Zach Wilson all preseason throws.

[Big_Slick]

Zach's problem isn't his inability to read NFL defenses or an injury that affects his passes. Zach's problem is that he CHOKES under pressure.

Zach from yesterday's post game press conference
"Throwing has always been, I feel, my strong suit my entire life. Throwing the ball has always been easy, so I need to make it easy."

The kid is a natural passer, he never had to think about mechanics. The problem with that is the 'easy' passes aren't so 'easy' in pressure situations and the results are what we see on the field *during* games when they're still undecided. He chokes 'easy' passes.

During garbage time - zero pressure situation - Zach makes the easy throws.

[Stark]

30 minutes ago, Drums said:

Yesterday was probably the most frustrated I can remember being watching our QBs. The accuracy is so ridiculous right now, he is not even giving the team a chance to compete. 

agree... tough to watch, feels like its just right there to be had and then.... drop / miss wide open WR/TE/RB 

 

 

[Peace Frog]

18 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

 

During garbage time - zero pressure situation - Zach makes the easy throws.

I don’t think it’s choking so much as him being under pressure-mental pressure, too much thinking.

He was god awful yesterday but on that last drive, no pressure, guys playing back, he just effortlessly threw some nice easy catchable balls. 

So weird. 

[Big_Slick]

9 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I don’t think it’s choking so much as him being under pressure-mental pressure, too much thinking.

He was god awful yesterday but on that last drive, no pressure, guys playing back, he just effortlessly threw some nice easy catchable balls. 

So weird. 

That's what I mean. Zach is able to play well except when he's in pressure situations. I call that choking.

That's not on the list of things to look for in your FQB.

[Joe W. Namath]

The fanbase has a right to be concerned about Zach Wilson.  And you can bet there is extreme concern inside this organization regarding this kid.  They didnt bring john beck here because they were happy with his progress.

No one was expecting Zach Wilson to have a Justin herbert type season.  But this is bad.  I am not giving up on him but with each passing bad performance, I am losing confidence that he is the guy.

No one could have predicted that mentally he would go in the tank.  His mind was the reason Joe and Saleh loved the kid.  Mental horsepower was what they were calling it.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I said this in another thread.  Maybe it’s me making excuses on @jgb twister mat, but I don’t think his knee is completely healthy and that can impact mechanics.  He’s always had unorthodox mechanics, but he does not plant and drive off his back leg hardly at all currently.  He’s all torso.  As a former pitcher who blew out an ACL, I can attest first hand that legs have a lot more to do with accuracy/mechanics than it might appear.

I'll be sure to give you credit when my Zach Wilson version of this exciting home game is ready for the market.

[bla bla bla]

2 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Not saying he wasn’t terrible.  And my memory could be failing me, but preinjury I remember greater issues with decision making/timing than pure accuracy. Could be wrong though.  If I had time I’d love to chart each pass he does.  I think his decision making and understanding defenses has gotten a lot better while his accuracy has gotten worse.  

I have all his throws for every game on my YouTube channel with the exception of the Pat's game where he got hurt I think. (As an easy spot to find each throw) I did include some that were negated by penalties since I wanted to see placement.

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

After watching that there were a couple of bad passes but most of them were good. I'm going to go out on a limb here (against my better judgement) and give Zach one more chance to hang on by a thread. Could he have done damage to his arm ? If he did wouldn't the team know? Would he hide that from the team ? Because that's a different QB and some of those passes were even under pressure so does not matter he was playing against tomato cans. This kid always threw spirals and tight ones at that now he's throwing wobblers.

I know you can still play with certain types of rotator cuff injuries then address them in the offseason could the Jets be aware of a possible injury but are still letting him play just to get the exp. reading defenses ? Could this be a problem with his already repaired Rotator cuff and we are running into another Pennington situation ?

This is me being a fan and maybe also an Idiot but I'm trying hard to grasp on to something with the hope this kid is having an issue we just don't know about. We have seen things like this before when a team does not divulge an injury and then there's the mysterious off season surgery.

Maybe not his arm but the knee could be affecting things. He doesnt necessarily drive the ball with his legs but with upper body torque and if his knee prevents a solid platform that would be a huge issue.

[FidelioJet]

It's very bizarre...

I really hope everyone commenting in this thread actually watched that video.

I mean - these are still NFL players....and he's hitting people in stride, deep, short, on the run etc..changing pace, arm angles...everything is just super smooth.  What I thought we were getting.

It's all there - it's not fake, it's not an aberration.  

Whatever the F is going on - is in his head.  I just don't know if he can fix that.   Can he pull himself out of this? or is he Chuck Knoblauch?

Honestly, I have no F-ing idea...

 

 

[FidelioJet]

52 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

The fanbase has a right to be concerned about Zach Wilson.  And you can bet there is extreme concern inside this organization regarding this kid.  They didnt bring john beck here because they were happy with his progress.

No one was expecting Zach Wilson to have a Justin herbert type season.  But this is bad.  I am not giving up on him but with each passing bad performance, I am losing confidence that he is the guy.

No one could have predicted that mentally he would go in the tank.  His mind was the reason Joe and Saleh loved the kid.  Mental horsepower was what they were calling it.

But he has clearly made progress with his decision making, not playing hero ball, not forcing thing...taking check downs..etc.  That's what they were talking about with mentally.  That part of his game has really progressed and nice to see..making much better decisions..

Right now his head is ****ed up.  Yes, def. mental but not what they were thinking...

No one could have foreseen that he wouldn't be able to hit a 10 yard out or a swing pass...I mean it's never been a problem for him his entire career (I've watched all his throws through college too) 

It's just really ******* strange.

[sec101row23]

People still haven’t learned to not believe anything you see during Pre-season.  Especially now where so many players don’t even play in Pre-season anymore.  

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

People still haven’t learned to not believe anything you see during Pre-season.  Especially now where so many players don’t even play in Pre-season anymore.  

It's not about yardage, TD's - completion pct., wins, losses... etc...That's pre-season issues..

Zach issues are beyond that - We're not talking about improperly reading coverages (yes, that's happening - but that's not the big issue here - he's getting better with that)

We're talking about the very basics of throwing the football....The kid can throw an accurate ball, he can throw the with touch, change pace when needed, hit swing passes in stride etc...for whatever reason - he's not right now.

Those things are all clearly part of who he is - this is, IMO, beyond - "the game is too fast for him". Something else is going on.

[sec101row23]

39 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's not about yardage, TD's - completion pct., wins, losses... etc...That's pre-season issues..

Zach issues are beyond that - We're not talking about improperly reading coverages (yes, that's happening - but that's not the big issue here - he's getting better with that)

We're talking about the very basics of throwing the football....The kid can throw an accurate ball, he can throw the with touch, change pace when needed, hit swing passes in stride etc...for whatever reason - he's not right now.

Those things are all clearly part of who he is - this is, IMO, beyond - "the game is too fast for him". Something else is going on.

I’m going to play amateur psychologist for a minute.  It’s not a secret that Zach is having a crisis of confidence right now.   Just look at him on the sideline, he looks downright sad at times.  He goes straight to the bench and his hand holders come over and surround him.  He looks meek.  
 

You need to have an arrogance and cockiness about you to play QB in the NFL, an over confidence.   Zach doesn’t have that.  Players see this as well.  I don’t think his team mates have bought in to him, and Zach knows this.    If you listen to Bart Scott and Willie Colon on the post games shows they allude to this.  Everyone said it was great that Zach could sit and watch for a few weeks, but I think the success the Jets had was the worst thing that could have happened for Zach.  It really just magnified Zach’s issues and put a lot of the blame on him.  Zach isn’t blind, he saw how the team reacted to Mike White.  Chanting his name in the locker room, the enthusiasm on the sidelines after scores.  The Jets staff couldn’t wait to pull the plug on Mike White, I’m sure they sensed the direction the locker room was going.   
 

He just seems soft to me and the players kind of sense it too.   The perception of him now is vastly different than the one back in July.   

Also, this probably won’t help his mama boy imagine either….Lol

 

 

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I’m going to play amateur psychologist for a minute.  It’s not a secret that Zach is having a crisis of confidence right now.   Just look at him on the sideline, he looks downright sad at times.  He goes straight to the bench and his hand holders come over and surround him.  He looks meek.  
 

You need to have an arrogance and cockiness about you to play QB in the NFL, an over confidence.   Zach doesn’t have that.  Players see this as well.  I don’t think his team mates have bought in to him, and Zach knows this.    If you listen to Bart Scott and Willie Colon on the post games shows they allude to this.  Everyone said it was great that Zach could sit and watch for a few weeks, but I think the success the Jets had was the worst thing that could have happened for Zach.  It really just magnified Zach’s issues and put a lot of the blame on him.  Zach isn’t blind, he saw how the team reacted to Mike White.  Chanting his name in the locker room, the enthusiasm on the sidelines after scores.  The Jets staff couldn’t wait to pull the plug on Mike White, I’m sure they sensed the direction the locker room was going.   
 

He just seems soft to me and the players kind of sense it too.   The perception of him now is vastly different than the one back in July.   

 

I don't know if it's confidence or something else...

But it has nothing to do with Mike White - we really need to stop with that.  We saw what Mike White will do when a team is prepared.- there is a reason Mike White is a career practice squad player.  The team rallied around him because it was a cute story..but nothing more.  They didn't pull Mike White because of ZW's confidence - it's ridiculous on its face, they pulled Mike White because he's not good.  

Bart Scott is like so many on this board - he disliked Zach pre-draft and has dug his feet in - Taking anything he says as serious is absurd.

For crying out loud- all we heard about the kid pre-draft was how cocky he was and how he might be too confidence in himself ect...Now he's not arrogant enough?

Zach's issues may be confidence, it may be something else - it's clearly in his head,  because the talent is there...

But it's not Mike White.  

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't know if it's confidence or something else...

But it has nothing to do with Mike White - we really need to stop with that.  We saw what Mike White will do when a team is prepared.- there is a reason Mike White is a career practice squad player.  The team rallied around him because it was a cute story..but nothing more.  They didn't pull Mike White because of ZW's confidence - it's ridiculous on its face, they pulled Mike White because he's not good.  

Bart Scott is like so many on this board - he disliked Zach pre-draft and has dug his feet in - Taking anything he says as serious is absurd.

For crying out loud- all we heard about the kid pre-draft was how cocky he was and how he might be too confidence in himself ect...Now he's not arrogant enough?

Zach's issues may be confidence, it may be something else - it's clearly in his head,  because the talent is there...

But it's not Mike White.  

It’s not all Mike White, but you’re crazy if you think the way the team reacted to him didn’t affect Zach.  Zach is a lost puppy.  The team needed to bring in his personal QB coach and his mommy is fighting people who are criticizing him on instagram.   These are bad looks for Zach, and they hardly inspire confidence from his teammates.  He’s a mess.  

[jetswinbaby!]

Zach needs to start throwing the football like he's throwing a bag of Pirate's Booty from the kitchen to his superhot babe of a GF lounging on the living room couch...

[doitny]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It's not about yardage, TD's - completion pct., wins, losses... etc...That's pre-season issues..

Zach issues are beyond that - We're not talking about improperly reading coverages (yes, that's happening - but that's not the big issue here - he's getting better with that)

We're talking about the very basics of throwing the football....The kid can throw an accurate ball, he can throw the with touch, change pace when needed, hit swing passes in stride etc...for whatever reason - he's not right now.

Those things are all clearly part of who he is - this is, IMO, beyond - "the game is too fast for him". Something else is going on.

we changed the kid. thats messing with his mind.

we drafted a gunslinger. but after Mike White we all changed our minds and wanted a Checkdown Charlie. if thats who we wanted then we should have drafted Mac. 

you can see hes not himself back there. thinking too hard as to where to throw it. its like hes trying not to throw it deep.

he struggles before White but he was getting better. while still being himself. that play vs NE he got hurt on in the 1st qt was a 40 plus yd pass that was a PI. what was his deepest pass yesterday? the 25 yd incomplete to Crowder in the endzone that was Mims 1st penalty? 

give the kid his gun back. let him be him. the kid we drafted. for better or for worst cause right now the kid dont look like he has a chance to be good . let him be who he was is his only chance.

 

 

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, doitny said:

 

give the kid his gun back. let him be him. the kid we drafted. for better or for worst cause right now the kid dont look like he has a chance to be good . let him be who he was is his only chance.

 

 

At this point..why not?

[FidelioJet]

4 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Zach's problem isn't his inability to read NFL defenses or an injury that affects his passes. Zach's problem is that he CHOKES under pressure.

Zach from yesterday's post game press conference
"Throwing has always been, I feel, my strong suit my entire life. Throwing the ball has always been easy, so I need to make it easy."

The kid is a natural passer, he never had to think about mechanics. The problem with that is the 'easy' passes aren't so 'easy' in pressure situations and the results are what we see on the field *during* games when they're still undecided. He chokes 'easy' passes.

During garbage time - zero pressure situation - Zach makes the easy throws.

This may very well be the case....I think it's as reasonable a hypotheses as anything else.

He could just be a choke artist.  I don't think that's fixable.  

I hope it's something else!

[jgb]

Anyone have his pee wee tape? Still don’t have enough data to have an opinion on him.

[Hal N of Provo]

7 hours ago, doitny said:

 

so this is from the preseason. i know there Vanilla defenses but he doesnt bounce anything except one pass. no throws behind anyone. doesnt throw any fireballs. and a screen pass should be vanilla right? wide open guy in the flat. i think his problem is mental. he cant read the defenses right now. there fooling him. i think this can be fix with time and experience. i dont think you can read defenses from the sidelines.

 

 

 

Agreed 100%.  And I think he will get it in time and be fine.  It was his strength in college and when the looks were vanilla.  I knew he’d struggle in this game and everyone would freak out.   The New Orleans man matchups were going to mess him up.  

[Big_Slick]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I really hope everyone commenting in this thread actually watched that video.

Zach looked OK during the pre-season games, nothing that raised any red flags and he showed enough to give hope he could develop into a legit NFL QB.

Unfortunately that's not the Zach we've been watching.

He does have the ability and should be able to overcome these 'performance anxiety' issues. He's not at a Chuck Knoblouck level.

He just needs to build his confidence.