Every Throw From Zach Wilson - Week 15 vs Dolphins

[DetroitRed]

I think Lafleur is doing a really good job.  Get the man a few more players 

[rtnelson]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yep. He needs to be built from the ground up. I hope JD brings in an experienced, young QB to push him this off season. When he was challenged for the starting role at BYU, he responded in a huge, positive way. I think his most ardent supporters sell him short. He's not as fragile and psychosocially vulnerable as they think. He can handle a little scare from below.

Absolutely.  I was very disappointed when they didn't pick up Minshew when the Eagles snagged him for a 6th.  From what I know of him he seems like someone who would bring some positive energy into the QB room, along with some starting experience to back it up.  All in all, getting someone in the room that expects to start and will fight tooth and nail for the job is ideal.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

Absolutely.  I was very disappointed when they didn't pick up Minshew when the Eagles snagged him for a 6th.  From what I know of him he seems like someone who would bring some positive energy into the QB room, along with some starting experience to back it up.  All in all, getting someone in the room that expects to start and will fight tooth and nail for the job is ideal.

My brother from another mother, been banging the Minshew drum for over a year as soon as it became clear Jags were gonna move on. Trubisky another I had on my list.

[doitny]

i think we can take some good stuff from this game. 

not one bouncing ball. not one pass that his receiver had to twist his body to catch. yeah he had 2-3 easy passes he missed, but everyone does.

which is obvious is that Miami changed something at the half because Zach was getting blitzed but got it off quick. they took something away from him and Zach couldnt see it fast enough. plus he has to read the blitz better. he has to see that guy on the edge and know he has no blocker for him, maybe call an audible. i am sure he will get better the more he see this stuff. 

i was wrong for wanting him to sit vs Miami the 1st time. this was an important thing to play through. to see a team blitz as much as they do. these were important reps to learn from. 

[doitny]

55 minutes ago, jgb said:

Totally agree. I want him to get as many reps as possible. If they hadn't hid him against Miami a couple weeks ago, good chance he would've won this game.

im glad you pointed that out. 

he will not play a team twice this year. and except for that one qt against NE which was pretty good. 6-10, 51 yds no bad throws we will not see if he learned anything after Belichick schooled him. today could have been the day we seen if he figured out what Miami wants to do to him.

fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

[bla bla bla]

2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Need the endzone view

Usually doesn't come out til Tuesday or so

[rtnelson]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

My brother from another mother, been banging the Minshew drum for over a year as soon as it became clear Jags were gonna move on. Trubisky another I had on my list.

Trubisky is a FA this offseason.  Although I think a lot of teams will see his value as a backup with experience and he may not be as cheap as we'd like.  He's only 27.

[ZachEY]

Didn’t he complete a total of 4 passes in the second half?  Is there any room whatsoever for discussion here?

[Peace Frog]

12 minutes ago, doitny said:

i think we can take some good stuff from this game. 

not one bouncing ball. not one pass that his receiver had to twist his body to catch. yeah he had 2-3 easy passes he missed, but everyone does.

which is obvious is that Miami changed something at the half because Zach was getting blitzed but got it off quick. they took something away from him and Zach couldnt see it fast enough. plus he has to read the blitz better. he has to see that guy on the edge and know he has no blocker for him, maybe call an audible. i am sure he will get better the more he see this stuff. 

i was wrong for wanting him to sit vs Miami the 1st time. this was an important thing to play through. to see a team blitz as much as they do. these were important reps to learn from. 

This is a very fair take. 

Look, no one is saying Zach is great, that’s hyperbole by the leader of the AZM. 

He just needs to improve week to week. 

He did that today. 

[rtnelson]

Just now, ZachEY said:

Didn’t he complete a total of 4 passes in the second half?  Is there any room whatsoever for discussion here?

Nope, everyone is burning ZW effigies as we speak.

[jgb]

11 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

Trubisky is a FA this offseason.  Although I think a lot of teams will see his value as a backup with experience and he may not be as cheap as we'd like.  He's only 27.

Sadly, I think ship sailed on Tru. In a QB starved league, could see him walking into a starting spot as a bridge QB with upside. The Steelers or Denver, perhaps.

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

Didn’t he complete a total of 4 passes in the second half?  Is there any room whatsoever for discussion here?

Only if you want to point out how awesome those 4 completions were

[bla bla bla]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Under the circumstances a very solid performance from Wilson.

Like to have those two throws late in the game back (swing pass high and over Mims head) But otherwise..

He was pretty accurate with the ball, didn't force anything, controlled the tempo of the offense nicely and made mostly good decision.

My favorite part of today was Zach recognizing the Phins were trying to sub players out so he rushed the team to the line to get the penalty and the first down.

[jetswinbaby!]

3 hours ago, undertow said:

He was accurate and poised in the first half but as soon as there was pressure he fell apart.  He gets rattled very easily.  Probably would have been a good idea to sit him till there's a better cast around him...too late for that now.

I'm looking forward to Wilson playing 3 good quarters soon...

[Hal N of Provo]

1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

My favorite part of today was Zach recognizing the Phins were trying to sub players out so he rushed the team to the line to get the penalty and the first down.

He also quickly got guys moved around presnap on a play early.   He looked confident running the offense today. 

[SteveElement]

Is it just me or does the ball just not coming off his hand well? 

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

My favorite part of today was Zach recognizing the Phins were trying to sub players out so he rushed the team to the line to get the penalty and the first down.

yes, it's little things like that that are important.  Really fun to see.  He's gaining control of the offense.

Look, he still has a long way to go - but he showed progress again today.  

 

[Larz]

It’s hard to say much not seeing the game and having a feel for the flow and the run game, but just from that it’s kind of a small step forward for me 

enough with the trick plays please. Just roll the kid out and move the pocket 

hard to really say but didn’t really see him going through progressions much

No bounce passes or picks, correct?

might be a decent learning experience for him. 
 

flacco put 17 on them as well , correct?  That defense has been holding teams to under 17 recently? Like last 5 games?

he is either still holding the ball too long or there needs to be more guy’s winning for him quickly, it’s probably a combination of both. 
 

overall I’d say slightly encouraging 

[Copernicus]

14 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

yes, it's little things like that that are important.  Really fun to see.  He's gaining control of the offense.

Look, he still has a long way to go - but he showed progress again today.  

 

Looksed so much more confident right out the gate. Made all the easy throws, stayed within the offense, and when he went off script he made some amazing plays out of nothing. He carried this depleated offensive team down starting Wr and OLmen in the first half. Also knew when to throw the ball away. Future is bright

[ryu79]

4 hours ago, doitny said:

Which is obvious is that Miami changed something at the half because Zach was getting blitzed but got it off quick. they took something away from him and Zach couldnt see it fast enough. plus he has to read the blitz better. he has to see that guy on the edge and know he has no blocker for him, maybe call an audible. i am sure he will get better the more he see this stuff.  

Zach spoke to this in the post game. The fins played a lot of zone in the 1H and the game plan was designed for that. In the second half they ramped pressure and went man to man in coverage taking advantage of their corners... And we couldn't get people open or give Zach any time. 

Wish we would have gone to the TE more in the 2H adjusting for that...

[JohnnyLV]

Zach is really good at attacking the boundaries and throwing the slant? Did we try either of those? He is good at back shoulder at the edges. Did we try that. He was very effecting at RPO. Did we try that. In college he was weaker at swing passes and seam routes. That is 90% of what LaFleur calls for Zach. LaFleur and Saleh want to fit Zach in their box. He is not a great fit. He has been bad. His confidence is low and I am not so sure the knee is not impacting him still. But the way they are handling Zach is just not a good plan.

To make matters worse, when was the last time we heard "great catch" in relation to our receivers? Our receivers pretty much never make the difficult catch or even the slightly hard catch. And drops. Lots of drops.

Honestly I am not sure he is in a position to not only win but even learn. I would just shut him down until next season and really try to have a good offseason and training camp for him.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

7 hours ago, doitny said:

i think we can take some good stuff from this game. 

not one bouncing ball. not one pass that his receiver had to twist his body to catch. yeah he had 2-3 easy passes he missed, but everyone does.

which is obvious is that Miami changed something at the half because Zach was getting blitzed but got it off quick. they took something away from him and Zach couldnt see it fast enough. plus he has to read the blitz better. he has to see that guy on the edge and know he has no blocker for him, maybe call an audible. i am sure he will get better the more he see this stuff. 

i was wrong for wanting him to sit vs Miami the 1st time. this was an important thing to play through. to see a team blitz as much as they do. these were important reps to learn from. 

He’s a very intelligent kid with a quick mind, I watched him go through an analysis of tape from a BYU game,  along with all the physical attributes/arm talent he was drafted for, sidenote, that was some Roger Staubach style he used on that one play today averting a sack multiple times and turning the play positive.  I’m not happy with all the bad play I’ve seen from him this year, and so many of these 1st Rders bust, yet I think it’s not wise to count him out this early....his ceiling is still very high.

Here is evidence of some baby steps...

 

[68JET11]

Watched that clip, because I wasn't able to see the game yesterday. I think that's the best he's looked all season. The first half was nice, and not so much in the second half. The OL completely failed. I do see one thing of concern, and I'd like someone to sit him down and go over that with him. He goes backwards way to often when the line breaks down...

One post was talking about watching #60, which proves my point that we need a true center on this team in the worst way. Someone who knows how to call line protections to the others on the line. McGovern while here, is not really here and those saying he's playing better, is because of DVT, being at RG and not GVR. If we improve our line play, maybe the kid will be able to step up in the pocket like everyone says he needs to do more often.

[T0mShane]

9 hours ago, jetswinbaby! said:

I'm looking forward to Wilson playing 3 good quarters soon...

He’s on pace to do so, because he’s shown he can play marginal football for a quarter at a time and there are three games left.

[FidelioJet]

4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Zach is really good at attacking the boundaries and throwing the slant? Did we try either of those? He is good at back shoulder at the edges. Did we try that. He was very effecting at RPO. Did we try that. In college he was weaker at swing passes and seam routes. That is 90% of what LaFleur calls for Zach. LaFleur and Saleh want to fit Zach in their box. He is not a great fit. He has been bad. His confidence is low and I am not so sure the knee is not impacting him still. But the way they are handling Zach is just not a good plan.

To make matters worse, when was the last time we heard "great catch" in relation to our receivers? Our receivers pretty much never make the difficult catch or even the slightly hard catch. And drops. Lots of drops.

Honestly I am not sure he is in a position to not only win but even learn. I would just shut him down until next season and really try to have a good offseason and training camp for him.

I agree with much of this, but don't think he should sit.  

I know a lot of people here don't want to hear it but he is actually making progress.  2 steps forward, 1 step back - it's always what should have been expected.  We don't see it as much as the coaches do.  He needs in game reps.  Even with this sh*tty roster.  It's helping him, he's learning.

Eagles game - when he had his LT and Moore - he pushed the ball downfield when he had someone that can win 1 on 1.  Was still playing tight in the short game and missed too many short ones - but was, IMO, his best game as a pro.

Saints - was bad, all around...but did y'all see the GOAT last night against the Saints D.  Brady, with all his weapons, looked worse than Zach did.

Miami - Started hitting the short stuff, with quality accuracy.  Moved the ball and put up points - with the most injured offense in the NFL. Made a couple of splash plays - Second half he had no chance - Miami switch to man coverage and blitzed the heck out of him.  Reality is, second half he did what folks around here asked him to do. Not play hero ball, not force the ball into double coverage or covered guys (what he did yesterday was exactly the stupid sh*t Darnold never got over) Zach forced the ball early in the year - he's not anymore, serious progress.  

Jets were forced to keep TE's in and a RB to help block - 3 WR's mostly double teamed - with 3rd and 4th string WR's....He held the ball for longer periods of time because no one was open - I'm a little unsure of what people wanted him to do. 

He's getting better - Unfortunately you can't simulate the speed of the game in practice.  He needs reps.

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree with much of this, but don't think he should sit.  

I know a lot of people here don't want to hear it but he is actually making progress.  2 steps forward, 1 step back - it's always what should have been expected.  We don't see it as much as the coaches do.  He needs in game reps.  Even with this sh*tty roster.  It's helping him, he's learning.

Eagles game - when he had his LT and Moore - he pushed the ball downfield when he had someone that can win 1 on 1.  Was still playing tight in the short game and missed too many short ones - but was, IMO, his best game as a pro.

Saints - was bad, all around...but did y'all see the GOAT last night against the Saints D.  Brady, with all his weapons, looked worse than Zach did.

Miami - Started hitting the short stuff, with quality accuracy.  Moved the ball and put up points - with the most injured offense in the NFL. Made a couple of splash plays - Second half he had no chance - Miami switch to man coverage and blitzed the heck out of him.  Reality is, second half he did what folks around here asked him to do. Not play hero ball, not force the ball into double coverage or covered guys (what he did yesterday was exactly the stupid sh*t Darnold never got over) Zach forced the ball early in the year - he's not anymore, serious progress.  

Jets were forced to keep TE's in and a RB to help block - 3 WR's mostly double teamed - with 3rd and 4th string WR's....He held the ball for longer periods of time because no one was open - I'm a little unsure of what people wanted him to do. 

He's getting better -  but unfortunately you can't simulate the speed and violence of the game in practice.  He needs reps.

 

[Hael]

Rewatching some of this. . There are at least 3 plays that probably should have been interceptions.  Also a number of throws which he should have gunned, but instead took pace off, and that ended up causing a problem for the wr.  Very little (if any) progressions...

His best plays are also the ones that I think are most problematic.  Where he jukes one or two defenders, gets free and makes some fun plays.

Yea ok!  But the level of danger he's putting himself when he does that is extreme.  He's going to get crushed playing that way over the long haul, as its not consistent.  Its not like he's Lamar Jackson who can evade every single DE in the league in his sleep.  These are like razor margins most of the time..

[Augustiniak]

3 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

He’s a very intelligent kid with a quick mind, I watched him go through an analysis of tape from a BYU game,  along with all the physical attributes/arm talent he was drafted for, sidenote, that was some Roger Staubach style he used on that one play today averting a sack multiple times and turning the play positive.  I’m not happy with all the bad play I’ve seen from him this year, and so many of these 1st Rders bust, yet I think it’s not wise to count him out this early....his ceiling is still very high.

Here is evidence of some baby steps...

 

This has to be a big part of Wilson’s mindset now.  He’s just not taking the risks that he took before his injury.  Many people on this board are dissecting every single throw, and any imperfections is tantamount proof that he sucks.  Wilson is just trying to play an efficient game, complete the shorter throws and not lose the game.  And with that surrounding cast, that’s all you can really do anyway.  The wrs suck without moore.  Bad drops from crowder and cole, these are drive killers.  Wilson’s knee seems good enough to avoid some pressure and he’s throwing it away better too.  But there’s just no overcoming the pressure when it’s so quick.  I doubt Flacco or white would have fared much better.  

Even though the defense can’t stop a nosebleed and the offense has no wr weapons, it was fun for a while to see the jets competitive, and a big part of that was wilson managing the game correctly.  Unfortunately i think the defense is so pitiful that douglas will be tempted, and justified, in going defense 2x in the first round, and in truth the team needs it.  But i want one of those top wrs.  Wilson will not improve throwing to crowder/cole/Montgomery/Jeff smith.  

[Biggs]

10 hours ago, rtnelson said:

Trubisky is a FA this offseason.  Although I think a lot of teams will see his value as a backup with experience and he may not be as cheap as we'd like.  He's only 27.

Plus he would be the best starting QB the Jets have fielded since Namath. 

[GangGreened]

12 hours ago, jgb said:

He did turn the ball over.

Missed the game and apparently the fumble in the highlights 

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

No idea what QB play you normally watch but overthrowing a leaping 6'3" receiver is not "football".  That's a bad pass.  If that was Moore or Crowder it would have sailed over their heads for an int.

Also ended the game with a bad pass to Cole.  Had it been on target, Cole may have gone out passed or at the 1st down marker.

Its on his hands.  I said there were two overthrows.  Just the way it was described as balls flying over the heads of receivers.  And it wasnt Moore, sometimes, especially with a tall 6' 3" receiver you try and throw it high where no one else can get it.  

Coles F'd up that play, he needed to be behind the 1st down marker, not two years in front of it.  Cole screwed that play up. 

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, jgb said:

Only if you want to point out how awesome those 4 completions were

While not pointing out that the offense on a whole ran few plays in the 2nd what is the point of pointing this out? 

 

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, jetswinbaby! said:

I'm looking forward to Wilson playing 3 good quarters soon...

Id like to see the team playing 3 good quarters soon.  

You know not blaming ZW for his inability to hit passes from his ass or to WRs who absolutely no separation or consistently catch passes that hit their hands.

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree with much of this, but don't think he should sit.  

I know a lot of people here don't want to hear it but he is actually making progress.  2 steps forward, 1 step back - it's always what should have been expected.  We don't see it as much as the coaches do.  He needs in game reps.  Even with this sh*tty roster.  It's helping him, he's learning.

Eagles game - when he had his LT and Moore - he pushed the ball downfield when he had someone that can win 1 on 1.  Was still playing tight in the short game and missed too many short ones - but was, IMO, his best game as a pro.

Saints - was bad, all around...but did y'all see the GOAT last night against the Saints D.  Brady, with all his weapons, looked worse than Zach did.

Miami - Started hitting the short stuff, with quality accuracy.  Moved the ball and put up points - with the most injured offense in the NFL. Made a couple of splash plays - Second half he had no chance - Miami switch to man coverage and blitzed the heck out of him.  Reality is, second half he did what folks around here asked him to do. Not play hero ball, not force the ball into double coverage or covered guys (what he did yesterday was exactly the stupid sh*t Darnold never got over) Zach forced the ball early in the year - he's not anymore, serious progress.  

Jets were forced to keep TE's in and a RB to help block - 3 WR's mostly double teamed - with 3rd and 4th string WR's....He held the ball for longer periods of time because no one was open - I'm a little unsure of what people wanted him to do. 

He's getting better - Unfortunately you can't simulate the speed of the game in practice.  He needs reps.

I mentioned it earlier too, Zach rushing the team to the line to catch the defense with 12 men was nice to see. I think he's starting to feel comfortable, just gotta get him some bodies.

1) Michael Gallup + TE of choice in FA

2) Hutch or Thib

3) Hamilton/Linderbaum

Then go BPA at LB, S, OL, WR, & TE in draft

[bla bla bla]

39 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

Missed the game and apparently the fumble in the highlights 

Yea we didn't get a great angle of it live  tried my best to add in the little bit we did see but it was McDermott getting smoked that caused it.