Cope/Hope thread.

[jgb]

Just now, slimjasi said:

ancient ? 

Kylar Murray was two years ago. 

It's ok to admit you were wrong on the internet. You aren't going to get in trouble or anything. 

He can’t even admit he was wrong about Foles not being drafted by the Birds. This is probably a waste of time.

[Hal N of Provo]

   I saw the title and said to myself @jgb and company will crap all over this thread. 
 

looked over and saw avatar of last poster.   
 

“Yep.” 
 

lol.  

[y2k8]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

 

 

FYI, 22 out of the last 30 SB winners drafted their own QB

edit: 22

Now do teams that drafted that QB with a top 10 pick.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Hal N of Provo said:

   I saw the title and said to myself @jgb and company will crap all over this thread. 
 

looked over and saw avatar of last poster.   
 

“Yep.” 
 

lol.  

Reality does have a way of soiling magical thinking. 

[slimjasi]

Just now, y2k8 said:

Now do teams that drafted that QB with a top 10 pick.

"Now change the argument so I can be right"

Again - this is your argument. Not mine. I have no issue building the team first. None. I go back and forth on that. If you want to tell me the Jets should use all of their draft picks and FA money to build up the team up in 2021-2022 and draft a QB in 2023, I'm on board. I promise. 

[Wit]

Zach looked like crap against Payton, will probably look terrible against the bucs and bills too. This isn’t hard to predict. Just hope he can figure things out going into next year. If he can’t we will know. The good news is we have some players in offense now, and Hopefully will draft some on defense and at TE/Center to really turn this around. If the QB sucks we can draft or trade for another one when the time comes. 

[y2k8]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

A simple “my bad, I misspoke” would’ve garnered a lot more respect.

I didn't misspeak. The Eagles signed him a FA.

 

[y2k8]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

"Now change the argument so I can be right"

Again - this is your argument. Not mine. I have no issue building the team first. None. I go back and forth on that. If you want to tell me the Jets should use all of their draft picks and FA money to build up the team up in 2021-2022 and draft a QB in 2023, I'm on board. I promise. 

I'm not changing the argument:

This is what you are disagreeing with

It's a lot easier to sign a Vinny Testaverde than it is to draft a Patrick Mahomes.

You have yet to prove otherwise. Feel free to keep trying.

[Hal N of Provo]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

Reality does have a way of soiling magical thinking. 

Zach will be fine. 

[jgb]

17 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

I didn't misspeak. The Eagles signed him a FA.

 

“In the last decade we have seen the Buccaneers, Eagles, Broncos and Saints win SuperBowls with a QB another team drafted, so I reject your hypothesis.”

? 

[slimjasi]

15 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

 

It's a lot easier to sign a Vinny Testaverde than it is to draft a Patrick Mahomes.

No . . . it isn't. 

What I'm saying is that the successful organizations in the NFL, by in large, draft and develop their own QBs. 

Feel free to keep missing the point

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Zach will be fine. 

Name your terms and stakes, Helen.

[slimjasi]

20 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

I didn't misspeak. The Eagles signed him a FA.

 

They also drafted him and he had a pro bowl season with them before they let him go the first time. 

[jgb]

Just now, slimjasi said:

They also drafted him and he had a pro bowl season with them before they let him go the first time. 

This is an awesome litmus test. If he can’t even own a minor mistake, an easy ignore.

[Hal N of Provo]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Name your terms and stakes, Helen.

Obviously we won’t agree later, so it needs to be something concrete.  
 

Jets pick up the 4th year option? 

[FidelioJet]

Positive of Zach busting (I still don't think he will)

But let's say he does...The good thing is....

1) It'll be two years when we cut bait

2) We'll have built roster and be more of a young - veteran roster...(not rookies, not guys over 30)

3) We'll draft another QB

4) We'll finally be FORCED to do it right and bring in a young QB with a veteran team that won't be put into the situation we put both Zach and Sam in..(not saying Sam or Zach would be great with a vet team) but giving the kid the best chance possible.

5) We'll likely have a vet QB in house - meaning someone that can start the season while the rookie learns.

Since we're looking at positives....

[jgb]

Just now, Hal N of Provo said:

Obviously we won’t agree later, so it needs to be something concrete.  
 

Jets pick up the 4th year option? 

That would be 5th year option and you’re on. Signature bet? One season where the loser has to bear the winner’s chosen signature. This includes all your alts FYI.

[Green Ghost]

1 hour ago, rex-n-effect said:

Pour them all out and who wants to give up a successful coordinator position for a head coach role over a lousy roster when you might not last one season? Who wants to be a first round QB to come to a team where you might get cut or traded after one year with a lousy head coach?

Seasons always start at 0-0 but teams don't get to hit reset every year and make new decisions without any effect from their prior decisions. NYJ is already an undesirable destination for coaches and players. Making it more undesirable isn't going to help. No winning coach is coming here just for the challenge of trying to turn around an entire organization with potentially only a year to make it happen. 

#1 we don’t hire winning coaches… ever. And really who else does either? How many Andy Reid’s become available? Teams hire the “hot” coordinator and 8/10 end up washing out anyway.

#2 This idea that “nobody will ever come here” is nonsense. How it became a thing I’ll never know.

First, these guys have huge egos. They all think they’ll be the guy who turns things around.(if they don’t they’re not getting past a first interview)

Second, no matter how bad the team (see Browns) and how often they fire HCs or GMs there will always be a long line of people wanting one of 2-4 openings.

#3  Let’s say there is a “hot” coordinator who doesn’t want to interview for the position. We move on to our next man up. To me that’s a lot better than wasting two more years with someone we know isn’t the guy. I’d rather go through two misses in 3 years than watch one loser screw things up simply to look competent in the eyes of some DC who’s actually dying for a chance.

[y2k8]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

“In the last decade we have seen the Buccaneers, Eagles, Broncos and Saints win SuperBowls with a QB another team drafted, so I reject your hypothesis.”

? 

Yes, I know. You are *technically* correct yet still does nothing to effectively counter my argument. 

[jgb]

Just now, y2k8 said:

Yes, I know. You are *technically* correct yet still does nothing to effectively counter my argument. 

Then why did you make the (factually incorrect) point at all if you didn’t think it helped your argument? 

 

[y2k8]

10 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

No . . . it isn't. 

What I'm saying is that the successful organizations in the NFL, by in large, draft and develop their own QBs. 

Feel free to keep missing the point

You engaged me directly on that point. All of my responses have been based upon it.

 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, y2k8 said:

You engaged me directly on that point. All of my responses have been based upon it.

 

Word. I'll leave this here. 

 

Have yourself a nice night. 

[y2k8]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Then why did you make the (factually incorrect) point at all if you didn’t think it helped your argument? 

 

Why are you pretending that Nick Foles was drafted and developed by the Eagles to be starting QB for the season he won them the SuperBowl? As if he wasn't just a guy they gave up on and resigned to be a veteran backup years later?

Carson Wentz didn't win that SuperBowl. But you knew that already.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

We are the most positive people on the site. We think most of the problems are due to one player and we are one piece away from a competitive offense. The “positive” ones blame: weaponz, OL, OC, coaching staff, owner, JD, and other fans (100+ people) all to protect 1 dude. 

Yup.  The defense is a mess but can be mostly fixed in 1 offseason.  The offense features the best supporting cast we've seen since 2015 (and unlike in 2015, they're young guys/rookies). 

We're a QB and a nice offseason away from fielding a competitive team.  The QB is the hard part to find but it can be done.  The front office and coaching staff just needs to be willing to cut their losses on Wilson next year if his struggles continue.

[Hal N of Provo]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

That would be 5th year option and you’re on. Signature bet? One season where the loser has to bear the winner’s chosen signature. This includes all your alts FYI.

Lol.  Yes.  This is my only active account though for real.  
 

If they renegotiate after the 3rd year because he is good is what I meant, but same deal.  
 

For how often we go back and forth a full season dog seams fair.  Only restriction is if a mod asks for adjustment.  

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

Why are you pretending that Nick Foles was drafted and developed by the Eagles to be starting QB for the season he won them the SuperBowl? As if he wasn't just a guy they gave up on and resigned to be a veteran backup years later?

Carson Wentz didn't win that SuperBowl. But you knew that already.

I can only respond to the terrible points you make. This isn’t baseball. You don’t get to keep swinging at pitches.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Lol.  Yes.  This is my only active account though for real.  
 

If they renegotiate after the 3rd year because he is good is what I meant, but same deal.  
 

For how often we go back and forth a full season dog seams fair.  Only restriction is if a mod asks for adjustment.  

Zach Wilson will neither get optioned or get a second contract with the Jets.

I won’t make you have a vulgar sig. but it’ll be extremely embarrassing for sure.

[Hal N of Provo]

17 minutes ago, jgb said:

Zach Wilson will neither get optioned or get a second contract with the Jets.

I won’t make you have a vulgar sig. but it’ll be extremely embarrassing for sure.

Lol.
 

Yours will horrify you but will also include the most positive upbeat sun-shiniest thing in history.   I’ve got some years to work on it.  

[Prodigal Syndicate]

3 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

SURPRISE!

The hope/cope thread is littered with the same handful of negative posters that ruin every thread on this site.  

The Jets could not be awful and maybe that would change things in the fan base? 

You seem more upset that people are being realistic about how bad things are then at how poor the team is.

Should we all just pretend things are awesome?

[Jetscode1]

43 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Positive of Zach busting (I still don't think he will)

But let's say he does...The good thing is....

1) It'll be two years when we cut bait

2) We'll have built roster and be more of a young - veteran roster...(not rookies, not guys over 30)

3) We'll draft another QB

4) We'll finally be FORCED to do it right and bring in a young QB with a veteran team that won't be put into the situation we put both Zach and Sam in..(not saying Sam or Zach would be great with a vet team) but giving the kid the best chance possible.

5) We'll likely have a vet QB in house - meaning someone that can start the season while the rookie learns.

Since we're looking at positives....

Reasonable analysis.  

[Jetscode1]

36 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yup.  The defense is a mess but can be mostly fixed in 1 offseason.  The offense features the best supporting cast we've seen since 2015 (and unlike in 2015, they're young guys/rookies). 

We're a QB and a nice offseason away from fielding a competitive team.  The QB is the hard part to find but it can be done.  The front office and coaching staff just needs to be willing to cut their losses on Wilson next year if his struggles continue.

The offense is the best since 2015, but it is far cry from even an average unit.  We need a major upgrades at TE, a center or RG, plus a WR besides Moore who can actually make plays on a consistent basis.  Oh, by the way, we have a QB who has provided more questions than answers at this stage of his rookie year.  The defense is a dumpster fire with needs at three levels.  I'm still a half full kind of crazy with this team/regime but we still have several serious needs.  I'm still hopeful fwiw but JD needs to maximize his draft capital and I've yet to see that from a Jets GM in a long time.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

The offense is the best since 2015, but it is far cry from even an average unit.  We need a major upgrades at TE, a center or RG, plus a WR besides Moore who can actually make plays on a consistent basis.  Oh, by the way, we have a QB who has provided more questions than answers at this stage of his rookie year.  The defense is a dumpster fire with needs at three levels.  I'm still a half full kind of crazy with this team/regime but we still have several serious needs.  I'm still hopeful fwiw but JD needs to maximize his draft capital and I've yet to see that from a Jets GM in a long time.

Fortunately, TE, RG and C aren't super difficult positions to address adequately.  And I'm not even certain we need a new C.  McGovern has been fine this year.  WR is of course tougher to fill but at least we know we have a player in Moore, meaning the WR room isn't barren like we've seen previously.

A lot of the problems with the roster are pretty fixable, and Douglas of course has a lot of capital/resources available to make that happen.