This explains A LOT why Mac Jones only passed the ball only 3 times vs Bills

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, Hex said:

I don't know

It's your claim, I'm asking you.

Maybe start with telling us why Kirk Cousins is the reason his team loses.

5 minutes ago, Hex said:

The Jets are worse but I wouldn't count on Cousins playing as well here. 

No, you're counting on Wilson playing well here.

5 minutes ago, Hex said:

I agree with this statement, but there's a difference between 'no competition' and 'let's invest everything in a QB who plays well but loses half of his games'. Even if you argue that Cousins is losing games because of how bad the defense is, he will do even worse here. 

That would be true if we were scraping the top of the cap every season.  We're not.  We could have easily afforded Cousins.

5 minutes ago, Hex said:

No, it doesn't, but I doubt the Vikings fans are feeling great now either. I would rather roll the dice over and over again in hopes for a 6 instead of a 3 every time

You're going to get a lot of 3's (and 2's and 1's), and alot of losing seasons full of misery and suffering.

I hope all that "hope" makes up for all the loses for you.  Because it doesn't anymore for me.

I want results.  Not a vague notion of hope that is almost always vastly more hype than anything else.

[Hex]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

It's your claim, I'm asking you.

Maybe start with telling us why Kirk Cousins is the reason his team loses.

How about you tell us what aspect of the Vikings is causing them to lose that is worse than the Jets. I didn't say he was the reason his team loses, but he hasn't proven he can carry a bad team to anything, let alone a mediocre one. 

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No, you're counting on Wilson playing well here.

There's a better chance of rolling a 6 on a die than a coin landing on its side. I see nothing in Cousins that convinces me he can win more with the Jets than with the Vikings. I also don't see much in Wilson that convinces me he can win more with the Jets, but I have seen much more in total with Cousins.

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That would be true if we were scraping the top of the cap every season.  We're not.  We could have easily afforded Cousins.

Sure, we can. But what have you seen from the Jets that suggests that we would also improve the defense enough given we trade/sign Cousins?

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You're going to get a lot of 3's (and 2's and 1's), and alot of losing seasons full of misery and suffering.

I hope all that "hope" makes up for all the loses for you.  Because it doesn't anymore for me.

I understand that's how you see this. The way I see this is another losing season or two followed by wins and runs is a lot better to me than immediate better seasons but no progress. There hasn't been much to show that the Jets will progress but there hasn't been much to show Cousins would be the guy to help the Jets progress either. 

In the end we have 2 differing opinions, though, and that's fine with me. 

[Scott Dierking]

I will pretend that Kirk Cousins would have somehow led the Jets to mediocrity (going against the evidence of what he has done with all the teams he has been on his entire career).

That would lead m to believe that Macc would have been retained because of said miraculous mediocrity.

Now, I feel even worse.

[Warfish]

34 minutes ago, Hex said:

How about you tell us....

No, it was your claim.  If you can't support it, I consider it withdrawn.

Quote

I also don't see much in Wilson that convinces me he can win more with the Jets, but I have seen much more in total with Cousins.

No idea what you you're seeing, but there is no area where Wilson "has shown more" than even the worst of Kirk Cousins career to-date.

Quote

I understand that's how you see this. The way I see this is another losing season or two followed by wins and runs is a lot better to me than immediate better seasons but no progress.

Winning games isn't progress?

But losing them all with this year's draft pick bust de jour is?

Quote

There hasn't been much to show that the Jets will progress but there hasn't been much to show Cousins would be the guy to help the Jets progress either. 

It's almost like you think QB production doesn't matter or isn't a factor in winning games.

I tend to think upper 60% comp, 4,000+ yard, 30+ TD to 1/2 of that in INT's is a great first step to winning more games, compared to, lets say, sub 60%, 2,800 yards, 15 TD to 20 INT type production.

Quote

In the end we have 2 differing opinions, though, and that's fine with me. 

Agreed.

Seems to me like your tolerance for being a horrible team with the worst QB in the league every year for years on end is just higher than mine is at this point.

Guess we'll know "in a few more losing years" if your hope pays off this time, or if we're just in rinse-repeat mode yet again.

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

67-70% Completion Rate, 4,000-4,500 Passing Yards, 30-35 TD's to 12 or less INT's is my goal for production from the QB position.

Winning as many games as we lose is, right now, my goal for the Jets Organization.

Give us a QB who can produce to that level, and if the team is built correctly, we won't be mediocre.

 

My goal is not "production from the QB position". My goal is to win, to become a perennial contender and win Superbowls. Have the Jets done a good job to achieve my goals? No, they have not. Up until recently, they had a moron for a GM and a terrible HC. Unfortunately, I don't get to make the decisions. But I finally like the direction they are headed in. Is Zach the answer? I have no idea. He is a rookie. Would Cousins be the answer? Well it depends on the question. If I want a .500 team with a 4,000 yard QB, he is the answer. If I want to win Superbowls, he is not the answer. 

You say if you put Cousins on a team that is built correctly, the team will not be mediocre. Really? What is his excuse in Minnesota?

Cousins is one helluva .500 QB. Not my cup of tea, but apparently yours. Mazel Tov!

[Warfish]

8 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

My goal is not "production from the QB position". My goal is to win

Does having materially less and lower quality production from the QB position help teams win games?

8 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

....to become a perennial contender and win Superbowls.

How's that working out so far?  Oh, right.

8 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Have the Jets done a good job to achieve my goals? No, they have not.

Up until recently.....

Ah, the "this time it will be different" meme chestnut.

I bet communism will work this time too, after all, true communism has never been tried, and up until recently.......lol.

8 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

If I want to win Superbowls, he is not the answer.

But Zach Wilson is?

And if he's not, we'll burn another three years of our lives waiting to dump him before the next longshot kid.

And them the next guy.

And the next guy....

I once heard a great definition of insanity........

Here is an idea, how about we bring in a veteran of some quality, and start making our draft picks actually earn the right to play?