****OFFICIAL JETS VS SAINTS ATTRITION BOWL GAME THREAD****

[TuscanyTile2]

47 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Big picture, yeah, it’s a rookie QB struggling on a rebuilding team and all but one of the rookies looks awful so far. I do think people are being too mean to Wilson and scapegoating him for the team being trash. He’s a good, tough young dude who’s been mismanaged and is paying the price for it. 

Oh "people" are being too mean to Zach?

 

[TuscanyTile2]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t blame Wilson in this, I blame everyone who’s supposed to be in charge, starting with Saleh. As bad as Zach has been, Saleh has been worse.

"Ah, finger pointing. How lovely."

 

[T0mShane]

46 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

big picture, step back to preseason and training camp and the team’s mantra was to have the offense lift wilson so he didn’t feel he had to do it all himself.  Fast forward to after his injury.  The team’s stable of offensive weapons (dare i call them ‘weapons’) has (yet again) been depleted by injuries.  The 3 guys helping wilson this year, davis, moore and carter, are all out.  The OL has been better at pass blocking but the running game is non existent without carter, who is clearly their best rb by a lot.  TEs suck but we know this every year without looking at the roster.  Taken in aggregate, wilson does in fact feel he has to win games by himself now, yet, he also knows that forcing stupid throws will produce those multiple int games like vs NE.  So what we get is these frustratingly neutered games like yesterday, where he wants to run around and make things happen but guys like mims aren’t open and guys like Johnson can’t catch.  

Where our frustrations boil over is watching the bounce screen pass and the whiff on the wide open TE fail where it seems anyone could complete.  But again big picture, those really bad throws are a small fraction of the overall throws.  And as the wrs keep rotating and changing, it’s fair to wonder how many of these incompletions are at least partially on the wrs for not executing the routes.  Wilson has to be frustrated he really has no one to rely on in the huddle to ‘make a play’ when it’s needed.  

With all due respect, man, I don’t know how anyone watches that game yesterday and comes away thinking that it was the quarterback that was victimized. He was so bad, even in isolation. 

[Sammybighead]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

With all due respect, man, I don’t know how anyone watches that game yesterday and comes away thinking that it was the quarterback that was victimized. He was so bad, even in isolation. 

I agree, he was bad. His nerves are totally unchecked at this point and it seems to be making everything impossible for him.

Are you done with Zach? Given up hope and ready to move on? 

I’m not, every rookie deserves until end of second year to show something. You can tell me you didn’t want to draft him, that’s fine. But we did. He’s here. He deserves that fair shot. It’s hard for me to come up with examples of rookies who didn’t deserve that shot. Maybe Jachai polite because he was just a terrible pro with no redeeming qualities? That’s about all I can think of…

[Augustiniak]

29 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Except it's a frighteningly large fraction of his throws and is the same exact thing he has been doing all season long, even when everyone was healthy.  Back then, the argument was that those players all actually sucked and were at fault too, but then Mike White, Josh Johnson, and Joe Flacco all quickly proved that to be untrue.  So now it's just the next excuse-filled narrative of why it's never Wilson's fault everyone else is better at his job than he is.

It’s not reasonable to compare johnson and Flacco to wilson b/c these guys have around 30 years of experience while wilson has 8 or 9 games.  If you compare Flacco to wilson, of course Flacco will appear more decisive with better mechanics.  Besides one fluky game from white, the offense as currently constructed will not produce points for any of these qbs.  The running game will be no better with Flacco in and presumably, ty johnson would still drop those passes.  

Consider how easy it is for a defense to put your 2 best cbs on crowder and berrios.  Also consider that you don’t have to dedicate 8 guys to stopping the run.  As the jets OC I’m not sure what you can do with this grouping.  Mims is clearly a waste of a body out there.  Cole is a jag who would struggle to be the 4th/5th wr on most any other team .  At least we saw what a real wr is like when moore was out there.  That guy was getting separation and creating yac.  But even if wilson does not whiff on some of those easy throws, i don’t think the jets are scoring a td yesterday.  There’s no deep threat, no running game and no real speed.  As bad as the defense is, you have to entertain the prospect of taking a wr with the 2nd pick in the first round, so that any qb here is not throwing to berrios as the most dangerous guy on the field.

[Augustiniak]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

With all due respect, man, I don’t know how anyone watches that game yesterday and comes away thinking that it was the quarterback that was victimized. He was so bad, even in isolation. 

Qb was bad, getting no help.  If guys can catch it would produce first downs that could produce more chances.  Watching wilson in isolation, i suspect the reason behind those ‘brain fart’ throws is a lack of confidence in understanding when to rip it and when to ease up.  I think those ‘bounce’ throws are him easing up b/c he thinks he’s been throwing it too hard.  

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

It’s not reasonable to compare johnson and Flacco to wilson b/c these guys have around 30 years of experience while wilson has 8 or 9 games.  If you compare Flacco to wilson, of course Flacco will appear more decisive with better mechanics.  Besides one fluky game from white, the offense as currently constructed will not produce points for any of these qbs.  The running game will be no better with Flacco in and presumably, ty johnson would still drop those passes.  

Consider how easy it is for a defense to put your 2 best cbs on crowder and berrios.  Also consider that you don’t have to dedicate 8 guys to stopping the run.  As the jets OC I’m not sure what you can do with this grouping.  Mims is clearly a waste of a body out there.  Cole is a jag who would struggle to be the 4th/5th wr on most any other team .  At least we saw what a real wr is like when moore was out there.  That guy was getting separation and creating yac.  But even if wilson does not whiff on some of those easy throws, i don’t think the jets are scoring a td yesterday.  There’s no deep threat, no running game and no real speed.  As bad as the defense is, you have to entertain the prospect of taking a wr with the 2nd pick in the first round, so that any qb here is not throwing to berrios as the most dangerous guy on the field.

Joe Flacco started as a rookie out of Delaware a small school nothing program.  He was miles better than Zach in his rookie year.  

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Joe Flacco started as a rookie out of Delaware a small school nothing program.  He was miles better than Zach in his rookie year.  

True, on a much better team.  But that is irrelevant now.  

I look at what Trevor Lawrence is doing, playing like crap.  He was/is considered to be the best qb prospect in at least a decade.  No matter how good of a prospect a guy is, he is not going to be able to overcome an alarming lack of talent and an inept coaching staff.  

[Biggs]

19 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

True, on a much better team.  But that is irrelevant now.  

I look at what Trevor Lawrence is doing, playing like crap.  He was/is considered to be the best qb prospect in at least a decade.  No matter how good of a prospect a guy is, he is not going to be able to overcome an alarming lack of talent and an inept coaching staff.  

The Ravens team fired there HC prior to drafting Flacco and went 5 and 11.  They got the HC thing right.  

If I was to venture a guess.  Both Zach and Lawrence are being handled by HC who are clueless at the NFL level.   But of course Bill Parcells only won 3 games his first year so Saleh may be a HOF HC?

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

12 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Tevin Coleman has.sucked for a long time, what are you talking about? At this point in his career he is no spring chicken. He is a veteran brought in to help bring in the system.

What are you talking about? Teven Coleman looks like a starter or well at least has played well at times. That is better that he has been able to be for a while. That is all the comment meant.

Using statistics, show me when Coleman "has sucked for a long time." Then show me with statistics how this year is better than any other year.

 

[TuscanyTile2]

14 hours ago, JiFapono said:

How do you fix that?  How do you teach him not to suck?  This is scary bad.  I just dont get it.

Maybe if we hire John Beck to be Zach's personal QB coach.  

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

I agree, he was bad. His nerves are totally unchecked at this point and it seems to be making everything impossible for him.

Are you done with Zach? Given up hope and ready to move on? 

I’m not, every rookie deserves until end of second year to show something. You can tell me you didn’t want to draft him, that’s fine. But we did. He’s here. He deserves that fair shot. It’s hard for me to come up with examples of rookies who didn’t deserve that shot. Maybe Jachai polite because he was just a terrible pro with no redeeming qualities? That’s about all I can think of…

Yeah, we definitely have to see it through from here and hope something clicks for Wilson. I just feel like Wilson wasn’t the right guy to subject to the Jets miasma because of where he played and what would be asked of him. Once we lost out on Lawrence, we should have punted the QB decision for a year to allow Saleh to get his beak wet as an NFL HC. Instead, we have Zach ******* Saleh and Saleh ******* Zach and it probably doesn’t end well for either of them. I’d give strong consideration to trading Wilson if the opportunity arises after this season, simply for his sake

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, we definitely have to see it through from here and hope something clicks for Wilson. I just feel like Wilson wasn’t the right guy to subject to the Jets miasma because of where he played and what would be asked of him. Once we lost out on Lawrence, we should have punted the QB decision for a year to allow Saleh to get his beak wet as an NFL HC. Instead, we have Zach ******* Saleh and Saleh ******* Zach and it probably doesn’t end well for either of them. I’d give strong consideration to trading Wilson if the opportunity arises after this season, simply for his sake

Beyond saleh and Zach, the abject failure of the 2020 draft class is the most alarming thing to me.  The useless trio of becton/mims/Perine has put undue pressure on the 2022 draft class and FA to address positions that were once again not fixed with high draft picks.  Does anyone here really think becton is a long term solution at either tackle at this point?  I’ve lost all hope that mims can be salvaged even as a #3 wr.  Perine has been replaced by just about anyone not named ty johnson.  It’s terrible.  I thought we had a gm.  Now we have all these picks in 2022 but tackle is still a question mark, wr is a glaring need and the team still needs a massive infusion of defensive front 7 talent to make it respectable.  Wilson has definitely disappointed this season, and some of those brain fart throws are alarming.  But i have more faith that wilson can morph into an average qb over time, somewhere, if not the jets - than i have faith that douglas will finally figure out how to stock the team with legitimate offensive weapons for the the qbs AND fix the run defense which was at least decent under our former hcs Rex/bowles/gase.

[BornJetsFan1983]

11 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Using statistics, show me when Coleman "has sucked for a long time." Then show me with statistics how this year is better than any other year.

 

Google?

[BornJetsFan1983]

6 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

Beyond saleh and Zach, the abject failure of the 2020 draft class is the most alarming thing to me.  The useless trio of becton/mims/Perine has put undue pressure on the 2022 draft class and FA to address positions that were once again not fixed with high draft picks.  Does anyone here really think becton is a long term solution at either tackle at this point?  I’ve lost all hope that mims can be salvaged even as a #3 wr.  Perine has been replaced by just about anyone not named ty johnson.  It’s terrible.  I thought we had a gm.  Now we have all these picks in 2022 but tackle is still a question mark, wr is a glaring need and the team still needs a massive infusion of defensive front 7 talent to make it respectable.  Wilson has definitely disappointed this season, and some of those brain fart throws are alarming.  But i have more faith that wilson can morph into an average qb over time, somewhere, if not the jets - than i have faith that douglas will finally figure out how to stock the team with legitimate offensive weapons for the the qbs AND fix the run defense which was at least decent under our former hcs Rex/bowles/gase.

Someone has made the case that mims fit Gase system and was the type of player Gase wanted. But dude seem alike a disasters on the field and you think a tall wr could fit any system. Guy seems like a draft bust. Happens not sure what you expected. But becton yeah I think will be answer for us and perine seems like trash hit player decent when got the opp yesterday. So I don't know, but Saleh certianally seemed like he wanted Carter bad. Seems to me Joe is a great gm and got the coach his player...just like he did with mims and perine

 

 

[nj meadowlands]

Ban Shane from starting the game thread 

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

Ban Shane from starting the game thread 

They beat Houston with him "at the helm"

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

11 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Google?

I already used Google, and you were proven wrong. Want to attempt to prove your case? You made the claim, so you have to back it up.

 

23 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Tevin Coleman has.sucked for a long time, what are you talking about? At this point in his career he is no spring chicken. He is a veteran brought in to help bring in the system.

What are you talking about? Teven Coleman looks like a starter or well at least has played well at times. That is better that he has been able to be for a while. That is all the comment meant.

This was your quote. Show me where Tevin Coleman "has sucked".

[BornJetsFan1983]

8 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I already used Google, and you were proven wrong. Want to attempt to prove your case? You made the claim, so you have to back it up.

 

This was your quote. Show me where Tevin Coleman "has sucked".

Is this serious?

How am I proven wrong? wtf are you talking about. you obviously didn't use google. Or anything for that matter. But do not fear I have inmputed "tevon coleman stats" for you in google and attached the screen shot. Let me know if you have any questions. Look at ave yards , games started etc. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ColeTe01.htm

 

You are welcome!

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

8 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I already used Google, and you were proven wrong. Want to attempt to prove your case? You made the claim, so you have to back it up.

 

This was your quote. Show me where Tevin Coleman "has sucked".

Also because you probably don't follow much football, being a casual fan, His troubles started in ATL. then SF , plus injuries...then now here in NY. 

I guess somehow you missed him losing the starting role on our team to rooks and jags. But you can see the run game plan and team got him to respectable numbers in his limited opportunities later in the year. 

Very pleasantly surprised how well he has performed for us under Saleh after his initial start of the season. He looked every bit of trash as he has the last couple years only to out perform his talent and ability here. 

Man you sure love you some suck players. Berrrios not COleman. Let me ask you who else did you like? SHould we bring back gholston or maybe stefan? lol

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Also because you probably don't follow much football, being a casual fan, His troubles started in ATL. then SF , plus injuries...then now here in NY. 

I guess somehow you missed him losing the starting role on our team to rooks and jags. But you can see the run game plan and team got him to respectable numbers in his limited opportunities later in the year. 

Very pleasantly surprised how well he has performed for us under Saleh after his initial start of the season. He looked every bit of trash as he has the last couple years only to out perform his talent and ability here. 

Man you sure love you some suck players. Berrrios not COleman. Let me ask you who else did you like? SHould we bring back gholston or maybe stefan? lol

Based on how little you know about football, I'm guessing that this is the first time you have watched any games.

You were DESTROYED in the Berrios thread by everyone who responded. I give you credit for continuing to post after being made to look foolish time after time.

Answer my question. When did Coleman look bad  on other teams, and what makes you think he has looked good this year as compared to his other years? He has done better in the past which makes your narrative crumble. 

 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Is this serious?

How am I proven wrong? wtf are you talking about. you obviously didn't use google. Or anything for that matter. But do not fear I have inmputed "tevon coleman stats" for you in google and attached the screen shot. Let me know if you have any questions. Look at ave yards , games started etc. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ColeTe01.htm

 

You are welcome!

 

You just proved yourself wrong again! You are astoundingly bad at this. 

[phill1c]

On 12/12/2021 at 4:13 PM, RSJ said:

Bro they are worse than last season.

Bro, you sound dumb. They are at least 2 games better than last year.

All that other nonsense is just that, nonsense.

[phill1c]

On 12/12/2021 at 4:08 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

The longer Wilson continues to suck like this, the more the rest of the team is going to turn on him and the coaches.

You have to put someone new in just to ensure the locker room doesn’t cave in. 

And today, your comments seem oh-so-irrelevant

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

And today, your comments seem oh-so-irrelevant

Yes so much has changed in the last 3 weeks.  One triumphant performance out of another by our young QB!

Keep this same energy the final 2 weeks when Wilson has to go up against real defenses. 

[phill1c]

I will. I understand how growth occurs, through experience.

It's amazing how many Jets "fans" have some grudge, some vendetta, some animosity, to the franchise QB they had to have. 

I truly understand how difficult it is to make a whole team from scratch and how players have to learn through experience.

Apparently, many on this forum are way too stupid to know these obvious truths.

[undertow]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes so much has changed in the last 3 weeks.  One triumphant performance out of another by our young QB!

Keep this same energy the final 2 weeks when Wilson has to go up against real defenses. 

People are really beating their chest around here over a 100 yard passing game. ?

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, phill1c said:

I will. I understand how growth occurs, through experience.

It's amazing how many Jets "fans" have some grudge, some vendetta, some animosity, to the franchise QB they had to have. 

I truly understand how difficult it is to make a whole team from scratch and how players have to learn through experience.

Apparently, many on this forum are way too stupid to know these obvious truths.

Awfully haughty take from a guy who…let me guess… coaches at the High School level?  Tell us more how football works.  

This isn’t the first rodeo we’ve had here.  People made condescending post after condescending post to me and others about Sam Darnold and how others know nothing about football if they didn’t see he was improving or was secretly good.  

[phill1c]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Awfully haughty take from a guy who…let me guess… coaches at the High School level?  Tell us more how football works.  

This isn’t the first rodeo we’ve had here.  People made condescending post after condescending post to me and others about Sam Darnold and how others know nothing about football if they didn’t see he was improving or was secretly good.  

I literally care ZERO about your experience on this forum that is not a response to an opinion I have. That others thought you ridiculous probably means, if it's here where you heard it, it's true. Or not. Maybe you're smart. I don't know. It's not clear from the comments.

I had no love for Darnold. He never got up for a game. Never outplayed a guy in his draft class. Had Mono. So, why are you crying about what someone said about your opinion of Darnold to me?

Wilson is improving. And has all the skills you want in a Franchise QB. That people can't wait for him to improve quickly enough is really about their own impatience and unrealistic expectations. 

[TuscanyTile2]

On 12/12/2021 at 2:40 PM, T0mShane said:

Shaq is worse than Affleck. Just a big, smug, mumbling douche. 

On 12/12/2021 at 2:42 PM, TuscanyTile2 said:

Nah, Shaq is awesome.  He has an amazing sense of humor about himself (did you ever Jeff Ross roast him at the Emmit Smith Roast?), doesn't want to be thought of as a celebrity, and I think he legitimately cares about giving back to the community.

Plus he's humble

 

[Hal N of Provo]

On 12/13/2021 at 7:33 AM, TuscanyTile2 said:

Oh "people" are being too mean to Zach?

 

???