Different perspective

[Phillyjet]

It's hard not to look at yesterday's game in a nutshell and be dispirited.  The accuracy issues that we saw from Wilson were certainly concerning.  But I offer a different perspective, and it's not one that necessarily still believes he is the savior.   Rather, coming into this game I thought it would be an interesting one from a developmental perspective.  No WR1, WR2, RB1, RB2, TE1.  What would he do?  Any QB would be in a difficult spot with that.  

He was a jittery rookie for sure; but he didn't seem overwhelmed.  The Saints DBs were all over his players.  Mims sh*t the bed.  The other guys couldn't get open.  And there were drops everywhere.  Yet, for all of that, Zach did not press.  I wished he would have gone to a hurry up a little earlier to try to get into a rhythm, but that's on LaFleur to realize that he's got to change it up when they came out flat.  But instead, he chose to play it close... did not press.  I actually thought that was a step forward.  Every qb has games like that, and recognizing that, he soldiered through.  Early in the season, this would have been a 4 INT game.  Would also have been nice to see the defense grab an INT or big play. We can count on one hand the number of turnovers by the defense this year over the course of 13 games.  Never seen that before in 40 years watching the game.   And we've had some bad teams. 

Now next week, we are likely to see the same (no weapons) but now he's faced the undermanned situation, I don't expect him to be as jittery.  We'll see.  I see this as an important spot in his development.  How does he bounce back?  We'll see.  But I don't think it's worth lurching to "he sucks" every time he has a bad game.  Let him take his lumps.  Let's see where he's at by the end of the year, and then how he enters year 2 with more weapons.  I just sense this feels a bit different.  He has the yips right now and has to work through them.  He doesn't feel like Darnold... maybe I'll be wrong... but I think Zach is going to be fine.   He is learning the ropes of the NFL, and I see some important development even during sh*tty weeks.  I would not be shocked to see a huge jump out of him coming into year 2.   How good, we'll find out over the next 12 months.   I think it's more likely he has a big jump than continues to regress.  

[Green hat]

Good take. I would add that rookies need help from the team around them to overcome their mistakes, and the injury bug has made it impossible to do so. We need our receivers to make the difficult catches while Zach is getting his experience, and it's not happening. They made just as many mistakes as he did between Mimms penalties and Ty's drops, which compounded the problem. 

I guess it might help for him to go through these tough times and get stronger from it. But he also needs more success mixed in to keep from losing his confidence.

 

[Irish Jet]

REALITY DENIAL

Definition: 

A subconscious defense mechanism characterized by refusal to acknowledge (or rationalization of) unwanted or unpleasant facts, realities, thoughts, or feelings. Related Term: “Denialism.”

[Guilhermezmc]

We're tied to him at least for 1 more year, this team is not trading for DW and I don't see the FO picking a QB next year. All we can hope is that he can clean up his mechanics and stop being so afraid in the pocket. I would like to see him use his legs more, he can keep some defenses honest scrambling for some easy yards

[DetroitRed]

I hope an all 22 is posted.  I understand there had to be guys  open at times, but how bad was the lack of separation?  The short accuracy is inexcusable, but would seem to be fixable 

[Biggs]

Sort of a back handed complement.  Zach is now relaxed and isn't pressing.  He also can't hit the side of a barn when he's relaxed and not pressing.  If the game is slowing down for him and he's not overwhelmed I would be more concerned, not less concerned.  

[Barkus]

One positive is he didn’t completely soil his pants out there by throwing a bunch of interceptions and look totally lost. He obviously needs to clear the mental block with the short throws. 

[The Crusher]

36 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

It's hard not to look at yesterday's game in a nutshell and be dispirited.  The accuracy issues that we saw from Wilson were certainly concerning.  But I offer a different perspective, and it's not one that necessarily still believes he is the savior.   Rather, coming into this game I thought it would be an interesting one from a developmental perspective.  No WR1, WR2, RB1, RB2, TE1.  What would he do?  Any QB would be in a difficult spot with that.  

He was a jittery rookie for sure; but he didn't seem overwhelmed.  The Saints DBs were all over his players.  Mims sh*t the bed.  The other guys couldn't get open.  And there were drops everywhere.  Yet, for all of that, Zach did not press.  I wished he would have gone to a hurry up a little earlier to try to get into a rhythm, but that's on LaFleur to realize that he's got to change it up when they came out flat.  But instead, he chose to play it close... did not press.  I actually thought that was a step forward.  Every qb has games like that, and recognizing that, he soldiered through.  Early in the season, this would have been a 4 INT game.  Would also have been nice to see the defense grab an INT or big play. We can count on one hand the number of turnovers by the defense this year over the course of 13 games.  Never seen that before in 40 years watching the game.   And we've had some bad teams. 

Now next week, we are likely to see the same (no weapons) but now he's faced the undermanned situation, I don't expect him to be as jittery.  We'll see.  I see this as an important spot in his development.  How does he bounce back?  We'll see.  But I don't think it's worth lurching to "he sucks" every time he has a bad game.  Let him take his lumps.  Let's see where he's at by the end of the year, and then how he enters year 2 with more weapons.  I just sense this feels a bit different.  He has the yips right now and has to work through them.  He doesn't feel like Darnold... maybe I'll be wrong... but I think Zach is going to be fine.   He is learning the ropes of the NFL, and I see some important development even during sh*tty weeks.  I would not be shocked to see a huge jump out of him coming into year 2.   How good, we'll find out over the next 12 months.   I think it's more likely he has a big jump than continues to regress.  

Pretty sure it’s his first game without a pick though he did come close. Not the biggest accomplishment obviously but does support your he didn’t press point and that’s a good thing. Nice post. 

[Green hat]

11 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

REALITY DENIAL

Definition: 

A subconscious defense mechanism characterized by refusal to acknowledge (or rationalization of) unwanted or unpleasant facts, realities, thoughts, or feelings. Related Term: “Denialism.”

OK you are done with him but I'm not there yet. He's struggling but he is still a rookie and gets a chance to show improvement after an off season to focus on the issues.

[Bleedin Green]

19 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Pretty sure it’s his first game without a pick though he did come close. Not the biggest accomplishment obviously but does support your he didn’t press point and that’s a good thing. Nice post. 

I suppose that's something, but still a bit of a downer when the greatest highlight is many throws being uncatchable by everyone, now including DBs too.

Although not entirely sure how it's a different perspective.  The concept of someone potentially not sucking as much as they actually seem to has been a common theme for Wilson all season and the Jets for decades.

[Bleedin Green]

2 minutes ago, Green hat said:

OK you are done with him but I'm not there yet. He's struggling but he is still a rookie and gets a chance to show improvement after an off season to focus on the issues.

Yeah, as much as Wilson is driving me nuts now, I will freely admit there's no reason to not give him another shot next year.  With that said, he should also be expected to earn that, not be handed it.

[prime21]

22 minutes ago, Barkus said:

One positive is he didn’t completely soil his pants out there by throwing a bunch of interceptions and look totally lost. He obviously needs to clear the mental block with the short throws. 

Many of his throws were not even catchable by the defense.

[The Crusher]

6 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I suppose that's something, but still a bit of a downer when the greatest highlight is many throws being uncatchable by everyone, now including DBs too.

Although not entirely sure how it's a different perspective.  The concept of someone potentially not sucking as much as they actually seem to has been a common theme for Wilson also season and the Jets for decades.

“ sometimes you gotta eat an apple, even though you wish it was apple pie!” 

[ScarletKnight89]

I was looking at Josh Allen's career trajectory and he was a guy who when he came out his first year he completed only 53% of his passes threw 10 TD and 12 INT's and then made a sizable jump in year 2 followed by another sizable jump in year 3. 

That doesn't mean Zach Wilson is going to do the same thing but hopefully he makes a big leap from year 1 to year 2. All you can say about this year at this point is that he is getting experience. He's had 2 good games out of 8.5. 

[Ken Schroy]

27 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I suppose that's something, but still a bit of a downer when the greatest highlight is many throws being uncatchable by everyone, now including DBs too.

Although not entirely sure how it's a different perspective.  The concept of someone potentially not sucking as much as they actually seem to has been a common theme for Wilson all season and the Jets for decades.

Yes, it would have been so much better if his balls are more catchable for DB's. LOL

[Bleedin Green]

10 minutes ago, Ken Schroy said:

Yes, it would have been so much better if his balls are more catchable for DB's. LOL

Yeah, he's not throwing incompletions, but brilliant non-interceptions.

Just revolutionizing the game out there.

[Green Ghost]

This is the point of the year when most of us were expecting to see progress from Wilson, and the CS. 
Well, here we are, and the best I can come up with is, “they can’t possibly be this bad, can they?”

This is a mess.

[Irish Jet]

50 minutes ago, Green hat said:

OK you are done with him but I'm not there yet. He's struggling but he is still a rookie and gets a chance to show improvement after an off season to focus on the issues.

It's not so much that I'm done with him as I am these excuses.

Not having WR1, WR2, RB1, RB2 and TE1 may actually be a valid excuse had he not played like sh*t with said WR1, WR2, RB1, RB and, TE1.

[jetlaw]

Yesterday Wilson had no chance of being successful, but there were plenty of other games he did and still sucked. He was the number 2 pick drafted on a horrible team so he is going to get another shot next year but the changes of a big jump are slim in my opinion.


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[HighPitch]

Im starting to believe in curses because of all this

[chirorob]

56 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I was looking at Josh Allen's career trajectory and he was a guy who when he came out his first year he completed only 53% of his passes threw 10 TD and 12 INT's and then made a sizable jump in year 2 followed by another sizable jump in year 3. 

That doesn't mean Zach Wilson is going to do the same thing but hopefully he makes a big leap from year 1 to year 2. All you can say about this year at this point is that he is getting experience. He's had 2 good games out of 8.5. 

And that's the hope.

There is also Sam Darnold, who came out and sucked accuracy wise, and did not really improve.

[56mehl56]

24 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Im starting to believe in curses because of all this

That's funny because I'm resorting to yelling all kinds of curses because of this. 

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

It's hard not to look at yesterday's game in a nutshell and be dispirited.  The accuracy issues that we saw from Wilson were certainly concerning.  But I offer a different perspective, and it's not one that necessarily still believes he is the savior.   Rather, coming into this game I thought it would be an interesting one from a developmental perspective.  No WR1, WR2, RB1, RB2, TE1.  What would he do?  Any QB would be in a difficult spot with that.  

He was a jittery rookie for sure; but he didn't seem overwhelmed.  The Saints DBs were all over his players.  Mims sh*t the bed.  The other guys couldn't get open.  And there were drops everywhere.  Yet, for all of that, Zach did not press.  I wished he would have gone to a hurry up a little earlier to try to get into a rhythm, but that's on LaFleur to realize that he's got to change it up when they came out flat.  But instead, he chose to play it close... did not press.  I actually thought that was a step forward.  Every qb has games like that, and recognizing that, he soldiered through.  Early in the season, this would have been a 4 INT game.  Would also have been nice to see the defense grab an INT or big play. We can count on one hand the number of turnovers by the defense this year over the course of 13 games.  Never seen that before in 40 years watching the game.   And we've had some bad teams. 

Now next week, we are likely to see the same (no weapons) but now he's faced the undermanned situation, I don't expect him to be as jittery.  We'll see.  I see this as an important spot in his development.  How does he bounce back?  We'll see.  But I don't think it's worth lurching to "he sucks" every time he has a bad game.  Let him take his lumps.  Let's see where he's at by the end of the year, and then how he enters year 2 with more weapons.  I just sense this feels a bit different.  He has the yips right now and has to work through them.  He doesn't feel like Darnold... maybe I'll be wrong... but I think Zach is going to be fine.   He is learning the ropes of the NFL, and I see some important development even during sh*tty weeks.  I would not be shocked to see a huge jump out of him coming into year 2.   How good, we'll find out over the next 12 months.   I think it's more likely he has a big jump than continues to regress.  

Boy, we are really scraping the barrel  to find good things to say about yesterday. 

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I was looking at Josh Allen's career trajectory and he was a guy who when he came out his first year he completed only 53% of his passes threw 10 TD and 12 INT's and then made a sizable jump in year 2 followed by another sizable jump in year 3. 

That doesn't mean Zach Wilson is going to do the same thing but hopefully he makes a big leap from year 1 to year 2. All you can say about this year at this point is that he is getting experience. He's had 2 good games out of 8.5. 

Generally guys don’t become more accurate.  You can increase arm strength in the NFL but accuracy issues are typically tough to fix.  Allen is an anomaly, it’s rare to make that kind of leap.   He also posses elite traits.  His arm strength and athleticism are both elite.   He is also 6’5” 240 pounds.   He plays the QB position very different than Zach.  

[doitny]

1 hour ago, Green hat said:

OK you are done with him but I'm not there yet. He's struggling but he is still a rookie and gets a chance to show improvement after an off season to focus on the issues.

dont mind Irish, hes been done with the whole team since Denver.

[Jetsfan80]

48 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Yeah, he's not throwing incompletions, but brilliant non-interceptions.

Just revolutionizing the game out there.

He’s throwing passes so poorly that NEITHER team can catch them.

Jets fans:  “This is good”

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, doitny said:

dont mind Irish, hes been done with the whole team since Denver.

And the team has really done a lot to make him regret that!

[doitny]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Generally guys don’t become more accurate.  You can increase arm strength in the NFL but accuracy issues are typically tough to fix.  Allen is an anomaly, it’s rare to make that kind of leap.   He also posses elite traits.  His arm strength and athleticism are both elite.   He is also 6’5” 240 pounds.   He plays the QB position very different than Zach.  

i think the accuracy is tied to the arm strength. right now he has 2 speeds, fastball and slowball. the needs to find a 3 speed. if you look at the bouncers and low balls its because he cant find that medium speed. even some of his passes get to the receiver too fast. 

i think his early INT trouble has made him think he has to gun every pass. 

there is something that killed me yesterday. the U-Turns he makes while running away from the sack. it didnt work and he lost more yards. i hop he cleans that up. happened last week too. its wasnt a sack but he finally runs out of bounces and got hurt.

[DetroitRed]

13 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Generally guys don’t become more accurate.  You can increase arm strength in the NFL but accuracy issues are typically tough to fix.  Allen is an anomaly, it’s rare to make that kind of leap.   He also posses elite traits.  His arm strength and athleticism are both elite.   He is also 6’5” 240 pounds.   He plays the QB position very different than Zach.  

I think he is just saying it can be done.  The last game of Eli’s rookie year was worse than anything Zach has ever done in terms of accuracy 

[ScarletKnight89]

8 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Generally guys don’t become more accurate.  You can increase arm strength in the NFL but accuracy issues are typically tough to fix.  Allen is an anomaly, it’s rare to make that kind of leap.   He also posses elite traits.  His arm strength and athleticism are both elite.   He is also 6’5” 240 pounds.   He plays the QB position very different than Zach.  

I agree. But Allen had accuracy issues in college where as Zach Wilson did not have those concerns coming out. I'm looking primarily at the throwing, and not the rest of their games because they are not comparable besides the fact that they both have big arms. I'm still assuming that the issue right now for Wilson is in his head, and the game is still going too fast for him. But I guess we'll see. I gotta believe he can execute a wide receiver screen pass at a 90% clip and that there is just an issue of doing it in games for whatever reason which I see as more mental. That throw to Berrios just looked like an example of a rookie QB who is overthinking and playing way too fast. Same with the throw to Griffin. 

Lawrence is another guy not completing a high percentage of his passes which was not an issue in college, granted both players were playing at an easier level.

 

[kevinc855]

I repsect you guys for weekly for trying to make something positive from weekly disasters. It's a tough job.

But here it is. Zach is not good. Sure, hes a rookie, but that excuse is more for reading defenses and decision making. 

My concern is the accuracy and zero touch?? Can he not clean that up before the year is out. The rookie card won't work on that. 

I'm deeply concerned considering we basically tied the entire longest rebuild of all time to him as QB.

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, doitny said:

i think the accuracy is tied to the arm strength. right now he has 2 speeds, fastball and slowball. the needs to find a 3 speed. if you look at the bouncers and low balls its because he cant find that medium speed. even some of his passes get to the receiver too fast. 

i think his early INT trouble has made him think he has to gun every pass. 

there is something that killed me yesterday. the U-Turns he makes while running away from the sack. it didnt work and he lost more yards. i hop he cleans that up. happened last week too. its wasnt a sack but he finally runs out of bounces and got hurt.

His inability to naturally throw the ball is concerning.  Knowing what type of throw to make is an innate feel  thing.  When to use touch, when to rip it, those are things you can’t “think” about, you just do it.   This was supposed to be a given with Zach.  Remember all the glowing arm talent reviews?   It’s a major problem, and when you combine the lack of accuracy, you have a QB that looks like he should have been a 6th round developmental prospect instead of the 2nd overall pick.  
 

As far as his escape-ability, that’s something I’ve been critical of since day one.   He simply has no feel for where the defenders are and how to avoid them.  He rarely if ever steps up into the pocket and because his momentum is usually going backwards,  makes it difficult for him to spin away from the pass rush.  

[Matt39]

He throws the ball weird. A lot of sidearm stuff… and he aims all of his short throws. His mechanics won’t let him step up into his passes or throw the ball overhand. 

[Ken Schroy]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

Yeah, he's not throwing incompletions, but brilliant non-interceptions.

Just revolutionizing the game out there.

Nice try. You sound foolish. YOU are on the cutting edge of silliness. But please continue. lol

[Ken Schroy]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He’s throwing passes so poorly that NEITHER team can catch them.

Jets fans:  “This is good”

He needs to throw a better ball so even if it's tipped, like yesterday, the DB's can catch it more easily

Jets fans: "Please make it happen, the DB's would appreciate it"