David Harris Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Really goes to show how difficult it is to succeed in the NFL. Last year we ripped management for not bringing in Rhule. Now he's getting crap out in Carolina. IIRC, we also had a chance to draft Claypool but traded down and took Mims. It seemed like a horrible decision but this year he's in Tomlin's doghouse. It's getting to the point where I think we might want to just trade down multiple times and just add picks in future years. Quantity over quality since it's so difficult to get this stuff right. Just get as many lottery tickets as possible. Rhule is acting desperate. And I think it all comes down to Quarterbacking. Without one the coach is going to canned no matter what. Pete Carroll admitted as much discussing Wilson earlier this year. That he wouldn’t have had such a long career in one spot without a good QB. Rhule knows this and has been frantically trying to get a QB to terrible results and now they want his head on a stake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrebetfan80 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 40 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said: Eh, I don't know about that. Carolina doesn't actually look significantly worse this year than last. Last year they were just fresh and new and Bridgewater was the scapegoat. Team looks more inept this year offensively. Brady was the darling of the league last year, dude got multiple HC interviews based on that season. All of a sudden he needs to be fired mid year, kind of a big swing there if you ask me. Bottom line, the margin for error in the league is razor thin, wouldnt surprise me if they fired rhule brought in someone else, and the panthers are all of a sudden really good again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, David Harris said: Rhule is acting desperate. And I think it all comes down to Quarterbacking. Agreed. The problem with Rhule is that he seems like an egomaniac that has no patience to develop a QB and goes for the quick fixes (Bridgewater/Darnold/Cam). Panthers were picking at 8 last year and could have taken Fields or Jones, but he opted for the immediate help in Horn at CB. Horn helped there chances of winning more games this year, but Fields/Jones would have given them QBs they could develop as the long term answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Barton said: When you dont have a QB, you will look not so good. Look at the patriots last year. How'd they look? "We have a crappy QB, but it's ok, we are built around our pro bowl running back." Running back instantly hurt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sciond Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 They got the Rule and Rhules mixed up... they should have hired Ja Rule instead... seriously they hate this dude here in CLT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 4 hours ago, chirorob said: Couple things, You started out 3-0, who exactly did you beat then? Maybe you should work on doing your job better. You have Sam Darnold, the ghost of Cam Newton, and who at running back? Part of the point is that Rhule decided to trade for Darnold (instead of drafting a QB) and bring the "ghost" of Cam into town. At least a Rookie QB gives you an excuse year 1. And Rhule was the genius who decided to spend a fortune on a RB when we all know now that RBs don't do well after their rookie contracts. Rhule wasn't given this roster, he created this roster. We are now in year 2 and Rhule is 10-19 with zero sign of hope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said: Team looks more inept this year offensively. Brady was the darling of the league last year, dude got multiple HC interviews based on that season. All of a sudden he needs to be fired mid year, kind of a big swing there if you ask me. Bottom line, the margin for error in the league is razor thin, wouldnt surprise me if they fired rhule brought in someone else, and the panthers are all of a sudden really good again. Well yeah, Sam Darnold and Cam Newton have been the QBs this year. Of course they look more inept than when they had B'water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said: Team looks more inept this year offensively. Brady was the darling of the league last year, dude got multiple HC interviews based on that season. All of a sudden he needs to be fired mid year, kind of a big swing there if you ask me. Bottom line, the margin for error in the league is razor thin, wouldnt surprise me if they fired rhule brought in someone else, and the panthers are all of a sudden really good again. Let’s face it the Joe Brady hype was out of hand though and his expectations in the NFL a bit unrealistic. Let’s look at the offense he coached at LSU. Joe Burrow Ja’Marr Chase Justin Jefferson Terrance Marshall Clyde Edwards-Helair Lloyd Cushenberry Saahdiq Charles Thaddeus Moss I’m probably missing some others, but it’s not like he took a roster full of a average talent and coached them up That team was as loaded as we have seen in recent memory 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungaman Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 5 hours ago, slimjasi said: Possibly. Although one basic issue this roster has is that it is littered with rookies. I really think, regardless of what we do in the draft, that we need a major spending spree in free agency. We need quality veterans who know how to prepare and play in the NFL. This team consistently looks out of position and makes stupid mistakes at an alarming rate. No matter what he do in the draft, we need a big FA period. If I am not mistaken, some of those dead money contracts are coming off the cap this offseason, so there will be enough money to get a key vet or two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 5 hours ago, slimjasi said: Possibly. Although one basic issue this roster has is that it is littered with rookies. I really think, regardless of what we do in the draft, that we need a major spending spree in free agency. We need quality veterans who know how to prepare and play in the NFL. This team consistently looks out of position and makes stupid mistakes at an alarming rate. No matter what he do in the draft, we need a big FA period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bungaman said: If I am not mistaken, some of those dead money contracts are coming off the cap this offseason, so there will be enough money to get a key vet or two. Oh yeah, there will be plenty of money. The issue will be convincing quality vets to come to this train wreck without massively overpaying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Matt Rhule loaded a gun with Darnold bullets. Aimed it at his own head. And pulled the trigger. Picking up Darnold's 5th year option was the dumbest front office move with the information and options available at the time I can remember in a long time. Teddy B is getting paid <$5 million in Denver on a one year deal. Bet Rhule wishes he hedged his bets and kept Teddy just in case his Darnold rehabilitation project was a no go. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Barton said: When you dont have a QB, you will look not so good. Look at the patriots last year. How'd they look? He was apparently pretty influential in the switch from Teddy to Darnold which for most of us at the time was a hilarious downgrade. The players would be well aware of that too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungaman Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 minute ago, slimjasi said: Oh yeah, there will be plenty of money. The issue will be convincing quality vets to come to this train wreck without massively overpaying. True. But even the best teams end up overpaying for top tier free agents. JD has done "OK" for a few of them, Fant and Moses coming to mind. But at least he hasn't been locking the team into long term guaranteed money like the previous office holder. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Rhule is terrible. His wanna-be preacher act might charm an owner or younger college players but the NFL is for pros and they want coaching and competence both of which he lacks. They could have had Fields or Jones without using any draft equity yet they chose to use fairly significant draft capital to get a 4th year QB that wasn't even rated in the Top 32 for his first three years. Taking a flyer on someone like Darnold as a waiver guy or some conditional low rounder is OK but trading high picks is idiotic. And executing the option was even beyond idiotic. There is no justification for that on any level. Then to bring back Newton who proves over and over and over that he sucks is just the icing on the crap pie. Carolina needs to dump him. If I were an owner I would give coaches a 3 year guaranteed contract with a performance based option for 3 more years at a very high salary. If the coach is not willing to bet on himself he is likely not the guy, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fleming Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 4 hours ago, sciond said: They got the Rule and Rhules mixed up... they should have hired Ja Rule instead... seriously they hate this dude here in CLT. There was one poster here who actually addressed him as “Ja Rhule” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sciond Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Ian Fleming said: There was one poster here who actually addressed him as “Ja Rhule” damn I missed that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted December 13, 2021 Author Share Posted December 13, 2021 The Jets fired a 6-10 Pete Carroll after one year. Rookie HC without a great team who was learning and trying to figure things out. The Jets wanted a "veteran, proven" guy... so they turned to Rich Kotite. Once again, a lack of patience and the short-sighted goal of a quick fix bit the Jets in the ass. Carroll learned more, got more experience (the smarts and talent were always there, the experience wasn't), and has now gone on to a 150-102-1 NFL coaching record (144 - 92 if you exclude his Jets season ). He's won 10+ games in 8 out of the last 10 seasons. Hiring rookie coaches, drafting rookie players and expecting them to be instantaneously great is simply an unfair expectation. I have no idea if Saleh will turn out to be great or horrible. Probably ends up somewhere in-between. But walking up to a contractor who is 2 weeks into a 6-week kitchen remodel job and saying, "Man, this place looks like sh!t" is a bit unfair. If Saleh is bad he'll be fired... but let's wait until we're sure he's bad. I'm not there yet. The first time I'd probably consider canning him is after the 2022 season. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said: The Jets fired a 6-10 Pete Carroll after one year. Rookie HC without a great team who was learning and trying to figure things out. The Jets wanted a "veteran, proven" guy... so they turned to Rich Kotite. Once again, a lack of patience and the short-sighted goal of a quick fix bit the Jets in the ass. Carroll learned more, got more experience (the smarts and talent were always there, the experience wasn't), and has now gone on to a 150-102-1 NFL coaching record (144 - 92 if you exclude his Jets season ). He's won 10+ games in 8 out of the last 10 seasons. Hiring rookie coaches, drafting rookie players and expecting them to be instantaneously great is simply an unfair expectation. I have no idea if Saleh will turn out to be great or horrible. Probably ends up somewhere in-between. But walking up to a contractor who is 2 weeks into a 6-week kitchen remodel job and saying, "Man, this place looks like sh!t" is a bit unfair. If Saleh is bad he'll be fired... but let's wait until we're sure he's bad. I'm not there yet. The first time I'd probably consider canning him is after the 2022 season. You lost me by invoking “fairness.” We aren’t dividing Halloween candy between siblings. **** “fairness” and its equally-ugly cousin “deserve.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted December 13, 2021 Author Share Posted December 13, 2021 6 hours ago, Barton said: When you dont have a QB, you will look not so good. Look at the patriots last year. How'd they look? 2 hours ago, Irish Jet said: He was apparently pretty influential in the switch from Teddy to Darnold which for most of us at the time was a hilarious downgrade. The players would be well aware of that too. Yup, the players know what's up. And, if we apply that logic to the Jets we can only say that Saleh was onboard with drafting Zach. That's his guy. And (this will trigger the JD fanbois), Saleh AND Zach are JD's handpicked future for the Jets. There's simply no way with a straight face someone can strongly advocate that JD is a good GM if he has misfired on the TWO most critical pieces that impact a team's wins and losses. If Saleh is good but Zach busts then the Jets will find a way to move forward. If Saleh is a train wreck but Zach makes a leap into a competent starter, then the Jets will pivot to a new coach and be okay. If both are bad, if the Jets are in similar situation to the two year reign of Gase/Darnold, then everybody below Woody is gone by 2023 IMO. With that said, I simply can't fathom that all of JD, Saleh and Wilson are bad. There has to be at least one who has a good NFL future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said: Yup, the players know what's up. And, if we apply that logic to the Jets we can only say that Saleh was onboard with drafting Zach. That's his guy. And (this will trigger the JD fanbois), Saleh AND Zach are JD's handpicked future for the Jets. There's simply no way with a straight face someone can strongly advocate that JD is a good GM if he has misfired on the TWO most critical pieces that impact a team's wins and losses. If Saleh is good but Zach busts then the Jets will find a way to move forward. If Saleh is a train wreck but Zach makes a leap into a competent starter, then the Jets will pivot to a new coach and be okay. If both are bad, if the Jets are in similar situation to the two year reign of Gase/Darnold, then everybody below Woody is gone by 2023 IMO. With that said, I simply can't fathom that all of JD, Saleh and Wilson are bad. There has to be at least one who has a good NFL future. Can Saleh be considered good if Zach busts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted December 13, 2021 Author Share Posted December 13, 2021 25 minutes ago, jgb said: You lost me by invoking “fairness.” We aren’t dividing Halloween candy between siblings. **** “fairness” and its equally-ugly cousin “deserve.” I'm saying it's unfair to us... not always them. Pete Carroll ended up doing well for himself and has a SB ring. The Jets being shortsighted turned out to hurt them and the fans. If Saleh's a good coach he'll be fine, whether here or somewhere else. The NFL is efficient like that. Demario Davis told me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 minute ago, jetstream23 said: I'm saying it's unfair to us... not always them. Pete Carroll ended up doing well for himself and has a SB ring. The Jets being shortsighted turned out to hurt them and the fans. If Saleh's a good coach he'll be fine, whether here or somewhere else. The NFL is efficient like that. Demario Davis told me. This is the team we have earned. Look how many people are arguing to the point of asphyxiation that the entire team and organization are rotten to the core rather than admit Wilson stinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetluv58 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 1 hour ago, jetstream23 said: The Jets fired a 6-10 Pete Carroll after one year. Rookie HC without a great team who was learning and trying to figure things out. The Jets wanted a "veteran, proven" guy... so they turned to Rich Kotite. Once again, a lack of patience and the short-sighted goal of a quick fix bit the Jets in the ass. Carroll learned more, got more experience (the smarts and talent were always there, the experience wasn't), and has now gone on to a 150-102-1 NFL coaching record (144 - 92 if you exclude his Jets season ). He's won 10+ games in 8 out of the last 10 seasons. Hiring rookie coaches, drafting rookie players and expecting them to be instantaneously great is simply an unfair expectation. I have no idea if Saleh will turn out to be great or horrible. Probably ends up somewhere in-between. But walking up to a contractor who is 2 weeks into a 6-week kitchen remodel job and saying, "Man, this place looks like sh!t" is a bit unfair. If Saleh is bad he'll be fired... but let's wait until we're sure he's bad. I'm not there yet. The first time I'd probably consider canning him is after the 2022 season. Nice analogy and I agree with you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted December 14, 2021 Author Share Posted December 14, 2021 29 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: Can Saleh be considered good if Zach busts? Great question. I don't know. Honestly, it's hard to assess. But IF the rest of the team is progressing from year 1 into year 2, but Zach isn't then perhaps we can de-couple them. But often times the HC goes down with the ship even if it's being lead by a bust rookie QB. Steve Wilks got one season as head coach in AZ with Josh Rosen. Both were one and done. Enter Kingsbury and Kyler Murray. Zac Taylor was 2-14 with Andy Dalton as a rookie HC. He was 4-11-1 with Joe Burrow in his second season (Burrow's first). He's now 7-6 in Burrow's sophomore year and his third season. Are both good, both bad or one and one? How does a guy like Matt Nagy in Chicago start his coaching career with a 28-20 W/L record (Trubisky at QB) over his first three seasons but now he's 4-9 with Fields? I don't think he's a great HC but he's been objectively average/good over a few years in a Division ruled by the Packers and Vikings (with Detroit as a punching bag). Is he a bad coach or does he have a bad rookie QB..... or does it just take some time? Things are really, really ugly with the Jets right now. Makes it a bit tough to evaluate anybody. But if the team looks prepared, plays hard, plays smart but is coming up short in the W/L column I could say the coaching seems okay. I can't say that right now though. The team still commits some bad penalties (ranked 10th in the NFL in most penalties). They've been bad at Offsides and Roughing the passer in particular but are low in pass interference and some others. I haven't seen data on Coach's Challenges but subjectively I haven't seen them executed well by Saleh so far. There's no talk of mutiny like there has been rumored in Jacksonville (or now with Matt Rhule), and many players here seem to be responding to Saleh, but is anyone "running through a wall for him" like they did with Rex? I don't know. Some young guys look really good. Both Michael Carters, Elijah Moore, Echols hasn't been bad, AVT is a stud, Quincy Williams has come out of nowhere a bit (his opportunity due to injuries for Nasirildeen, Sherwood, Cashman, etc.). If Saleh develops all these guys but Zach busts is that on Saleh? Maybe? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 1 hour ago, jetstream23 said: I'm saying it's unfair to us... not always them. Pete Carroll ended up doing well for himself and has a SB ring. The Jets being shortsighted turned out to hurt them and the fans. If Saleh's a good coach he'll be fine, whether here or somewhere else. The NFL is efficient like that. Demario Davis told me. This is the organization we've earned. Look how many people have already given up on a rookie QB after he's played 8 games... On the youngest and least talented roster in the NFL, with a new HC, new OC and new systems on both O and D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 40 minutes ago, jetstream23 said: Great question. I don't know. Honestly, it's hard to assess. But IF the rest of the team is progressing from year 1 into year 2, but Zach isn't then perhaps we can de-couple them. But often times the HC goes down with the ship even if it's being lead by a bust rookie QB. Steve Wilks got one season as head coach in AZ with Josh Rosen. Both were one and done. Enter Kingsbury and Kyler Murray. Zac Taylor was 2-14 with Andy Dalton as a rookie HC. He was 4-11-1 with Joe Burrow in his second season (Burrow's first). He's now 7-6 in Burrow's sophomore year and his third season. Are both good, both bad or one and one? How does a guy like Matt Nagy in Chicago start his coaching career with a 28-20 W/L record (Trubisky at QB) over his first three seasons but now he's 4-9 with Fields? I don't think he's a great HC but he's been objectively average/good over a few years in a Division ruled by the Packers and Vikings (with Detroit as a punching bag). Is he a bad coach or does he have a bad rookie QB..... or does it just take some time? Things are really, really ugly with the Jets right now. Makes it a bit tough to evaluate anybody. But if the team looks prepared, plays hard, plays smart but is coming up short in the W/L column I could say the coaching seems okay. I can't say that right now though. The team still commits some bad penalties (ranked 10th in the NFL in most penalties). They've been bad at Offsides and Roughing the passer in particular but are low in pass interference and some others. I haven't seen data on Coach's Challenges but subjectively I haven't seen them executed well by Saleh so far. There's no talk of mutiny like there has been rumored in Jacksonville (or now with Matt Rhule), and many players here seem to be responding to Saleh, but is anyone "running through a wall for him" like they did with Rex? I don't know. Some young guys look really good. Both Michael Carters, Elijah Moore, Echols hasn't been bad, AVT is a stud, Quincy Williams has come out of nowhere a bit (his opportunity due to injuries for Nasirildeen, Sherwood, Cashman, etc.). If Saleh develops all these guys but Zach busts is that on Saleh? Maybe? I agree, it’s difficult to parse the two of them. The problem is that they both affect each other so much in that regard. If Wilson’s good, then Saleh will be good, if Wilson’s bad then I think it will be how Saleh handles that, that will determine his fate. If it’s obvious that Zach doesn’t have it will Saleh move on or ride it out too long? Will be interesting to watch next season as the expectations are going to be vastly different than this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Willie White Shoes Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 10 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said: It's amazing how quickly things turn. Last year many of us (myself included) would have loved to have had Rhule and Brady. Looks unlikely either will survive. You mean things change year over year in the NFL? What a concept! Maybe some coaches and players can better too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Willie White Shoes Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 10 hours ago, Irish Jet said: Claypool is a diva but he'll be in the league and still playing well in 5 years. Has over 1500 yards in his first two seasons. Odds are against our guy ever reaching that mark. Typical SOJ fan. Find a guy in the draft the Jets passed on who is succeeding and repeat year after year how the GM blew it by not drafting him. Great insight. By the way, Claypool has regressed. He's not looking like the next Jerry Rice. Moore was having a better season, but that doesn't fit the narrative. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Willie White Shoes Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 5 hours ago, johnnysd said: Rhule is terrible. His wanna-be preacher act might charm an owner or younger college players but the NFL is for pros and they want coaching and competence both of which he lacks. They could have had Fields or Jones without using any draft equity yet they chose to use fairly significant draft capital to get a 4th year QB that wasn't even rated in the Top 32 for his first three years. Taking a flyer on someone like Darnold as a waiver guy or some conditional low rounder is OK but trading high picks is idiotic. And executing the option was even beyond idiotic. There is no justification for that on any level. Then to bring back Newton who proves over and over and over that he sucks is just the icing on the crap pie. Carolina needs to dump him. If I were an owner I would give coaches a 3 year guaranteed contract with a performance based option for 3 more years at a very high salary. If the coach is not willing to bet on himself he is likely not the guy, So, drafting QBs with early picks is a good thing now? Or just for other teams besides the Jets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 @jgb and I predicted Darnold would get Brady and Rhule fired. One down, one to go. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 The Panthers are paying Darnold $18.9M next year. Think about that one for a moment. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSNY Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 8 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said: Claypool went 8/90 from that "doghouse" Thursday. Clay pool also cost them 15 yards in the first half with that stoooopid penalty that pushed them back negating a possible scoring opportunity and then outdid himself on the idiocy scale by costing his team valuable time by doing his look at me first down celebration when going for the tying TD. Don’t know how Tomlin didn’t cut him right then and there. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 Just now, CSNY said: Don’t know how Tomlin didn’t cut him right then and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: The Panthers are paying Darnold $18.9M next year. Think about that one for a moment. Right? Zach Wilson may be god awful but at least after watching Darnold suck for three years the NFL level we didn't double down and pay him more. Wilson at least had a chance to be good. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.