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One day the Braxton Berrios type of player will not be on this team


BornJetsFan1983
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3 minutes ago, Hex said:

How about I put it this way:

Would you rather have a returner that can get you an extra 20 yards on average before your drive even starts, or start 20 yards back and trust your offense to try and drive 20 extra yards?

Ill take option 1 alex!

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Just now, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Ill take option 1 alex!

Exactly. That's what Berrios does for the team. His return skills are sharp enough that he can get the extra yardage and better field position before the drive even starts.

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1 hour ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

This whole post is filled with Berrios is such a good player that we shouldn't replace him with a younger drafted players.

If you do not think he is some great player and that we should replace like I said then what exactly do you disagree with?

 

Why waste a draft pick on a player that we have already at a FA waiver pickup price point who has proven he can do the job and clearly has the skills to get better?  You put a #1 pick there and all your financials are now vastly different.  What if he busts?  Why did you get rid of the guy you already had?

 

The things that you are arguing for are stupid.  And when you say we don't understand them, we do.  We know exactly what you are trying to say and it is a terrible idea and no one agrees.  I've done this like 3 times dude, stop.  The water... put it DOWN!

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Just now, BornJetsFan1983 said:

no just saying that is not likely to repeat. like I literally said in the comment you responded to. 

So you're saying then to roll the dice and try to find a new guy when we already have a proven one?

Based on what you're saying, both chances are equally likely except that one of them has already shown he's done it before.

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1 minute ago, Hex said:

Exactly. That's what Berrios does for the team. His return skills are sharp enough that he can get the extra yardage and better field position before the drive even starts.

Not really.

He gets us 5 yards better on average and that is not every play, just some plays, plenty are fair catches.

Someone else might only give us league average but we are talking 5 yards less.  That is not going back 5 yard or like your analogy 20.

So you just have a bad analogy.

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To me. Easing my mind when the ball is in the air on a punt. When Berrios is the one fielding that punt (is priceless) in its own right. Not to mention he is willing and damn good at it to play specials. Where some wideouts can’t be bothered with special teams. Or simply can’t. Berrios gives you that… now throw in the fact that he is a very competent, reliable, safety valve, gadget player as your # 4 wide receiver. Yeah…He needs to be resigned


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4 minutes ago, Origen said:

 

Why waste a draft pick on a player that we have already at a FA waiver pickup price point who has proven he can do the job and clearly has the skills to get better?  You put a #1 pick there and all your financials are now vastly different.  What if he busts?  Why did you get rid of the guy you already had?

 

The things that you are arguing for are stupid.  And when you say we don't understand them, we do.  We know exactly what you are trying to say and it is a terrible idea and no one agrees.  I've done this like 3 times dude, stop.  The water... put it DOWN!

the things you are argue are stupid no doubt.

But do not mistake your takes with mine. They are your own.

You say you understand mine but then clearly show in the same post you do not. 

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Just now, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Not really.

He gets us 5 yards better on average and that is not every play, just some plays, plenty are fair catches.

Someone else might only give us league average but we are talking 5 yards less.  That is not going back 5 yard or like your analogy 20.

So you just have a bad analogy.

Berrios averaged 30 yards per return this season. That's 10+ yards over average.

That means that the team has to go 10% less of the way than if they had an average guy.

My analogy from before was bad because I wasn't subtracting his from average, I thought he averaged closer to 20 yards, so I said that.

I don't care if returners don't always repeat amazing stats, if you had to pick between one who has averaged 10 yards more in a season than everybody else and some guy who could get close to that, you would always pick option 1.

There is no point in getting rid of Berrios.

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4 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

the things you are argue are stupid no doubt.

But do not mistake your takes with mine. They are your own.

You say you understand mine but then clearly show in the same post you do not. 

Because your points are nonsensical and unworthy of this much discussion.  If it were not for the inherent rubbernecking at this car crash you are undergoing, no one would be here.

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8 minutes ago, Hex said:

So you're saying then to roll the dice and try to find a new guy when we already have a proven one?

Based on what you're saying, both chances are equally likely except that one of them has already shown he's done it before.

Just read what I said dont try to change it or interpret it. Take it at facevalue.

I say let whatever back ups we have play special teams and that if we can improve those back up with higher upside players then we should. We have a guy who had a good return man season no doubt, but that is unlikely to repeat and if we could replace him with a stud WR draft pick that would be great. Maybe not this year because of previously bad drafts and not having a great room yet, but a season or two away.

I think Berrios if he doesn't try to demand alot of money over what Joe offers him will be a jet one more year but after that it will be hard for him to be on the roster. Because he probably wont repeat his Special teams success and he most likely wont get as much gimmick plays with Zach developing and actually using his top WR's who fingers crossed will be healthy! 

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3 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Just read what I said dont try to change it or interpret it. Take it at facevalue.

I say let whatever back ups we have play special teams and that if we can improve those back up with higher upside players then we should. We have a guy who had a good return man season no doubt, but that is unlikely to repeat and if we could replace him with a stud WR draft pick that would be great. Maybe not this year because of previously bad drafts and not having a great room yet, but a season or two away.

I think Berrios if he doesn't try to demand alot of money over what Joe offers him will be a jet one more year but after that it will be hard for him to be on the roster. Because he probably wont repeat his Special teams success and he most likely wont get as much gimmick plays with Zach developing and actually using his top WR's who fingers crossed will be healthy! 

So what are you saying is your idea on what to do to replace Berrios when he theoretically can't be on the roster anymore?

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5 minutes ago, Hex said:

Berrios averaged 30 yards per return this season. That's 10+ yards over average.

That means that the team has to go 10% less of the way than if they had an average guy.

My analogy from before was bad because I wasn't subtracting his from average, I thought he averaged closer to 20 yards, so I said that.

I don't care if returners don't always repeat amazing stats, if you had to pick between one who has averaged 10 yards more in a season than everybody else and some guy who could get close to that, you would always pick option 1.

There is no point in getting rid of Berrios.

I was told it was 5 over average earlier and just assume they were right. I rather have a guy capable of getting 10 yards per snap verse return is better. getting that guys is the one time and reason you would make a move from berrios like i said. Or if he wants too much money. 

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2 minutes ago, Hex said:

So what are you saying is your idea on what to do to replace Berrios when he theoretically can't be on the roster anymore?

you mean like when he is not needed because we have higher upside guys on the roster? When he is replaced by a drafted player we pick up. that might be a stud? Like that? Like i have been saying the entire time. Yes I do mean that.

lol

Louis Litt Genius GIF by Suits

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5 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I was told it was 5 over average earlier and just assume they were right. I rather have a guy capable of getting 10 yards per snap verse return is better. getting that guys is the one time and reason you would make a move from berrios like i said. Or if he wants too much money. 

Berrios isn't going to demand this 'too much' money unless he shows that he is good enough to deserve it. He knows that the Jets are essentially going to offer the same deals as everybody else unless he becomes a pro-bowl WR as well as a good returner. And the Jets aren't going to move on from him in the return area even if they can get a guy who is just as good as him, because there's no point in releasing a player that has chemistry with the other players just to get somebody who can do the same thing for that 0.5% cap drop.

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4 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

you mean like when he is not needed because we have higher upside guys on the roster? When he is replaced by a drafted player we pick up. that might be a stud? Like that? Like i have been saying the entire time. Yes I do mean that.

lol

Louis Litt Genius GIF by Suits

You are hard to argue with because you keep going in circles. You are suggesting that Berrios doesn't have a higher upside, and that the Jets are going to draft 5 players better than him? Because currently he's high up on the depth chart because there's nobody else. That doesn't mean we don't need him even when we have good depth. If I were a GM, I would see no point to replacing a good player because they 'don't have as much upside'. But in the event that the Jets manage to draft 5 top WRs, then, maybe the Braxton Berrios type player will not be on this team.

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47 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Ideally we draft WRs that become good players on the team. did you read the first post? Bateman is in Baltimore and St Amon Ra is in Det. He was a 4th round pick. The idea is berrios wont have room to be on the roster cause when we draft someone as a WR they will be in his spot. Doesn't have to be a number 1 pick. Could be some 4th rounder that we want to see if he can be something special - at WR...Our WR room is vastly better than before but next year will be better and hopefully the year after will be set. 

 

 

Again apologies for my ignorance. Bateman and st Amon are all pro and return punts/ special teams?

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8 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

you mean like when he is not needed because we have higher upside guys on the roster? When he is replaced by a drafted player we pick up. that might be a stud? Like that? Like i have been saying the entire time. Yes I do mean that.

lol

Louis Litt Genius GIF by Suits

WE KNOW.  THAT'S WHY WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU IT'S A STUPID PREMISE.

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3 minutes ago, Hex said:

You are hard to argue with because you keep going in circles. You are suggesting that Berrios doesn't have a higher upside, and that the Jets are going to draft 5 players better than him?

Followed by the “your [read: you’re] just making my argument for me!” idiocy. 

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2 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Dude this is sad at this point. I mean you're either purposely ignorant or just cant get over your Berrios boner. I have never argued your comment or any of these comments trying disagreeing with me. No matter how many times i correct you.  

All I said is a young draft pick with potential and unknown upside is better than berrios. Sure berrios had a great year doing returns, big deal, I rather have a guy that might break out. Newsflash that is how most teams run. That is how you should want the team to run.

For the record 25 pages in and you are still rooting against having a better roster. SOJF. good job!

So the next Denzel Mims is more valuable than Berrios?  LMAO.  

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just not in reality because everyone that did the whole evaluation of him thing for every single team had him as a top pick in the draft despite your monday morning qtrback opinion. Man how silly of every major draft talent advisor and professional all got it wrong but not you lol.
I literally linked you his NFL draft evaluation card thing. but you can look at the source of your choice. One thing about being wrong like you and that no matter how much you want to pretend it isnt the way it is...is that it is the way it is. Darnold not only was highly touted for his talent but also had and showed great promise in his rookie year. You cant just make believe that away because it doesn't fit your silly narrative. 
Even when you are always right like me, even I, from time to time have to evaluate new info and take that into account. Like berrios special teams play, I didn't give him the credit he deserved. Still not very valuable overall to the team and very replaceable but still he should get credit. Hopefully he gets even better next year under the team friendly contract he will be signing.


He was okay as a rookie. He didn’t play well despite what revisionist history you want it to be.


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9 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

 

I don't think i can disagree on facts. If anything, I adjust my opinion when someone points out something I did not know. Like how good Berrios was at special teams, I thought originally maybe there were in flatted numbers. But as discussed his numbers are indeed top of the league. I still don't think 5 yards more per return is all that important overall considering our other needs, but the fact is berrios is a better special teamer than I thought and admitted as such.

 

Try looking at it this way.

Assume we have something like 6 to 8 offensive possessions per game that start with kick returns. Either start of game / half, or kick returns after opposing TDs / FGs.

5 more yards per return equates to an extra 30 to 40 yards of field. If you added that to a WRs yardage total, or a RBs total rushing yards, or a QBs total passing yards, that would be quite a nice boost to their stats. ST yardage is often referred to as "hidden yardage" because it doesn't show up on the headline stats. But getting 30 to 40 MORE yards per game than an opponent can make a lot of difference.

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9 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Dude this is sad at this point. I mean you're either purposely ignorant or just cant get over your Berrios boner. I have never argued your comment or any of these comments trying disagreeing with me. No matter how many times i correct you.  

All I said is a young draft pick with potential and unknown upside is better than berrios. Sure berrios had a great year doing returns, big deal, I rather have a guy that might break out. Newsflash that is how most teams run. That is how you should want the team to run.

For the record 25 pages in and you are still rooting against having a better roster. SOJF. good job!

No one is rooting against a better roster. Seriously. But if you were to rank the WR class of 2021 for the Jets in terms of their impact on the games we played in, you've pulled out the guy who would probably be #3 on a list of 7 or so to pick on as being the "scrub" that needs to be replaced.

Moore, Davis, Berrios, Cole, Crowder, J Smith, V Smyth, Mims ... that would be my approximate list. Purely subjective, yes, and other lists are available, but it seems mighty odd to me, and most of the rest of the board, why Berrios gets your ire when there are numerous other worthy targets that would represent a far bigger improvement in team talent if they were replaced by a draft pick with upside. He may not be a superstar, but he's far from being the bottom of our barrel as far as talent is concerned. 

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On 1/11/2022 at 3:49 PM, BornJetsFan1983 said:

he is damaged goods, not hard to understand.

Man if gases would not have trashed him, he could have been great.

All it took to ruin him was to be with a bad HC/OC for two whole seasons?  Moving on to a better situation wouldn’t bring about better play, why?  

Two years of unimaginative play calling is why he can’t complete passes.  If that’s the case he never had the talents you thought/think he has.  

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