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A stroll down memory lane


AFJF
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4 hours ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

I am saying the 2019 team would beat this team in a head to head match up and I have no doubt about that.

This team is one of the worst i can ever remember in my jets fandom. It's by far the worst defense.

So either saleh is completley inept as a coach or this team isnt talented.  Because if this roster is allegedly so much better, why is the product on the field so bad?

And im saying I would rather go forward with the young talent and the plan to continue to add to it, the QB, the offense and the CS.  Theyre building for the long term, the 2019 team wasnt close to being part of a long term plan.

If you think this is the worst team in your Jets fandom, it hasnt been that long a fandom

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5 hours ago, AFJF said:


Offense went from worst in the NFL to low 20's with a rookie QB out of a small school.  That's not an insignificant amount of improvement.  When more experienced passers were on the field, it was one of the most productive offenses in the NFL.  The rookie QB just played his best game as a pro in what was only his 7th game.

Be as mad as you like.  Still work to be done but I'm pretty happy.

The only reason the Jets arent dead last in offense is because Zach got injured.  The points a game went up and the yards per game all went up enough to take them out of last place and as soon as Zach came back in....the offense production consequently dropped.

511 yards - 32 pts, 486 yards - 30pts, 366 yards - 22pts, 380 yards - 18pts. - all with Zach out.

266 yards - 21 pts, 281 - 18pts. w/ Zach back in.

So while I appreciate what you're trying to do and be the optimist, it's a disingenuous to act like Zach had any part in this offense improving.

 

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You guys are funny... 2019 in no way is a better team, and it starts with and ends with GASE. Saleh and his defensive staff might not be the answer, but I like what I've seen from LaFleur after the first 5 games, and I think we can all agree with that. That alone puts this team in a much better position than the 2019 team. I agree all the pieces are not there yet, but i have much higher hopes for ML and what he can put together on offense, than GASE and the Beave....

I think Saleh is going to have to take an active role in the defense this offseason and sit down with Ulbich if he chooses not to fire him and figure out what went wrong and figure out how to fix it.

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7 hours ago, AFJF said:

So this is the roster some expected to be competing for a playoff spot within 2+ years?

 

QB: Darnold - Trevor Siemian - Luke Falk - David Fails

RB: Bell - Powell - Adams - Cannon

WR: Robby - 

WR: DT (RIP) - 

WR: Crowder - 

TE: Griffin - 

LT: Beachum - 

LG: Lewis - 

RG: Harrison - 

RT: Shell - 

 

DE: Henry Anderson

DT: McLendon

DE: Quinnen Williams (Hey, there's one!)

OLB: Jordan Jenkins

ILB: James Burgess

ILB: Neville Hewitt

OLB: Blake Cashman

CB1: Trumaine Johnson

CB2: Darrly Roberts

Slot: Poole (He was good)

This is making me nauseous...here's the link.

2019 New York Jets Starters, Roster, & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

I see you left off the greatest safety in the nay tion.

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43 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed. The roster Gase had to work with was all-rime awful and Saleh’s roster is significantly better than that one. Mike Maccagnan was the worst GM in the history of sport

Agreed.  Significantly better in 2+ years.  Joe D finds himself another 3 high level starters in the draft again next season with a few pieces in free agency and this team should perform at a much higher level.

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11 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

The only reason the Jets arent dead last in offense is because Zach got injured.  The points a game went up and the yards per game all went up enough to take them out of last place and as soon as Zach came back in....the offense production consequently dropped.

511 yards - 32 pts, 486 yards - 30pts, 366 yards - 22pts, 380 yards - 18pts. - all with Zach out.

266 yards - 21 pts, 281 - 18pts. w/ Zach back in.

So while I appreciate what you're trying to do and be the optimist, it's a disingenuous to act like Zach had any part in this offense improving.

 

I agree that in  his first six NFL starts, Zach Wilson out of BYU was not very good.  Last week he was very good in his 7th NFL start.  This week he probably takes a step back with Keelan Cole going from WR4 to WR1 and RB3 and RB4 moving up to RB1 and RB2.  Might even see Perine get a carry today.

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54 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Damn, bro, that's a heavy hitting take!   

.....but, the link you provided took me to the page of the 2019 New York Jets, so I assumed you were talking about that particular team, and on that page is says that the NY Jets of 2019 won 7 games, which is more than 3 and I assume, by your outstandingly profound logic provided above that the '19 team was, as you say, better. 

The 2019 roster was the one they finished the season with.  The 2020 roster was the 2019 roster plus the players added via draft and free agency.  Douglas was hired after both of those happened, meaning he added a few guys off the scrap heap and the other 50 or so players were from the other guy.

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28 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

The only reason the Jets arent dead last in offense is because Zach got injured.  The points a game went up and the yards per game all went up enough to take them out of last place and as soon as Zach came back in....the offense production consequently dropped.

511 yards - 32 pts, 486 yards - 30pts, 366 yards - 22pts, 380 yards - 18pts. - all with Zach out.

266 yards - 21 pts, 281 - 18pts. w/ Zach back in.

So while I appreciate what you're trying to do and be the optimist, it's a disingenuous to act like Zach had any part in this offense improving.

 

They’re averaging a little over 15 ppg in games that Zachopono starts, removing the Pats game where he got injured early on. If he had started the whole season, this year’s offense would average the same ppg as last year’s offense, with a defense that is actually worse. Progress, though. 

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25 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I agree that in  his first six NFL starts, Zach Wilson out of BYU was not very good.  Last week he was very good in his 7th NFL start.  This week he probably takes a step back with Keelan Cole going from WR4 to WR1 and RB3 and RB4 moving up to RB1 and RB2.  Might even see Perine get a carry today.

I feel terrible that Zach has to throw to veterans WR's who have caught a ton of balls from sh*tty QB's their entire career like Crowder and Cole and potentially target a player he really likes in Berrios.  It's terrible that he has to hand off to a veteran like Tevon Coleman and Ty Johnson and throw to veteran TE like Ryan Griffin, playing behind a veteran led OL.  It's truly a tragedy.

 

19 minutes ago, AFJF said:

The 2019 roster was the one they finished the season with.  The 2020 roster was the 2019 roster plus the players added via draft and free agency.  Douglas was hired after both of those happened, meaning he added a few guys off the scrap heap and the other 50 or so players were from the other guy.

Oh, so the thread you started with a link to the 2019 roster was really a thread started about the 2020 roster.

Got it!  Makes total sense. 

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7 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Go look at the Cardinals roster the year they went 3-13.

Or the Browns when they went 0-16. Two years later they were competitive.

Stop making excuses. Overhauls can and do happen in the NFL. Douglas has put together his roster and done it exceptionally badly.

Took three years for each of those teams to post a winning season. Jets are in the first year (like it or don’t) of what they hope will be a similar trajectory. In the .500 range next season, legitimately competing in 2023. 

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14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They’re averaging a little over 15 ppg in games that Zachopono starts, removing the Pats game where he got injured early on. If he had started the whole season, this year’s offense would average the same ppg as last year’s offense, with a defense that is actually worse. Progress, though. 

The strange part about this thread and the response of the OP (who I'm confident starts these threads just to make snarky comments to anyone who disagrees, while changing the goal posts, I may add) is that I actually agreed with what his original point and said so in my first post, he just ignored that part because he just wants to be snarky.  I dont agree with how he got there but I do agree with the point he's trying to make. 

I do think this roster is in a much better position to improve than the 2019 or 2020 or whatever year we are talking about, I'd still take this roster over both.  Doesnt mean I think they would win a head-to-head match up because this D is all time dreadful and I think Williams could take advantage of Wilson but if we're just asking which roster you would take moving forward, 100% it this one because of the youth and what I believe will be cornerstone pieces to this team ie; AVT, Carter, Moore, Hall, Williams x2,hopefully Wilson etc. and when you add int he draft capital next season, it's really not a debate.  Again, just weird mental gymnastics to get there when the point could have been made in a much easier to digest manner. 

 

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7 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Go look at the Cardinals roster the year they went 3-13.

Or the Browns when they went 0-16. Two years later they were competitive.

Stop making excuses. Overhauls can and do happen in the NFL. Douglas has put together his roster and done it exceptionally badly.

Yes, the Browns when 0-16 and then was competitive 3 years later - they went 0-16, then 7-8, then 6-10, before going 11-5, but to be fair they were terrible before 0-16, they were 3-13, then 1-15 before that. So, yeah, 3 years after 1-15 they went to playoffs, but they had two terrible years before that.

So, the jets went 2-14 last year, this year we will be at least 3-14; so to match Cleveland, we should be terrible a few more years? Even if we are comparing our 3+ win season with their 0-16 season, we will still have under .500 games for two more years before going to the playoffs - you up for that? To say it took 2 years for Cleveland to turn it around is cherry picking - took 3 years, really, they took 6 from first really bad year to really good year.

Next year being about 500 and then playoffs the following year would be faster than Cleveland if you are being fair.

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26 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

The strange part about this thread and the response of the OP (who I'm confident starts these threads just to make snarky comments to anyone who disagrees, while changing the goal posts, I may add) is that I actually agreed with what his original point and said so in my first post, he just ignored that part because he just wants to be snarky.  I dont agree with how he got there but I do agree with the point he's trying to make. 

I do think this roster is in a much better position to improve than the 2019 or 2020 or whatever year we are talking about, I'd still take this roster over both.  Doesnt mean I think they would win a head-to-head match up because this D is all time dreadful and I think Williams could take advantage of Wilson but if we're just asking which roster you would take moving forward, 100% it this one because of the youth and what I believe will be cornerstone pieces to this team ie; AVT, Carter, Moore, Hall, Williams x2,hopefully Wilson etc. and when you add int he draft capital next season, it's really not a debate.  Again, just weird mental gymnastics to get there when the point could have been made in a much easier to digest manner. 

 

I won’t speak for @AFJF, but I think we all agree that this roster is better than the 2019 roster, but he doesn’t want to answer as to why the results aren’t better (they are, in fact, much worse). As I recall from the old Mangini/Rex battles I used to have with him and @slats, Glenn thinks that roster building happens in a vacuum and  not on a continuum—Rex showed up and made the team good; Saleh showed up and the team is now better. Not that anyone has to credit Gase or Mangini with doing the yeoman work of a rebuild, but razing the ground at Florham Park isn’t easy with these halfwit owners and a fanbase that (mostly) parachutes into MetLife in September expecting playoff runs. 

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38 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I won’t speak for @AFJF, but I think we all agree that this roster is better than the 2019 roster, but he doesn’t want to answer as to why the results aren’t better (they are, in fact, much worse). As I recall from the old Mangini/Rex battles I used to have with him and @slats, Glenn thinks that roster building happens in a vacuum and  not on a continuum—Rex showed up and made the team good; Saleh showed up and the team is now better. Not that anyone has to credit Gase or Mangini with doing the yeoman work of a rebuild, but razing the ground at Florham Park isn’t easy with these halfwit owners and a fanbase that (mostly) parachutes into MetLife in September expecting playoff runs. 

I'm sure somebody in this very thread said this team is no better than the one Douglas inherited and I've heard/seen others say it several times this season.  That's an insane notion and the reason I started the thread.

Why aren't the results better?  On offense, they are better.  Much better.  From dead last to the low 20's and five games remaining after the kid QB just played his best game as a pro.  

On defense?  Maybe Saleh was overrated?  He arrived with a rep as a defensive genius and his defense has been horrible.  We'll know in time.
 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Took three years for each of those teams to post a winning season. Jets are in the first year (like it or don’t) of what they hope will be a similar trajectory. In the .500 range next season, legitimately competing in 2023. 

They were competitive two years later. The Browns lost only 7 games. 

They weren’t atill a running joke the way we were. Seems like the trajectory you’re targeting is exactly what they done in two years. But then again I do forget this is year zero…

 

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The bar is so low people think because we drafted a few good players JD is a genius and we now have the building blocks for a dynasty...news flash every team in the league has a Elijah Moore and a Michael Carter we aren't that special we actually have the least amount of young talent in the league.....and other teams didn't even need to tank 2 seasons for it.

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10 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Go look at the Cardinals roster the year they went 3-13.

Or the Browns when they went 0-16. Two years later they were competitive.

Stop making excuses. Overhauls can and do happen in the NFL. Douglas has put together his roster and done it exceptionally badly.

Thank you... at least someone gets it. 

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