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Is it possible that JD will survive if Zach is a bust


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31 minutes ago, kmnj said:

lol people hyping up joes moves and joes drafts-joe's roster is terrible , joes record is terrible- his first draft was maybe one of the worst ever-this draft he drafted a bad qb to be the franchise QB- if a team has a avg or bad qb they then must lean on the defense =Joe's defense is one of the worst if not the worst in the league

and his 2nd draft might be the best in Jets history.

that defense isnt on JD. that on Saleh. if you havent notice we probably have about 6 wins by now with the same defense as last year.

we have to be careful with our judgement. we can recognize this last draft has 4 good players even though we won 3 games. if we get another 4 good players off next years draft and still have 3 wins thats on Saleh.

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Teams have been successful without stud, franchise QBs.  But that success is somewhat rare, fleeting and depends on having just about everything else correct.  Sanchez coupled with an excellent OLine, Ground and Pound, elite defense had the Jets at the SB doorstep for two years.... but he wasn't good enough to carry a team once it was reduced to average or below average talent.  Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon won Super Bowls with two of the best defenses of all time, etc.

The Jets HAVE TO eventually find themselves a Top 10 NFL quarterback, but if they don't have one then JD and Saleh have to get everything else working like the run game, defense and STs in order to be a playoff contender.  It's how the Patriots are winning this year with an average QB, it's how Denver is 7-6 (having the second fewest Points Against in the NFL), it's how the Colts have a winning record (Jonathan Taylor, great OLine, very good D, etc.)

Great QBs can sometimes carry bad teams for quite a while.  But if you have a perennially bad QB you can't carry him.  Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle for one season like the guys above, but it won't last.

JD has to get the QB right or, until he does, he has to get everything else right.

We also need to come to the realization that you don't need to tank to find a QB.  None of Sam Darnold (3rd), Mark Sanchez (5th), Zach Wilson (2nd) have proven to be better than Chad Pennington (18th) or Ken O'Brien (24th).  The league is littered with starting QBs like Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Derek Carr, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Mac Jones, etc. who you didn't need a Top 5, 10 or even 15 pick to get your hands on.

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41 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It certainly didn’t hurt from an optics perspective that Rosen was the 4th QB off the board in that draft.

The Jets took Wilson at # 2 when they reportedly could have traded down for a very enticing package of picks and still ended up taking Mac Jones, Fields, or perhaps even Wilson himself.

The draft capital spent on Wilson was enormous.  That wasn’t quite the case with the Rosen selection. 

Screw optics.  There isn't that big of a difference between #2 and #7.  The same could have been said about Arizona.  You can't move down when you don't have a QB.  You can't.  You have to roll the dice.  

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

So we are going down the Sam route? 

Zach gets 3 full seasons? I have to believe we know what we have after 2 seasons. Example, if in week 14 in 2022 Zach still cant throw the screen pass is anyone comfortable with that moving forward?? 

Sorry, I FULLY typed that wrong.  I am talking about JD.  You don't get rid of JD in 2023 if he has built a nice core of players, after 2020/21/22 draft.  BUT....he would have to find a QB in 2023.

As far as Wilson, I think they have to have a LONG, hard discussion if he is worth giving a second season.  At the VERY least, viable competition has to be brought in.  We have done this three other times; draft a QB and hand him the reigns without question.  IT DOESN'T WORK.

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1 minute ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

We all know they will be back next year.

And we all know people will make excuses next year why we are bad and swear it's a plan.

"The plan" is also job security.......when things go wrong you can just point to it. 

Much less pressure then a coach taking over a win now team. 

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25 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Teams have been successful without stud, franchise QBs.  But that success is somewhat rare, fleeting and depends on having just about everything else correct.  Sanchez coupled with an excellent OLine, Ground and Pound, elite defense had the Jets at the SB doorstep for two years.... but he wasn't good enough to carry a team once it was reduced to average or below average talent.  Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon won Super Bowls with two of the best defenses of all time, etc.

The Jets HAVE TO eventually find themselves a Top 10 NFL quarterback, but if they don't have one then JD and Saleh have to get everything else working like the run game, defense and STs in order to be a playoff contender.  It's how the Patriots are winning this year with an average QB, it's how Denver is 7-6 (having the second fewest Points Against in the NFL), it's how the Colts have a winning record (Jonathan Taylor, great OLine, very good D, etc.)

Great QBs can sometimes carry bad teams for quite a while.  But if you have a perennially bad QB you can't carry him.  Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle for one season like the guys above, but it won't last.

JD has to get the QB right or, until he does, he has to get everything else right.

We also need to come to the realization that you don't need to tank to find a QB.  None of Sam Darnold (3rd), Mark Sanchez (5th), Zach Wilson (2nd) have proven to be better than Chad Pennington (18th) or Ken O'Brien (24th).  The league is littered with starting QBs like Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Derek Carr, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Mac Jones, etc. who you didn't need a Top 5, 10 or even 15 pick to get your hands on.

The truth is that it's the exception to the rule that a team drafting in the top 5 comes away with a QB that turns the franchise around. It's the ultimate team sport and QB's are developed, not just drafted. The QB's who are drafted into better situations are typically the ones who end up developing into the best in the league.

If JD continues to draft like he did in 2021 and Zack isn't the guy - the next guy will have a much better chance at success.

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At the most important position, JD invested one year too many in Darnold and he drafted Wilson who looks far from a #2 pick in the draft, franchise type QB. Both he and Wilson get one more year to prove all the naysayers wrong, but he will be sent packing if Wilson craps the bed next season.  He hung his hat on Wilson, and he will have to go down with that ship.

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2 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

At the most important position, JD invested one year too many in Darnold and he drafted Wilson who looks far from a #2 pick in the draft, franchise type QB. Both he and Wilson get one more year to prove all the naysayers wrong, but he will be sent packing if Wilson craps the bed next season.  He hung his hat on Wilson, and he will have to go down with that ship.

So if JD drafts 4-5 starters including 1-2 studs next year you're firing him if Wilson isn't the guy? Do you realize how crazy that sounds?

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2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

So if JD drafts 4-5 starters including 1-2 studs next year you're firing him if Wilson isn't the guy? Do you realize how crazy that sounds?

Let's see him do that and we'll talk. The Jets were a 4 win team going nowhere when he took over and they are a 3 win team going nowhere 2-1/2 seasons later.  And by the way, when you're handed lottery draft picks every year, you BETTER be drafting studs.  

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10 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Let's see him do that and we'll talk. The Jets were a 4 win team going nowhere when he took over and they are a 3 win team going nowhere 2-1/2 seasons later.  And by the way, when you're handed lottery draft picks every year, you BETTER be drafting studs.  

That would basically be replicating what he did this year, no?

I don't know what you mean by lottery draft picks. 

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

Ummmm and who's fault is that?? 

Point isnt to whine that they dont have talent or to blame anyone, theyre in a total rebuild and whoever came in here was going to lose.  Like it or not, agree or not, thats what theyre all in bed with and agreeing thats the right way to handle the mess Macc left behind

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12 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Let's see him do that and we'll talk. The Jets were a 4 win team going nowhere when he took over and they are a 3 win team going nowhere 2-1/2 seasons later.  And by the way, when you're handed lottery draft picks every year, you BETTER be drafting studs.  

One, theyre a 3 win team in a season that isnt over yet.  Secondly theyre a 3 win team as of today with the youngest roster in the NFL, with the most 1st and 2nd year players in the NFL, with a rookie QB leading the way, which wasnt the case with the Jets led by Darnold a year ago.   With a pretty nice draft class playing lots of minutes today

At least theres a chance of development with these players vs what Macc left behind.  

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27 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Point isnt to whine that they dont have talent or to blame anyone, theyre in a total rebuild and whoever came in here was going to lose.  Like it or not, agree or not, thats what theyre all in bed with and agreeing thats the right way to handle the mess Macc left behind

JD has been in the building since May prior to the 2019 season.....

He has his hands all over this roster, coaching staff, and FO. 

Mac is gone....been gone. 

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After next year there's really no excuses left.  With 4 picks in the top 40 and 2 in the top 10, the most cap space in the league there should be young playmakers all over the field and it should be easy to see what direction the franchise is headed regardless if Wilson busts or not.  This idea the team gets another year to look like an expansion team is delusional.

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3 minutes ago, undertow said:

After next year there's really no excuses left.  With 4 picks in the top 40 and 2 in the top 10, the most cap space in the league there should be young playmakers all over the field and it should be easy to see what direction the franchise is headed regardless if Wilson busts or not.  This idea the team gets another year to look like an expansion team is delusional.

I don't really get this answer. The question was specific to Zack Wilson busting, not the team looking like an expansion team. If they add a bunch of talent and the team looks good/heading the right direction outside of Zack Wilson seems to be a reasonable path to JD staying on board w/bust Zack Wilson, no?

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

JD has been in the building since May prior to the 2019 season.....

He has his hands all over this roster, coaching staff, and FO. 

Mac is gone....been gone. 

We're not going back to this nonsense are we?  

He missed FA and the draft in 2019.  

Thats what you took away from a perfectly reasonable post.  The only comment was what Macc left him, I dont need to be told hes gone and nothing I wrote would lead anyone to think I need to be told

Compound it by being a jag and neg repping the explanation Karen

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Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

I don't really get this answer. The question was specific to Zack Wilson busting, not the team looking like an expansion team. If they add a bunch of talent and the team looks good/heading the right direction outside of Zack Wilson seems to be a reasonable path to JD staying on board w/bust Zack Wilson, no?

If Douglas drafts say three players that jump off the screen, Saleh turns into a solid coach, and the team looks like they are full of young talent I think he can survive Wilson busting.  I think it will be obvious to sane people whether or not Douglas is a good GM by the end of next year regardless if Wilson craps out. 

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7 minutes ago, genot said:

I said yesterday that the Jet's need to take a major step forward in the win-loss column, or everybody will lose their job. Douglas will bring in someone that he thinks can be an effective game manager or more. His job is on the line.

I hope he does. You'd think self-preservation is starting to kick in for him...

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If JDs next draft is as good as his past draft he definitely stays. He will need to bring in a QB though to either push Zach to get better quick or to trade him and try and salvage some draft picks. What I would suggest is he inquire about Jimmy Garropolo. See what the asking price is or he might even get cut to make room for Trey Lance. Garropolo may not be a hall of famer but he is a winning QB    ( don’t know his exact record off hand but I am pretty sure he is about 15 -20 games over 500) who has lead a team to the Super Bowl 

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2 minutes ago, CSNY said:

If JDs next draft is as good as his past draft he definitely stays. He will need to bring in a QB though and what I would suggest is he inquire about Jimmy Garropolo. See what the asking price is or he might even get cut to make room for Trey Lance. Garropolo may not be a hall of famer but he is a winning QB    ( don’t know his exact record off hand but I am pretty sure he is about 15 -20 games over 500) who has lead a team to the Super Bowl 

Garropolo would make a lot of sense.

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7 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

We also need to come to the realization that you don't need to tank to find a QB.

Right. It seems like we keep swinging for the fences, and well missing. 

Sometimes a good contact hitter can bring alot of runs in. 

Everyone love an Aaron Rodgers, but how many years are we going to give up searching for one.

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Woody isn't firing Douglas anytime soon. Douglas was a hot commodity when he was hired and sold the Johnson's on a long rebuild. They ate that sh*t up and gave him a long, massive contract. Dude is going nowhere. He got the franchise a ton of draft capital and cap space and he is going to get a chance to use it. 

Douglas is here a minimum of 2-3 more years unless there is some sort of scandal.

You people who hate Douglas should buckle up 

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