Where do you stand on ZW?

[jamesr]

11 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

He was awful today. But he's a rookie QB. Giving up on him this early is ridiculous. 

The Cardinals only did it because they had the 1st pick and loved Kyler Murray. You need to give a rookie QB 2-3 years in most cases. 

Like a lot of folks I'm not liking what I see, but I agree it's far too early to give up. There's no-one coming out this year that is anywhere close to a Murray type QB, so I can't see us using a draft pick to replace him. Especially with all the other needs that we have.

Just got to keep hoping that things improve for him ... time away from the game during the offseason may be what he needs to settle down, study hard and come back for a fresh start next year.

[Jetluv58]

8 hours ago, Lith said:

Since 2009, there have been 39 rookie QBs who have started at least 9 games.  Looking at all their stats after 9, Zach ranks

• 34th in passer rating (65.6)
• 32nd in Yards per Attempt (6.1)
• 36th in TD % (2.1%)
• 31st in Int % (3.9%)
• 28th in completion % (56%)

Other guys who are consistently ranked in the bottom 10 with Wilson:

Geno Smith
Blake Bortles
Josh Freeman
Josh Rosen
Matthew Stafford
Josh Allen
Blaine Gabbert
Jimmy Clausen
DeShone Kizer
 

I want him to be good.  I am rooting for him every week.  But he has not been.  Deck was stacked against him today, but when he had time, and open receivers, he was inaccurate.  Better decision making, but bad inaccurate throws. 

9 games in, the book is not written, but most of the guys who have performed at same level as Zach are not starting caliber QBs.  This is what I fear Wilson will be.  Hope I am wrong.

 

Come to think of it, he’ll ultimately end up in the broadcast booth. Looks, well-spoken, good knowledge of the game, affable. He’ll be a broadcaster.

[jgb]

31 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Like a lot of folks I'm not liking what I see, but I agree it's far too early to give up. There's no-one coming out this year that is anywhere close to a Murray type QB, so I can't see us using a draft pick to replace him. Especially with all the other needs that we have.

Just got to keep hoping that things improve for him ... time away from the game during the offseason may be what he needs to settle down, study hard and come back for a fresh start next year.

No one (or at least, very few) are "giving up." This is just an attempt by his most ardent defenders to shut down legitimate criticism.

[rangerous]

12 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

There are a bunch of decent qb free agents this off-season. Jacoby brissett, Jameis Winston, teddy bridgewater, tyrod Taylor, Mitch trubisky , nick foles. 

also could trade a 3 or 4 for jimmy G.

one of those guys should be brought in to compete/ push Wilson. 

maybe.  trubitsky seems to be a good choice.  he wasn't as bad as they all think in chicago.  winston?  maybe .  both of those guys would benefit from a strong run game.

[CanadaSteve]

19 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Going to he difficult to evaluate the rest of the year with the cast of clowns left at wr and rb.

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Well, the first dozen games with the cast of starters didn't seem to help him, so......

[Green Ghost]

8 hours ago, jgb said:

No one (or at least, very few) are "giving up." This is just an attempt by his most ardent defenders to shut down legitimate criticism.

put me solidly in the group that have given up on Wilson. 

I’ve seen enough. ?

 

[CTJetsFan]

Starting a rookie QB with a 1st time HC and offensive coordinator on one of (if not) the youngest teams in the NFL. And then the QB coach dies just before the season What could go wrong?

[Skeet Ulrich]

Haven't seen much of him(can't stand watching the Jets so most of my Sunday is spent watching NFL Redzone), whenever they cut to the Jets I see him throwing an awful pick or a ball in the dirt nowhere near the reciever.

Giving him a pass on the rookie year but he better get a hell of a lot better really fast.

 

[Green Ghost]

1 hour ago, CTJetsFan said:

Starting a rookie QB with a 1st time HC and offensive coordinator on one of (if not) the youngest teams in the NFL. And then the QB coach dies just before the season What could go wrong?

Apparently everything.

Nice plan JD.

[RSJ]

I still kind of stand exactly where I was pre draft. I highly question his arm strength. I know about his highlights- but it seems to me there is a huge drop off in arm strength when his arm and body aren’t exactly perfect. Maybe that will look better when he gets to know the offense and play with more confidence. I dont study him enough to know if its his feet or body causing this phenomenon- but it definitely exists.


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[UntouchableCrew]

1. I was adamant that we move on from Darnold and draft a new QB. I preferred Fields, but was fine with Wilson too.

2. No. He looks completely lost and in over his head. Will be a miraculous turnaround story if he ends up being good.

3. I honestly think you have to. I don't see how you just hand to the job to him -- it's an insult to the rest of the players.

4. I think given what has transpired you kind of have to stick with him and see if he comes into 2022 looking totally fresh/different. Unless someone is willing to give up a lot for him which I doubt I don't see tremendous value to dumping him.

[UntouchableCrew]

4 minutes ago, RSJ said:

I still kind of stand exactly where I was pre draft. I highly question his arm strength. I know about his highlights- but it seems to me there is a huge drop off in arm strength when his arm and body aren’t exactly perfect. Maybe that will look better when he gets to know the offense and play with more confidence. I dont study him enough to know if its his feet or body causing this phenomenon- but it definitely exists.


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I feel like his arm strength might literally be the only part of him I don't question.

[RSJ]

I feel like his arm strength might literally be the only part of him I don't question.

Yeah I think when everything is set just right its definitely there. But when its not he has trouble. There have been a lot of examples of what I am talking about throughout the season. But one from yesterday was the throw to the TE that ended up in the dirt. There was literally nothing on that throw. The swing pass to Berios was similar. I question just his natural ability to throw a football with just his arm.


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[jgb]

Where do I stand?

As a fan -- rooting for him to become the MOAO (Mother of All Outliers) QB turnaround story.

Realistically -- six feet above him shoveling in dirt.

[Coffee Is Great]

23 hours ago, BallinPB said:

I know one thing.  I don’t see the progress everyone was telling me about last week.  
 

If he plays at this level the rest of the year I wouldn’t mind if they moved away from him after only one year.  

Progress and development are not linear things. He was better last week, he sucked yesterday. It will be like that.

Overall, I'm not going to truly judge him until next season, but there are plenty of red flags and it's valid to think he isn't the answer at QB. His complete lack of touch and his accuracy are the biggest concerns for me, even more than reading the defense. The latter is to be expected given the college system he played in and is a normal developmental issue for many young QBs. The fact that he routinely struggles to hit wide open guys on easy throws within 5 yards of the LOS is a huge concern for me.

[IndianaJet]

18 minutes ago, RSJ said:

 

Yeah I think when everything is set just right its definitely there. But when its not he has trouble. There have been a lot of examples of what I am talking about throughout the season. But one from yesterday was the throw to the TE that ended up in the dirt. There was literally nothing on that throw. The swing pass to Berios was similar. I question just his natural ability to throw a football with just his arm.


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To me, that's not about arm strength.  In fact, it maybe just the opposite.  It's the inability to be accurate when he's not putting 90%+ on his throws.

It's a stupid example, but I'll give it to you.  I play 3rd base and sometimes pitch for my Firm's slow pitch softball team.

When playing 3rd, I have no trouble throwing piss missiles to first without even thinking.  I just cock back, throw and 99% of the time it's chest high to the first baseman.  However, when I pitch and get a grounder back to me, I know the distance between me and the first baseman is way too close to fire one off.  But if I try to throw it overhand with decreased velocity it ends usually ends up 3 feet in front of the first baseman.  Call it the yips, call it whatever, I have trouble making that short toss with some touch.  Instead, I usually just run halfway to the base and underhand it to the first baseman.

I see the same thing with Zach.  He, for whatever reason, can't make those short soft toss plays.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Some interesting results in the poll.

Apparently half the people on this board didn’t want to draft Wilson at 2. Im not sure some of you are being completely honest lol. Last march or April I’d say it was probably a 70 / 30 split. I didn’t want Wilson and I was definitely in the minority at the time.

76% of the board doesn’t think Zach Wilson is a franchise qb or are atleast very concerned with his progress thus far. And 24% of the board thinks he is or will become a franchise qb

1/4 of the board is already willing to move on from Wilson, while 75 % of posters are willing to give him atleast another year (I think 25% is actually a pretty high number considering he was the number 2 overall pick just 8 months ago

And 82% of you thinks JD should bring in a veteran to compete with and push Wilson next year. 

[RSJ]

To me, that's not about arm strength.  In fact, it maybe just the opposite.  It's the inability to be accurate when he's not putting 90%+ on his throws.
It's a stupid example, but I'll give it to you.  I play 3rd base and sometimes pitch for my Firm's slow pitch softball team.
When playing 3rd, I have no trouble throwing piss missiles to first without even thinking.  I just cock back, throw and 99% of the time it's chest high to the first baseman.  However, when I pitch and get a grounder back to me, I know the distance between me and the first baseman is way too close to fire one off.  But if I try to throw it overhand with decreased velocity it ends usually ends up 3 feet in front of the first baseman.  Call it the yips, call it whatever, I have trouble making that short toss with some touch.  Instead, I usually just run halfway to the base and underhand it to the first baseman.
I see the same thing with Zach.  He, for whatever reason, can't make those short soft toss plays.

Thats not a stupid example at all. It actually makes a lot of sense. You could be exactly right. For Zach maybe its not the position change. Maybe its the anticipation, eye placement or speed of the game that is causing a similar type of thing. Also those types of things could be similar to the baseball position change. Zach threw with touch in college. But even there if you watch his full games you will see throws that just dont have anything on them. Not as often as in the NFL but you would see them.


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[jgb]

9 hours ago, rangerous said:

maybe.  trubitsky seems to be a good choice.  he wasn't as bad as they all think in chicago.  winston?  maybe .  both of those guys would benefit from a strong run game.

So awesome to see the tide of inevitability sweep the masses to my feet 

[kevinc855]

1) No I was on the trade the 2 pick for a haul

2) To early but early returns are not good

3) JD HAS to this year. 

4) Not yet, but if hes still bad by week 5-6 next year, hook him. 

[RSJ]

Some interesting results in the poll.

Apparently half the people on this board didn’t want to draft Wilson at 2. Im not sure some of you are being completely honest lol. Last march or April I’d say it was probably a 70 / 30 split. I didn’t want Wilson and I was definitely in the minority at the time.
76% of the board doesn’t think Zach Wilson is a franchise qb or are atleast very concerned with his progress thus far. And 24% of the board thinks he is or will become a franchise qb
1/4 of the board is already willing to move on from Wilson, while 75 % of posters are willing to give him atleast another year (I think 25% is actually a pretty high number considering he was the number 2 overall pick just 8 months ago
And 82% of you thinks JD should bring in a veteran to compete with and push Wilson next year. 

My opinion was totally dismissed by almost everyone on this board when I said I didnt want Wilson. None of us know whether he will be good - but I just think it’s easier and better to get everything else right then add the QB and RB at the end. I am hopeful Wilson will be good and he definitely has more talent than any QB since Pennington


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[rangerous]

27 minutes ago, jgb said:

So awesome to see the tide of inevitability sweep the masses to my feet 

nah.  i just know these things can be fleeting.  no real knock on wilson.  i'm not qualified to judge whether or not he's going to be good next season but there are some solid experienced qb's that might just work as a hedge against wilson failing.  but even there, i think mike white would've had a better time yesterday.

[jgb]

21 minutes ago, rangerous said:

nah.  i just know these things can be fleeting.  no real knock on wilson.  i'm not qualified to judge whether or not he's going to be good next season but there are some solid experienced qb's that might just work as a hedge against wilson failing.  but even there, i think mike white would've had a better time yesterday.

This is almost verbatim what I posted to much gnashing of teeth this off season.

[Dunnie]

Well, the first dozen games with the cast of starters didn't seem to help him, so......

Dude .. newsflash .. those were his forst five games as a rookie.

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[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Dude .. newsflash .. those were his worst five games as a rookie.

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Yeah, that's the point. 

If he had his worst games with good players, and he hasn't shown much since coming back from injury.  So, what is there to 'evaluate?'

[Dunnie]

Yeah, that's the point. 
If he had his worst games with good players, and he hasn't shown much since coming back from injury.  So, what is there to 'evaluate?'

First five games in his career he played like a rookie surprised you ?



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[jgb]

13 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

First five games in his career he played like a rookie surprised you ?



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He can't deliver dump offs and gimmes with consistency... that's not "playing like a rookie," that's playing like a guy who forgot how to play the position.

Wilson needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Does anyone really have confidence in the Jets to succeed in such an endeavor? He's not doing anything well (read: consistently well) at the moment. The criticism and skepticism is warranted.

[Dunnie]

He can't deliver dump offs and gimmes with consistency... that's not "playing like a rookie," that's playing like a guy who forgot how to play the position.
Wilson needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Does anyone really have confidence in the Jets to succeed in such an endeavor? He's not doing anything well (read: consistently well) at the moment. The criticism and skepticism is warranted.

I cant argue .. i think their is truth is what we are both saying.

The talent is there ... but he does need to continue to improve and .. definitely the short game is the place the improvment MUST get MUCH better.

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[jgb]

Just now, Dunnie said:

I cant argue .. i think their is truth is what we are both saying.

The talent is there ... but he does need to continue to improve and .. definitely the short game is the place the improvment MUST get MUCH better.

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The talent is always there for a top 10 QB draft pick. That's the reason they were drafted there. 

That's the ticket to the show, but now Wilson needs to play the music.

[Warfish]

Quote

Where do you stand on ZW?

I try not to stand on him, I'm pretty heavy, and I think it might hurt if I stood on him.  He seems sorta fragile.

[68JET11]

I see that kid has talent, but what I also see is that he is messed up in the head right now. A QB at this level should be able to hit a back out of the backfield. They should be able to hit a receiver in stride, and not behind him, or over his head. I have seen some good throws, but I have also seen more bad throws which baffles me for someone taken at his position. There is only one thing we can hope for at this point in time, because I do not believe we will cut bait and do an Arizona. We can only hope that he gets fixed over the offseason, and works with ML as much as he can.

[nyjunc]

He has the most talented passing arm of any QB I've ever seen play in a Jets uniform(too young for namath).  He had all the tools mentally and physically to succeed.  I think he's going to be very good and this offense when healthy next year will be very, very dangerous.

[CanadaSteve]

7 hours ago, Dunnie said:

First five games in his career he played like a rookie surprised you ?



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Dude, I have been ALL over give everyone time.  This kid is LOST.  He doesn't get it.  Might he?  Sure, but there has to be a decision if this kid can find his way in time.  Like, he has been REALLY bad.

 

[BigRy56]

What I am most pleased with is that it doesn't seem like he is having a problem seeing the field. Zach does seem to be making good decisions, so he's come a way in that regard... but it does look as if accuracy has been sacrificed in the process because he's not settled in yet. IMO this will come - he didn't have an accuracy issue throughout his entire career, so the issue points to in between the ears and him needing to calm down... this will happen over time. It would also be helpful to have a consistent supporting cast around him, hopefully next year.

So overall I feel OK about Zach, because I think the hardest part of playing QB in the NFL is reading a defense and he's made a big jump there. I remember all of Darnold's career, the All-22 tape showed play after play somebody being wide open somewhere other than he threw it - this happened 5-10x a game it felt like. I don't see that with Zach.

I've said in prior threads that I want to see Wilson finish the season with more touchdowns than interceptions on the year, or at least come very close. If he does that I will feel much better about him and his overall progression. He will get next year of my continued support but if this play continues through next year, we gotta move on and hopefully it will be for a proven commodity... no more rookies who need to grow please!

[Hex]

23 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Some interesting results in the poll.

Apparently half the people on this board didn’t want to draft Wilson at 2. Im not sure some of you are being completely honest lol. Last march or April I’d say it was probably a 70 / 30 split. I didn’t want Wilson and I was definitely in the minority at the time.

76% of the board doesn’t think Zach Wilson is a franchise qb or are atleast very concerned with his progress thus far. And 24% of the board thinks he is or will become a franchise qb

1/4 of the board is already willing to move on from Wilson, while 75 % of posters are willing to give him atleast another year (I think 25% is actually a pretty high number considering he was the number 2 overall pick just 8 months ago

And 82% of you thinks JD should bring in a veteran to compete with and push Wilson next year. 

Probably because half of the people who wanted Zach are hiding right now and thus couldn't take the poll