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Is it possible that JD will survive if Zach is a bust


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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Woody isn't firing Douglas anytime soon. Douglas was a hot commodity when he was hired and sold the Johnson's on a long rebuild. They ate that sh*t up and gave him a long, massive contract. Dude is going nowhere. He got the franchise a ton of draft capital and cap space and he is going to get a chance to use it. 

Douglas is here a minimum of 2-3 more years unless there is some sort of scandal.

You people who hate Douglas should buckle up 

Agree 100% I don’t think it’s the end of the world, either. I’m not happy with him so far, but I’m willing to give him 2-3 more years.

My one concern is I think Wilson is a bust, but that’s okay. I don’t blame Douglas. He took a shot, and missed. It happens.

The problem is, this kid is Hackenberg-bad. We can’t run this kid out there next year. If Douglas does that, then he loses me.
Bring in a Minshew Trubisky or Garropollo, or draft either Corral or Pickett.
Just get rid of Wilson. I don’t want him in camp. I don’t want him fighting for a spot. Get him outta here. 

Trade him to Pittsburgh, make him their project.

 

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10 hours ago, Wit said:

Given that the rest of last years draft was pretty decent, if he has another decent draft but Zach isn’t good, can he retain his job?

I would think he can the QB position is the hardest to evaluate its really a crap shoot and the league always tends to over value QB's . I believe they undervalue them as well

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7 hours ago, CSNY said:

If JDs next draft is as good as his past draft he definitely stays. He will need to bring in a QB though to either push Zach to get better quick or to trade him and try and salvage some draft picks. What I would suggest is he inquire about Jimmy Garropolo. See what the asking price is or he might even get cut to make room for Trey Lance. Garropolo may not be a hall of famer but he is a winning QB    ( don’t know his exact record off hand but I am pretty sure he is about 15 -20 games over 500) who has lead a team to the Super Bowl 

But wait you're talking to Jets fans here doesn't every QB that's not top five suck ass ?

 

7 hours ago, rangerous said:

douglas will be gm through at least 2023.  he's putting together a stout run game and that will help wilson and if not him then some other guy.  get a wr and te to go along with the oline and this offense will be easy to run.

This year is Wilson's Mulligan if he comes out the first 2-3 games next year and sucks he better be pulled.

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36 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Agree 100% I don’t think it’s the end of the world, either. I’m not happy with him so far, but I’m willing to give him 2-3 more years.

My one concern is I think Wilson is a bust, but that’s okay. I don’t blame Douglas. He took a shot, and missed. It happens.

The problem is, this kid is Hackenberg-bad. We can’t run this kid out there next year. If Douglas does that, then he loses me.
Bring in a Minshew Trubisky or Garropollo, or draft either Corral or Pickett.
Just get rid of Wilson. I don’t want him in camp. I don’t want him fighting for a spot. Get him outta here. 

Trade him to Pittsburgh, make him their project.

 

If it's so obvious that Wilson is hopeless after 8 full games, why would a smart organization like the Steelers want him? 

Douglas isn't perfect, but his basic plan makes sense to me. Stockpile draft picks, don't overpay medium talent in free agency, draft a young core and try to develop them together.  I think he needs to get more active in free agency this year, but what he has at least tried to do so far has made sense to me. And I think he added some really nice young pieces in this last draft. 

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24 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Just get rid of Wilson. I don’t want him in camp. I don’t want him fighting for a spot. Get him outta here. 

Why would you ever pick a QB at #2 overall if you aren't even willing to give him an offseason to improve? 

That seems insane to me. 

 

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31 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

If it's so obvious that Wilson is hopeless after 8 full games, why would a smart organization like the Steelers want him? 

Douglas isn't perfect, but his basic plan makes sense to me. Stockpile draft picks, don't overpay medium talent in free agency, draft a young core and try to develop them together.  I think he needs to get more active in free agency this year, but what he has at least tried to do so far has made sense to me. And I think he added some really nice young pieces in this last draft. 

The Steeler thing was a joke. 🙄

I agree with you on Douglas.

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3 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Because he is so bad he can’t complete a screen pass?

yips = nerves = scared

"can't complete" or "has missed numerous" - which seems more accurate? 

He definitely has a mental block going on. Probably rushing and not really seeing the throw. But the dude is a rookie. We should just assume he can't improve over the offseason? 

You just spent the number 2 overall pick on him. If you aren't going to give him the chance to improve after 8 games, why did you invest so much draft capital on him? Don't you want to try to develop the guy you just told the world was the second best player in the draft less than a year ago? Should the Jags trade Lawrence? Or maybe show a little conviction and try to develop the QB that was "generational" 5 months ago?  I don't see what the insane rush is to move onto the next guy. He just got here. 

No issue bringing in competition. That's a different discussion. It can be argued that would get the best out of Wilson, and if not, at least the Jets are watchable. I'm all in for a legit competition with a veteran.

But regardless of your fantasy, Wilson will be in camp next year

10 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Mulligan? Seriously?

He's a rookie QB - Only on the internet is Zach Wilson's career already over. 

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16 hours ago, kmnj said:

he will be around next year 100% woody and co hate paying guys that dont work for them anymore as will the terrible coaching staff he brought in

Joe's first draft was maybe one of the jets worst ever by who is still here and actual performance on the field

I believe Wilson is  bust  as well-he will end up (my opinion) worse then Geno at a higher  pick

 

Correct on all counts.

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6 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

Mulligan? Seriously?

I didn't mean that literally but as bad as he's played you can consider it something like that. I know he's a rookie but I have not even seen rookies play this bad nor have this long a leash. He will be on the clock next year my guess is if he sh*ts the bed similar to what he's doing this year in the first 3 or 4 games next year he's going to get yanked. He's played the worst of every rookie in this years class for sure and none of them have really been good at all.

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1 hour ago, Cut Jet Penalty Makers said:

Correct on all counts.

Every NFL owner feels this way not just Woody . If in fact Woody wants to keep players around that suck because he paid them money as a draft pick then that's a problem. I understand we're talking rookies here but this particular Rookie is historically bad and while I do think he should play next year there are two things that need to happen.

1. He needs to legitimately beat out every QB on the Roster Including Mike White (personally I don't thin he can but that's just my thoughts ) 

2. He needs to be yanked Quickly is he continues to suck.

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16 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

At the most important position, JD invested one year too many in Darnold and he drafted Wilson who looks far from a #2 pick in the draft, franchise type QB. Both he and Wilson get one more year to prove all the naysayers wrong, but he will be sent packing if Wilson craps the bed next season.  He hung his hat on Wilson, and he will have to go down with that ship.

Nonsense...

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7 hours ago, slimjasi said:

If it's so obvious that Wilson is hopeless after 8 full games, why would a smart organization like the Steelers want him? 

 

Well because the Jets have been totally incompetent when it comes to the QB position. Could be the Jets fault (doubt that) or it could also be that the players we bring in here totally suck and nothing is going to help them. 

Part of QB evaluations is knowing when they should start or when there ready to start and part of it is knowing when its too much for them and right now the NFL is way too much for Zach Wilson yet we keep trotting his ass out there to be humiliated. 

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6 hours ago, slimjasi said:

"can't complete" or "has missed numerous" - which seems more accurate? 

He definitely has a mental block going on. Probably rushing and not really seeing the throw. But the dude is a rookie. We should just assume he can't improve over the offseason? 

You just spent the number 2 overall pick on him. If you aren't going to give him the chance to improve after 8 games, why did you invest so much draft capital on him? Don't you want to try to develop the guy you just told the world was the second best player in the draft less than a year ago? Should the Jags trade Lawrence? Or maybe show a little conviction and try to develop the QB that was "generational" 5 months ago?  I don't see what the insane rush is to move onto the next guy. He just got here. 

No issue bringing in competition. That's a different discussion. It can be argued that would get the best out of Wilson, and if not, at least the Jets are watchable. I'm all in for a legit competition with a veteran.

But regardless of your fantasy, Wilson will be in camp next year

He's a rookie QB - Only on the internet is Zach Wilson's career already over. 

If Wilson needs anything at this point its a Psychologist because rookies should be thriving in the short passing game its there only real outlet if the game is just too much for them. I have never seen a QB play this bad in the short passing game its so bad its laughable. No one is going to teach this kid how to throw a 5 or 10 yard pass so its either truly mental or he's Christian Hackenberg

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JD will get until the end of 2023 and should get that... There are no GM's past or present that hit 100% of their picks. It will be telling this offseason, what he does at the QB position and if he goes after a VET that will actually challenge Wilson for playing time. If he does as good a job in the 2022 darft as he did with the 21 draft, then this team is looking a lot better. In my opinion he can't go with just Wilson and White, he needs to bring in a 5-8 year VET that has played, not just sat on the bench.

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18 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

It doesn't have to go down like that.  It didn't in Arizona.

BUT, it would be ballsier.  Do we walk away from Zach, or is there too much talent and desire there?  Maybe it was easy for Steve Keim to walk away.  Maybe Josh Rosen was just a waste of a pick, it was glaringly obvious, and he did what he had to do. But it still took balls to then draft Murray.  Well, that worked out okay.

IF the team has a lot of good talent around him going into 2023, you don't get rid of him.  He is doing his job.  But the modern day NFL doesn't matter if you bring in HOF at multiple positions.  If you don't get the QB right, it won't matter.

You left out where they hired Steve Wilks the same year they drafted Rosen.  The owner fell in love with Wilks because of his charismatic leadership qualities.  Before moving on from Rosen they fired the 1 year HC and hired a College Coach who was a big part of the decision to move on from Rosen and Draft Murray.  Kiem didn't trade Rosen until after they actually drafted Murray.   They hired Kingsbury to have major impact on making the move on Rosen and drafting Murray.  It wasn't done in a vacuum.  (Personally I don't think Murray is the answer but that's a different argument)

Kiem unlike Douglas had already built a SB contending team in AZ and was GM of the year.   Douglas doesn't have Kiem's resume.

I wouldn't let Douglas and Saleh draft another QB after slobering over Zach if Zach washes out.  

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18 hours ago, JiFapono said:

You have to imagine that JD's biggest regret right now is handing over the franchise to Zach Wilson.  I have to imagine he's learned his lesson and his #1 priority this offseason is bringing in a starter level QB who can rightfully compete in camp for the starting job.  There is absolutely no way in hell you go into next season with Zach as the unrivalled starter.  If that happens and Zach hasnt made an entire 180, JD will lose his job accordingly when the entire regime is flipped over, again.

It's just ******* wild that JD finally got his eyes on Zach Wilson and was like yep, this is the guy I'm trying my career too.  ******* mind-boggling. 

100% this^ How the hell they saw this kid and said,” hell yeah, ride or die baby!” Is the most baffling and reckless thing I may ever seen a NFL franchise do. Toss in the newness of so many other factors and it’s madness!

This may sound mean but we are lucky the kid got dinged up and missed a few games. If he didn’t? Holy hell, we would be flying planes and putting up billboards for LaFleur’s head likely for awhile now. 
 

I wonder if they did the smart thing and had a vet to start if that may have somehow helped the defense along? It’s a weird question but the defense verses Zach is a chicken or the egg thing for me. Likely defense would have sucked no matter what we did on offense compounded by the key injuries on defense. 

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8 hours ago, slimjasi said:

If it's so obvious that Wilson is hopeless after 8 full games, why would a smart organization like the Steelers want him? 

Douglas isn't perfect, but his basic plan makes sense to me. Stockpile draft picks, don't overpay medium talent in free agency, draft a young core and try to develop them together.  I think he needs to get more active in free agency this year, but what he has at least tried to do so far has made sense to me. And I think he added some really nice young pieces in this last draft. 

That's the basic plan of the entire NFL.  That's how the draft is designed and FA is designed.  The basic plan is monkey proof.  

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16 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

100% this^ How the hell they saw this kid and said,” hell yeah, ride or die baby!” Is the most baffling and reckless thing I may ever seen a NFL franchise do. Toss in the newness of so many other factors and it’s madness!

This may sound mean but we are lucky the kid got dinged up and missed a few games. If he didn’t? Holy hell, we would be flying planes and putting up billboards for LaFleur’s head likely for awhile now. 
 

I wonder if they did the smart thing and had a vet to start if that may have somehow helped the defense along? It’s a weird question but the defense verses Zach is a chicken or the egg thing for me. Likely defense would have sucked no matter what we did on offense compounded by the key injuries on defense. 

No doubt, mind boggling.  I have my opinions, share my takes but I certainly dont have a crystal ball but that all I kept saying to myself during the process is, I cant believe these guys are going to place their careers in this kids hands.  Wild.

Anywho, once Lawson went down, I knew this D had a chance to be historically bad but to your point, they're 100% impacted by Zach inability.  They know they have no chance, we are you going to go out there and risk life and limb for a terrible team, with no chance to win and your Head Coach is literally telling you winning doesnt matter.  Why try at all, honestly? 

 

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31 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

No doubt, mind boggling.  I have my opinions, share my takes but I certainly dont have a crystal ball but that all I kept saying to myself during the process is, I cant believe these guys are going to place their careers in this kids hands.  Wild.

Anywho, once Lawson went down, I knew this D had a chance to be historically bad but to your point, they're 100% impacted by Zach inability.  They know they have no chance, we are you going to go out there and risk life and limb for a terrible team, with no chance to win and your Head Coach is literally telling you winning doesnt matter.  Why try at all, honestly? 

 

Yeah, I didn’t want to say it. Being the holiday season and all. But did notice they played a very good one during Mike White’s debut. The whole team did. 

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42 minutes ago, Biggs said:

You left out where they hired Steve Wilks the same year they drafted Rosen.  The owner fell in love with Wilks because of his charismatic leadership qualities.  Before moving on from Rosen they fired the 1 year HC and hired a College Coach who was a big part of the decision to move on from Rosen and Draft Murray.  Kiem didn't trade Rosen until after they actually drafted Murray.   They hired Kingsbury to have major impact on making the move on Rosen and drafting Murray.  It wasn't done in a vacuum.  (Personally I don't think Murray is the answer but that's a different argument)

Kiem unlike Douglas had already built a SB contending team in AZ and was GM of the year.   Douglas doesn't have Kiem's resume.

I wouldn't let Douglas and Saleh draft another QB after slobering over Zach if Zach washes out.  

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43 minutes ago, Biggs said:

That's the basic plan of the entire NFL.  That's how the draft is designed and FA is designed.  The basic plan is monkey proof.  

Right, but the last Jets GM who even tried it was Idzik and he got run out of town after the worst draft in human history 

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Right, but the last Jets GM who even tried it was Idzik and he got run out of town after the worst draft in human history 

Ryan Leaf at 2 doesn't exactly say Douglas can draft.  The Jets had more options than keeping Sam or drafting Zach.  They could have traded Sam and out of the first pick and drafted Mills late 1 or early 2.   That would have given the team a haul of draft picks and a QB with as much up side as Zach who actually played for a major college football team. 

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19 hours ago, Wit said:

Given that the rest of last years draft was pretty decent, if he has another decent draft but Zach isn’t good, can he retain his job?

If I were JD, I'd be looking into Jimmy G as a backup if he is cut.

1) Pushes Zach

2) Allows him to continue drafting to support either QB

3) If JD has a successful hit rate in his next 2 drafts then I think he can survive Zach flopping

 

I'm sure a lot of people would want him to get canned but I think it would be a mistake. I think he's shown success in trades, waiver claims, and UDFAs. I think his drafts have been about league average (2020 doesn't look great but I'm not sure that is from a lack of talent)

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6 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Ryan Leaf at 2 doesn't exactly say Douglas can draft.  The Jets had more options than keeping Sam or drafting Zach.  They could have traded Sam and out of the first pick and drafted Mills late 1 or early 2.   That would have given the team a haul of draft picks and a QB with as much up side as Zach who actually played for a major college football team. 

Douglas would have been crucified by the fans and media if he passed up on Wilson, Fields, Lance and Jones for Mills. Sure it is was an option but not remotely a realistic one. I'm struggling to find any sort of comparable situation in NFL history.

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8 hours ago, slimjasi said:

"can't complete" or "has missed numerous" - which seems more accurate? 

He definitely has a mental block going on. Probably rushing and not really seeing the throw. But the dude is a rookie. We should just assume he can't improve over the offseason? 

You just spent the number 2 overall pick on him. If you aren't going to give him the chance to improve after 8 games, why did you invest so much draft capital on him? Don't you want to try to develop the guy you just told the world was the second best player in the draft less than a year ago? Should the Jags trade Lawrence? Or maybe show a little conviction and try to develop the QB that was "generational" 5 months ago?  I don't see what the insane rush is to move onto the next guy. He just got here. 

No issue bringing in competition. That's a different discussion. It can be argued that would get the best out of Wilson, and if not, at least the Jets are watchable. I'm all in for a legit competition with a veteran.

But regardless of your fantasy, Wilson will be in camp next year

He's a rookie QB - Only on the internet is Zach Wilson's career already over. 

Why should we assume the Jets coaching staff can develop him?  They went all in on him and handed him the job when he wasn't ready.  They sold us on he needed all the reps to develop.

I wouldn't dump either WIlson or Lawrence.  I would dump both Saleh and Meyer and not give them another chance at developing them.  

I probably wouldn't let Rhule sign another QB to a long term deal either.  

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2 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Douglas would have been crucified by the fans and media if he passed up on Wilson, Fields, Lance and Jones for Mills. Sure it is was an option but not remotely a realistic one. I'm struggling to find any sort of comparable situation in NFL history.

I think if he came away with Pitts, Slater, AVT, Mills and Moore and we had a competent veteran playing from day 1 Jet fans would be holding a parade for Douglas. 

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7 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I think if he came away with Pitts, Slater, AVT, Mills and Moore and we had a competent veteran playing from day 1 Jet fans would be holding a parade for Douglas. 

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying it would be an incredibly unlikely thing to have happen. I'm not aware of any team that needed a QB that traded out of a prime slot to select their QB only to take the 5th or 6th ranked QB.

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5 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying it would be an incredibly unlikely thing to have happen. I'm not aware of any team that needed a QB that traded out of a prime slot to select their QB only to take the 5th or 6th ranked QB.

I believe our division rival, the Dolphins did that this year with SF.   

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