fast as these guys prefer.  They could have traded him or let him walk and signed plenty with that cash.  They paid $13.6M to FA safeties in the 2021 offseason.  That doesn't indicate a lack of concern for the position to me.

Half the board is looking to draft Stingley at #2 overall.  They had no corners.  Their top guys were Austin and Hall who are both huge injury concerns.  Beyond that they had Guidry and Lamar Jackson.  They signed one FA CB and it was Justin Hardee who is literally special teams only.  They manned the position with 4th,5th 6th round draft picks and UDFA.  You can look at the money and tell me positional value is why they are going to draft Stingley over Hamilton?  

i get what your saying. im just saying that JD had his chance to make the Safety position more solid but refuse to pay for it. 

if your JD you have to figure your plan worked and in 2026 we have been to a few playoffs and are a good team. cap space will be tight with all these 1st rd picks (Becton, AVT, Wilson ) getting big money plus guys like Moore and even Carter having to get paid. now add the Edge you draft this year and you got to be careful how you spread that money out. i just cant see JD paying him 17 mil in 2026.

im not sold on Stingley cause of the injury but yes the a CB you can shut down there top WR id more important than Safety. but for the record i rather go Edge and LB before we go CB. 

look at Adams 17.2 mil. it has hurt Seattle. Buffalo is paying 2 Safteys the same its costing Sea to pay one Adams. Seattle could have used the saved money to help in other areas. is it a coincidence that only 1 of the top 5 Safetys are on winning teams. (Arizona, Baker )

 

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