Cope/Hope thread.

[yvj]

This thread isn't about logic. It's about the heart, magic, homerism and the spirit of Christmas.

Regarding Zach, I am not a student of game film, but within the context of my limited perspective and bias, I say with confidence that I did not see this level of pure potential from the likes of Sanchez or Darnold. And yes that is saying something considering Zach has not even played a full season. The rare times the kid has gotten it right it's been magic. I'm not ready to give up this dream and I'm not ready to accept Mike White being our Tannehill.  Get him a season of reps and a sports psychologist if that is what we need. Get his head right. 

JD, Saleh, Lafleur. Injuries have added some tangy barbecue sauce to the rookie mistakes they've made. Some people will not, but I consider this JDs first real team and there are some success stories and some real failures. It's been the definition of a mixed bag,  but I don't think the failures are as much stupidity as overconfidence. Hopefully JD has been humbled by some of his worst gambles *cough* kicker * cough*. Lafluer has shown he can adjust to the things within his control, lots of potential here. Saleh has been the captain of too many blowouts to my liking but the roster talent and injuries  haven't done him any favors. I haven't seen real Gase like "this guy just doesn't get it" moments. Again a whole lot of potential

And that is my cope. Feel free to cope along with me if it pleases you. 

[The Crusher]

I oddly feel like the target audience for this particular thread. 

[jgb]

If Wilson becomes a FQB at this point, it will make the Josh Allen story look like a totally normal QB development/progression case.

[slimjasi]

[munchmemory]

No matter the player, HC or era, folks just see what they want to see.  

[Jetsfan80]

When's the "Nope/Mope" thread coming?

[munchmemory]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

When's the "Nope/Mope" thread coming?

A man after my own heart.

[jago]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

When's the "Nope/Mope" thread coming?

as long as nobody breaks out the rope. its only a game.

[TuscanyTile2]

There's only 1 other QB I've ever felt had as much potential as Zach does and that's Brett Ratliff.

[varjet]

Unfortunately the only logical answer is to give ZW, JD and Saleh and his staff another year to see what they can do.  

[UntouchableCrew]

I'll play along.

The best case scenario/fantasy:

• Wilson spends the offseason training not only with Beck to fix his fundamentals but with some kind of sport and performance psychologist. He comes back highly motivated and focused and stuns everyone with a breakout season.
• Mekhi Becton and AVT turn into a dominant combination on the left side of the Jets offensive line. Becton plays all 17 games.
• Elijah Moore makes the Pro Bowl as the primary beneficiary of Wilson's emergence. Jets draft another WR (David Bell?) who is also highly productive.
• The Jets running game gets going and they have three different RBs with over 600 yards from scrimmage.
• The Jets add two studs in the draft on the DL (let's say George Karlaftis and DeMarvin Leal.) Karlaftis posts 12 sacks and wins DROY. Quinnen Williams has a breakout season with double digit sacks as well. Carl Lawson comes back strong and along with JFM the Jets have a suddenly imposing defensive line that gives opposing offenses trouble.
• Jets young secondary players continue to improve. Ashytn Davis looks like a player.
• With a surprising top fifteen offense the Jets play complimentary football. They're in almost every game and finish 10-7 and make a wild card. The future suddenly looks bright.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'll play along.

The best case scenario/fantasy:

• Wilson spends the offseason training not only with Beck to fix his fundamentals but with some kind of sport and performance psychologist. He comes back highly motivated and focused and stuns everyone with a breakout season.
• Mekhi Becton and AVT turn into a dominant combination on the left side of the Jets offensive line. Becton plays all 17 games.
• Elijah Moore makes the Pro Bowl as the primary beneficiary of Wilson's emergence. Jets draft another WR (David Bell?) who is also highly productive.
• The Jets running game gets going and they have three different RBs with over 600 yards from scrimmage.
• The Jets add two studs in the draft on the DL (let's say George Karlaftis and DeMarvin Leal.) Karlaftis posts 12 sacks and wins DROY. Quinnen Williams has a breakout season with double digit sacks as well. Carl Lawson comes back strong and along with JFM the Jets have a suddenly imposing defensive line that gives opposing offenses trouble.
• Jets young secondary players continue to improve. Ashytn Davis looks like a player.
• With a surprising top fifteen offense the Jets play complimentary football. They're in almost every game and finish 10-7 and make a wild card. The future suddenly looks bright.

[Irish Jet]

Just do drugs.

[undertow]

Do we really need a thread for hope delusion seems to be very popular among the fanbase right now.

[Sonny Werblin]

Seriously, I don't get all of the angst about Wilson. Either he works out or he doesn't. If he doesn't we just plug some non descript veteran at QB.  The stinky little frenchman has already shown us that his offense can produce with that type of QB. 

[Warfish]

The very fact that a thread like this must exist, says everything that needs said about Zach Wilson.

Ask yourself this, what is more likely:

1. Wilson, the worst QB in the NFL, will rise up and become a top 10 QB?

2. Wilson, the worst QB in the NFL, is a bust, time will not make him great, and the Jets would be wise to move on to the next roll of the dice sooner, rather than later?

I think the problem is folks get invested in these kids.  Especially here, where we talk about them, and get behind each one, for months on end.  When you've been saying "Zach is the man, he will be great" for a year and a half, it's harder to accept it when he just...isn't.  And almost assuredly never will be.

The test:  If Zach Wilson were a Patriot, or a Dolphin or a BIll, every single Wilson supporter on this site would have already written him off as a huge bust mistake already.  Every single one.  You're only clinging to the slim chance of a historic rebound because he's "our guy".  If he was anyone elses, you'd have no trouble seeing him for what he is.

Sure, there is a chance, albeit small, that Wilson rises phoenix-like, in future seasons.  The "But, Manning did it!" exception to the rule. 

The odds say Wilson is a bust. The Jets can spend the next three years making sure, or they can pivot and bring in competition and make Zach earn the job. If he earns it, great, maybe he will rebound.  If not, we get to play a competent NFL QB and not give up on every season before it starts, as many Wilson fans are already doing now.

[jgb]

 

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The very fact that a thread like this must exist, says everything that needs said about Zach Wilson.

Ask yourself this, what is more likely:

1. Wilson, the worst QB in the NFL, will rise up and become a top 10 QB?

2. Wilson, the worst QB in the NFL, is a bust, time will not make him great, and the Jets would be wise to move on to the next roll of the dice sooner, rather than later?

I think the problem is folks get invested in these kids.  Especially here, where we talk about them, and get behind each one, for months on end.  When you've been saying "Zach is the man, he will be great" for a year and a half, it's harder to accept it when he just...isn't.  And almost assuredly never will be.

The test:  If Zach Wilson were a Patriot, or a Dolphin or a BIll, every single Wilson supporter on this site would have already written him off as a huge bust mistake already.  Every single one.  You're only clinging to the slim chance of a historic rebound because he's "our guy".  If he was anyone elses, you'd have no trouble seeing him for what he is.

Sure, there is a chance, albeit small, that Wilson rises phoenix-like, in future seasons.  The "But, Manning did it!" exception to the rule. 

The odds say Wilson is a bust. The Jets can spend the next three years making sure, or they can pivot and bring in competition and make Zach earn the job. If he earns it, great, maybe he will rebound.  If not, we get to play a competent NFL QB and not give up on every season before it starts, as many Wilson fans are already doing now.

You've nicely expounded upon my long-proclaimed self-objectivity test. If the situation were reversed, and the same thing was happening to the Fins, would I be scared or laughing my ass off?

[y2k8]

 

The greatest Jets season of my lifetime began with our great young QB hope under center. He got hurt and in came the journeyman vet who proceeded to lead the team to the AFC Championship game.

It's a lot easier to sign a Vinny Testaverde than it is to draft a Patrick Mahomes.

 

[kevinc855]

[Saul Goodman]

19 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Seriously, I don't get all of the angst about Wilson. Either he works out or he doesn't. If he doesn't we just plug some non descript veteran at QB.  The stinky little frenchman has already shown us that his offense can produce with that type of QB. 

We could’ve had what Miami received from the 49’ers for the pick we used on Zach.
 

12th overall pick in 2021, 2021 3rd, 2022 1st and 2023 1st. It’s sickening, the entire future of the franchise could’ve been altered. Ugh.  

[undertow]

2 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

We could’ve had what Miami received from the 49’ers for the pick we used on Zach.
 

12th overall pick in 2021, 2021 3rd, 2022 1st and 2023 1st. It’s sickening, the entire future of the franchise could’ve been altered. Ugh.  

Yeah I mean who cares if Wilson busts I don't get what people are all upset about. lol

[slimjasi]

10 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

 

The greatest Jets season of my lifetime began with our great young QB hope under center. He got hurt and in came the journeyman vet who proceeded to lead the team to the AFC Championship game.

It's a lot easier to sign a Vinny Testaverde than it is to draft a Patrick Mahomes.

 

Yea, but the problem with the Vinny T types is that their success is fleeting and hard to invest in long term. Sure, you can have a flash in the pan season with a Vinny or a Fitz, but then what?

Why can’t we ever develop a good young QB? Why is it that every other team in our division gets 10+ year runs of being a perennial contender with QBs they drafted (Marino, Kelly, Brady, Allen), while we have to wait around for the occasional flash in the pan season from a forgotten vet? 
 

The Jets will never be the franchise we want them to be until they can develop a young QB. 

[Green Ghost]

50 minutes ago, varjet said:

Unfortunately the only logical answer is to give ZW, JD and Saleh and his staff another year to see what they can do.  

Here’s the rub.

If you were really being logical about it, you wouldn’t give them another year.
What have they shown you this year that impressed you enough that would warrant it?

[jgb]

28 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

 

The greatest Jets season of my lifetime began with our great young QB hope under center. He got hurt and in came the journeyman vet who proceeded to lead the team to the AFC Championship game.

It's a lot easier to sign a Vinny Testaverde than it is to draft a Patrick Mahomes.

 

Which is why you look low and high and sideways for The Man and you never stop. High picks, low picks, FAs, trades. ABI — Always Be Improving your QB room. Instead teams take an “all of nothing” approach to highly drafted QBs which is insane since most QBs bust and backup plans are cheap and easy to acquire. All from fear of “breaking the kid’s confidence.” People value stuff more when they earn it and will fight harder to keep it. Psychological fact.

[yvj]

41 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The very fact that a thread like this must exist, says everything that needs said about Zach Wilson.

Ask yourself this, what is more likely:

1. Wilson, the worst QB in the NFL, will rise up and become a top 10 QB?

2. Wilson, the worst QB in the NFL, is a bust, time will not make him great, and the Jets would be wise to move on to the next roll of the dice sooner, rather than later?

I think the problem is folks get invested in these kids.  Especially here, where we talk about them, and get behind each one, for months on end.  When you've been saying "Zach is the man, he will be great" for a year and a half, it's harder to accept it when he just...isn't.  And almost assuredly never will be.

The test:  If Zach Wilson were a Patriot, or a Dolphin or a BIll, every single Wilson supporter on this site would have already written him off as a huge bust mistake already.  Every single one.  You're only clinging to the slim chance of a historic rebound because he's "our guy".  If he was anyone elses, you'd have no trouble seeing him for what he is.

Sure, there is a chance, albeit small, that Wilson rises phoenix-like, in future seasons.  The "But, Manning did it!" exception to the rule. 

The odds say Wilson is a bust. The Jets can spend the next three years making sure, or they can pivot and bring in competition and make Zach earn the job. If he earns it, great, maybe he will rebound.  If not, we get to play a competent NFL QB and not give up on every season before it starts, as many Wilson fans are already doing now.

The thread exists because I found it amusing, don't take it too seriously. Some of you guys are super upset about other people not being as upset as you are. Listen I hated Tom Brady for years and now I have no problem admiting that he is the goat. It is what is, if Zach busts he busts, when it comes to sports time will tell us the truth eventually. 

[jgb]

24 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Nico probing Max’s site security 

[thebuzzardman]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

When's the "Nope/Mope" thread coming?

That's all the other threads, near so far as I can tell. 

[yvj]

1 minute ago, thebuzzardman said:

That's all the other threads, near so far as I can tell. 

Not nearly enough for the logicians, scientists, philosphers and truth tellers on this board. 

[y2k8]

30 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yea, but the problem with the Vinny T types is that their success is fleeting and hard to invest in long term. Sure, you can have a flash in the pan season with a Vinny or a Fitz, but then what?

Why can’t we ever develop a good young QB? Why is it that every other team in our division gets 10+ year runs of being a perennial contender with QBs they drafted (Marino, Kelly, Brady, Allen), while we have to wait around for the occasional flash in the pan season from a forgotten vet? 
 

The Jets will never be the franchise we want them to be until they can develop a young QB. 

All the QBs you mentioned were drafted into team's that didn't completely suck. As was Mahomes, Watson, Lamar, etc. 

The only time we did that was with Sanchez, as evidenced by his initial success. 

If Darnold/Wilson picks have convinced me of one thing, picking a QB without a proper environment to support him is just pissing into the wind. 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

All the QBs you mentioned were drafted into team's that didn't completely suck. As was Mahomes, Watson, Lamar, etc. 

The only time we did that was with Sanchez, as evidenced by his initial success. 

If Darnold/Wilson picks have convinced me of one thing, picking a QB without a proper environment to support him is just pissing into the wind. 

 

So if we have a chance to draft Patrick Mahomes we shouldn't take him?

[Sonny Werblin]

53 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

We could’ve had what Miami received from the 49’ers for the pick we used on Zach.
 

12th overall pick in 2021, 2021 3rd, 2022 1st and 2023 1st. It’s sickening, the entire future of the franchise could’ve been altered. Ugh.  

Well you can't turn back the clock and make every decision with 20/20 hindsight. You can only move forward from where you are.

[JoJoTownsell1]

55 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

We could’ve had what Miami received from the 49’ers for the pick we used on Zach.
 

12th overall pick in 2021, 2021 3rd, 2022 1st and 2023 1st. It’s sickening, the entire future of the franchise could’ve been altered. Ugh.  

Well imagine what the Jags could have gotten for their #1 pick!! 

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'll play along.

The best case scenario/fantasy:

• Wilson spends the offseason training not only with Beck to fix his fundamentals but with some kind of sport and performance psychologist. He comes back highly motivated and focused and stuns everyone with a breakout season.
• Mekhi Becton and AVT turn into a dominant combination on the left side of the Jets offensive line. Becton plays all 17 games.
• Elijah Moore makes the Pro Bowl as the primary beneficiary of Wilson's emergence. Jets draft another WR (David Bell?) who is also highly productive.
• The Jets running game gets going and they have three different RBs with over 600 yards from scrimmage.
• The Jets add two studs in the draft on the DL (let's say George Karlaftis and DeMarvin Leal.) Karlaftis posts 12 sacks and wins DROY. Quinnen Williams has a breakout season with double digit sacks as well. Carl Lawson comes back strong and along with JFM the Jets have a suddenly imposing defensive line that gives opposing offenses trouble.
• Jets young secondary players continue to improve. Ashytn Davis looks like a player.
• With a surprising top fifteen offense the Jets play complimentary football. They're in almost every game and finish 10-7 and make a wild card. The future suddenly looks bright.

I’m cutting and pasting this badboy onto my Christmas list. 

[BurnleyJet]

Wow don’t know where to begin with this. Please understand we are terrible, and it isn’t going to change any time soon.

We are all Jets fans, but failure is now so ingrained within its very structure I can’t see when it will change. 

I can’t take anything they do seriously, and no longer take it personally when they embarrass themselves.

[Ken Schroy]

2 hours ago, yvj said:

This thread isn't about logic. It's about the heart, magic, homerism and the spirit of Christmas.

Regarding Zach, I am not a student of game film, but within the context of my limited perspective and bias, I say with confidence that I did not see this level of pure potential from the likes of Sanchez or Darnold. And yes that is saying something considering Zach has not even played a full season. The rare times the kid has gotten it right it's been magic. I'm not ready to give up this dream and I'm not ready to accept Mike White being our Tannehill.  Get him a season of reps and a sports psychologist if that is what we need. Get his head right. 

JD, Saleh, Lafleur. Injuries have added some tangy barbecue sauce to the rookie mistakes they've made. Some people will not, but I consider this JDs first real team and there are some success stories and some real failures. It's been the definition of a mixed bag,  but I don't think the failures are as much stupidity as overconfidence. Hopefully JD has been humbled by some of his worst gambles *cough* kicker * cough*. Lafluer has shown he can adjust to the things within his control, lots of potential here. Saleh has been the captain of too many blowouts to my liking but the roster talent and injuries  haven't done him any favors. I haven't seen real Gase like "this guy just doesn't get it" moments. Again a whole lot of potential

And that is my cope. Feel free to cope along with me if it pleases you. 

His problems are between his ears and may or possibly not fixable. Time will tell.