****OFFICIAL JETS VS SAINTS ATTRITION BOWL GAME THREAD****

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Ah, finger pointing. How lovely. 

I'd like to hear him clarify that. If Saleh recognizes the team needs to purge the constantly injured, not really interested in playing types of guys e.g Becton, Mims- then he could be promising. I doubt it though.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If you're going to draft a QB at # 2 overall, you're doing so with the expectation that he has enough tools to get by in the NFL that you can play him right away, or at least, maybe after sitting just a few games.

If he's not ready to play right away or early on in his rookie season, then you don't draft him # 2 overall in the first place unless perhaps you already have an established starter in place and can afford to wait a bit (No, not Darnold). 

Wilson looks like a 4th round project QB out there.  That's terrible QB evaluation and that's the even bigger problem than their plan when he arrived here. 

Yes, he should have been sitting the first few weeks.  No, that wouldn't have matter one iota when it comes to at least like 80 % of his flaws.  Sitting a few weeks wasn't going to prevent him from throwing dirtballs to checkdown receivers.  

And unlike with Darnold, the offensive coaching and supporting cast wasn't an enormous issue.  In both of those areas, the Jets are at least acceptable.  This is just Zach Wilson sucking at playing the position, plaing and simple.

That’s all fine and well, but they did draft a fourth round project at #2 and there should have been an adult in the room who could have said that starting this wee lad from Utah right off the bat is probably a bad idea. Instead, you got a pack of kids running the team who think they have an organizational redshirt year who are now getting punched in the mouth on a weekly basis by grown men, and Zach Wilson is paying the price for that. 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I'd like to hear him clarify that. If Saleh recognizes the team needs to purge the constantly injured, not really interested in playing types of guys e.g Becton, Mims- then he could be promising. I doubt it though.

Regarding Mims and Becton, their personalities might be sh*t, but they’re both high-end talents. Saleh has to coach them up. He can’t just bookshelf them and pretend they don’t exist. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

That’s all fine and well, but they did draft a fourth round project at #2 and there should have been an adult in the room who could have said that starting this wee lad from Utah right off the bat is probably a bad idea. Instead, you got a pack of kids running the team who think they have an organizational redshirt year who are now getting punched in the mouth on a weekly basis by grown men, and Zach Wilson is paying the price for that. 

I'm less worried about the price Zach Wilson is paying than I am the other 52 guys in the locker room who have no faith in the kid (and rightfully so), tbh. 

The fact that 3 other QB's looked competent under center gives me some hope about the offensive coaching in the building.  If they had sucked then, yeah, I'd give up all hope that there are any adults in the room.  Put one of those other QB's in and let's stop d**king around with Wilson for a bit so that things can cool off.  

The audition for the Week 1 job in 2022 is already underway (or should be) and Wilson is failing miserably.  It should be open tryout season.

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Regarding Mims and Becton, their personalities might be sh*t, but they’re both high-end talents. Saleh has to coach them up. He can’t just bookshelf them and pretend they don’t exist. 

Disagree. Those types of personalities cant set foot in a locker room. They bring everyone else down and basically counteract any type of culture change. New Engalnd has recognized this forever.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm less worried about the price Zach Wilson is paying than I am the other 52 guys in the locker room who have no faith in the kid (and rightfully so), tbh. 

The fact that 3 other QB's looked competent under center gives me some hope about the offensive coaching in the building.  If they had sucked then, yeah, I'd give up all hope that there are any adults in the room.  Put one of those other QB's in and let's stop d**king around with Wilson for a bit so that things can cool off.  

I’ve been saying that Mike White was the worst thing to happen to Zach Wilson. Bottom line is they ****ed up with Wilson and I don’t think they can easily put that syrup back in the bottle. Saleh has been telling us for weeks that this is a practice season, and from here on out, it’s gonna be a steady stream of guys going on IR with mysterious soft-tissue injuries. We’re never seeing Mike White again because the Bengals game clearly impacted how much patience the fans, media, and people in that building were going to have with him, and I think Zach has labored with that since he’s been back. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I’ve been saying that Mike White was the worst thing to happen to Zach Wilson. Bottom line is they ****ed up with Wilson and I don’t think they can easily put that syrup back in the bottle. Saleh has been telling us for weeks that this is a practice season, and from here on out, it’s gonna be a steady stream of guys going on IR with mysterious soft-tissue injuries. We’re never seeing Mike White again because the Bengals game clearly impacted how much patience the fans, media, and people in that building were going to have with him, and I think Zach has labored with that since he’s been back. 

Either that or Zach has flat out stunk this year, regardless of My Quite.

[Irish Jet]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We're headed into the "mutiny" segment of the season.  You cannot continue to roll Wilson out there at the expense of the 52 other guys in the locker room.  You just can't.  Any QB but Wilson needs to be under center right now. 

I mean, what is Wilson gaining out of being on the field anyways?  He's only getting worse.  

This has been evident since the Mike White game and it's only getting more apparent with each game.

These guys on offence were getting absolutely buried by fans and media for being the cause of a Zach's struggles. LaFleur too. Then they showed what they can do and you could see the love for White as a result. Saleh was recluctant to commit to Zach and it was obvious they were wary of alienating guys by just handing the job back to Zach. Then White struggles against the best pass defence in football and they had the excuse they needed. There is no f*cking way the players aren't firmly aware that they looked better with White/Flacco/Johnson. There's no way they don't talk about that.

Ty Johnson and Elijah Moore were different players with QB's who could execute the simple stuff well - The former is getting thrown under the bus today and yes he should have made some of those plays but he and others will know that a lot of these catches are more difficult than they should be, more difficult than they were when Zach was out. This is potentially really damaging to these guys. Hurting their reputation, costing them money, potentially costing them a job. They are probably pretty pissed to see Zach peddled out there each week simply because he's been anointed the saviour. It could get ugly.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Disagree. Those types of personalities cant set foot in a locker room. They bring everyone else down and basically counteract any type of culture change. New Engalnd has recognized this forever.

I get what you’re saying, but I also think Belichick has the credibility to look at a guy for ten minutes and decide that they’re irredeemable. Who the **** is Robert Saleh? You can’t discount that Mims and Becton played alright for Adam Gase. It’s not like they never showed anything. I think Saleh runs a soft camp where there’s zero urgency and there are a lot of guys on this roster who won’t respond to the country club style of coaching. Who’s screaming down Mims tonight? Mikey LaFleur? Who’s getting Becton’s doughy ass into the weight room? It’s the perennial question: who is in charge of the New York Jets tonight?

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’ve been saying that Mike White was the worst thing to happen to Zach Wilson. Bottom line is they ****ed up with Wilson and I don’t think they can easily put that syrup back in the bottle. Saleh has been telling us for weeks that this is a practice season, and from here on out, it’s gonna be a steady stream of guys going on IR with mysterious soft-tissue injuries. We’re never seeing Mike White again because the Bengals game clearly impacted how much patience the fans, media, and people in that building were going to have with him, and I think Zach has labored with that since he’s been back. 

Yep.  If the coaches are going to treat it like its all exhibition games, then we shouldn't be surprised when the players dog it in games.

And for those who still think Wilson can be "developed" or "fixed", it's not exactly a great thing for his growth when receivers are cutting off their routes because they know Wilson can't make the throw and/or its another blowout.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Either that or Zach has flat out stunk this year, regardless of My Quite.

He stunk, but people saw that the other 22-ish guys on offense weren’t that bad.

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Either that or Zach has flat out stunk this year, regardless of My Quite.

Right but White added context to that suckage for the rest of the guys in the locker room.  They've seen that a competent QB can play well and maybe win a game or 2.  So when they go from the high of that Bengals game to the low of today's game, I have to imagine it makes the players pine for one of the veteran QB's to be under center, whether that's White or not. 

And when the coaching staff seems to protect Wilson as their golden boy over everybody else in that locker room, its not a good look.  So for the players that aren't comfortable mutinying against Saleh, they certainly will mutiny against Wilson.

[RevisIsland610]

1 hour ago, heymangold said:

Simply not true.  The 2 on the first 2 drives literally hit Johnson in the hands and he dropped them.

One of them could have been thrown better. He still should have had them but help your receivers out a little. Zach sucked today. It's been a recurring problem all year. Why is that so hard for an NFL QB? I'm talking about easy passes to open receivers. 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I get what you’re saying, but I also think Belichick has the credibility to look at a guy for ten minutes and decide that they’re irredeemable. Who the **** is Robert Saleh? You can’t discount that Mims and Becton played alright for Adam Gase. It’s not like they never showed anything. I think Saleh runs a soft camp where there’s zero urgency and there are a lot of guys on this roster who won’t respond to the country club style of coaching. Who’s screaming down Mims tonight? Mikey LaFleur? Who’s getting Becton’s doughy ass into the weight room? It’s the perennial question: who is in charge of the New York Jets tonight?

@Matt39 FTR, I’m loath to disagree with you on any of this because you have a 100% accuracy rate on these things. 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Right but White added context to that suckage for the rest of the guys in the locker room.  They've seen that a competent QB can play well and maybe win a game or 2.  So when they go from the high of that Bengals game to the low of today's game, I have to imagine it makes the players pine for one of the veteran QB's to be under center, whether that's White or not. 

And when the coaching staff seems to protect Wilson as their golden boy over everybody else in that locker room, its not a good look.  So for the players that aren't comfortable mutinying against Saleh, they certainly will mutiny against Wilson.

I think the turning point for a lot of these players was when Flacco got the start against the Eagles. They knew then and there that the fix was in and it was all about getting Zach ready for ‘22. 

[jgb]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I think the turning point for a lot of these players was when Flacco got the start against the Eagles. They knew then and there that the fix was in and it was all about getting Zach ready for ‘22. 

Gutless move. People don’t follow gutless leadership.

[Larz]

9 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

This has been evident since the Mike White game and it's only getting more apparent with each game.

These guys on offence were getting absolutely buried by fans and media for being the cause of a Zach's struggles. LaFleur too. Then they showed what they can do and you could see the love for White as a result. Saleh was recluctant to commit to Zach and it was obvious they were wary of alienating guys by just handing the job back to Zach. Then White struggles against the best pass defence in football and they had the excuse they needed. There is no f*cking way the players aren't firmly aware that they looked better with White/Flacco/Johnson. There's no way they don't talk about that.

Ty Johnson and Elijah Moore were different players with QB's who could execute the simple stuff well - The former is getting thrown under the bus today and yes he should have made some of those plays but he and others will know that a lot of these catches are more difficult than they should be, more difficult than they were when Zach was out. This is potentially really damaging to these guys. Hurting their reputation, costing them money, potentially costing them a job. They are probably pretty pissed to see Zach peddled out there each week simply because he's been anointed the saviour. It could get ugly.

Are we including the game where White was exposed or just the fluke trap game for the bengals? 

[TuscanyTile2]

17 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Disagree. Those types of personalities cant set foot in a locker room. They bring everyone else down and basically counteract any type of culture change. New Engalnd has recognized this forever.

Didn't the Pats bring in Antonio Brown (admittedly they cut him shortly after)?  And wasn't Randy Moss an ego when they brought him in too?  I feel like they think they can absorb certain guys because they have a professional locker room.

[Larz]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I think the turning point for a lot of these players was when Flacco got the start against the Eagles. They knew then and there that the fix was in and it was all about getting Zach ready for ‘22. 

Flacco is your starter according to your own depth chart 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Gutless move. People don’t follow gutless leadership.

I think Saleh got emasculated on that, too. I think that call came from upstairs.

[jgb]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I think Saleh got emasculated on that, too. I think that call came from upstairs.

Almost certainly. Obvious JD CYA from fumbling the QB room this off season.

[T0mShane]

Just now, Larz said:

Flacco is your starter according to your own depth chart 

They knifed Mike White. He’s never seeing the field again

[munchmemory]

Just now, T0mShane said:

They knifed Mike White. He’s never seeing the field again

Problem was that after his first game, Mike White ran the offense and showed up the Wilson pick.   At best, Mike White is a JAG.backup QB.  But that one game showed the glaring deficiencies in the Zack Wilson pick.   At that point, JD could not be embarrassed and put in the call.

[Irish Jet]

6 minutes ago, Larz said:

Are we including the game where White was exposed or just the fluke trap game for the bengals? 

I mean I literally mentioned that game in the same post.

If White was "exposed" in that game then Zach must be pretty much dead at this point given he's played as bad or worse multiple times without the exceptionally good game White had. 

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Didn't the Pats bring in Antonio Brown (admittedly they cut him shortly after)?  And wasn't Randy Moss an ego when they brought him in too?  I feel like they think they can absorb certain guys because they have a professional locker room.

Those were also hired guns. Im talking about the draft screening process. You need to identify players who live and breathe football first. Becton and Mims were obvious humps.

[BallinPB]

10 minutes ago, Larz said:

Are we including the game where White was exposed or just the fluke trap game for the bengals? 

Exposed against the best defense in the league?  I guess you can say that.  Threw for 251 yards against them still which Zach only has one game above that I believe.  Also 2nd highest against the Bills this season. 

I find it hard to believe a 400 yard passing game is a fluke.  He may not be as good as that number suggests but I don’t believe in the NFL you can luck your way to 400 yards.  

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, munchmemory said:

Problem was that after his first game, Mike White ran the offense and showed up the Wilson pick.   At best, Mike White is a JAG.backup QB.  But that one game showed the glaring deficiencies in the Zack Wilson pick.   At that point, JD could not be embarrassed and put in the call.

I also feel like the million Instagram pictures of the Jets locker room looking like Mardi Gras with Mike White as the Homecoming Queen probably rankled some cages among the higher ups. 

[RutgersJetFan]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  If the coaches are going to treat it like its all exhibition games, then we shouldn't be surprised when the players dog it in games.

And for those who still think Wilson can be "developed" or "fixed", it's not exactly a great thing for his growth when receivers are cutting off their routes because they know Wilson can't make the throw and/or its another blowout.

I don't even grasp what they are supposed to do at this point. What books or exercises does a coach use to teach the QB not to throw to a guy in the green uniform when there are three of the other uniforms surrounding him? I legit think we're like a year away from a coach having Wilson play Goldeneye to get his sh*t together and someone on here is going to actually praise him for ingenuity. 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

Exposed against the best defense in the league?  I guess you can say that.  Threw for 251 yards against them still which Zach only has one game able that I believe.  Also 2nd highest against the Bills this season. 

I find it hard to believe a 400 yard passing game is a fluke. 

Also dropped a dime TD against the Colts the next week while stepping up in the pocket against 6’7” DeForest Buckner.

[Larz]

5 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I mean I literally mentioned that game in the same post.

If White was "exposed" in that game then Zach must be pretty much dead at this point given he's played as bad or worse multiple times without the exceptionally good game White had. 

Is hitting the check down 12 times exceptional? Yes he was exposed because he’s limited athletically. Wilson has better mobility and significantly better arm talent. 
 

he’s ****ed mentally but he has rare ability. 
 

there are 250 Mike whites out there. There are 50 Zach Wilson’s. 

[Larz]

5 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

Exposed against the best defense in the league?  I guess you can say that.  Threw for 251 yards against them still which Zach only has one game above that I believe.  Also 2nd highest against the Bills this season. 

I find it hard to believe a 400 yard passing game is a fluke.  He may not be as good as that number suggests but I don’t believe in the NFL you can luck your way to 400 yards.  

Please stop trying to make mirage Mike happen. It’s over

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Larz said:

Is hitting the check down 12 times exceptional?

He hit the check down 12 times for 400 yards and his Jersey is in the hall of fame.

[BallinPB]

2 minutes ago, Larz said:

Is hitting the check down 12 times exceptional? Yes he was exposed because he’s limited athletically. Wilson has better mobility and significantly better arm talent. 
 

he’s ****ed mentally but he has rare ability. 
 

there are 250 Mike whites out there. There are 50 Zach Wilson’s. 

I don’t see the better arm talent or the “rare” ability.  When has he showed this in the NFL?  

[BallinPB]

Zach Wilson couldn’t pass for 400 playing himself in Madden.  

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

Exposed against the best defense in the league?  I guess you can say that.  Threw for 251 yards against them still which Zach only has one game above that I believe.  Also 2nd highest against the Bills this season. 

I find it hard to believe a 400 yard passing game is a fluke.  He may not be as good as that number suggests but I don’t believe in the NFL you can luck your way to 400 yards.  

Yup.  If that were the case then the horrible "luck" the Jets have had in that area would be historic.  Last 400+ yard game prior to White was in 2000.  The last 400+ yard game that the Jets won was in 1998.