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Zach Wilson all preseason throws.


doitny
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so this is from the preseason. i know there Vanilla defenses but he doesnt bounce anything except one pass. no throws behind anyone. doesnt throw any fireballs. and a screen pass should be vanilla right? wide open guy in the flat. i think his problem is mental. he cant read the defenses right now. there fooling him. i think this can be fix with time and experience. i dont think you can read defenses from the sidelines.

 

 

 

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After watching that there were a couple of bad passes but most of them were good. I'm going to go out on a limb here (against my better judgement) and give Zach one more chance to hang on by a thread. Could he have done damage to his arm ? If he did wouldn't the team know? Would he hide that from the team ? Because that's a different QB and some of those passes were even under pressure so does not matter he was playing against tomato cans. This kid always threw spirals and tight ones at that now he's throwing wobblers.

I know you can still play with certain types of rotator cuff injuries then address them in the offseason could the Jets be aware of a possible injury but are still letting him play just to get the exp. reading defenses ? Could this be a problem with his already repaired Rotator cuff and we are running into another Pennington situation ?

This is me being a fan and maybe also an Idiot but I'm trying hard to grasp on to something with the hope this kid is having an issue we just don't know about. We have seen things like this before when a team does not divulge an injury and then there's the mysterious off season surgery.

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7 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

My guess is he never had to read defenses in College. Like at all. Now that he is forced to now and rather quickly whatever mechanics and footwork he showed up with is being short circuited. Not sure if he could ever learn to do both at the same time. I can hope he could. 

i agree. 

even if you look at him in garbage time like yesterday. his throws were on the money when the defense lets up a bit. i think these different looks are confusing him. i hope he can work on it. 

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15 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

After watching that there were a couple of bad passes but most of them were good. I'm going to go out on a limb here (against my better judgement) and give Zach one more chance to hang on by a thread. Could he have done damage to his arm ? If he did wouldn't the team know? Would he hide that from the team ? Because that's a different QB and some of those passes were even under pressure so does not matter he was playing against tomato cans. This kid always threw spirals and tight ones at that now he's throwing wobblers.

I know you can still play with certain types of rotator cuff injuries then address them in the offseason could the Jets be aware of a possible injury but are still letting him play just to get the exp. reading defenses ? Could this be a problem with his already repaired Rotator cuff and we are running into another Pennington situation ?

This is me being a fan and maybe also an Idiot but I'm trying hard to grasp on to something with the hope this kid is having an issue we just don't know about. We have seen things like this before when a team does not divulge an injury and then there's the mysterious off season surgery.

i forgot about the injury. 

i get what your saying. me too. how can you look so good in preseason and than miss like this for real. 

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7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

It has nothing to do with his arm 

He’s a young QB who lacks confidence and is probably feeling the pressure inside his head. It’s mostly mental, IMO. He has to learn how to handle the immense pressure and responsibility of the position. 

On those bounce throws it seemed as if he’s fighting himself between really winging it and tossing it and what happens is this awkward compromised result where he’s way overthinking the throw and he’s not throwing naturally.  I do think that will resolve itself over time.  At least he’s not forcing all those throws downfield and having multiple ints that just ruin careers.  Just not doing that is a plus.

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13 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

After watching that there were a couple of bad passes but most of them were good. I'm going to go out on a limb here (against my better judgement) and give Zach one more chance to hang on by a thread. Could he have done damage to his arm ? If he did wouldn't the team know? Would he hide that from the team ? Because that's a different QB and some of those passes were even under pressure so does not matter he was playing against tomato cans. This kid always threw spirals and tight ones at that now he's throwing wobblers.

I know you can still play with certain types of rotator cuff injuries then address them in the offseason could the Jets be aware of a possible injury but are still letting him play just to get the exp. reading defenses ? Could this be a problem with his already repaired Rotator cuff and we are running into another Pennington situation ?

This is me being a fan and maybe also an Idiot but I'm trying hard to grasp on to something with the hope this kid is having an issue we just don't know about. We have seen things like this before when a team does not divulge an injury and then there's the mysterious off season surgery.

It's definitely mental.  Getting the crap absolutely blasted out of him early in the year short circuited his confidence.  He was being taught in game that he cannot trust his OL and so in his head he was/is thinking that the ball has to get out nownownow but his eyes are showing him something else so he kind of freezes then the ball gets out late and inaccurate.  It's in his head.  It's exactly what happened to Darnold for three years.

Now... the OL is better, but now we have a new problem.  We're missing every single one of our playmakers.  Now we're asking the rookie QB to carry the game, because we sure as heck aren't going to be running the ball with this group.  No more easy first downs handing the ball off to Moore on a sweep, or a quick screen to Moore for a first down.

He's played poorly, but it's certainly not 100% on him up to this point.  Very few QB's entering the league are going to succeed given the situation he was given this season.  The rest of the season I'm fairly certain is going to be pretty much more of the same, and it's not because I don't believe in Zach.

If next year, we have Moore, Davis, FA/Drafted WR, and 2x FA/Drafted TE, and Carter on the field.  Even with this exact OL we have on the field now, I truly believe he will look like a completely different QB after an offseason to fully heal his knee, and get his head back on straight.

Or he could bust.  At least the QB class may be better in 2023.

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4 minutes ago, doitny said:

i agree. 

even if you look at him in garbage time like yesterday. his throws were on the money when the defense lets up a bit. i think these different looks are confusing him. i hope he can work on it. 

It might be when the defense lets up some, but it also could be he freezes up from mental pressure when the game is still on the line.  Some guys get better with that pressure, some fold.  He seems to be playing scared when the game is still in question.  Frees up when it is lost.  Don't know.  Hope I am wrong.  Can't win with that problem.

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6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

On those bounce throws it seemed as if he’s fighting himself between really winging it and tossing it and what happens is this awkward compromised result where he’s way overthinking the throw and he’s not throwing naturally.  I do think that will resolve itself over time.  At least he’s not forcing all those throws downfield and having multiple ints that just ruin careers.  Just not doing that is a plus.

He is aiming, rather than throwing.  They say that about pitchers in baseball when things are going bad.  You just do nothing that is natural.  You aim it to go somewhere and it contributes to poor throws.  99% of Zachs problems lie between his ears... thats not a good sign.

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Just now, GandWFan said:

It might be when the defense lets up some, but it also could be he freezes up from mental pressure when the game is still on the line.  Some guys get better with that pressure, some fold.  He seems to be playing scared when the game is still in question.  Frees up when it is lost.  Don't know.  Hope I am wrong.  Can't win with that problem.

I think that when defenses let up a bit guys are actually open and there’s not the contested catches that you see during most of the games.  That’s why the plays probably look so much crisper in practice.  Then the real games come and you have these scrubs being blanketed most of the time.  

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4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Honestly do we know this for sure ? Probably not

For sure? Of course not. But I know of no evidence that there is anything wrong with his arm. 
 

I will say that I noticed how slow he looked on his big run and I definitely think his knee brace is bothering him. 
 

but him being a young player makes it far more likely that his issues are between the ears, IMO

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2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

For sure? Of course not. But I know of no evidence that there is anything wrong with his arm. 
 

I will say that I noticed how slow he looked on his big run and I definitely think his knee brace is bothering him. 
 

but him being a young player makes it far more likely that his issues are between the ears, IMO

Not concerned with his scrambling and he slid several times before taking a hit which is what you want, not like Sanchez who needed the Yankees to teach him to slide.  

As is customary with the jets offense, simple things are more difficult than they ever have to be.  More than any one thing, the reality of no moore, carter or davis out there has left wilson with no playmakers and the feeling that he has to do most of it himself which is exactly what the coaching staff was preaching they did not want to happen.  But wilson has improved, he’s not forcing nearly as many throws, the ints have reduced. That is real, tangible progress, particularly as his weapons have been sidelined.  With little help from johnson and cole, this offense is destined to suck regardless of who the qb is right now.  As much as any other conclusion, there’s the reality that the jets may well need to draft a wr in the first round so that whoever is playing qb actually has another option besides moore.

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23 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

My guess is he never had to read defenses in College. Like at all. Now that he is forced to now and rather quickly whatever mechanics and footwork he showed up with is being short circuited. Not sure if he could ever learn to do both at the same time. I can hope he could. 

This would be the case if he was constantly under pressure and he's not. Yesterday he rolled out had a back 5 yards in front of him and threw the ball 2.5 yards. He was never in any danger it was obvious who he was throwing the ball too yet he threw it directly into the ground on a pass a Pee Wee QB could make. Something looks wrong to me and I'm not buying the mental crap. A lot of those preseason throws were under pressure as well and he made them just fine . This is 9 games in and the protection is noticeably better . If 5 yard passes thrown into the dirt are mental issues then he's not going to be an NFL QB because NFL QB's always take hits and I've seen some young QB's take way more hits than Zach has taken this year. 

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7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

For sure? Of course not. But I know of no evidence that there is anything wrong with his arm. 
 

I will say that I noticed how slow he looked on his big run and I definitely think his knee brace is bothering him. 
 

but him being a young player makes it far more likely that his issues are between the ears, IMO

I see plenty that might be an arm issue or even something that's causing him not to be able to grip the football properly. he throwing wobbly passes, and he's throwing short passes into the ground . He's never done that

I'm not sure what other proof is needed. If this is all mental like you're saying then I think that's a much worse situation then having something screwed up in his arm that needs to be fixed. Do you remember Kenny Obrien dude had a laser and great accuracy until they said he just burned his arm out from over practicing and wearing out his arm sound familiar

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4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Not concerned with his scrambling and he slid several times before taking a hit which is what you want, not like Sanchez who needed the Yankees to teach him to slide.  

As is customary with the jets offense, simple things are more difficult than they ever have to be.  More than any one thing, the reality of no moore, carter or davis out there has left wilson with no playmakers and the feeling that he has to do most of it himself which is exactly what the coaching staff was preaching they did not want to happen.  But wilson has improved, he’s not forcing nearly as many throws, the ints have reduced. That is real, tangible progress, particularly as his weapons have been sidelined.  With little help from johnson and cole, this offense is destined to suck regardless of who the qb is right now.  As much as any other conclusion, there’s the reality that the jets may well need to draft a wr in the first round so that whoever is playing qb actually has another option besides moore.

sad thing is we THOUGHT we were stacked at WR. we should have been able to be fine with losing 2 guys but Cole did not look good, hopefully its rust since his playing time went to Moore. and Mims, we all look like we got him wrong. 

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Just now, Smashmouth said:

I see plenty that might be an arm issue or even something that's causing him not to be able to grip the football properly. he throwing wobbly passes, and he's throwing short passes into the ground . He's never done that

I'm not sure what other proof is needed. If this is all mental like you're saying then I think that's a much worse situation then having something screwed up in his arm that needs to be fixed. Do you remember Kenny Obrien dude had a laser and great accuracy until they said he just burned his arm out from over practicing and wearing out his arm sound familiar

Agree to disagree. There is no evidence he hurt his arm anywhere. We've never seen him favoring it or any trainers working on it. No whispers of anything. Nothing. 

We know he hurt his knee and we know he's a 22 year old rookie QB. Mental issues are far more likely - in particular, a lack of confidence and being hella nervous to start these games. 

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Just now, doitny said:

sad thing is we THOUGHT we were stacked at WR. we should have been able to be fine with losing 2 guys but Cole did not look good, hopefully its rust since his playing time went to Moore. and Mims, we all look like we got him wrong. 

True and the main problem is mims.  If mims were even decent it would be different.  But now, not only does mims completely suck but his trade value is likely bottomed out. And they really have to consider going wr in round 1.  Besides pass rusher, wr could be the most important need now.  Cole sucks and crowder won’t be back.  Davis is a step above a jag.  The team desperately needs wr help.

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I said this in another thread.  Maybe it’s me making excuses on @jgb twister mat, but I don’t think his knee is completely healthy and that can impact mechanics.  He’s always had unorthodox mechanics, but he does not plant and drive off his back leg hardly at all currently.  He’s all torso.  As a former pitcher who blew out an ACL, I can attest first hand that legs have a lot more to do with accuracy/mechanics than it might appear.

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Agree to disagree. There is no evidence he hurt his arm anywhere. We've never seen him favoring it or any trainers working on it. No whispers of anything. Nothing. 

We know he hurt his knee and we know he's a 22 year old rookie QB. Mental issues are far more likely - in particular, a lack of confidence and being hella nervous to start these games. 

Well His first half's have been probably the worst I have ever seen watching football so there's that. 

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39 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

My guess is he never had to read defenses in College. Like at all. Now that he is forced to now and rather quickly whatever mechanics and footwork he showed up with is being short circuited. Not sure if he could ever learn to do both at the same time. I can hope he could. 

We all hope he can be the guy. Regardless of thoughts on him in the draft. It’s just so frustrating watching him right now. 
 

hope he gets it. 

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2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

True and the main problem is mims.  If mims were even decent it would be different.  But now, not only does mims completely suck but his trade value is likely bottomed out. And they really have to consider going wr in round 1.  Besides pass rusher, wr could be the most important need now.  Cole sucks and crowder won’t be back.  Davis is a step above a jag.  The team desperately needs wr help.

Jets really need to knock it out of the park in FA so that they have flexibility in the draft, particularly with that 2nd first rounder.

 

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1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I said this in another thread.  Maybe it’s me making excuses on @jgb twister mat, but I don’t think his knee is completely healthy and that can impact mechanics.  He’s always had unorthodox mechanics, but he does not plant and drive off his back leg hardly at all currently.  He’s all torso.  As a former pitcher who blew out an ACL, I can attest first hand that legs have a lot more to do with accuracy/mechanics than it might appear.

100% correct but he was terrible before he got hurt 

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1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

100% correct but he was terrible before he got hurt 

Not saying he wasn’t terrible.  And my memory could be failing me, but preinjury I remember greater issues with decision making/timing than pure accuracy. Could be wrong though.  If I had time I’d love to chart each pass he does.  I think his decision making and understanding defenses has gotten a lot better while his accuracy has gotten worse.  

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5 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

100% correct but he was terrible before he got hurt 

Before he got hurt the OL was improving, but was still in shambles.  If you remember it took a few weeks for the OL to figure out how to pick up a stunt.  Moore was coming off of injury that sidelined him through before the preseason and all the way till week 1.  Michael Carter hadn't really come in to his own yet.  Lafleur was still on the sideline and the offense hadn't really figured itself out.

This isn't to make excuses for Zach, it's just to point out that circumstances were different.

The offense is currently beat to hell, if Zach has a "good" game from here on out it'll be sign of massive growth because right now he doesn't really have options.

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13 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I see plenty that might be an arm issue or even something that's causing him not to be able to grip the football properly. he throwing wobbly passes, and he's throwing short passes into the ground . He's never done that

I'm not sure what other proof is needed. If this is all mental like you're saying then I think that's a much worse situation then having something screwed up in his arm that needs to be fixed. Do you remember Kenny Obrien dude had a laser and great accuracy until they said he just burned his arm out from over practicing and wearing out his arm sound familiar

Are you saying that he is hiding an injury that is causing him from reaching a receiver that is standing still 5 yards away from him behind the line of scrimmage? With no defenders in the vicinity? I think it is fairly obvious that this a mental issue. It is alarming for sure, he looked fine in the preseason and had a 70% completion percentage in college. He has the ability, he also started 12/14 in the philly game just 1 week ago. He needs to work through this. Whether it is a rep issue or psychiatric, he needs to figure it out.

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37 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Not saying he wasn’t terrible.  And my memory could be failing me, but preinjury I remember greater issues with decision making/timing than pure accuracy. Could be wrong though.  If I had time I’d love to chart each pass he does.  I think his decision making and understanding defenses has gotten a lot better while his accuracy has gotten worse.  

exactly. 

before he was himself. throwing deep and forcing some throw. after he got injured and Mike White he comes back and is trying to take what the defense gives him more and not look deep as much. and that IMO is messing with his accuracy. he looks uncomfortable now cause he is not this dip and dunk guy. 

he has a gun and likes to use it and the CS has had him holster it. 

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56 minutes ago, Stark said:

We all hope he can be the guy. Regardless of thoughts on him in the draft. It’s just so frustrating watching him right now. 
 

hope he gets it. 

So frustrating. I’m at the point that every time he drops back or rolls out I’m mad before he even throws the ball. Haha 

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

It has nothing to do with his arm 

He’s a young QB who lacks confidence and is probably feeling the pressure inside his head. It’s mostly mental, IMO. He has to learn how to handle the immense pressure and responsibility of the position. 

actually think this is what makes me optimistic about him... he seems like he has an attitude about it where he will obsess on it until it slows down and becomes second nature.  That's why I still think that at some point the light is likely to come on, and that we will see big strides.  But if it doesn't happen by next season, I'd be pretty worried.  

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1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

My guess is he never had to read defenses in College. Like at all. Now that he is forced to now and rather quickly whatever mechanics and footwork he showed up with is being short circuited. Not sure if he could ever learn to do both at the same time. I can hope he could. 

Oh dear lord. I never thought of this. If this is true, we are truly in a world of 💩

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

This would be the case if he was constantly under pressure and he's not. Yesterday he rolled out had a back 5 yards in front of him and threw the ball 2.5 yards. He was never in any danger it was obvious who he was throwing the ball too yet he threw it directly into the ground on a pass a Pee Wee QB could make. Something looks wrong to me and I'm not buying the mental crap. A lot of those preseason throws were under pressure as well and he made them just fine . This is 9 games in and the protection is noticeably better . If 5 yard passes thrown into the dirt are mental issues then he's not going to be an NFL QB because NFL QB's always take hits and I've seen some young QB's take way more hits than Zach has taken this year. 

I think initially it was when he was under pressure. Seem to start after the very first game where he was literally best offensive player in the team that day. Line blew, receivers had the dropsies but Zach hung in and looked as advertised. At this point it has creeped into every throw he makes with or without pressure it seems. Hell wouldn’t be  surprised if his Dad ask him to toss him a wrench and he bounced it off his shin! No idea what it is, but I do know it wasn’t always  there and I think your being presumptive to disregard any chance in full or even partially  being mental. Obviously having  most of his receivers out yesterday exacerbated it, yet, was nice to see him play a game without a pic. Small kinda sad goal, but goal just to same. Honestly likely to see Mike White get smother shot at a game not against Buffalos #1 defense! 

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1 hour ago, Stark said:

We all hope he can be the guy. Regardless of thoughts on him in the draft. It’s just so frustrating watching him right now. 
 

hope he gets it. 

Yesterday was probably the most frustrated I can remember being watching our QBs. The accuracy is so ridiculous right now, he is not even giving the team a chance to compete. 

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