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Cope/Hope thread.


yvj

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1 hour ago, yvj said:

The thread exists because I found it amusing, don't take it too seriously.

Welcome to the internet, lol.

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Some of you guys are super upset about other people not being as upset as you are.

Only as upset as some of you are at us being upset. :-k

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It is what is, if Zach busts he busts, when it comes to sports time will tell us the truth eventually. 

Maybe it's because we've been so bad, for so long.

Or maybe it's because I'm facing my 50's in the near future.

The road ahead is starting to look shorter than the road behind.

I'm not sure I want to wait years on a guy like Wilson.

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

Which is why you look low and high and sideways for The Man and you never stop. High picks, low picks, FAs, trades. ABI — Always Be Improving your QB room. Instead teams take an “all of nothing” approach to highly drafted QBs which is insane since most QBs bust and backup plans are cheap and easy to acquire. All from fear of “breaking the kid’s confidence.” People value stuff more when they earn it and will fight harder to keep it. Psychological fact.

I think people were afraid of passing on the next Mahomes, Watson, Allen. or Herbert.....what they don't take into account is these guys usually aren't the top guys ranked by the media or even scouts.  From a historical standpoint the Jets were far more likely to find the next FQB trading back to 12 and taking Jones or Fields then they were drafting the hot shot kid from BYU the media fell in love with.  

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Welcome to the internet, lol.

Only as upset as some of you are at us being upset. :-k

Maybe it's because we've been so bad, for so long.

Or maybe it's because I'm facing my 50's in the near future.

The road ahead is starting to look shorter than the road behind.

I'm not sure I want to wait years on a guy like Wilson.

Honestly the Darnold wounds are still fresh so I can understand. 

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11 minutes ago, undertow said:

I think people were afraid of passing on the next Mahomes, Watson, Allen. or Herbert.....what they don't take into account is these guys usually aren't the top guys ranked by the media or even scouts.  From a historical standpoint the Jets were far more likely to find the next FQB trading back to 12 and taking Jones or Fields then they were drafting the hot shot kid from BYU the media fell in love with.  

Draft pundits are trailing indicators. They want to be right on who picks who (immediate gratification). Not so much on who busts or not (which can take years to play out after everyone has already move on). I believe the Jet’s reported interest in Wilson created a self-reinforcing media feedback loop.

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59 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

All the QBs you mentioned were drafted into team's that didn't completely suck. As was Mahomes, Watson, Lamar, etc. 

The only time we did that was with Sanchez, as evidenced by his initial success. 

If Darnold/Wilson picks have convinced me of one thing, picking a QB without a proper environment to support him is just pissing into the wind. 

 

But it’s not even about those teams. The Colts sucked before picking Manning and Luck. (Worst team in the league both times). The Broncos sucked before taking Elway. The cardinals sucked before taking Murray. Etc. 

and even if you want to build the team first - ok, fine. The point is, the Jets will never be a perennial contender until they can develop a young QB of their own who can be here for a decade plus. It’s as simple as that. 

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1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

Here’s the rub.

If you were really being logical about it, you wouldn’t give them another year.
What have they shown you this year that impressed you enough that would warrant it?

Pour them all out and who wants to give up a successful coordinator position for a head coach role over a lousy roster when you might not last one season? Who wants to be a first round QB to come to a team where you might get cut or traded after one year with a lousy head coach?

Seasons always start at 0-0 but teams don't get to hit reset every year and make new decisions without any effect from their prior decisions. NYJ is already an undesirable destination for coaches and players. Making it more undesirable isn't going to help. No winning coach is coming here just for the challenge of trying to turn around an entire organization with potentially only a year to make it happen. 

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49 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

SURPRISE!

The hope/cope thread is littered with the same handful of negative posters that ruin every thread on this site.  

We are the most positive people on the site. We think most of the problems are due to one player and we are one piece away from a competitive offense. The “positive” ones blame: weaponz, OL, OC, coaching staff, owner, JD, and other fans (100+ people) all to protect 1 dude. 

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

If Wilson becomes a FQB at this point, it will make the Josh Allen story look like a totally normal QB development/progression case.

 

The best hope we have for Wilson is that it's suddenly discovered he is actually left-handed.  Turns out that not even he or his parents knew this for his entire life.  We realize that he has somehow been throwing remarkably well with his other hand.  But when they put the ball in his left hand for the first time.... oh baby!!  He drops back a few steps and throws a god**amn missile from the AHC practice field that lands in Long Island.

There is much rejoicing.

 

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14 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

But it’s not even about those teams. The Colts sucked before picking Manning and Luck. (Worst team in the league both times). The Broncos sucked before taking Elway. The cardinals sucked before taking Murray. Etc. 

and even if you want to build the team first - ok, fine. The point is, the Jets will never be a perennial contender until they can develop a young QB of their own who can be here for a decade plus. It’s as simple as that. 

If you want to cherry pick a few HoF players from the last century to make your point, have at it, but recent evidence clearly points to building a team first and then drafting your young QB.

Possible exceptions are the dual threat QBs (like Kyler Murray) or Andrew Luck. 

 

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2 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

If you want to cherry pick a few HoF players from the last century to make your point, have at it, but recent evidence clearly points to building a team first and then drafting your young QB.

Possible exceptions are the dual threat QBs (like Kyler Murray) or Andrew Luck. 

 

I'm not sure what the disconnect is here, but you are arguing about something that I am not. 

I never distinguished between building the team first or finding the QB first. You want to build the team first? Sure. I'm in. That's irrelevant to my point. 

My point is that the Jets won't be the type of team that we want them to be (i.e.  a perennial contender - a team that has a legit chance to compete for the playoffs and win a ring every single year) until we can draft and develop our own young QB. 

If you want to try and fortify the rest of the roster first while we tread water with a veteran -  fine. But, at the end of the day, we need to be able to draft and develop a QB if we are ever going to have long term success. 

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7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I'm not sure what the disconnect is here, but you are arguing about something that I am not. 

I never distinguished between building the team first or finding the QB first. You want to build the team first? Sure. I'm in. That's irrelevant to my point. 

My point is that the Jets won't be the type of team that we want them to be (i.e.  a perennial contender - a team that has a legit chance to compete for the playoffs and win a ring every single year) until we can draft and develop our own young QB. 

If you want to try and fortify the rest of the roster first while we tread water with a veteran -  fine. But, at the end of the day, we need to be able to draft and develop a QB if we are ever going to have long term success. 

In the last decade we have seen the Buccaneers, Eagles, Broncos and Saints win SuperBowls with a QB another team drafted, so I reject your hypothesis.

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29 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

If you want to cherry pick a few HoF players from the last century to make your point, have at it, but recent evidence clearly points to building a team first and then drafting your young QB.

Possible exceptions are the dual threat QBs (like Kyler Murray) or Andrew Luck. 

 

Lol cherry pick HOFers. Some of you need to read in your heads before hitting submit.

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3 hours ago, yvj said:

This thread isn't about logic. It's about the heart, magic, homerism and the spirit of Christmas.

Regarding Zach, I am not a student of game film, but within the context of my limited perspective and bias, I say with confidence that I did not see this level of pure potential from the likes of Sanchez or Darnold. And yes that is saying something considering Zach has not even played a full season. The rare times the kid has gotten it right it's been magic. I'm not ready to give up this dream and I'm not ready to accept Mike White being our Tannehill.  Get him a season of reps and a sports psychologist if that is what we need. Get his head right. 

JD, Saleh, Lafleur. Injuries have added some tangy barbecue sauce to the rookie mistakes they've made. Some people will not, but I consider this JDs first real team and there are some success stories and some real failures. It's been the definition of a mixed bag,  but I don't think the failures are as much stupidity as overconfidence. Hopefully JD has been humbled by some of his worst gambles *cough* kicker * cough*. Lafluer has shown he can adjust to the things within his control, lots of potential here. Saleh has been the captain of too many blowouts to my liking but the roster talent and injuries  haven't done him any favors. I haven't seen real Gase like "this guy just doesn't get it" moments. Again a whole lot of potential

And that is my cope. Feel free to cope along with me if it pleases you. 

I am with you brother. I see lots of upside with Wilson and this staff. Next year will be better and the year after that we will have a solid foundation for the first time since Rex. And Rex's foundation was built by Mangini. So a little more patience and we will get there.

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13 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

In the last decade we have seen the Buccaneers, Eagles, Broncos and Saints win SuperBowls with a QB another team drafted, so I reject your hypothesis.

Yeah, you're still missing the point. 

The goal isn't to have a flash in the pan season and then go back to being a laughingstock. 

The goal is to become a perennial contender. 

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8 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yeah, you're still missing the point. 

The goal isn't to have a flash in the pan season and then go back to being a laughingstock. 

The goal is to become a perennial contender. 

I’ll take a flash in the pan season over annual double nut kicks with taint stabbings

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4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Yeah, you're still missing the point. 

The goal isn't to have a flash in the pan season and then go back to being a laughingstock. 

The goal is to become a perennial contender. 

Maybe that's YOUR goal. It's not mine.

My goal is to see this stupid franchise that I have been rooting for since the late 1970s win a Super Bowl.

I do not care how it happens as long as it happens before I die. I've already given up hope to see it happen while my father's still alive (who is now north of 75). Frankly, I doubt I will live long enough to see it.

Maybe you're young enough to want style points. I don't have that luxury.

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4 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

Maybe that's YOUR goal. It's not mine.

My goal is to see this stupid franchise that I have been rooting for since the late 1970s win a Super Bowl.

I do not care how it happens as long as it happens before I die. I've already given up hope to see it happen while my father's still alive (who is now north of 75). Frankly, I doubt I will live long enough to see it.

Maybe you're young enough to want style points. I don't have that luxury.

The best chance to win the Super Bowl is to be in contention every year (i.e. to be a perennial contender)

The best chance to do that is to drat and develop your own QB.

If you want to build the roster up first, I can dig it. I'm agnostic on that debate. It's been done successfully both ways many times. 

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2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

 

 

FYI, 22 out of the last 30 SB winners drafted their own QB

edit: 22

And all but like 2 of last 20 are in the HOF are well on their way. 

There are 100 roads to a ring and 90 of them start with a great QB.

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1 minute ago, y2k8 said:

Not quite sure what is so ridiculous about my post. He was cherry picking ancient outliers. 

 

So he should make his point without referring to the most successful QBs of all time? You should enter a bicycle race with square wheels.

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