Re-visiting Robbie Anderson

[Scott Dierking]

25 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

It was a two year deal with only $20 million guaranteed. That's nothing.

My opinion is that based upon the evidence of what Joe Douglas has shown us, he never really went hard after Robbie Anderson. 

Douglas likes high character guys that bust it on the practice field and in games. Witness:

-How they have treated Mims based on practice habits and numbskull plays

-How they have been rough on Becton for him to be better.

-The propensity to draft high character, team captain types.

Robbie had too much baggage to be a Douglas guy. Regardless the money. And frankly, RA is not worth it. he is not a game changer.

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Last year, same team, DJ Moore had 18.1 YPR 

And he only had 4 TD's.  So, not sure what to make of this info.  Does that mean that Robby suddenly cant go long or does that mean that Teddy B. is actually a gun slinger?  Or maybe it just means that Robby was moving the chains and DJ Moore was stretching the field, which is kind of how you want it, no?  

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

And he only had 4 TD's.  So, not sure what to make of this info.  Does that mean that Robby suddenly cant go long or does that mean that Teddy B. is actually a gun slinger?  Or maybe it just means that Robby was moving the chains and DJ Moore was stretching the field, which is kind of how you want it, no?  

I can get a "move the chains" guy cheaper, and in different avenues than extending him.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Robby Anderson seems like an odd rhetorical hill to die on, I got to say.

I'm not dying on a hill. I'm pushing back on someone doing a misguided victory lap that it was a good idea to let him walk because I don't think it was.

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Even if you're right, so what at this point? 

It's not like Zach Wilson would have provided him "consistent" QB play, especially deep and especially with accuracy.  And with the WR's we've drafted and signed, he's be the #4 or $5 on this roster, like it or not.  Davis, Cole, Crowder, Moore all would be playing ahead of him in regular-down work.

So what point are you making, that we should have kept him?  He wasn't a difference maker here.  He wanted #1 WR money.  So when we didn't give it to him, he choose to walk, and failed to get #1 money elsewhere. 

Such is life sometimes. 

I'm responding to a post made on the topic of Robby Anderson. Not really sure why you're focusing on me rather than the OP or anyone else here -- it's a discussion on a former player and the idea if it was a good idea to let him walk or if we should have re-signed him for what he got paid.

I've always maintained it was a mistake to let him walk and try to replace him with Breshad Perriman. Joe Douglas has admitted as much.

I agree it doesn't matter now because we've overhauled the WR room -- we paid Corey Davis (because we needed to) and spent another premium pick on Elijah Moore. And obviously he's a bad fit for this offense.

But I'm not the one that brought this up and tried to do a victory lap. I'm just responding to the thread.

[#27TheDominator]

20 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

Crowder managed to be consistent despite 2 years with Sam and back ups.

Different type of receiver, but he was productive week in and week out in 2019 and 2020.

Crowder and Anderson were on the same team.  Crowder got 50 more yards and one more TD on 25 more targets.  Crowder basically go the same money that the Panthers gave Anderson.  I don't see how Crowder's performance is any indictment of Anderson.  If anything, I see it as confirmation. 

[UntouchableCrew]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

My opinion is that based upon the evidence of what Joe Douglas has shown us, he never really went hard after Robbie Anderson. 

Douglas likes high character guys that bust it on the practice field and in games. Witness:

-How they have treated Mims based on practice habits and numbskull plays

-How they have been rough on Becton for him to be better.

-The propensity to draft high character, team captain types.

Robbie had too much baggage to be a Douglas guy. 

I mean, yeah, this is all true. Douglas then turned around and admitted it was a mistake during the 2020 season when he failed to adequately replace him.

I cry no tears for Robby, we've turned the page. He's clearly a terrible fit for this offense anyway. But he's the best playmaker this offense has had since 2015 (sad, I know) and letting him walk for nothing was a mistake by JD, IMHO.

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm not dying on a hill. I'm pushing back on someone doing a misguided victory lap that it was a good idea to let him walk because I don't think it was.

I'm responding to a post made on the topic of Robby Anderson. Not really sure why you're focusing on me rather than the OP or anyone else here -- it's a discussion on a former player and the idea if it was a good idea to let him walk or if we should have re-signed him for what he got paid.

I've always maintained it was a mistake to let him walk and try to replace him with Breshad Perriman. Joe Douglas has admitted as much.

I agree it doesn't matter now because we've overhauled the WR room -- we paid Corey Davis (because we needed to) and spent another premium pick on Elijah Moore. And obviously he's a bad fit for this offense.

But I'm not the one that brought this up and tried to do a victory lap. I'm just responding to the thread.

In public, Douglas says it was a "mistake". Everything else he has done with personnel, says he wanted no part of Robby.

[UntouchableCrew]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

In public, Douglas says it was a "mistake". Everything else he has done with personnel, says he wanted no part of Robby.

You're right, NFL execs often publicly admit mistakes when they really believe they were right all along.

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I can get a "move the chains" guy cheaper, and in different avenues than extending him.

Come'on dude.... Robby is a 4.3 guy; he can clearly still do more than just be a possession receiver.  You watched him catch a 70-yard bomb in week 1 vs. your favorite team.  Clearly QB play is hurting his performance.  Not going to argue this with you anymore, this is just silly. 

You can celebrate JD not signing him all you want but the rest of this is just nonsense.

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Crowder and Anderson were on the same team.  Crowder got 50 more yards and one more TD on 25 more targets.  Crowder basically go the same money that the Panthers gave Anderson.  I don't see how Crowder's performance is any indictment of Anderson.  If anything, I see it as confirmation. 

Crowder had to restructure down to $9.75m average ($5m this year).

Robbie has a $14.75m annual contract for 3 years.

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Come'on dude.... Robby is a 4.3 guy; he can clearly still do more than just be a possession receiver.  You watched him catch a 70-yard bomb in week 1 vs. your favorite team.  Clearly QB play is hurting his performance.  Not going to argue this with you anymore, this is just silly. 

You can celebrate JD not signing him all you want but the rest of this is just nonsense.

Odd that the numbers don't indicate that any more. You are, what the numbers say you are. 4.3 be damned

[Biggs]

Robbie blows but Douglas basically signed Perriman and drafted Mims to replace him.  As much as Robbie blows relative to high quality NFL WR he's a HOF WR compared to Perriman and Mims.  

[undertow]

Did anyone really love Robbie Anderson or did people just think it was a bad idea to let a player go that our 2nd year QB had a repore with and replace him with nobody?

[Scott Dierking]

11 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

You're right, NFL execs often publicly admit mistakes when they really believe they were right all along.

There is no value in the NFL player circles in which you live, to publicly dismiss any one.

What are the attributes and character that make you get hard on Robbie?

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm not dying on a hill. I'm pushing back on someone doing a misguided victory lap that it was a good idea to let him walk because I don't think it was.

I'm responding to a post made on the topic of Robby Anderson. Not really sure why you're focusing on me rather than the OP or anyone else here -- it's a discussion on a former player and the idea if it was a good idea to let him walk or if we should have re-signed him for what he got paid.

I've always maintained it was a mistake to let him walk and try to replace him with Breshad Perriman. Joe Douglas has admitted as much.

I agree it doesn't matter now because we've overhauled the WR room -- we paid Corey Davis (because we needed to) and spent another premium pick on Elijah Moore. And obviously he's a bad fit for this offense.

But I'm not the one that brought this up and tried to do a victory lap. I'm just responding to the thread.

And I'm just responding to the thread too, i.e. your posts in it. 

I'm responding to you because you've expressed an interesting viewpoint I don't agree with.  That we should have kept Anderson (which means by definition overpaying Anderson).

So what have we lost these past two years without Anderson exactly?  Are we better last year (I'd say no).  Would we be better now (I'd say no).  Does Darnold survive/thrive with Anderson?  Does Wilson not suck this year?

Help me understand why you still feel this strongly now over this move.  You really think Anderson vs. Perriman, here, last year, makes any meaningful difference?  

We all say it all the time here, what matters is competing for playoffs/titles.  No mediocrity can be tolerated (hence all the anti-Cousins viewpoints, for example).

How does Anderson walking matter in that prism of competing for titles?  

[Viermoo]

You can be the beat receiver in the world and no one will ever know unless the QB is great!


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Trotter]

10 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Robbie blows but Douglas basically signed Perriman and drafted Mims to replace him.  As much as Robbie blows relative to high quality NFL WR he's a HOF WR compared to Perriman and Mims.  

Thank you for bringing up two of my current favorite players. Some of the back and forth in here is getting a bit tense so I will try and lighten it up a bit. The last 3 weeks I have bet Mims as an anytime touchdown scorer. We all know how well that has gone.

Last week I had an active parlay and only needed the Bills to cover 3.5. It was not a tremendous hit but several hundred. Game goes into OT and only 1 play - 1 play can beat me. Thank you Rashad Perriman.

[Barkus]

1 hour ago, chirorob said:

Joe has done an excellent job, other than actually drafting players.

Good trades, let most players go when they wanted too much money, accumulating draft picks.   He just isn't good at, you know, drafting

He has had two drafts, the first one likely had strong influence from Gase. The second one looks pretty good. How about we give him one more draft? ?

[Scott Dierking]

10 minutes ago, Viermoo said:

You can be the beat receiver in the world and no one will ever know unless the QB is great!


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Hi, Larry Fitzgerald (and many others).

[FootballLove]

I remember writing a post about that new, super skinny walk on. He won't survive TC let alone make the team. I really thought he'd get broken in half on his first tackle. So it's good for him to not only make the team but snag a second and now a third contract. Not too bad for a #2 pencil wearing a Jets helmet.

[Green Ghost]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

My opinion is that based upon the evidence of what Joe Douglas has shown us, he never really went hard after Robbie Anderson. 

Douglas likes high character guys that bust it on the practice field and in games. Witness:

-How they have treated Mims based on practice habits and numbskull plays

-How they have been rough on Becton for him to be better.

-The propensity to draft high character, team captain types.

Robbie had too much baggage to be a Douglas guy. Regardless the money. And frankly, RA is not worth it. he is not a game changer.

This post made me laugh, you describe the type of player you think Douglas likes, then you cite names of players players you think are the exact opposite of that who he drafted… and applaud him for doing it.

[UntouchableCrew]

19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

And I'm just responding to the thread too, i.e. your posts in it. 

I'm responding to you because you've expressed an interesting viewpoint I don't agree with.  That we should have kept Anderson (which means by definition overpaying Anderson).

No it doesn't.

19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So what have we lost these past two years without Anderson exactly?  Are we better last year (I'd say no).  Would we be better now (I'd say no).  Does Darnold survive/thrive with Anderson?  Does Wilson not suck this year?

If your argument is simply that we are such a bad franchise that letting Anderson walk didn't make a big difference in the long run, then I agree. It's not a big deal -- no one WR is a huge deal when the HC, QB and overall talent level is poor.

But yeah, I think unquestionably the team is better in 2020 with Anderson. Having watched how that disastrous season played out on offense with Breshad Perriman I would think that was obvious to all Jets fans. It was a huge downgrade to an inferior, injured player.

19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Help me understand why you still feel this strongly now over this move. 

I don't. I think you're projecting my passion on this topic, lol.

19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You really think Anderson vs. Perriman, here, last year, makes any meaningful difference?  

What is meaningful exactly?

Ultimately I think Sam Darnold was a bad QB and would have failed. Adam Gase was a bad head coach and was going to fail. So I suppose there were no personnel moves that were meaningful at all made during that stretch...? Is that your argument? None of these guys were difference makers so who the hell cares?

Because I have zero doubt that the offense is better and more productive in 2020 with Robby than with Periman, and at the time if you operate under the assumption that Joe Douglas was trying to make the team better (which is questionable) making that move was a mistake that the Jets paid for in the short term.

19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We all say it all the time here, what matters is competing for playoffs/titles.  No mediocrity can be tolerated (hence all the anti-Cousins viewpoints, for example).

How does Anderson walking matter in that prism of competing for titles?  

So yeah, this is just the same "we're so unbelievably bad that this minor move didn't really make a meaningful difference in the long run" argument which I agree with. But the thread was titled "revisiting Robbie" so I chimed in and revisited this specific move.

But part of the thing with the Robby move, honestly, is that I am not concerned with "competing for titles." I genuinely just want to see baseline competency return, and letting the only decent playmaker on the team walk for 2 years, 20 million was clearly a mistake.

[JustInFudge]

50 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Odd that the numbers don't indicate that any more. You are, what the numbers say you are. 4.3 be damned

You're right.  You win.  Robby can no longer run fast and straight down a Football field and catch the ball.  Even though it happened in week 1 vs. your very favorite team, he's completely lost that skill in the last 3 months, nothing to do with QB play, he just suddenly, cant do it anymore!  

Solid take!  Good stuff! 

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

No it doesn't.

Sure it does. 

You can't point at the end result and handwavium it saying "we coulda paid that".  That was the result after we let him walk and he tested the market and found it much less than he expected.  From us, before then, he wanted #1 WR dollars or he was walking to.....wait for it....test the market!

Quote

If your argument is simply that we are such a bad franchise that letting Anderson walk didn't make a big difference in the long run, then I agree. It's not a big deal -- no one WR is a huge deal when the HC, QB and overall talent level is poor.

No, letting a legit #1 WR talent walk would have had a meaningful impact.

Letting Anderson walk does and did not.

Quote

But yeah, I think unquestionably the team is better in 2020 with Anderson. Having watched how that disastrous season played out on offense with Breshad Perriman I would think that was obvious to all Jets fans. It was a huge downgrade to an inferior, injured player.

Agree to disagree, we were horrid with Anderson, and horrid after Anderson.  He made no impact at all.

Quote

I don't. I think you're projecting my passion on this topic, lol.

Perhaps.  Personally, I think anyone posting at all in defense of Anderson now is 'passionate" on the topic, all things considered, lol.

Quote

What is meaningful exactly?

Ultimately I think Sam Darnold was a bad QB and would have failed. Adam Gase was a bad head coach and was going to fail. So I suppose there were no personnel moves that were meaningful at all made during that stretch...? Is that your argument? None of these guys were difference makers so who the hell cares?

No, my argument is that Anderson makes no difference, so who cares.

Quote

Because I have zero doubt that the offense is better and more productive in 2020 with Robby than with Periman, and at the time if you operate under the assumption that Joe Douglas was trying to make the team better (which is questionable) making that move was a mistake that the Jets paid for in the short term.

So yeah, this is just the same "we're so unbelievably bad that this minor move didn't really make a meaningful difference in the long run" argument which I agree with. But the thread was titled "revisiting Robbie" so I chimed in and revisited this specific move.

But part of the thing with the Robby move, honestly, is that I am not concerned with "competing for titles." I genuinely just want to see baseline competency return, and letting the only decent playmaker on the team walk for 2 years, 20 million was clearly a mistake.

We agree fully on the bolded, for what it's worth.

We just disagree that Anderlols made any difference whatsoever on that point. 

We were uncompetitive with Anderson in the role he played here.  He's a depth guy, a one-trick JAG in my book. 

Clearly not in yours, given your description as a "playmaker".

So we can agree to disagree.  The number speak for themselves, but we interpret them as we choose.

But I do appreciate the reply mate, thanks.

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

What about last year when he had competent QB play? 

 

We don't talk about that 'round these parts.

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, chirorob said:

Joe has done an excellent job, INCLUDING drafting players at what looks like a 50 percent success rate. 

Good trades, let most players go when they wanted too much money, accumulating draft picks.   He just isn't good at, you know, drafting

fixed.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Sure it does. 

You can't point at the end result as handwavium it saying "we coulda paid that".  That was the result after we let him walk and he tested the market and found it much less than he expected.  Form us, before then, he wanted #1 WR dollars or he was walking to.....wait for it....test the market!

I mean, Joe Douglas could have been involved when he was on the market. It's clear he wasn't interested in re-signing him.

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

No, letting a legit #1 WR talent walk would have had a meaningful impact.

Well yes, letting really good players go makes a bigger impact... But we didn't have any of those.

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Agree to disagree, we were horrid with Anderson, and horrid after Anderson.  He made no impact at all.

I would argue there was a clear decline in Darnold's play in 2020 vs. 2019, but these are semantics. We can agree to disagree.

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Perhaps.  Personally, I think anyone posting at all in defense of Anderson now is 'passionate" on the topic, all things considered, lol.

Okay, by that definition you too must be passionate about this issue seeing as you see the need to fight it out with the people who were pro-Anderson.

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

No, my argument is that Anderson makes no difference, so who cares.

We agree fully on the bolded, for what it's worth.

We just disagree that Anderlols made any difference whatsoever on that point. 

We were uncompetitive with Anderson in the role he played here.  He's a depth guy, a one-trick JAG in my book. 

Clearly not in yours, given your description as a "playmaker".

So we can agree to disagree.  The number speak for themselves, but we interpret them as we choose.

But I do appreciate the reply mate, thanks.

Yep, agree to disagree. Obviously at its core the real difference of opinion centers around "how good do you think Robby Anderson was" which is clearly something we're far apart on.

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

You're right.  You win.  Robby can no longer run fast and straight down a Football field and catch the ball.  Even though it happened in week 1 vs. your very favorite team, he's completely lost that skill in the last 3 months, nothing to do with QB play, he just suddenly, cant do it anymore!  

Solid take!  Good stuff! 

Jif, first let me say this. You are a great poster here, and I respect your opinions and you have a lot of football knowledge. I will start with that premise,  because I believe it, and do not want to get scolded.

All I was stating here was my opinion. It does not make it right, wrong or indifferent. This is football and neither of us are geniuses in that regard, as much as we would like to believe.

That said, sometimes you treat this site as more than that. For you it seems to be personal. Sometimes you do not want to value the others "opinion", and you come across with a "I am taking my ball and going home" stance. Not sure how that leads to productive conversation. 

Not meaning to eviscerate you here and maybe I am a little sensitive. So go ahead and skewer me. 

 

[Hex]

Robby Anderson thought he was done with the Jets, and Darnold, and everything

But no

Anderson will be a Jet forever, no matter how hard he tries to run

This thread is proof

He's doomed

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

So this is what you get when he gets the contract he was looking for. Who would have thunk?

81 targets

36 receptions

372 yards

4TDs

10.3 Y/R

Before you say, yeah, but Sam Darnold. His supposed hay day years were with Darnold also.

Before I read all the replies, I'm sure at least one person's brought up that his heyday years were without Darnold. They were with McCown and Bridgewater (two weak-armed QBs at that); the Darnold years in between were his meh ones.

That said, he's having an atrocious seasons independent of the QB.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Crowder had to restructure down to $9.75m average ($5m this year).

Robbie has a $14.75m annual contract for 3 years.

I am pretty sure that Anderson signed for 2/$20M in 2020.  Crowder signed for 3/$28.5M a year earlier.  Anderson restructured this offseason for another 2/$30M to give them some cap relief.  I bet if they hard-balled him the way we did to Crowder he'd have done pretty well on the open market.. 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Before I read all the replies, I'm sure at least one person's brought up that his heyday years were without Darnold. They were with McCown and Bridgewater (two weak-armed QBs at that); the Darnold years in between were his meh ones.

That said, he's having an atrocious seasons independent of the QB.

Yes, that is all fine and good, and I was incorrect there.

What this really boils down to, is Robbie worth the money he is being paid, and would the Jets have been better off with that saddle? 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

My opinion is that based upon the evidence of what Joe Douglas has shown us, he never really went hard after Robbie Anderson. 

Douglas likes high character guys that bust it on the practice field and in games. Witness:

-How they have treated Mims based on practice habits and numbskull plays

-How they have been rough on Becton for him to be better.

-The propensity to draft high character, team captain types.

Robbie had too much baggage to be a Douglas guy. Regardless the money. And frankly, RA is not worth it. he is not a game changer.

He signed Breshad Perriman, who'd had a career of not living up to his talent level. Is that a high character, Douglas guy?

Also it's a tough argument to make in this sequence: with two of his highest picks (and his first 2 picks outright) he drafted Mims and Becton; also he has a propensity for drafting high-character team captain types.

Hate to say it, but even with RA's terrible 2021 season the team would have been better off giving him that contract than what they did instead: signed Breshad Perriman and then signed Corey Davis (who has one more guaranteed season at 30% more than RA's original Carolina contract). He'd be out from under it after this season instead of being locked in to Davis for 2022. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Yes, that is all fine and good, and I was incorrect there.

What this really boils down to, is Robbie worth the money he is being paid, and would the Jets have been better off with that saddle? 

Actually yes, the Jets would have been better off; see the post above.

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He signed Breshad Perriman, who'd had a career of not living up to his talent level. Is that a high character, Douglas guy?

Also it's a tough argument to make in this sequence: with two of his highest picks (and his first 2 picks outright) he drafted Mims and Becton; also he has a propensity for drafting high-character team captain types.

Hate to say it, but even with RA's terrible 2021 season the team would have been better off giving him that contract than what they did instead: signed Breshad Perriman and then signed Corey Davis (who has one more guaranteed season at 30% more than RA's original Carolina contract). He'd be out from under it after this season instead of being locked in to Davis for 2022. 

Agree to disageree.