..jets’ kicking calamity goes back to Nick Folk blunder

[rox]

If the Jets were any good, this would be a much bigger issue.

If the Jets were in contention for — (clearing throat) — a playoff berth this would be a major problem.But because the Jets stink and because they’re light years from even sniffing the aroma of playoff contention, this is a mere pimple on the derriere of Mekhi Becton, their 365-pound tackle.That, however, is no excuse for the way the Jets have allowed their kicking situation to become such a calamity it’s feels like it’s one more screwup away from being lampooned on “Saturday Night Live’’ or by Jimmy Fallon.In short, the kicking game has kicked the Jets in the butt for the past five years — since they inexplicably parted ways with Nick Folk in 2017 after Folk had given them seven dependable seasons.

Folk, you may have noticed, is having a magnificent season with the Patriots, having made 33 of 36 field goals through 13 games and is possibly on his way to not only another Pro Bowl but a Super Bowl.

But who’s counting?

The kicking situation has become a source of utter embarrassment for the Jets, who will trot out someone named Eddy Pineiro to kick against the Saints on Sunday at MetLife Stadium.Pineiro will be the ninth kicker to wear a Jets uniform and (attempt) to kick for them since Folk was released to free up a few shekels on the salary cap in February 2017. Nine kickers in five years is not a path to success.You may have noticed Folk, in his third season in New England, kicking two clutch field goals in winds that were gusting to 50 mph in the Patriots’ 14-10 win over the Bills on Monday night in blustery Buffalo.

Folk’s first field goal, a 41-yarder in the second quarter, gave the Patriots an 11-7 lead, and his second one, a 34-yarder in the fourth quarter, made it 14-10.Chances are Folk will likely be in New England for a while, because unlike the Jets in the past five years, the Patriots place high value on dependable kickers. That’s why Adam Vinatieri wore their uniform for 10 years (from 1996 to 2005) and Stephen Gostkowski wore it 14 years after him (2006-2019).

Both, of course, were special kickers, Vinatieri one of the all-time greats.

The point is: If Mike Maccagnan, the Jets general manager at the time Folk was released, placed the same value on a dependable kicker as New England has, he’d have kept Folk instead of trying to save a few dollars thinking he could roll any other kicker in and get the same production.The funny thing is, the Jets actually did bring some decent kickers in after letting Folk go. Chandler Catanzaro was signed in 2017 and went a respectable 25 of 30 on field goals (83.3 percent), but wasn’t brought back for 2018.

Enter Jason Myers, who made 33 of 36 field goals for 91.7 percent and got voted into the Pro Bowl in 2018.

Myers never got to wear a Jets uniform after 2018 because they discarded him the same way they discarded Folk, preferring not to give him the multiyear deal he would eventually get with Seattle, where he was 23 of 28 on field goals in 2019, then went 24 of 24 in 2020 and is 9 of 14 this year.Just like the way they mishandled the Folk situation, the Jets again showed they don’t value the position the way good teams do.Now they’re paying for it. Now, as they scramble to find someone — anyone — who can execute a simple point after touchdown, the Jets are getting exactly what they deserve.Maybe the 26-year-old Pineiro, the first player of Nicaraguan descent to play in the NFL, will make Jets fans forget the nonsense that’s taken place at kicker since the Jets moved on from Folk.But he hasn’t kicked in an NFL game since 2019 when he was with the Bears, then missed all of last season with a groin injury, spent three months with the Colts this summer and then a week on the Washington Football Team’s practice squad before the desperate Jets came calling.

So, the likelihood Pineiro becomes the Jets’ Vinatieri, Gostkowski or even Folk isn’t high. If he does become some sort of dependable version of those kickers, however, perhaps the Jets will show they’ve learned their lesson and retain him for more than 10 minutes.

 -  -   https://nypost.com/2021/12/07/the-jets-kicking-problem-is-nothing-new/

[JetsFanatic]

MacCagnan deserves the blame for not valuing good Field Goal kickers (Folk, Catanzaro & Myers)by failing to resign them . Also, unfortunately Douglas has been unable to find a good one. Hopefully if a consistent kicker is finally found, Douglas is smart enough to keep him.

[AFJF]

15 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

MacCagnan, deserves the blame for not valuing good Field Goal kickers (Folk, Catanzaro & Myers)by failing to resign them . Also, unfortunately Douglas has been unable to find a good one. Hopefully if a consistent kicker is finally found, Douglas is smart enough to keep him.

I think Mac never re-signed kickers because finding them may have been the only thing he was good at.  Seemed like  a different guy every year or two and they always performed well.

[Barry McCockinner]

[Warfish]

Some of us got it at the time. 

Most didn't.

On a team that never spends all it's cap, and has had horrible scoring offenses, cutting our reliable kicker over a few bucks was always stupid.

And the results, years now of kicker-of-the-week-follies, speaks for itself.

Same ol' Jets.

[Ken Schroy]

Little Mac was a penny pinching horses ass when PKers wanted to get paid.

[undertow]

40 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

MacCagnan, deserves the blame for not valuing good Field Goal kickers (Folk, Catanzaro & Myers)by failing to resign them . Also, unfortunately Douglas has been unable to find a good one. Hopefully if a consistent kicker is finally found, Douglas is smart enough to keep him.

So MacCagnan didn't value them and JD has just been unlucky and can't find one? lol

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, undertow said:

So MacCagnan didn't value them and JD has just been unlucky and can't find one? lol

Unlucky or incapable?

He could likely find one or possibly trade for one if it was that important to him and he was willing to pay.

As the article stated, the fact the Jets aren’t in contention for anything has made this issue a little less glaring. A missed FG or extra point hasn’t been a big enough deal to JD when the Jets are losing by double digits.

[kmnj]

lol our kicker problem is the problem of Joe D stop blaming  Mac-Joe has been here 2.5 years and he sucks 

yes mac let good kickers go but guess what  he is not the GM and was not this year or last year -   Joe is-there were  PLENTY of kickers Joe could have signed-I mean there is one kicking in the same stadium he could have picked up for an old ham sandwich in Gano who is WAY BETTER than what Joe brought in

 

[kmnj]

by the way gano this year 

25/29  perfect on x points and from 50+ yards 6 of 9

stop with the blaming Mac Joe sucks and passed on many proven kickers such as Gano

[kmnj]

greg the leg was out there Joe picked guys without a leg

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

And the poor FG kicking the past 3 seasons has cost the Jets what exactly?  Folk sat on his couch for two seasons after  the Jets released him after 2016.  Myers had a career year with the Jets and besides that has been poor to mediocre before and after.  Cantanzero????  What am I missing with him.  Plus, he retired when he realized he couldn't kick anymore.

I would have been more patient with Amendola,but....

Anyone who thinks a premier kicker is coming here over a contending team is nuts.  It is imperative that the Jets find a quality kicker next season, but these guys are up and down.  It's not that easy. 

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, rox said:

 Nine kickers in five years is not a path to success.

Or QB's, or head coaches, or OC's, or DC's, or GM's, or............

[slats]

If the team isn’t good, the kicker doesn’t matter. For this season, they just should’ve stuck with Amendola. When the time comes that an extra point or FG makes a difference in the season, you can buy one. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Unlucky or incapable?

He could likely find one or possibly trade for one if it was that important to him and he was willing to pay.

As the article stated, the fact the Jets aren’t in contention for anything has made this issue a little less glaring. A missed FG or extra point hasn’t been a big deal when the Jets are losing by double digits.

So when you only have 3 wins losing games on a FG is acceptable?

 

[HawkeyeJet]

I don’t understand kicking scouting in the least.  Iowa has produced probably 4 straight kickers who were considerably better collegiate kickers than Ammendola or Kessmann.  And they haven’t gotten much other than camp tryouts in the NFL.  Accurate and reliable,  good but not huge legs, trust each one from 50.  

What changes from college to the NFL where guys like these two get shots but kickers who make kicks don’t?  Only thing I can think of is leg strength is overvalued 

[HighPitch]

2 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

MacCagnan deserves the blame for not valuing good Field Goal kickers (Folk, Catanzaro & Myers)by failing to resign them . Also, unfortunately Douglas has been unable to find a good one. Hopefully if a consistent kicker is finally found, Douglas is smart enough to keep him.

Does anybody value them? Every draft, once you get into the 5/6th round youd think the best kickers and punters would start being taken. Instead, its that project WR from a community college with 6 toes or the 400 lb OT that has a wooden leg. All projects that rarely pay off. But these kickers and punters often go undrafted. Ehhhh, whats the big deal its only an extra point right

[HighPitch]

2 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

 

This Folk thing irritates me on 2 levels. First, he should have been treated like a prince and resigned. But secondly, my best buddies wife is friends with his wife. So my buddy became friends with Nick. He would often call him on his cell to bs a bit in front of me just to piss me off..... "yea, my buddy is here hes a douchy jet fan listening in to our conversation"

[Bleedin Green]

This is such a bullsh*t revisionist history narrative to try to excuse the fact that JD is the most horrifically awful evaluator of kickers in the entire league.  Before this year, Jason Myers was the favored excuse, except for now it turns out he's been a pile of hot garbage this year, so let's go back 5 years to excuse incompetence of today.  Meanwhile, Folk went on to only last a month with the Bucs in 2017, then spend the entirety of 2018 and most of 2019 out of the NFL entirely, until signed by NE in December.  He then remained unsigned again in 2020 until August, before not even making the Pats final cut at the beginning of this season.

Maccagnan had no problem filling the position just fine for 2 years without Folk.  It's been 3 years of unmatched incompetence from JD at that same position, each of which he had the opportunity to bring back Folk, and a wide variety of other kickers less incompetent than the ones he signed, and failed to do so.

This situation is 100% on Douglas, and that is indisputable.

[TheClashFan]

56 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I don’t understand kicking scouting in the least.  Iowa has produced probably 4 straight kickers who were considerably better collegiate kickers than Ammendola or Kessmann.  And they haven’t gotten much other than camp tryouts in the NFL.  Accurate and reliable,  good but not huge legs, trust each one from 50.  

What changes from college to the NFL where guys like these two get shots but kickers who make kicks don’t?  Only thing I can think of is leg strength is overvalued 

This seems likely with JD.  He keeps trying young guys with strong legs who turn out to be inaccurate and unreliable.

 

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

So when you only have 3 wins losing games on a FG is acceptable?

 

Nope, it's not acceptable.... at least to me.  But a subpar kicking game hasn't irked JD enough to do something meaningful about it.  He's been playing Kicker Roulette for over two years now.  Maybe in his mind he doesn't want to spend money on truly solidifying the Kicker spot until the Jets have addressed other areas on the roster and the team becomes competitive for something other than a Top 5 draft pick each year.

 

 

And I edited my original post to make it more clear that I'm talking JD as the one who seems to have found this acceptable.

"As the article stated, the fact the Jets aren’t in contention for anything has made this issue a little less glaring. A missed FG or extra point hasn’t been a big enough deal to JD when the Jets are losing by double digits."

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Nope, it's not acceptable.... at least to me.  But a subpar kicking game hasn't irked JD enough to do something meaningful about it.  He's been playing Kicker Roulette for over two years now.  Maybe in his mind he doesn't want to spend money on truly solidifying the Kicker spot until the Jets have addressed other areas on the roster and the team becomes competitive for something other than a Top 5 draft pick each year.

Possibly some of this combined with his whole mantra about building from the ground up. He's brought in a number of young kickers with big legs - my impression is the Jets have been looking to develop their own kicker. At this point, I think he needs to consider cutting his losses and either using a late round draft pick on the best kicker in the draft or bringing in a legit established kicker. 

[rangerous]

as i recall folk was getting injured and at his age there's thought that he won't be able to recover quickly.  nothing wrong with that reasoning.  they brought in myers who had a really good year but last time i looked he was ranked 31 so it's not like they gave up on an all world kicker.  they need a reliable kicker.  seems like they're either not scouting them enough or they just aren't out there at the moment.

[jetstream23]

8 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Possibly some of this combined with his whole mantra about building from the ground up. He's brought in a number of young kickers with big legs - my impression is the Jets have been looking to develop their own kicker. At this point, I think he needs to consider cutting his losses and either using a late round draft pick on the best kicker in the draft or bringing in a legit established kicker. 

Yeah, if this continues to be a "slow rebuild" then JD is probably find spending a year (or two now) auditioning kickers and turning over rocks to find some undiscovered leg that the rest of the NFL has missed.  The problem could be this.... Let's fantasize for a moment about a Jets team that is a .500 ball club in 2022 and possibly sniffing for a Wild Card in 2023.  If the Jets haven't been able to address the Kicker position by then you can't really suddenly snap your fingers and say, "We're competitive now.  Let's sign a trustworthy Kicker to make sure we don't lose an important game by a FG."  You may not be able to find that guy when you really want him.

Another thought... Wouldn't you think this is becoming somewhat annoying for JD?  Imagine as a GM you're now spending a couple hours every week hunting for a new kicker.  It's like a guy trying to manage his fantasy football team where he missed out on all the good TEs in his fantasy draft.  Every week he's scouring the waiver wire, comparing matchups, looking for a random TE that might get him 4 catches this coming weekend.  If I were JD I'd really want to put this to bed at some point and just plug in a guy who is pretty automatic.

[prime21]

Any time you have a young QB that is learning the game I believe the GM should go out and spend a little on a kicker.  Give those Qb's some confidence and momentum by putting up some points on the board whenever possible.  

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

So if the Jets use a draft pick on a kicker/punter we get a WTF did they waste a pick when XX player was on the board.  When a kicker that is signed isn't good, we get a WTF - why don't we draft a kicker instead of XX player.  Until the kicker costs the Jets a game that has playoff implications, I am just not that worried about it. There are 7-8 very good kickers and the rest are interchangeable and are up and down from week to week and season to season.  

[HtownJet]

Pat Leahy kicked for the Jets from 1974 to 1991 and one of the best I ever saw. You don’t find good kickers under rocks. Folk should still be here, shame on Maccagnan!

[Sonny Werblin]

2 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I don’t understand kicking scouting in the least.  Iowa has produced probably 4 straight kickers who were considerably better collegiate kickers than Ammendola or Kessmann.  And they haven’t gotten much other than camp tryouts in the NFL.  Accurate and reliable,  good but not huge legs, trust each one from 50.  

What changes from college to the NFL where guys like these two get shots but kickers who make kicks don’t?  Only thing I can think of is leg strength is overvalued 

Overvalued? You miss 100% of the FGs you can't reach. 

Bring back Amendola. He'll work it out.  It amazes me that the Jets are willing to suffer through Wilson's growing pains because he has special "abilities", but the same was not true for Amendola. Heck, the guy even punted well when forced into emergency service.

[HawkeyeJet]

5 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Overvalued? You miss 100% of the FGs you can't reach. 

Bring back Amendola. He'll work it out.  It amazes me that the Jets are willing to suffer through Wilson's growing pains because he has special "abilities", but the same was not true for Amendola. Heck, the guy even punted well when forced into emergency service.

There is no reason to believe Ammendola will be ok.  And to compare what a QB has to adjust to and a place kicker is nutty.

You’d rather have a kicker who “can” make a 56 yard kick but is not nearly as consistent for FGs under 50 yards?  I don’t agree with that at all.  If one kickers range is 58 and the other’s 52 but the guy with range from 52 males 10% more of his attempts from less than  50, you’d still rather have the 58 yard range?

[Lith]

1 hour ago, prime21 said:

Any time you have a young QB that is learning the game I believe the GM should go out and spend a little on a kicker.  Give those Qb's some confidence and momentum by putting up some points on the board whenever possible.  

Yup.  I agree,  We have two made FGs of over 40 yards on the season.  And none of over 50.  So to score points, we need to get inside the 25 yard line.  Other teams can score when they get to around the 35 or even 40.  Having an unreliable kicker puts more pressure on the young QB.  

Next season, i reallly want to see JD bring in an established vet -- we shoudl have the cap space.  Spend money on a guy who can help put points on the board and not shop the bargain bin.

[Lith]

8 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

There is no reason to believe Ammendola will be ok.  And to compare what a QB has to adjust to and a place kicker is nutty.

You’d rather have a kicker who “can” make a 56 yard kick but is not nearly as consistent for FGs under 50 yards?  I don’t agree with that at all.  If one kickers range is 58 and the other’s 52 but the guy with range from 52 males 10% more of his attempts from less than  50, you’d still rather have the 58 yard range?

I agree.  I would rather have a guy who can consistently make a 40 yarder in the last two minutes of a tight game than a guy with the big enough leg to make the 55+ kick.  Like I just said in another post, get an established vet who has done it before, even if it costs a few extra bucks.

[Sonny Werblin]

41 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

There is no reason to believe Ammendola will be ok.  And to compare what a QB has to adjust to and a place kicker is nutty.

You’d rather have a kicker who “can” make a 56 yard kick but is not nearly as consistent for FGs under 50 yards?  I don’t agree with that at all.  If one kickers range is 58 and the other’s 52 but the guy with range from 52 males 10% more of his attempts from less than  50, you’d still rather have the 58 yard range?

My point is that you give Amendola a longer look because if he becomes dependable, the payoff is big.

i don’t agree that there is no reason to believe Amendola will become dependable. His misses (but for one) were near misses. That’s technique and feel that should be fixable with experience.

[bla bla bla]

I'll never understand why a team wouldn't value the position that wins you games from 50 yards out.

That said, it really doesn't bother me to lose games because of a bad kicker right now. 2022/23 will be a different story as we should expect playoff contention next year and playoffs the year after.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

My point is that you give Amendola a longer look because if he becomes dependable, the payoff is big.

i don’t agree that there is no reason to believe Amendola will become dependable. His misses (but for one) were near misses. That’s technique and feel that should be fixable with experience.

Or its in his head, not in his technique.   If hes at Florham Park banging FGs through the pipes, hes a head case.  We have to assume he showed something in practices, he was supposedly hitting them in the the summer.  But now he's not.  Its his head, where most lost Ks go to die

[Sonny Werblin]

26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Or its in his head, not in his technique.   If hes at Florham Park banging FGs through the pipes, hes a head case.  We have to assume he showed something in practices, he was supposedly hitting them in the the summer.  But now he's not.  Its his head, where most lost Ks go to die

Not in his head. He is 11 for 11 on FG inside 40 yards.